Hello again,
I talked to my daughter last night again. This is how the conversation went:
Me: How was your week?
D: Fine.
Me: What did you do this week?
D: Lot's of stuff.
Me: What kind's of stuff?
D: I dont want to tell you because it's really none of your business.
Me: That's kind of rude. You are my daughter, what you do is my business.
D: I dont feel like talking to you right now.
Me: Well we will just talk for a few minutes and I will let you go. So have you seen any good movies lately?
D: No.
Me: Have you seen previews for that Disney movie Robots that's coming out?
D: Yes.
Me: Would you like to go see it when you get her for Spring break?
D: Cant I just stay here this time? They are going to do....
Me: No. I dont know why we have to go through this everytime you are getting ready to come here. I am sorry if they are doing something while you are not home, but you always have fun when you are here. We dont need to discuss it anymore. You are coming here.
D: Can I tell you something?
Me: Sure.
D: When I tell you stuff that is true like when you blame stuff on mommy(SM) sometimes I mean all the time and it's not her...Can you not yell at me cause thats starting to make me do stuff and not think and stuff.
Me: I dont blame stuff on your SM all the time and I didnt yell at you when you asked me about it. Adult issues are not your concern. We are not going to talk about this right now.
D: Arent you going to ask me about that weekend that I lied to you about having to go because a movie was about to start, and the movie wasnt even on yet?
Me: No. If you are going to lie to me then you will have to deal with that because you know that lieing is wrong.
I tried to change the subject and ask about school but she went to complete silent treatment. I asked her why she was acting that way.
D: Cause I asked you something and you said that we were not going to talk about that right now.
Me: So that means that you are going to ignore me?
D: Yes. I have been taking it out on the wrong people and it's your fault because I've tried to talk to you about it and you say no.
I asked her to speak to her father and of course he wasnt home. I asked to talk to SM (only to find out when he would be home) she was of course unavailable too.
Me: Fine. I will let you go now. I want you to know that no matter what you say or do, I will always love you. I hope you have a wonderful Valentine's day. I love you. Good-bye.
D: Bye.
I get so mad in this situation, I am at a loss of what to say sometimes. She is allowed to accuse me, disrespect me and be hurtful because it is encouraged. Then I get put on the spot with things that she shouldnt be concerned with that obviously someone is putting in her head. How am I supposed to pretend that it's all sunshine and butterflies?
Yes I do think stepmom is responsible for 95% of the stuff that has happened because ex is just a stupid puppet on a string. But I dont sit there and say I think your stepmom this and that. I try to never discuss her.
Then I get an email from SM because Superbowl Sunday they werent home for my call. Sorry we missed your call we had engagements. Like that is supposed to make it ok. I wasnt home either, I knew I wouldnt be for like a week in advance. I took a cell phone. I am sure they knew of these plans ahead of time. Didnt bother to give me notice they just waste my time to call and be pissed when no one is home to answer. Oh yeah they got rid of their answering machine too so I cant even garantee that she knows I attempted. Phone calls are the same day and time everyweek. Another way to show my daughter that it's ok to blow mom off. NO EXCUSE.
WHAT AM I GOING TO DO!?!?!?!?!?! THIS IS KILLING ME INSIDE!!!!! I know she is hurting but it's not appropriate for me to talk to her about the things she is accusing me of.
Besides PAS, has anyone heard of a parent regaining custody simply because the other parent doesnt encourage/discourages a meaningful relationship with the NCP?
you know I was just reading something on this it's in Michigan stuff but I'll find the link and post it.
That is sooooo wrong and something I deal with all the time, I am supposing it'll only get worse instead of better as she gets older too.
I'm sorry that you and your dd have to go through this. It's unfair to both of you.
here's the link it's an intresting read there is alot of info in there ;)
http://courts.michigan.gov/scao/resources/publications/manuals/focb/cp_custodyfactors.pdf
Wow.. I'm sorry that you have to undergo that type of conversation. I know with my DD we have rocky conversations sometimes on the phone.
How old is your daughter?
"Besides PAS, has anyone heard of a parent regaining custody simply because the other parent doesnt encourage/discourages a meaningful relationship with the NCP?"
---From the research that I have been compiling in regards to PAS...it's a tough road to travel down. It will take years of psychological evaluation and such.
---As far as the other parent not encouraging your daughter...use the Children's Bill of Rights against them. Most CO's have phrases in them stating that child(ren) have the right to love both parents etc...
Keep documentation, keep logging when they are not available for calls and such... file contempt charges and keep your head raised high.
Butterfly--
You are living MY life! I have calls exactly like this with my two kids all the time. I hate it and I am struggling to maintian a relationship with them. MY kids are DS15 and DD 12. DD is worse and when I see them out it is obvious that she is doing this stuf in response to her SM. My ex is also a puppet on a string and SM is the puppeteer.
No one beleives this is aleination but in my heart I know that it is. Just because my kids have a good time when they are here does not mean they aren't being alaienated while with dad which is 95% of the time. I am worried for them.
I have undergone two custody evals and lost both times. Ex and SM can convince evaluators that I am nuts and they win every time!
I am reading Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak. He gives good advice about how to deal with specific things but everything in his book seems to apply to my situation!
Feel free to eamil me sometimes. I thin if we share stories and solutions and problems we will become stronger and ultimately find a way to beat this without loosing our kids.
I was at the book store today and came across a book and I started to laugh out loud. It was called "50/50 parenting with a jerk", it was in the special needs/education section of Barnes and Noble.
I read some of it and it had alot of good pointers on how to combat hitting your head against a brick wall, but instead how to talk with the other parent or the child about how you think things are going. This might be a book you could use to help talk with your daughter. If not that one there were several other ones that were equally interesting.
I read just read "how to deal with a difficult person" a couple months ago, and man did that help me keep my PBFH meter on low. They also give you useful techniques on how to "deal" with those difficult people in our lives.
I how this helps. I am way out of my league with girls, we have 4 boys!
Good luck and keep documenting everything!! :)
I appreciate your help.
The Children's Bill of Rights is great. Do you think I should send a copy to my ex and see what he says? I have to agree with you on the other comment from what I have found out so far. I have talked to an attorney and she basically said that we can go down the road of trying to fight for custody but it's really hard to get it switched back. Unless he deliberately blows off the CO. Which he does have 2 strikes for denying me visitation, the court already slapped his hand and ordered make up time. I could get him right now for not having insurance on our child, but I'll wait. I know him and it's just a matter of time before he screws up again. Have you heard of getting a court order for putting our child in couseling? I just got a call from my daughter's principal today saying she got in trouble in class and she was sending me a report about it. She wouldnt really go into detail about it but mentioned that it may be wise for my daughter to see the school counselor. My ex just refuses. School hasnt been a problem until recently.
I'm sorry to hear you are in the same boat. What do they do in the evals? I am scared that if I go through it too and shell out the money that I dont have the same will happen to me. My ex's wife is pretty good at acting.
What's really fun is when we have to go to court and she's not allowed to be in the conversation with mediation. He squirms and has no idea how to answer questions because she is the instigator of the problems and has no idea what is going on. He looks like a real dumb a$$. Getting custody for him was only to avoid paying child support to me. He would have had to pay ALOT.
Let me know how that book helps. I would definately love to keep in touch. I wish I had more time to do this. I work and go to school full time so I try to check the boards in between. Hang in there and I'll try too.
That's great advice. I appreciate it. I have never thought to go to a book store and check out what books are out there. I get so obsessed with trying to read laws and find references online. Thanks for the advice. I will definately check it out. Good luck to you also.
Hello again,
I talked to my daughter last night again. This is how the conversation went:
Me: How was your week?
D: Fine.
Me: What did you do this week?
D: Lot's of stuff.
Me: What kind's of stuff?
D: I dont want to tell you because it's really none of your business.
Me: That's kind of rude. You are my daughter, what you do is my business.
D: I dont feel like talking to you right now.
Me: Well we will just talk for a few minutes and I will let you go. So have you seen any good movies lately?
D: No.
Me: Have you seen previews for that Disney movie Robots that's coming out?
D: Yes.
Me: Would you like to go see it when you get her for Spring break?
D: Cant I just stay here this time? They are going to do....
Me: No. I dont know why we have to go through this everytime you are getting ready to come here. I am sorry if they are doing something while you are not home, but you always have fun when you are here. We dont need to discuss it anymore. You are coming here.
D: Can I tell you something?
Me: Sure.
D: When I tell you stuff that is true like when you blame stuff on mommy(SM) sometimes I mean all the time and it's not her...Can you not yell at me cause thats starting to make me do stuff and not think and stuff.
Me: I dont blame stuff on your SM all the time and I didnt yell at you when you asked me about it. Adult issues are not your concern. We are not going to talk about this right now.
D: Arent you going to ask me about that weekend that I lied to you about having to go because a movie was about to start, and the movie wasnt even on yet?
Me: No. If you are going to lie to me then you will have to deal with that because you know that lieing is wrong.
I tried to change the subject and ask about school but she went to complete silent treatment. I asked her why she was acting that way.
D: Cause I asked you something and you said that we were not going to talk about that right now.
Me: So that means that you are going to ignore me?
D: Yes. I have been taking it out on the wrong people and it's your fault because I've tried to talk to you about it and you say no.
I asked her to speak to her father and of course he wasnt home. I asked to talk to SM (only to find out when he would be home) she was of course unavailable too.
Me: Fine. I will let you go now. I want you to know that no matter what you say or do, I will always love you. I hope you have a wonderful Valentine's day. I love you. Good-bye.
D: Bye.
I get so mad in this situation, I am at a loss of what to say sometimes. She is allowed to accuse me, disrespect me and be hurtful because it is encouraged. Then I get put on the spot with things that she shouldnt be concerned with that obviously someone is putting in her head. How am I supposed to pretend that it's all sunshine and butterflies?
Yes I do think stepmom is responsible for 95% of the stuff that has happened because ex is just a stupid puppet on a string. But I dont sit there and say I think your stepmom this and that. I try to never discuss her.
Then I get an email from SM because Superbowl Sunday they werent home for my call. Sorry we missed your call we had engagements. Like that is supposed to make it ok. I wasnt home either, I knew I wouldnt be for like a week in advance. I took a cell phone. I am sure they knew of these plans ahead of time. Didnt bother to give me notice they just waste my time to call and be pissed when no one is home to answer. Oh yeah they got rid of their answering machine too so I cant even garantee that she knows I attempted. Phone calls are the same day and time everyweek. Another way to show my daughter that it's ok to blow mom off. NO EXCUSE.
WHAT AM I GOING TO DO!?!?!?!?!?! THIS IS KILLING ME INSIDE!!!!! I know she is hurting but it's not appropriate for me to talk to her about the things she is accusing me of.
Besides PAS, has anyone heard of a parent regaining custody simply because the other parent doesnt encourage/discourages a meaningful relationship with the NCP?
you know I was just reading something on this it's in Michigan stuff but I'll find the link and post it.
That is sooooo wrong and something I deal with all the time, I am supposing it'll only get worse instead of better as she gets older too.
I'm sorry that you and your dd have to go through this. It's unfair to both of you.
here's the link it's an intresting read there is alot of info in there ;)
http://courts.michigan.gov/scao/resources/publications/manuals/focb/cp_custodyfactors.pdf
Wow.. I'm sorry that you have to undergo that type of conversation. I know with my DD we have rocky conversations sometimes on the phone.
How old is your daughter?
"Besides PAS, has anyone heard of a parent regaining custody simply because the other parent doesnt encourage/discourages a meaningful relationship with the NCP?"
---From the research that I have been compiling in regards to PAS...it's a tough road to travel down. It will take years of psychological evaluation and such.
---As far as the other parent not encouraging your daughter...use the Children's Bill of Rights against them. Most CO's have phrases in them stating that child(ren) have the right to love both parents etc...
Keep documentation, keep logging when they are not available for calls and such... file contempt charges and keep your head raised high.
Butterfly--
You are living MY life! I have calls exactly like this with my two kids all the time. I hate it and I am struggling to maintian a relationship with them. MY kids are DS15 and DD 12. DD is worse and when I see them out it is obvious that she is doing this stuf in response to her SM. My ex is also a puppet on a string and SM is the puppeteer.
No one beleives this is aleination but in my heart I know that it is. Just because my kids have a good time when they are here does not mean they aren't being alaienated while with dad which is 95% of the time. I am worried for them.
I have undergone two custody evals and lost both times. Ex and SM can convince evaluators that I am nuts and they win every time!
I am reading Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak. He gives good advice about how to deal with specific things but everything in his book seems to apply to my situation!
Feel free to eamil me sometimes. I thin if we share stories and solutions and problems we will become stronger and ultimately find a way to beat this without loosing our kids.
I was at the book store today and came across a book and I started to laugh out loud. It was called "50/50 parenting with a jerk", it was in the special needs/education section of Barnes and Noble.
I read some of it and it had alot of good pointers on how to combat hitting your head against a brick wall, but instead how to talk with the other parent or the child about how you think things are going. This might be a book you could use to help talk with your daughter. If not that one there were several other ones that were equally interesting.
I read just read "how to deal with a difficult person" a couple months ago, and man did that help me keep my PBFH meter on low. They also give you useful techniques on how to "deal" with those difficult people in our lives.
I how this helps. I am way out of my league with girls, we have 4 boys!
Good luck and keep documenting everything!! :)
I appreciate your help.
The Children's Bill of Rights is great. Do you think I should send a copy to my ex and see what he says? I have to agree with you on the other comment from what I have found out so far. I have talked to an attorney and she basically said that we can go down the road of trying to fight for custody but it's really hard to get it switched back. Unless he deliberately blows off the CO. Which he does have 2 strikes for denying me visitation, the court already slapped his hand and ordered make up time. I could get him right now for not having insurance on our child, but I'll wait. I know him and it's just a matter of time before he screws up again. Have you heard of getting a court order for putting our child in couseling? I just got a call from my daughter's principal today saying she got in trouble in class and she was sending me a report about it. She wouldnt really go into detail about it but mentioned that it may be wise for my daughter to see the school counselor. My ex just refuses. School hasnt been a problem until recently.
I'm sorry to hear you are in the same boat. What do they do in the evals? I am scared that if I go through it too and shell out the money that I dont have the same will happen to me. My ex's wife is pretty good at acting.
What's really fun is when we have to go to court and she's not allowed to be in the conversation with mediation. He squirms and has no idea how to answer questions because she is the instigator of the problems and has no idea what is going on. He looks like a real dumb a$$. Getting custody for him was only to avoid paying child support to me. He would have had to pay ALOT.
Let me know how that book helps. I would definately love to keep in touch. I wish I had more time to do this. I work and go to school full time so I try to check the boards in between. Hang in there and I'll try too.
That's great advice. I appreciate it. I have never thought to go to a book store and check out what books are out there. I get so obsessed with trying to read laws and find references online. Thanks for the advice. I will definately check it out. Good luck to you also.
At 9, your DD knows way too much about the situation. Sounds as though she's being led down the path by her BF and SM and they're coaching her, blaming you for everything. It also made my skin crawl to see she call SM mommy. I'm a SM and would NEVER allow my SD to call me mom....but that's another discussion.
She sounds hurt and confused to me. She also sounds like SM is standing over her when she talks, reminding her what to say, encouraging her. Kids are smart, they know what to do to survive and it sounds like your DD is confused and trying to keep her head above water.
At the break, I would suggest having a heart to heart to answer anything that's on her mind. Even the things she asks that she shouldn't know about, you need to address these issues and put them to bed once and for all. Don't dismiss any issues that you consider to be between you and dad. You can address them without putting more pressure on her. She sounds like a smart kid that knows too much. YOu need to ease the burden of her pain.
I remember being that age and asking my parents stuff and they would say NO. I would say WHY. They would answer BECAUSE. It frustrated me. I just wanted them to be honest with me.
And how cruel is the BF, making huge plans and teasing her about all the fund they're going to have without her.
I don't think there's anything wrong with a child calling their stepparent "mommy" or "daddy" as long as it was the child's choice. You said you would never ALLOW your stepdaughter to call you mom... don't you think that's a little harsh?
If I'm not going to tell my SD to call me momma, I'm also not going to tell her to NOT call me momma. At 4 yrs old, I left it up to her. When her father and I were "friends", she called my by my first name. SHE decided one day to start calling me mom. And that is her choice. I am honored to have her call me that. It tells me she understand how much I love her and think of her as a daughter.
FYI... she also calls BM's fiance daddy. And since it was her choice, her father and I support that.
Since it's wrong to force her to call you mommy, isn't it a little hypocritical to force her to call you by your name? Why not let her decide?
I agree with you VA,
When my dh and I got married we told all the kids (his and mine) that they could call us whatever they wanted as long as it wasn't a bad name.
My yss decided to call me mom (he calls his mother mommy) OMG she got pissed, and yss said mommy said I couldn't call you mom anymore. (this coming from a woman who calls a man not related by blood for marriage dad) I simply told yss that at my house he can call me what he wants.
We need to teach our kids to be healthy and happy, not to make them uncomfortable, are some men/woman so insecure that they cannot handle this.
But hey its the usually crap of do as I say not as I do in some of these people that must have drama in their lives to be happy. NO thank you.
**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**
I am a full time stepmom .. I see this all the time.. I am at a loss of wht to say I do not want to correct the child when on the phone with her I feel it may cross boundaries and upset her worse ( mom )
Maybe just maybe it is not encouraged... kids play one against the other all the time... you probably dont want to talk to SM and I understand that ... but maybe it would help the situation?
of course I do not know the situation there so I cannot be sure but just a thought
Just a little update of how the next call went. Thanks for all the advice so far.
She brought up the issue of me blaming SM for EVERYTHING again. This time I decided to try to discuss it with her as much as I could without pointing fingers and making her feel bad about her SM and dad.
Me: I can tell that this is really bothering you since you keep bringing it up. I just don't know why you think that I blame everything on your SM. Can you tell me what you heard me blame on her?
DD: When I was there for summer you told me that it was silly that I kept saying I didn't want to get my hair cut. You said I was just saying that because SM told me not to.
Me: Ok I remember saying that to you. But what I didn't tell you is that I talked to SM and she told me that you where told not to let anyone touch your hair because she doesn't think little girls should have short hair. So that whole time you were saying that you didn't want to cut your hair, you were only saying that because SM told you not to. Why didn't you just tell me that?
(My daughter has extremely long curly hair. It would be beautiful, but she is 9 and a kid and doesn't take care of it. It is a battle to get her to let an adult help her brush or fix it. SM and BF won't spend the money on hair care products to keep it healthy either. She doesn't brush it or fix it half the time and it would be so much easier for her if she got it cut. So some of my family members who had really long hair got theirs cut for Locks for Love to make wigs for kids with cancer. Now when I say cut I mean like shoulder length. She seemed really interested in getting it cut to help other kids and you can tell she just wants to cut it off. But every time I told her I would take her to get her haircut she would tell me no. When I talked to SM about it SM told me that she didn't think little girls should have short hair and that her mom made her have short hair through her childhood so she would make sure her girls didn't have to look like boys like she did. BOO HOO cry me a river. Like anyone had a great childhood. It's fricken hair! It grows back, unless you are an unfortunate child with cancer who loses it all. I wanted to tell her to write to Dr. Phil and stop pushing her sexist opinions on my child because of her screwed up life. She doesn't see that she is prohibiting her from doing something good for others that she wants to do anyways. Just so she doesn't disappoint SM.)
DD: Because it was my choice to not cut my hair.
Me: That's fine. If you really didn't want to get your hair cut and it was your choice than I was wrong for blaming it on you SM. I'm sorry. Is there anything else?
DD: Yes. When your family calls to talk to me and I don't want to talk to them, you said that my SM and dad won't let me talk to them.
First off, "your family" that doesn't give any hints that someone has been saying stuff.
Me: Who has called for you recently?
DD: No one.
Me: You're wrong. Your grandma has called you 3 times, your aunt has called you 2 times and your great grandma came to town and tried to see you. Did you know that?
DD: I knew that great grandma came to town. But I didn't want to see her.
Me: I called you before she came out there to see if you wanted to go shopping with her and you told me yes. Right?
DD: Yes but I changed my mind.
Me: So then if you changed your mind why didn't you pick up the phone when she called and called and called to tell her you changed your mind?
DD: I didn't want to talk.
Me: Well I don't believe you on that. And if that is true then you should be ashamed of the way you treated your great grandmother. She was very excited to see you. She made time in her visit to see you. She was very hurt when she couldn't get a hold of anyone. When you were here, I reminded you to call your grandma (BF's mom who I hate with a passion, but don't make it known to DD) and wish her Happy B-day. Remember that?
(I talked to BF about the situation. He didnt say DD didnt want to go so we didnt want to force her. He said that HE changed his mind about letting DD go with grandma. Said he didn't trust her. And if I want to let DD see my family on my time that was my decision, but that he didnt have to associate with them. I asked him why he didnt call me or pick up the phone when she called all day. He said he didn't pick up the phone when she called because they (him and wife) were sick and didn't want confrontation. So it pisses me off he lets our daughter take the blame.) One of the signs of PAS is child defending the alienating person or people.
You get the idea...our call ended like usual. We just went round and round with blame blame blame.
After asking her how we could make our calls better she asked me if I could cut my calls down to 2x a month instead of once a week. And if I could cut the time down to 10 minutes a call. I just said "No"
She wined and asked why, I asked her if she talks to SM and dad everyday and she said yes and I said well then talking to me once a week is not too much.
So we will see how it goes next week.
Any advice positive or negative is appreciated. I can take it.
Take care!
At first I made a big deal about her calling SM mommy but the more of a stink I made the more she did it and the more joy dad and SM got knowing that I was hurt. I just accepted it. I think that it is a choice for the child to a certain extent. In my situation my DD was encouraged to call SM mommy. Even before they were married. She was told that one day SM would be her real mommy and that I didnt want her anymore. SM has asked me to let her adopt DD. SM and BF have admitted to me that they have told DD that she doesnt have to call me mom anymore. She can refer to me by my name like they do. They say it makes her feel like she is a part of a real family not having to call 2 people mom. In this situation the motive is not in DD best interest, even if she makes it seem like it. The motive in this situation it to push me out of the picture completely.
I refuse to refer to her SM as "your mom" when I talk to DD, but I don't discourage her from saying it either. She doesn't call SD daddy, but we haven't pushed or discouraged.
I know a lot of steps that are worthy of being called mom or dad sometimes more than the BM or BF. I also agree that it's whatever makes the child happy. I just keep telling her that she can love everyone, that she doesn't have to pick.
I have tried to talk to SM. It always ends up with "Oh I was wanted to discuss something with you" "DD says she wants me to adopt her" "DD says that you drove drunk with her" "I don't allow my daughters..." Basically accusations, lies, threats, and insults.
Just as an example: My sister in law (only 15 at the time) was babysitting my daughter (7 at the time) during a visit. DD had an accident, and since she was 7 we didn't pack a change of underwear for a couple hours of sitting. So sister in law gave her a pair of undies that where hers when she was little. (My mother in law keeps EVERYTHING) They were cute little Winnie the Pooh undies. DD ended up taking them home with her. 1 year goes by. Nothing is said. Out of the blue, discussing packing clothes for another visit, SM says "Oh yeah, tell your husbands family not to give my daughter anymore period stained underwear." How psycho is that. That insinuates that my husbands family is dirty and I allow them to pass their dirtiness along to my DD. That pushes a lot of buttons. First of all they are kid's underwear. Like size 8 kids or something. Sister didn't even have a period back when they fit her butt. Second, I washed them. I saw them. They were not stained. If they were I would have taken care of that issue myself as that would have been unhygienic and that's not ok. That's just an example of how something totally kid related can be an insult at the same time.
When a step parent truly has the child's best interest in mind then there is no reason that the BP shouldn't be able to talk to them. I am not in any way saying that all step parents are the way she is. I have grown up with step parents. My SM raised me. So I am not saying that just because she is SM that I don't like her. I don't like her because she is an immoral person and she is teaching her values or lack of them to my child, while BF acts like her little puppy and lets her do whatever she wants to our kid as long as he doesn't have to deal with it.
SM and I used to be best friends. That should give you some history right there.
Sometimes I feel like I divorced SM and she is hell bent to get even ex. But I have talked to her ex; we used to be friends as couples until my ex and her cheated. He says she doesn't treat him this way with their daughter. How nuts is that?
I am sorry that you have to endure the same crap. Just keep being fair and keep in the best interest of the child. They will be old enough some day to see that you are not the wicked step mom that you may feel they perceive you as. And if BM encourages the behavior, just keep trying to be the better person.
yes there is a lot of PAS going on ... I am so sorry you hve to deal with that..
do they have a computer? you know now days you can get weekly visits VIA the computer..at least then you would know if someone was there coaching her AND have proof..and yes many judges will gladly write it into an order if the parents are Long distance...just a thought
It sounds like your daughter is feeling as if you don't understand her or how she is feeling.
May I suggest the following? It will feel awkward at first, but I think you will get good results.
Listen to her and validate her feelings, but not necessarily her perception of reality. Keep repeating the validation until she really feels understood. DON'T defend yourself, just understand her feelings. But don't tell her you were wrong, unless you really feel you were.
Therefore:
Me: I can tell that this is really bothering you since you keep bringing it up. I just don't know why you think that I blame everything on your SM. Can you tell me what you heard me blame on her?
DD: When I was there for summer you told me that it was silly that I kept saying I didn't want to get my haircut. You said I was just saying that because SM told me not to.
Me: Ok I remember saying that to you. But what I didn't tell you is that I talked to SM and she told me that you where told not to let anyone touch your hair because she doesn't think little girls should have short hair. So that whole time you were saying that you didn't want to cut your hair, you were only saying that because SM told you not to. Why didn't you just tell me that?
Try Me: You felt that I wasn't listening to you about your hair because I said that SM was the one that wanted your hair long. (You have not brought any additional information, just trying to understand her feelings. She may have felt belittled "it was just silly" or that you did not believe her when she said it was her decision. You need to let HER tell you what she is feeling and just follow along, confirming that you hear her feelings.)
DD: Because it was my choice to not cut my hair.
Me: That's fine. If you really didn't want to get your haircut and it was your choice than I was wrong for blaming it on you SM. I'm sorry. Is there anything else?
The first part of this is fine, but you moved on too quickly - After I'm sorry, could have said "That must have made you angry because you felt I was not taking what you wanted seriously." or something like that - just keep trying to get her to talk about how issues make her feel.
DD: Yes. When your family calls to talk to me and I don't want to talk to them, you said that my SM and dad won't let me talk to them.
Me: Who has called for you recently?
DD: No one.
Me: You're wrong. Your grandma has called you 3 times, your aunt has called you 2 times and your great grandma came to town and tried to see you. Did you know that?
This statement is going to make her feel defensive and shut down - try finding out WHY she feels you blame her lack of communication on her SM.
DD: I knew that great grandma came to town. But I didn't want to see her.
Me: I called you before she came out there to see if you wanted to go shopping with her and you told me yes. Right?
DD: Yes but I changed my mind.
Me: So then if you changed your mind why didn't you pick up the phone when she called and called and called to tell her you changed your mind?
Once again, you are not listening to her feelings - ask why she did not want to see GGM.
DD: I didn't want to talk.
Me: Well I don't believe you on that. And if that is true then you should be ashamed of the way you treated your great grandmother. She was very excited to see you. She made time in her visit to see you. She was very hurt when she couldn't get a hold of anyone. When you were here, I reminded you to call your grandma (BF's mom who I hate with a passion, but don't make it known to DD) and wish her Happy B-day. Remember that?
Now you have said that she is lying to you and lecturing her on why she should want to see someone. You sound angry with her for not seeing her GGM out of obligation, and she is not going to respond well to that.
I don't know your situation, or what you Ex is like, but I can see how your daughter would feel that your phone calls are not fun and try to get out of them. You have a great opportunity to improve your relationship with her by concentrating on how she is feeling and why, without judging the content. As soon as you start to defend yourself against things with you EX or SM, your daughter gets defensive, because she lives with SM and Dad, so their opinions have to matter to her.
I know this is hard to hear and hard to do, but we have done this technique with SS and it has really helped him respond better.
Thanks Skye. I do know that they have a computer because SM emails me all the time. My daughter knows how to use it because she uses mine all the time when she is here, but she has told me that she isnt allowed to use the one at home. I never even considered trying to get the judge to order email time. Thanks, I'll check into more.
You are right. There have been times when I have played some of the tapes back to listen to what she says and I go "Ughhh why did I say that" or "why did I cut her off" I just get so frustrated in the moment. I try not to cry or yell at her so I push on. I know that's sounds selfish but sometimes I dont know any other way to handle it. I dont want to say anything to place blame on her BF but I end up apologizing or lecturing her instead. I also try not to go into adult detail, so I find myself concentrating extra hard on what I say to her instead of what she is saying to me.
Your suggestions are great. (Even though they confirm some of my negative feelings about how I handle things.) But that's why I am being honest with you all about the conversations and not suger coating them to make me sound like the perfect parent. Sometimes when I ask her about her feelings I think she withdraws because she doesnt want to tell me too much. Also, where do I draw the line of letting her know that it's not ok to be hurtful to people? I have asked her before why she doesnt want to speak to my family and she just says "I dont know" or "because". But when I lecture her, you are right, she doesnt respond well. Actually I might as well just hang up the phone because she really doesnt say much after that.
Neither of us look forward to our conversations because she will bring something up and I will defend, lecture or indirectly call her a liar like in the example you used. She has told me that I call her a liar, but I couldnt remember ever doing it. I suppose this is exactly what she is talking about.
Thank you for your suggestions. I am going to buy a book about talking to kids this weekend. I have also called a few places to see what kinds of parenting classes are available. Havent had much luck with that yet, most are for toddlers or teens. I will try a little harder this time to listen and not defend or lecture. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again.
If I may make a suggestion....while you are at the bookstore pick up a book for DD ..I promise it will be a great investment..
"how to go to visitation without throwing up" Its a book about a child going through visiattion back and forth and things that come about..it is written by a child from the childs point of view.. It talks about phone calls and all kinds of things.
I'm so glad you were able to hear what I was saying. You have to remember that your daughter is desparate to have a relationship with you. She LOVES you.
When you are talking to her and start to feel youself getting upset, pull yourself back and start repeating to her what you hear her saying. Even if you have to repear her exact words, it will help her feel that you understood her. (sounds like you are angry, or I can see why you must have been upset...)
I once took a medation class where this technique was tought. We did a role play between myself and another woman on a made-up topic. Part way through, the other woman burst into tears because she felt that I really understood what she was saying. (All I was doing is trying to identify what she was feeling and validating that feeling) That is how powerful this technique can be.
Good Luck - The fact that you continue to try and are open to new ideas speaks volumes about how lucky your daughter is and that eventually you will get the relationship with her you want.
Hi, I hope you don't mind me jumping in here, but I almost feel like we are in the same exact situation, my ex is married to a very over bearing woman, he is never home and allows sm to make all the decisions and do all the disciplining, she is brutal, I have turned her into child protective services 2x's for beating my child with a brush and a belt. My dd has a complete personality change when she is with me and gets all jittery and nervous when its time to go back home to them. my dd is soon to be 15 in May and now wants to come and live with me, sm critisizes and berates my daughter she has 2 daughters by two previous mariages 11 and 14 and of course they do no wrong, my dd say her sm wakes her in the middle of the night and hollars at her for not hanging up her sweater or she will be watching tv and she makes my daughter sit in the kitchen and she hollars at her about her clothes she says what I buy her is ugly and she says her hair is ugly she took some clothes I had just bought her and said her , (sm) and bf did not approve and she burnt them, sm and bf have 6 kids between them my daughter is 14 she has long curly hair sm won't let dd even do her own hair and she puts it in tught ponytails and braids and leaves it in all week long when i question bf he says she has all those kids to care for and doesn't have time, and I said she took on that responsibility when she married you. My dd is starting to hate it there she is tired of all the mental and verbal abuse, my ex didn't even tell me his wife took dd to her doctor and tried to tell him she was adhd but the doctor disagreed so sm said she was depressed (2 different ends here) and insisted she be on something My dd said sm argued with doctor until he gave her something (paxil) my dd spits the pills out she says sm just wants to control her, I agree. But my daughter is starting to take on a very sad look shes getting dark circles under her eyes she says she think step mom wants her to make a mistake so she can hit her, because I told bf if she put her hands on my dd again she would have her babysitting license revoked so she hasn't hit her in along time but dd says sm wants to send her away to jdc, I told bf that if she doesn't want her around why is he giving me a hard time about changing custody? He's scared of sm too, A coward and our daughter resents him for not protecting her. She feels like shes all alone, I cry myself to sleep thinking about all she goes through and she is a good girl, sm is jealous of her and I think she represents me to sm so she treats her bad. I don't know but I won't stop till my babys here with me!!!!
I dont mind at all, I am just sorry to hear that your dd is going through this. It sounds like Cinderella. OMG. What is wrong with these fathers that are letting these horrible women do this and what kind of women do this to kids? Have you considered going back to court and letting your daughter tell the judge she wants to live with you? See my dd doesnt want anything to do with me, but your dd sounds like she really wants to be with you. If your dd is 15, I bet they will take her wishes into consideration the most. I dont know your situation, where you are from or what caused you to be a NCM, but if CPS isnt doing anything going straight to the judge is the next step. Good luck to you. Keep in touch. You should start your own post and see what kind of advice you can get. There are lawyers that look at these. Let's pray for each other. OOO <-Hugs
PS Tell your dd that the next time her SM takes a belt to her she needs to call the police. At her age, getting physical isnt necessary. There are serious problems if they have been getting physical. Pushing and restraining is one thing, but hitting with a belt is another.
Our order has it in there that bm can talk to ss with a webcam 3 x's a week but bm wont go buy a web cam and do it.
Im thinking maybe the phone calls are monitored and she gets coached on what she said or should have said? My ss is very distant when he is with bm b/c he doesn't want her to know he loves us- but he is never like that. Either someone is standing right there and listening or they record them and listen and talk to her about it after. At 9 she should not have that much knowledge of what is going on.
Maybe writing her letters and sending cards and little things to show her you are thinking of her. That way she can get the stuff and not worry about having to put on a show in front of them.
My ss is 11 and his mom is NCP and we have about 650 miles between us. SS gets mad that bm only calls once a week (if that- sometimes once every other week) and when she calls she has nothing to say to him and the calls are very short.
Maybe try calling more often. Does your CO state you can only call once a week? Make a list of things to talk about- fun things and let her know how much you think about her. Every time my ss goes to counseling he talks about how his mom doesn't call or talk so it is a big issue with him.
All she is hearing is negative stuff about you. Every little thing you do to show her it isn't true will help.