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Main Forums => Moms Without Custody => Topic started by: lizmiller78 on May 12, 2007, 12:38:34 PM

Title: Is there any hope for me?
Post by: lizmiller78 on May 12, 2007, 12:38:34 PM
Here is my situation...

I am a non-custodial mother (by my own choice).  I chose for our daughter to be placed in the custody of her father because it what I believed to be in her best interests.  You see, I'm in the Army, and with the frequency and unpredictability of deployments going at a rapid rate, I wanted her to live in a stable environment without having to jump back and forth when I have to deploy.  I figured it was what was best for her.
Granted that people makes mistakes because that is only human nature.  What I mean by this is the fact that during our divorce process, I ended up meeting a guy and became pregnant.  But this in no way affects how much I love my daughter because I love her with all my heart.  And despite the fact that her father sexually assaulted me when I was 6 1/2 months pregnant with my son, I allowed her to stay with her father because I had no place to live...I had just returned from Korea.  When I was assaulted, I pretended to play like I was still sleeping because I figured it was what was best in my situation.  But despite the fact that...yes I cheated on him while we were still married...I didn't deserve to be assaulted like that!  I never reported it to the police because I weighed all the options out.  1) I didn't have a place to live to provide her food, clothing, and shelter because I had just gotten back to the states,  2)I wanted to honestly believe that this was a retaliation against me for what I did and that he would never do anything like this to our daughter.  He knows that I know about it and told me he was just mad at me but didn't mean to hurt me in any way.  He said that no matter what, I was still his wife and it is his right to have sex with his wife.  NO MEANS NO no matter what the relationship.  He apologized to me and begged me not to say anything because he didn't want to lose Jordan and I agreed because I believe that a child should be raised by both parents, no matter if they are together or divorced...and even if I did report him and he was in jail, I still would have allowed his family to see her because I have an obligation to make sure that she retains that relationship with her other side of the family.
   Here is my problem now.  I deployed in 2004...came back 2005.  During that time, he finally ended up meeting someone.  When I got back, I was in the process of another divorce because my second husband ended up spending all my money I earned in Iraq and left me with barely anything in my account and nothing to show for what he was spending the money on.  My son was with his parents in Virginia and they received no extra money from him...only the money I was sending them on a monthly basis for taking care of my son while I was in Iraq and my son's father was in Korea.  Needless to say, when I got this divorce, my daughter's father started becoming very friendly with me, asking me if I'd like to go out to dinner as sort of a "family thing" for our daughter...and I agreed.  I wanted her to see that we can be civil between each other.  We went on a couple of "family outings" like that...and I thought that this was going great and there truly is life after divorce.  But after my second divorce was finalized, that's when I met my current boyfriend.  When my 1st ex found out about him, all the niceness stopped.  My boyfriend knew that we were going out on "family" basis and he thought that was good...until we started to notice some changes in my daughter's behavior.
    When my boyfriend and I started dating, my ex told me that he had decided to move in with his girlfriend.  Fine.  Then I told him that I was transitioning to move in with my boyfriend.  Ok.  My daughter, who was 4 at the time, was fine with all this.  My boyfriend would bring his daughter (7) over and we'd all have a great time.  But then one weekend when I went to pick up my daughter, she started crying because she didn't want to come to the house.  (???)  In no way did my ex try and support me and told me that it's "her choice" whether or not she wanted to go or not!  NO IT'S NOT!  But I left it because I didn't want to upset her any more than she already was and told her that I still loved her and that I was going to miss her this weekend.  This happened for a whole month.  Then she started calling me by my first name instead of Mommy or Mom.  I eventually had to bribe her to come over to the house by bringing my boyfriend's daughter over to her house to help persuade her to come along.  Soon enough, I became label as the "mean mom" because I disciplined my daughter at my home by raising my voice (not yelling) and placing her in time-out.  It was for simple little things like arguing and hitting the other kids, especially my son (who was 2 at the time), jumping/swinging on the furniture and bed, calling the kids names...simple things.  I would have to explain to her constantly that my rules are different that her dad's rules and that she would have to respect the rules of the house just like the other two kids do...and she'd be ok...until the next weekend.  My ex wouldn't help reinforcing the "follow the house rules" concept because he said that it was my problem and not his.  
     My daughter lives with her father, his girlfriend and her two sons.  My daughter has told me on several occasions that [my son] is not her real brother and that her "real blood brothers" live with her at her Daddy's house.  My ex has prohibited me from encouraging my daughter to call my boyfriend "Dad"...something he even told my 2nd ex HIMSELF!  Yet, it's ok that my daughter called his girlfriend "mom" or "mommy"?  I don't encourage my daughter to call my boyfriend "Dad", even though she asks if she has to call him that.  I constantly tell her that it was her decision and that I wouldn't force her to call him "Dad" but at least call him by his first name.  Yet, I can't enforce the same standard because she calls the girlfriend "Mommy".  I just don't understand it.  Then there's the little things like "Daddy says you talk on the phone a lot because you have a lot of boyfriends," and laughs when she says it!  And the biggest on was when my mom, my daughter, my boyfriend's daughter and I were going to Wal-Mart.  My daughter was on the phone with her dad when all of a sudden, she turns and says "See, my daddy said that you're the meanest girl in the world and I'm the nicest angel princess in the world."  I grabbed the phone in the midst of my driving and questioned him.  He stuttered his words and said that's not what he said.  He said that she must have misunderstood what he said because he said that "they were the two nicest girls in the whole wide world."  I don't buy it.  Things between us have not been civil since which brings me up to the last straw in this life after divorce....
     The summer of 06...we had a blast in the summer.  My boyfriend and I took her on a trip to Hurrican Harbor, took her to a country club in Arkansas, the Dallas Zoo and Aquarium, fishing, camping...the whole 9 yards because we were scheduled for deployment in September of that year.  We made the most of our time with the kids because we were going to be gone for an entire year and wanted our time to be memorable.  When I took her in for my summer visitation, she had to go home for Father's Day weekend as per the divorce decree.  She begged me not to make her go and that she wanted to stay.  Despite her pleas and crying, I told her that it was important that she spend time with her father because it was a special day for him.  After all the crying, begging and pleading, she finally agreed to go.  When she came back she was happy to BE BACK WITH ME that she didn't even tell her dad goodbye when he brought her back for the rest of the summer visitation.  When it was time for her to go home, she begged to stay longer and I explained to her that I can only have her for the time that the judge allowed for her to stay but that she could come visit me after her summer vacation with her dad.  That was the month of June.  I didn't see her for the whole month of July because my ex failed to tell me that he came home the week of my last scheduled visitation in July.  August...same thing...she begged to stay one more day...two more weeks...but I would have to continuously have to explain to her that a judge makes rules that I have to follow and that if I don't I can get in trouble.  She told me several times she didn't want to go home and wanted to stay with me "for a long time."  Her birthday comes around and I only got to see her for 2 hours as per the divorce decree because it was on a non-visitational weekend.  I took her to McDonalds and then took her home.  She told her dad she was mad because I didn't have a birthday party for her but that was already in the making.  Labor Day weekend, we had a surprise birthday party for all the kids (August, Sept, and Oct are their B-days) and told them that we were doing this because we would not be here for all their birthdays and wanted to make sure they had a party where we were there.  All the kids were overwhelmingly happy.  They got lots of gifts from both our families and my boyfriend's parents even came down from Arkansas for the event.  I ended up sending my daughter home with all the toys and clothes she received and told her father that since I would not be here to see her wear the clothes, I wanted him to keep them for school clothes.  That next weekend after Labor Day was my last weekend with her.  Because of my job I had very little time with her so she spent most of her time with my parents.  I had to work on the weekend with last minute details for deployment, but I still made the most of that time.  That's where it leads me to where we are today...
     Exactly ONE WEEK before we were scheduled to deploy, CPS comes to my mom's house.  My boyfriend and I were living with them because we just gave up our house due to deployment and all our stuff was in storage.  CPS told me that my daughter was sexually assaulted by my boyfriend...didn't give any details whatsoever.  I was torn.  I had to sign a Safety Plan stating that I would supervise any contact between him and my son.  Then a couple of days later, CPS calls and says my boyfriend had to move out and that he is a threat to children!  His lawyer suggested that he move into a friend's house who had no kids...but all our friends were gone at this point...they were all deployed!  So he stayed in a hotel for a week until our money ran dry.  We ended up moving my son to my brother's apt so he could come home.  We still had no clue what the allegations were exactly.  He was told he had to take a polygraph in which he failed because he was shocked and disgusted at the question they asked.  When he came home, all he could do was puke at the thought of the questions.  My ex refused to have a forensics medical exam done on my daughter and opted for the interview instead.  I finally got a chance to see the tape and all I could do was cry.  It was my daughter in the video but that wasn't my daughter making those accusations.  The story they had just didn't add up to anything that even remotely happened during the summer, which she said the incident took place.  My daughter sticks to me like glue, just like my boyfriend's daughter sticks to him like glue.  When they're both at our house, both the girls stick to me like glue and want to go everywhere I go!  They even stick to EACH OTHER and do everything TOGETHER...take baths, change clothes, play and argue...just like normal siblings.  But to hear her say the things she said hurt me so much.  How does a child go from begging and crying to stay with you longer during the summer to hating and not wanting to see you ever again?  It doesn't add up.
     Recently I decided to get copies of her school and medical records for my boyfriend's lawyer.  I had a friend who's daughter was molested by her step-uncle.  She barely passed the 1st grade because of the emotional distress so he suggested getting these records.  I know I also had the same trouble when I was molested by my father.  When I did get her records, I was surprised.  She was receiving S(satisfactory) and S+ on her grades which is equivilent to A's, she is 1 out of 9 in all of Kindergarden that is on the Accelerated Reader's List, and she was nominated to the state's Gifted Education Program.  I finally got a lawyer and she suggested writing a letter to notify him of my intent to exercise visitation away from my current home in a "safe house".  I did this with no response to my letter from her father.  When I got to the house, I was greeted by a re from the Sherriff's Department who served me papers of a Temporary Restraining Order and Citation to Modify Custody.  Now he is seeking Full Custody with supervised visitation.  A simple "no" from him would have sufficed because I understand the whole bit about my boyfriend having to go to court over this issue.  But I wish he just understood that my intentions were not to interrogate her about what happened.  I don't want to distress her with that.  All I wanted to do was let her know that I still love her, I miss her terribly, and that I'm not mad at her for the things she said.

Can anyone please offer me any advice?  What should I do?  I'm just in a really sticky situation and all that we're concerned with is her welfare because we believe he is trying to alienate her from me and we have more than enough evidence to prove it.
Title: RE: Is there any hope for me?
Post by: anglemama on May 13, 2007, 11:11:11 AM
You should put your words into more paragraphs so that its easier to read..a lot of people will not wade through that.

I am a sexual assault counselor..and I talk to a lot of mom's like you everday.  Quite honestly if your BF failed a lie detector test its most likely because he is a child molester..and NOT because he was sickened by the questions that he was asked (one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard).  Your primary job as a mom is to do everything in your power to protect your daughter..and not to rehash the past, and try to justify whatever decisions have been made that you didn't like.

I see you being primarily concerned with feeling alienated from your daughter and not at all being concerned for her safety.  Your bf is a child predator..and you're concerned about being isolated from your daughter?  Its no wonder really, I've never even met you and I can tell that you're primary concern is your BF and NOT your daughter.  Kudos to dad for keeping his daughter away from the mess that you're propagating.  Please stop procreating and get some counseling.  Search google for rape crisis centers in your county, call one, and take the advice of a counselor on how to best support your daughter and NOT the perp.  Think about your daughter and how horrible this must be.  Can you imagine being sexually assaulted and having your mother stand by your offender?  I say this to help you seriously, and I hope that you take some of my words to heart.  GL!
Title: After you posted this, I went back and reread the post
Post by: olanna on May 14, 2007, 11:15:02 AM
and I am amazed and shocked at what I read.  I was also the victim of sexual molestation at a very young age, by a neighbor.  Something to remember here...where the child is confident about him/herself, he/she is going to promote the safety of themselves...and they are going to speak out.  I was a shy kid.  But I knew what this guy did to me was so wrong, as my father and brothers never touched me in those places. I went straight home and told my family.

And if this child did the same...well, Mom, what's up?
Title: RE: Is there any hope for me?
Post by: krazyfamily_6 on May 14, 2007, 12:59:44 PM
I'm sorry but I have to agree with the other two responses!

You chose to move your son OUT of the house so your boyfriend, who your daughter accused of molesting her, could move back in?

I know that MY first priority would be the safety of my children!!  It doesn't seem that is your priority right now.
Title: RE: Is there any hope for me?
Post by: lizmiller78 on May 14, 2007, 06:12:02 PM
Yes, I am concerned for my bf but I am also genuinely concerned about my daughter and maybe I didn't make it very clear in my original post.

I MYSELF have been sexually molested by my father and then had to re-lived my nightmare when my daughter's father SEXUALLY ASSAULTED me in the midst of my sleep.  I was 6 1/2 months pregnant with my son.  Yes I am concerned with my daughter's welfare and safety, I really am.  In fact, have tried to get my ex to take her to the hospital to get an examination done but he has REFUSED.  If truly did happen, why did he not get her examined right away?  Why didn't he do the exam PLUS the forensics interview?  By not taking her to get examed, despite the lack of DNA evidence, is that not considered neglect?  I want to know if my daughter is physically ok.

I am a Sexual Assault Response Coordinator and KNOW that there are medical professionals (S.A.N.E. team) that are highly skilled and trained to conduct these examinations without re-traumatizing the child.  I've tried and tried and tried to even get a court order to get her examined but I've been blocked by CPS constantly.  I understand that DNA evidence only survives 72 hours but even if the evidence was not there anymore, there still would be trauma to the area that can be detected with a special dye.  When I was molested by my father, I wanted to go and live with my aunt in the next town.  Can you offer me an explanation as to why she would beg to stay with me longer during visitations and cry when I had to take her home because, seriously, I don't understand it.  

I'm saying all this sincerely, and I am not mad at your post, even though you were very harsh with your words in stating that I should "stop procreating."  I don't feel as a counselor that your statement was professional.  I did fail to mention that he had passed a second lie detector test as well as a psychosexual evaluation.

I did what I thought was best for my daughter, which was to give her a stable environment and household in which to live with her father.  But I have come to realize that he has been damaging her emotionally since the time of our divorce.  Many of our mutual friends have stopped talking to him because they do not feel it is right to talk bad about me in front of my child.  That is something only he and I should discuss.  I love my daughter, but despite what you say, I also know that my bf did not do this!  

You may say I am a terrible mother, but my daughter didn't act like this before this incident.  She cried almost everyday last summer because she didn't want to go home, but despite it all, it's my responsibility as her parent, to promote her relationship with her father.  It is also my duty to make sure that she is in a safe environment in which to flourish.  

I do want to say that I told her father that she told me that her daycare worker "Mr Shawn" who walks her to school everyday took her on a "short cut".  She seemed pretty upset about it so I told her I would talk to her dad and ask him to look into it.  I would call to see if he found out anything but he never looked into it because he said it was probably nothing and he wouldn't suspect anything from any of those workers because her daycare was at a church.

Please, get to know ME before placing full judgment on me.  I have been pushed down all my life and I don't need to be pushed down anymore.  If it means anything, my ex-sister in law believes that something is not right with her own brother.
Title: RE: After you posted this, I went back and reread the post
Post by: lizmiller78 on May 14, 2007, 06:20:14 PM
I'm trying to to be on the defensive on this forum by replying but please know that I myself have been molested as a child as well as sexually assulted as an adult.  Please understand that my daughter made a complete 180 turn in less than a week.  She gets along great with my bf and never had any issues being around him...but to hate us in less than a week?  And then to hear her say hateful things after she JUST TOLD you a couple of days ago that she loved you?  She didn't want to let me go when I last saw her because she knew that I would go to Iraq.  Surprisingly, she even remembered what her grandmother, my ex's mother, said when I came back and asked me "not to die like Nana said you should have done."  I was shocked, but I know that maybe I was not clear in my words in my post, but please understand that I know what it's like to be molested and re-live that nightmare when her father sexually assaulted me.  

I am not angry at anyone's words on this forum.
Title: RE: Is there any hope for me?
Post by: lizmiller78 on May 14, 2007, 06:24:45 PM
I know it is my priority but if you knew how my life was with my daughter's father compared to would understand.  It's not like I've had my bf for a couple of's been two years now and he has been more of a father to my son than my son's actual father has been.

I am deeply concerned with my daughter's safety and welfare and have been trying to take the court measures necessary to make sure that she receives the treatments that she needs in her situation but her father is refusing to take her to any of the appointments I have set up for her through her pediatrician.
Title: RE: Is there any hope for me?
Post by: lizmiller78 on May 14, 2007, 06:35:39 PM
I might as well say that there is no hope for me and that I have lost my daughter for seems like from the posts I am a bad mother although I know I am not...

I cry everyday for my daughter...everyday...because the day this happened, my world froze and went back to the hell I was in when I was living with her father.  For as long as he has her, he will continue to use her against me in the same ways that he has in the past.  

I'll say this...I stayed 3 1/2 weeks with my daughter in the hospital after she had her surgery, but her father did not come see her but ONCE.  He said he refused to see his daughter in such a condition...but she needed us the most and I was there, hoping and praying that she would get better.

Yes...and kudos to the man who is helping my daughter through all this but couldn't help but rape me in my sleep when I was pregnant.  Kudos to the man who says "I can't control what my family says about you in front of our daughter."  

I'm going to end it here and never return to this forum.  I expected to get some criticism but I also expect to get help.  I DO BELIEVE something happened to my daughter, but I also know that my bf didn't do it.
Title: RE: Is there any hope for me?
Post by: anglemama on May 14, 2007, 08:34:11 PM
Ok.  You say you care.  Good, your daughter is going to need as much support as she can possibly get. You say that you're part of a SART team, well then you should know that while it is important for her to get an medical attention, you also realize that after a week the chances of finding any physical evidence during a FRE is almost nill.  I've seen the DA's office request that child victims NOT get FRE's for a variety of reasons.  Given your history of supporting the perp..I highly doubt that they're letting you on on a lot of the details in your bf's criminal investigation.  Start supporting your daughter and maybe that will change.

Regardless the thing that everyone has a problem with is the fact that you're still with the boyfriend.  Given that there is even the tiniest chance that its true is it worth the risk?  What man is worth that?  

If you're serious about getting your daughter back, and in the very least gaining substantial visitation then you need to prove to CPS, to dad, to everyone that you can that BF is out of the picture.  At least until everything is cleared up.  

As part of a SART team you should also be aware that each victim handles their victimization VERY differently, how you reacted when you were a child is not necessarily how your daughter will react.  I've seen kids cry and cry to return to the home of their abuser.  I've seen children who were almost killed by their parents trying their entire lives to forge relationships with them.  I've seen children abused as children allow their abusers to have access to their very own children.  Everyone reacts differently.

When you grow up in a family where there was sexual abuse your likelihood of becoming victimized again is very great, as is your chance of marrying an abuser.  What dad did to you when you were pregnant is horrible, and that wasn't ok.  I hope that you've received counseling, or are planning to do so.

So the best thing that you can do is to prove to everyone, by jumping through whatever hoops necessary that your primary focus is your daughter.  Right or wrong (in your mind) that cannot be accomplished while having a relationship with present boyfriend.  Unfortunately right now, as of this moment you have to make a choice, your daughter or your boyfriend?  As a mom, I know what I would pick.  So..Liz..what is your choice going to be?

And one called you a 'bad mother'  I would say however, that you ARE a mother who has made VERY VERY bad choices.  But it might not be too late for you....
Title: RE: Is there any hope for me?
Post by: lizmiller78 on May 15, 2007, 04:58:46 AM
So are you telling me that my chances of going into an abusive relationship or relationship with any type of abuser is higher because I myself have been abused?  Then what am I...the unluckiest person in the world?  I've already had two bf's leave because they were being acused of similar just happened that this man is defending himself.  

My ex and I grew up together, went to high school together, and eventually ended up getting married.  Everyone in my hometown can tell you how possesive and overbearing he was of me, but I didn't think that out of the ordinary...just that he loved me.  We were both in the Army...I succeeded more than he did...and he showed his jealousy.  When I got my divorce, he told me he would never be out of my life.  He told my second husband that he will always be "loved by Liz's family" because he thinks he made a difference in my life when he made it a living hell for me.  I tried to make it work for my daughter, but when his whole family supports his every move instead of "ours", it gets old.  In the end, our marriage was "his mother's way or the highway".  

I've tried everything I could to get my daughter help as soon this was brought up, but everything that I've requested has been shot down.  Trust me, I've been seeing a therapist since this whole thing started because this is the 3RD time that a bf "did" something.  My therapist has suggested that he get some sort of "personality" examination done because based on his past actions in our marriage and given some of his history background that HE provided himself, she believes that he has a narccisistic complex.  

The last two times, I CHOSE my daughter ver my bfs...and when they left, the charges against them were "magically dropped" and they never returned because they knew that as long as I had someone else other than my daughter's father in my life, it would be like this.  I might as well live my life in solitude because that's the only way my ex is going to be happy...seriously...he still has control over my life even after our divorce and my bf is the only one who has stood up for me by telling him enough is this is his payment in return?  

I KNOW that my daughter would have reacted the same as did.  When she gets in trouble, she goes into time-out and she knows this...but all of a sudden, she starts hiding her face with her hands shaking and puttin her hands on her butt.  I discipline my own daughter at my home and I have NEVER laid a hand on her because that is not what I believe.  

My daughter has only gone to a doctor twice in the past 3 years.  My ex claims that she has been more often, but it would have shown on my insurance claims.  When the first incident happened, I made appointments like crazy for her to see a counselor to help her cope with her situation and when I asked how everything was going in the sessions, he said they were great.  I asked him what the name of the counselor was and he said he couldn't remember.  Then I got these phone calls at work because I kept making the appointments for her to attend, as he requested me to do, but she wasn't going to them.  I told him where the appointments were going to be and when I confronted him about it, he told me that all she needed was just him.

This is why I chose BOTH my daughter and my bf.  I am truly concerned for the safety of my daughter at this point.  I am concerned with her medical welfare and am glad that this has not affected her schoolwork as she made high marks and was nominated to the State's Gifted Education program.  But no matter what kind of help that I try and get for my daughter to seek therapy, he blocks it or his gf blocks it.  Even if he DID take her to a therapist, he'd take her to one that my insurance covers because he doesn't want to pay and cost-shares or co-payments and mine pays 100% PLUS it would show up on my insurance claims.

So as bad as everything might sound, you ask me to choose between my daughter and my bf...i must choose both BUT my daughter is my PRIMARY concern.  I know my bf can take care of himself, and I and my family and friends are here when he needs support.  but OUR (my bf and I) primary focus is to make sure my daughter is getting the help that she needs because this cycle in all our lives needs to stop.  She needs to talk to a counselor or therapist or someone so that we all can find out what's going on in her life.

I've talked to other SARCs on the installation and they started off by saying some of the same things you have told me, but when I told them my whole life story...about the mental and emotional abuse I endured during my marriage from him and his family...and then the repeated allegations every time I've TRIED to move on with my life...they realized why I'm doing what I'm doing.  They do tell me that I need to have him out of the picture and that I could still support him and not let anyone know just to get some sort of visitation.  But even then, when the bf moved out for a while, they still denied me visitation or contact.

You can't tell me that every man I chose in my life is some sort of abuser or sexual predator.  I know that I don't have THAT bad of luck.  I'm scared truly scared that something did happen to her.  I've been racking my brain trying to think of clues she might have said to me.  The only thing I could remember saying was that her daycare worker Mr S "took [her] on a shortcut."  She seemed pretty upset about it and didn't say much after that but I told her father.  He never looked into it because he said her daycare was run by a church and they were "good Christian people."  Also, his brother-in-law, who also has the same name as my bf, was accused several times a while back of sexually harrassing and eventually allegedly sexually abusing his step-daughter.  Even though every single time she ran away, the cases would become unsubstantiated and she would have to come home or her friends' parents would be charged with harboring a runaway.

I do need to make a correction though...I was a SARC for my unit until they found out that I myself was sexually assaulted (which is documented in my pregnancy medical file, but I chose not to report it) which by Army regulations disqualifies me from my position and I had to resign.  But I do know that if there is any small chance that this DID happen to my daughter, SHE NEEDS HELP.  I am trying my hardest to get her that help, but her father just won't help me get the help she needs, unless he knows for sure that the bf is out of my life for good...then I'd be willing to bet that the charges will be dropped "magically" just like the others did.  This is a game to him and unfortunately my daughter is getting hurt by being in the middle.
Title: SAd...
Post by: olanna on May 15, 2007, 07:32:10 AM
You know, it's been said to me that either a mother gives up custody or she gets caught robbing a bank with a needle hanging out of her arm to lose custody...dramatic, but I can almost see where that is kind of true.

Certainly in some cases, their is an unfair balance with money, courts, or what have you... I am living proof.  I never had a child abuser, or any of the above going on in my life.

So, it's kind of strange to me that you would hold the relationship above the children.  I hate to tell you this but whether he did it or not, he's being accused of it.  And maybe, just maybe, HE needs to move out and you need to spend a little time alone, sorting this out.  It's hard to see things clearly when you in are all up in the mix, and what you need to do is clear the air, and gain perspective.  I truly feel if he loves you like you say, he will be completely understanding.  If not, oh well.  Do you know how many men are out there???

I spent time alone after my second divorce and custody battle. I will tell you it was the best thing for personal growth I could have ever done for myself.  I became stronger, went through some really rough times, and it all worked out in my favor.  It can for you too, if you just go into it with a good state of mind.

So take a break from the relationship.  Get into some therapy, and let those children know you want them back in your life and you believe how important their safety is and trust them.

I know this might not be the response you wanted but with all the information you provided, I felt the need to say this.

I hope you think about I said.
Title: RE: Is there any hope for me?
Post by: backwardsbike on May 21, 2007, 04:51:44 PM
I will write in short papragraphs so that you can understand this, Sexual Assualt Counsleor.  I sincerely hope that you do not work directly with people.  You are very quick to judge and are not at all willing to consider that this might just not be sexual assualt.  In this country we are innocent until proven guilty- not the ohter way around.  I did not see in this mother's letter that she had more concern for her BF than for her DD.  What I see is a woman who is trying to make sense of an  accusation that was not made until AFTER her DD returned home at the end of the summer.

Maybe the primary concern here IS alienation and NOT sexual assualt. No, it doesn't look good that he failed the polygraph, but a lot of people fail polygraphs who a innocent.  If you are guilty you supposedly cannot pass one- but the opposite is not true if one is innocent.  Being nervous will cause a person to fail a polygraph- that's why they are inadmissable in court.

For the mother-  I was the vicitm of false allegations as well.  My Dh was the target as well.  It stinks and makes it just about impossible to have any sort of cohesive family unit with your NC kids.  I fought every imagainable lie for nine years until I finally gave up.  The court didnot care thatmy DH and I have two children who live with us full time and attend all school and docotr appointments.  No other person seems to think thereis any reason for concern except my X.

Twice we have been investigated by CYS and both times the reports were unfounded.  My yunger children, who are custodial are healthy, happy and well adjusted.  N obody has ever suggested that my DH ever made any threats against justt he older kids, so how can tow kids be doing so well adn two lolder kids be terrified out of thier minds?

My oldest child even admitted to me that he had lied tot he judge adn would do so again if his dad told him to do so.  My older DD stole medical and fincnaial records form my home to give to her dad because he wanted more $$$ in CS and thoughthe could take it rom my 81 year old father whose financial records are kept in my home.

People like the sexual assualt counsleor who posted are exactly the reason I lost custody in the first place.  I sincerely hope these people who are supposed to be "professionals" will wake up and smell the coffee adn realize that when they make unproven claims they are hurting innocent children by depriving them of a good and loving parent.  And not only is the NC child being hurt- the custodial child is j=injured by having his family disrupted as well.

To the NCM- I wish you God speed in gettng thru this mess.  Good luck to your BF- I hope he's got a great lawyer becasue it sounds like he's gonna need it.
Title: RE: Is there any hope for me?
Post by: lizmiller78 on May 22, 2007, 06:26:23 PM
Thank you so much for understanding me.  While everyone seems to just kick me down, you picked me back up and dusted me off.  
Title: RE: Is there any hope for me?
Post by: olanna on May 23, 2007, 10:03:54 AM
Um, just because the answers aren't what you want to hear, doesn't mean we are kicking you down.

I gave you good sound advice, that I followed myself.  Truth is, you don't need a man to make you whole.  And the advice I gave to you was to take care of yourself, do some soul searching and get to the bottom of why your children need to live somewhere else instead of with you.

Ever hear of the law of attraction?  Take some time and check it out.
Title: RE: Is there any hope for me?
Post by: backwardsbike on May 23, 2007, 02:40:48 PM
Anytime sister, anytime.  Glad to do it.
Title: RE: Is there any hope for me?
Post by: backwardsbike on May 23, 2007, 02:50:37 PM
Have you ever thought perhaps the reason her kids need to live somewhere else is that her X is a miserable soul who can't allow her to have any happiness in her life.  After all, two of my children "have to live somewhere else" and two don't.  What law would you use to explain that dichotomy?

How quick we are to judge another.  I didn't read anywhere that she needs a man to make her whole but I did read that this si the third relationship that has been messed with. let's look at that pattern a moment.

Sometimes you just get very tired of being controlled. I did.  My Xhad no difficulty wiht my Dh until he found out that there was a possiblity that he would have to pay child support AND my faterh who had been backing my X woke up and smelled the coffee and pulled out of the mess.  Once X realized his chance at snatching my dad's money was gone my Dh became a child abuser, a molester, a lunatic and whatever else one could be called of a degratory nature.

Where were X's concerns when the kids were there the whole summer?  He has claimed these allegations before.  Did he suddently think that mom had magically improved her choices in men. Heck no- he didn't care until he knew there was a new man on the block.  She went thru two other investigations and both times the charges "magically disappeared".  If I thought my X had alowed somebody to hurt my child there's no way in hell that the charges would "magically disappear" because I would be taking my spouse for supervised visists if I thought his judgement was so poor that he'd allow a perp around my children.  This father did no such thing- and it happened twice!

Sometimes a cigar just ain't a cigar. This doesn't add up at all. Nobody walks a mile in her moccassins so nobody has a right to judge her.  It sounds to me like she came here looking for support- and I don't see any.
Title: He's obvioulsy onto something or
Post by: olanna on May 23, 2007, 08:01:00 PM
he is really good at what he is doing, so either way, as I suggested, she should consider some down time that doesn't include a man in her life.

It's good and sound advice.

She wants her kids back in her life.  If it meant not having a relationship until they are grown, who cares?  They are only going to be young once and certainly, if she took the time to think about what I am saying, she would see the plan could work.

Sure worked for me.  No judgements...but when I see that someone had their son move out to stay in a relationship, well, I calls um like I sees um.
Title: her bf failed a polygraph
Post by: catherine on May 24, 2007, 10:29:47 AM
and she wants to believe it's because the questions were disgusting.  Why are you defending that?
Title: RE: He's obvioulsy onto something or
Post by: lizmiller78 on May 24, 2007, 08:49:31 PM
First off...understand the situation...

We moved out of our house because we were SUPPOSED to deploy.  He had no place to stay...EVERYONE WAS GONE!  My family was nice enough to let us stay.  HE HAS NOWHERE TO GO.  All our stuff was in storage...packed away because, again, we were going on a deployment.  He DID move out for a month...but then all our money drained we told CPS that in order to get us out of financial stress, we were sending my son to my brother's house.  They were fine with this.  Also understand that they ordered him out of the house WITHOUT follow-ups like they planned on doing (home visits, interviews, etc)  

Our Commander found out at CID that they have NO DOCUMENTATION of the polygraph whatsoever and through further investigation, the examiner confessed that results were altered due to his own biased opinion of the allegations and he was relieved of his duty.  The DA knows now the only evidence they have is "he said/she said."

I DID go to court today because my ex filed a temp restraining order and a modification for child custody...all because of a letter my atty told me to write him.   In it I stated that I was requesting visitation for mother's day weekend and that visitation would occur at my mother's house (since we moved out of that house about 4 months ago) and that my fiancee would not be allowed on the property AT ALL.  But because of that letter, the judge saw no threat in my request and granted me my visitational rights.  They are supervised by my daughter's babysitter, of course, until my BF's case is over.  The final hearing will be after that.

I had my day in court today...and I got to see my daughter.  For the first time, my heart was healed in an instant when I walked across the parking lot as she came running to me telling me that she missed me.  She didn't want me to go!  And I'm not making any of this up because I have the whole 2 hours digitally recorded (perfectly legal in Texas as long as 1 person in the conversation knows about it...namely me).  My mother was also witness as was the babysitter's teenaged daughter.   She even asked me if my BF was mad at her in which I told her that NO ONE is mad at her and that we all loved her very much and hope to see more of her.  SHE WANTED TO GO HOME WITH ME.

So...does anyone have an explanation for this?  Or can no one be happy that my daughter was happy to see me, even after all this?  Because if's perfectly ok because there are many other people that I know who are glad that I got the chance to see my daughter.

To those questioning the polygraph...statistics show that you have to LIE in order to PASS a polygraph and that not all people are meant for tests like these.  Look it up.  Any type of emotional change causes physiological changes in the body will register as a take a polygraph totally unprepared for the questions, have your lawyer show up late, have an examiner who tells you over and over again how much he "hates liars" and try answering questions you could NEVER imagine yourself doing to a child.  I can GUARANTEE you will not pass.

This is not about my's about my daughter.  We have made EVERYTHING about my BF's daughter...our son.

So say what you will...
Title: Have you ever watched American Idol?
Post by: olanna on May 25, 2007, 08:18:37 AM
Have you noticed that the ones that make it the farest in that show are the ones that take that criticism with a smile?  They really listen to what is being said....focus completely on the things being told them to make them the best and they go and practice it.

The ones that get defensive and angry simply don't make it, because they don't take that information and apply it to where it is going to work best for them.

Now, I don't know you or your bf.  I don't know any of your past bf's or your ex.  I only know what you are sharing with us here, and MY OWN EXPERIENCE in being a Mom that lost custody of her son.  All those things that were said about me in court were about 99% untrue.  The only true thing they made clear was that I was highly paid professional with a good education.

So I lost custody.  And soon lost my job.  But none of that stopped me from proving to them (and yes, taking all those things they said, without ever raising an eyebrow), how wrong they were.  I wrote letters to my son, left messages on the phone and even had people here from SPARC stop off to check on him (at a distance) while he played with friends in his yard. You see, we were 3500 miles apart.  The custody battle put the final weight on my already failing marriage, so that ended. NO problem. I took advantage of that sitch and put complete focus on staying in touch with my son, living my life to prove they were wrong and working as much as I could.

If everything were really about your kids, let me ask you this....Why didn't your bf go and stay with your brother, so your son could stay with you?  Your first and foremost commitment to anything in this world is to the children you gave birth to, am I right?  I troubles me that you can't see can't seem to see the problem with that.

As far as your bf's guilt or innocence, I will say this; once a man is accused of something this horrific, it's very hard for him to shake that.  Now, I don't whether or not lie detectors mean a thing.  But it doesn't matter and I really hope you will get this.....Your bf, your career, the courts mean NOTHING.  Your children you are mom to are the focus here.  So make them the focus. And if you are attempting to do this, take this advice from a Mom that struggled harder than you can even begin to imagine to maintain a relationship with her son.  I am not passing judgement, I am telling you what WILL work for you.
Title: RE: her bf failed a polygraph
Post by: anglemama on May 25, 2007, 04:39:41 PM
I absolutely defend every shred of advice that I gave to you.  I work with FAR too many child sexual assault cases to believe that the DA's office got involved in this case based purely on a controlling demended father.  In fact, I staunchly believe that when abuse is happening in a situation where the families are not intact that it is SO much harder for children to be protected.  The parent trying to protect their child from abuse must first climb the 'its just a custody' mountain.  There is absolutely no way that CPS, would have made that determination, and that the DA's office got involved unless there was more to it then a dad being vindictive.  No way, no how.  

Your boyfriend failed a lie detector test.  I don't care who you hubby, my whatever...if my kid says that you touched him, and you fail a lie detector...see ya later.  No person in the entire world is worth putting my child at risk, no matter HOW much I love them (ie. don't want to believe that its true).

I've seen sexually abused children cry in my office because based on the abuse from boyfriends mother, and their mother continuing to defend her boyfriend..the child was placed in foster care.   And the child misses her home, and misses her mother..and doesn't get the enormity of the situation.  I've had kids tell me that the prefered to be abused rather then endure a seperation from their mom.  Because they want to return to their mother's care..does that mean that they weren't abused..absolutely not.  

I have sympathy for those that are wrongly accused..does it happen.  Sure.  I've seen it first hand and the child in the case, along with the accused are horrible victims.  Its a terrible thing, and I've seen it first hand.  However, based on the nonsense written in this post I highly doubt that this is one of them.

Child molesters are very manipulative charming people.  How else could they do what they do.  They are 'likable' people by definition.  Which is why they are so good at getting away with this kind of crap.  
Title: RE: her bf failed a polygraph
Post by: backwardsbike on May 25, 2007, 07:33:49 PM
Because I'm apsychiatric nurse, have been for 25 years, and know a few technical hthings about how polygraphs work. Why do you think they aren't admissible in court?

Very few people can be lying and not be found out.  Sociopaths for instance.  Let's say ted bundy killed a woman but lied adn said he didn't.  Maybe he could pass the test if he din't feel what he did was wrong or was really good at controlling physiological signs of stress- think someone really into yoga.  But if he didn't actaully kill her and was worried thinking he was gonna go to the chair for somehting he didn't do- reasonable, right?  He could fail the test because of his physiological signs of stress.

The machine only measures one's physiological signs.  Yes, they change when lying- if lying is stressful.  But its the stress that causes the reaction.  And I can only imagine how stressed her fiance was- he'smilitary- can you say "Jail time, end of career, megan's law website, never any security clearances...."?  If one was a sociaopath and lying wasn't stressful then one would pass the test- even when guilty.

I knwo polygraphs are really dramatic- but understand the test.  I know you from this site and I know that you saw Soc advise taking one if you were accused of abuse.  But the valaue of the test was only IF you passed adn then the other party REFUSED to take cone.  The really clincher is the refusal of the other party to take the test.
Title: RE: her bf failed a polygraph
Post by: backwardsbike on May 25, 2007, 08:21:44 PM
I doubt that you are very familiar with alienation tactics.  I am and I wish it were only thru my professional work.  But this is thru my own life.

Ileft my husband and met and married a man with a mental illness.  My husband has biploar disorder and is a recovering alcoholic.  My X had no problem with the kids spending 50 % of overnights in our home as long as I lived just two miles from him.  He stalked me.  The lawyer said- Oh, we don't wanna tick off the judge- everyoe in divorces has to go thru this nonsense, it will get better after you settle the property.  But X was in the house and didn't want to settle anything.  he was in the cat bird seat.  But he liked having me and my husband under his thumb and he liked being able to call the shots and use me as his babysitter when it suited him and to dictate my time with the kids.  SO it went on this way for two years.

Then the property HAD to be stteld.  X didn't like the way it turned out.  He also moved his GF into the house and she was fired from her job.  He needed to keep her occupied and suddenly I wasn't a good person to do the day care anymore.  He didn't like the fact that my Dh and I had only one car and my Dh worked til 9PM and the kids had to come with me to pick up Dh from work.  They were by this time 8 and 10, were doing fine in school no problems.  But X kept picking, causing problems, fooling with the schedule.  He sent people to my Dh's work to spead rumors about him.  Sent his wife to spy on DH at work.  My Dh became more anxious, he began to walk off his job due to anxiety attacks so severe he had to get away from everyone.  X used this in court to say we were unstable.  A custody eval was ordered when X threatened me at a custody exchange.

His lawyer was allowed to pick the evalautor and they of course won.  The report was so biased that I had to have a psych eval just to prove tot he judge that I am mentally competent.  My husband became disabled due to the stress.

After X got custody the problems only got worse.  More spying using the kids to gain info about financials at my house Dh's medical history, habits.  There was a period of time Dh had to be off the property when they kids were here.  It was to last 90 days and was put in place during the custody eval by the crooked evalautor.  It lasted 18 months because X wouldn't drop it.  Then when it was finally lifted- I had eye witnesses to say DH was fine to be around the kids and a boat load of professionals who worked with our family saying we were all fine- the new order read that DH had to have an adult supervisor with him when I wasn't home and he was with the NCkids for more than an hour.  Now he was doing all the daycare for our own two kids and no one cared but the NC kids had to have a supervisor when they were here.  I paid a dollar an hour more for the supervisor that I made at work.  Finally the judge ordered Dh evalauted.  he was found to be perfectly capable of wathcing the kids- all of them when I wasn't home.

X really ramped up the alineation tactics.  Within a year the kids were making false accusations against me adn Dh.  They found a beer bottle in Dh's closet, not true but they didn'thave to prove it.  They claimed I favored the younger kids over them, again not ture but how do you rpove it?  We were in and out of court on these thngs for three years.  My Dh's condition got worse.  he had psychiatric hosptial admissions- hell- who wouldn't he was still the center piece of all the lies.  My NCkids began smuggling documents out of my house. They hacked our computer system for their dad, they stole Dh's medical records, they recorded the names of his meds, they stole financial information about us from our homes- checking account numbers, credit cards. They planted beer in my car and blamed Dh for driving drunk. he was admitted to the hospital again.  We went thru two false CYS reports, investgated both times.  had a secod custody eval- kids lied adn evalautor documented it but said they still belonged with dad because they were used to his home adn it was "more stable"  No doubt- nobody there was goin into the mental hospital but why was my Dh ill?  Why did he require hospitalization?

My children are no longer visiting in my home.  They do not return my phone calls. On Mother's Day they called me- the first time they ever did so when the hoilday fell on time they weren't with me.  When I retured thier call they were rude to me on the phone and very cold.

I "chose" my husband and two younger kids over my NC kids.  I should not have had to make that choice.  The GAL in our case is biased against me because she feels I should put my Dh out of my home and life and take the NC kids back into my home.  The only thing that hasn't been alleged yet is sexual abuse- I'm not about to let that one happen.  They know where I am, they can call and I'll meet them at McDonalds if they want to see me.  But it doesn'tlook like that will be an issue becasue when they found out that Dh was staying in the home and they were the ones on the outside looking in this time they stopped returning my calls.

My Dh was supposed to be the reason they didn't like coming here.  But once I removed him from the equation they would no longer speak to me.  They used thier "fear" of him to "prove" that this wasn't aleintation.  But with him gone it looks exactly like what it is.  My NC kids are 14.5 adn 18 and both have admittd that they have lied to the judge, evalautors an counsleors adn therapists.  My DS says he would continue to "say whatever dad told me to say".  I am sure if that included a tale of sexual abuse he would do it as would my 14.5 year old DD.

Sometimes a cigar just ain't a cigar.  In my case I was unwilling to allow my younger kids to go without a great dad to appease a jealous, spiteful X who will never be content as long as I am alive.  Oh, and as for the DA getting involved in Liz's case- Didn't you hear about the case agaist the Duke Lacrosse players?  The DA chose to get involved in that one too and look what happened.  Its a good thing those boy's families had the money to hire high powered lawyers to protect thier children.  SOmething tells me Liz isn't in the same financial ball park.

Liz- hang in there. Listen to your gut.  And seeks upport when youneed it but perhaps don't confuse support with "advice".  
Title: You stated....
Post by: olanna on May 29, 2007, 09:39:15 AM
"Ileft my husband and met and married a man with a mental illness. My husband has biploar disorder and is a recovering alcoholic."

Why?  I really wonder about someone that would call what she is giving as "support" and blowing everyone else off just because the support comes as quite different.  And when you lead in with the fact that you met and married a mentally ill man with an addiction problem, well, I for one would be very, very cautious a at taking your so called support or advice. I don't think it shows really sound judgement to get involved with someone with all those troubles.

Isn't just being divorced enough trouble in itself?