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Main Forums => Moms Without Custody => Topic started by: Giggles on Aug 01, 2007, 01:07:21 PM

Title: Just needing some moral support...m
Post by: Giggles on Aug 01, 2007, 01:07:21 PM
My OD lives with her father in CA, I live in MD.  When X and OD (15)moved to CA he told her that if she didn't like it, that she could come back here to MD.  She's said many times that she didn't like it there but he won't let her come back.  Right now she is with me for the summer and has stated all summer that she didn't want to go back :-(  She asked me to talk to her father about her staying and I told her that she needed to be the one to talk to her father and then have him talk to me.  Did I do the right thing?  
Title: You've got mine!
Post by: brwneyedmom on Aug 02, 2007, 07:30:47 PM
And cyber hugs too((()))!
I think that you did right.  My DS went to his dad's to live when he was 14 1/2.  He wanted to go and my attorney told me that I would lose in court if we ended up there.  We mediated a one year temporary custody paper filed with the court with clear rules about returning to my home if DS wanted to leave after a year, and clear rules about staying with dad if he wanted.  
DS tried to talk to his dad about returning but his dad refused to listen.  I tried to talk to ex about DS and he refused to talk.  So since ex failed to do the parental things that were promised, I went and got DS and moved him back at semester break.
I think letting them have a conversation first is great.  Then I think that you may need to step in if your ex is as resistant as mine....And I'm pretty sure he is from your other postings.  I remember the move to CA and all the hassles that you had...and I think it's your turn to parent for a while....
Best wishes

oops: edited to add that our state is Oregon....
Title: RE: You've got mine!
Post by: jenjen on Aug 06, 2007, 03:45:15 PM
I think you should find out why the teen is wanting to leave...at that age they can become defiant and not want to follow rules...ask dad why he thinks she wants to move, check how she's doing in school? and find out if he's been having any behavioral problems with her. Then maybe try letting her live with you on a temp. bases. by the way do you pay child support?  

what is "OD"
Title: I have a feeling it's because...m
Post by: Giggles on Aug 07, 2007, 11:38:22 AM
He's a tyrant at times (one of the reasons we divorced), very controlling and emotionally cruel.  OD (older daughter) often calls me in tears over something her father has done, of course I take these calls with a grain of salt because we all know how a 15 y/o can be overly dramatic.  But there has been times where he's been extremely insensitive to her feelings and tells her "to suck it up and move on".  As for school, she is doing well in school and no real behavior problems either.  I talked with her over the summer and she would like to come stay with me because I take the time to listen to her, I treat her fairly, and I allow her to be a "kid" still.   She acknowledge that my rules are a bit stricter than her Pops, that she wouldn't have a lot of the freedom she has there (many times she is alone in the house overnight where as at my house...someone would always be home) and that she would have to help with chores.  At her father's she does all of the household chores and many of the meals...if she were to live with me, she would have to keep her room clean, some small chores (change the cat box, vacumme, and maybe watch her younger sister and brother...of which she would get paid) and help sort laundry.

I do pay support.
Title: RE: I have a feeling it's because...m
Post by: MixedBag on Aug 11, 2007, 04:20:02 PM
hugs to you and your daughter.

I know what you two are going through.
Title: Giggles...
Post by: olanna on Aug 11, 2007, 10:49:33 PM
You need to talk to your ex about her staying with you.  And may I warn you, a 15 year old changes like the weather and believe me, might be more than you bargained for....Where is she in CA? You know I am here.

My kid came out here, as you know...

and what I got dealt was more than I ever bargained for.  Talk to him, but realize she is in vacation mode right now. When rubber meets the road, the fun is over and she has to do homework, help with chores and her siblings, the song she sings could be very different.  

And I say all this with love....

(((((((Giggles)))))
Title: I know you do hon...m
Post by: Giggles on Aug 14, 2007, 07:13:20 AM
That is why I value your opinion very highly!!

I'm going to continue to insist that if she is serious about wanting to come live with me, that she needs to speak to her Father and then have him call me.  I know she can be wishy washy and that's why I have jumped the gun so to speak.

Thanks ((((Ola))))
Title: RE: I know you do hon...m
Post by: jenjen on Aug 15, 2007, 05:06:29 PM
Truth be told, if she really wanted to live with you, and being 15, all she has to do is leave and come to you if things are bad with dad. actually at that age there isnt much the courts can do but, abide by her wishes and try to make sure that this change is not going to harm her in anyway. If she came to visit you and didnt return, you couldnt physically make her return if she is determined not to go back, then the ball would be in dad's court and he would have to file court papers to try and get her back, which you would be served, and when you appear dont bring her with you and just tell the judge she doesnt want to live with dad, however if the daughter is ordered to appear then she will have the opportunity to tell the judge, lawyers and dad (he'll have to listen then) that she loves him but, would rather live with mom.
a judge will not force a 15 year old to live with a parent were the 15 does not want to live especially if the other parent is capable and willing to provide for the child, because by forcing a child at this age makes them a run away risk and no judge wants to be the cause of that.
Title: Are you serious??..m
Post by: Giggles on Aug 22, 2007, 07:05:09 AM
I'm not asking for me, but my SO....

One of the reasons I haven't pushed is because I really think my 15 y/o hems and haws.  She does want to live with me but also enjoys being the "only" child at her Father's, I have 2 others at home that are much younger than her.

Now on to info for my SO...he also has a 15 y/o that wishes to live with him..BADLY.  He just went back to the BM extremely depressed and I've been trying to find information on how my SO can get custody.  Another problem my SO faces is that BM is on the west coast and SO is here on the east coast so getting SO's son here is difficult.  We do plan on having SO's son for Christmas so I'm trying to find information on how SO can have him stay vs returning to BM...
Title: You are not accurate at all...
Post by: Sherry1 on Aug 22, 2007, 12:00:47 PM
We had to file for custody of a 15yo that did NOT want to be at his mothers, legally, she could have had DH arrested for parental kidnapping and contempt charges could have been charged. A 15yo may tell a judge where he wants to live at, but without a court order or the permission of the other party, you could find your sorry a$$ in jail for just keeping a kid.
Title: hum....don't know if I agree with that....
Post by: olanna on Aug 22, 2007, 10:58:22 PM
My own son came out here at about 15. He told his dad he was coming, I bought the ticket, my brother took him to the airport and I picked him up. My ex refused to sign custody over, but I hired an atty to stop the cs being paid to my ex since the kid was with me.

Why bother getting custody of a 15 year old kid? and no, most judges won't even get involved with a kid that old, ever.

They know that by the time the custody battle would be over, the kid could very well be 17 or 18...and it is useless.

And keep in mind, if a child is in another state, that would require extradition to the original states, and states aren't going to pay for that.

Kidnapping is taking a child, against the child's will, and holding the child in a secret spot without anyone knowing the whereabouts.  A child getting on a plane with both parents well aware of the take off and landing does not meet that requirement.
Title: I'm wondering then....m
Post by: Giggles on Aug 23, 2007, 07:09:42 AM
If SO's son (will be 15 in October) comes out for Christmas Break, calls his BM and says "Mom  I'm not coming back, I'm staying with Dad" nothing will happen?  SO is planning on filing for Custody because that's what his son wants, would it be better if that's on file first?
Title: First off,
Post by: olanna on Aug 23, 2007, 04:48:08 PM
Is Mom in agreement with it? If they can talk, then talk.  If not, this could get tricky because of school.  Now I didn't have any problem registering Dman for school, but he had already been in this district before.  Plus I had ordered his transcripts so there was no questions about it.

Wen will the kid be 16? This is some magical age for most courts and really if there is a CS order in place, he will need to prove he has the child living with him so he won't have to deal with arrears continuing to build.  If the child says he isn't going to get on the plane, not much Mom can do and the courts just won't step in.  I know it.
Title: RE: First off,
Post by: MixedBag on Aug 24, 2007, 08:30:27 AM
I agree with this -- but in my case, dad won't talk to me.  He's probably printing this off right now, but considering how beligerant he continued to be in his letters, talking for our situation was not an option.

Giggles, sent you a PM.

Have had 4 children in this boat over the years....

All of whom moved successfully.

And yes, all were a bit different in how they were handled.
Title: Unfortunately...m
Post by: Giggles on Aug 27, 2007, 07:48:33 AM
According to SO...Mom would never agree to it...she does what she can to keep David from my SO.  Even to the point of opening the letters that SO had sent to David...then either wouldn't give them to him or berated him about them.  David told SO to stop sending letters :-(

David is currently 14 and will be 15 in October.  Right now SO isn't concerned about CS.

I think one problem SO may face is the fact that the order is in VA, he lives in PA and David lives with BM in WA.  I told SO he would have to file for custody in VA but the BM could have the case moved to WA once she's been served.  I also have a feeling that if he serves her prior to christmas break, that she wont send David out....

I'll have SO check enrollment procedures for the school in his area.
Title: Got it!!...m
Post by: Giggles on Aug 27, 2007, 07:49:20 AM
Thanks!!!

I'll show what you posted to my SO and see what avenue he wants to follow!
Title: Our attorney told us that she could legally press charges regardless
Post by: Sherry1 on Aug 29, 2007, 04:08:44 PM
of the age of the child.  Kidnapping is also taking a child against the parents wishes.
Title: Believe me...if Randy could have pressed charges against me
Post by: olanna on Aug 29, 2007, 11:25:48 PM
he would have done just that.  I don't believe you can call it kidnapping when a child that is 15 or 16 refuses to go to the other parent.  Especially if the child calls and says "I am not coming back".
Title: RE: Just needing some moral support...m
Post by: I cry_ in_the_dark on Aug 31, 2007, 12:17:53 AM
Time for my 2 cents.

My children were awarded custody at the ages of 12 and 9 to dad. Neither wanted to go, neither want to be there still. That was 4 years ago. No, I was not abusive, neglectful, drug user, none of that. The COURT APPOINTED PSYCHOLOGIST advised that the children should remain with me. Simple matter of fact, dad had more money.

2 years ago, I moved a ten hour drive away.

Fast forward to now...my 16 year old daughter ran away. She immediately called me and I immediately called my sister, who picked her up. I asked her to please drive her to just outside of the town line, as I wanted the State police involved, NOT the local police (who dad has in his back pocket.)

The State Police officer that responded stated to my daughter that she was 16, she could decide where she wanted to live. My daughter's response was, "Then why did the judge tell me he would say where I live until I'm 18 years old?" The officer looked at my sister, and did not respond.

Even Soc had told me that the legal system would listen to a childs feet.

The State police took my daughter back to her dad's. Children and youth arrived. My daughter made it perfectly clear she did not want to be there. Children and youth advised my daughter that if she ran away again, she would be placed in a boot camp for delinquents. (My daughter is a straight A student and has NEVER been in any trouble.)

3 months previous to this, my X beat my son's behind with a board. Children and youth were called, photo's taken, etc. They determined the children should not return to the home. The children wanted to go to my sister's. My X did not want that. They returned to HIS home. (My sister is a regional manager Caseworker for the elderly.  Nope, she's not one of the bad-arse druggy awful persons either.)

So what it boils down to is...Life is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you are going to get.
Title: RE: Just needing some moral support...m
Post by: olanna on Aug 31, 2007, 11:46:15 PM
My kid returned home from visiting with me and told his dad three days later he didn't want to live with him anymore.  His father told him fine but he wasn't helping him do anything.  And he didn't.

I bought a ticket and my brother took him to the airport.  Dad refused to change custody without a fight, so I just hired an atty here to stop support payments from me.  I proved he was here, enrolled in school, had a family physician and that was that.  The other state stopped the order, no real point in changing custody.

And then my option was to file for support for him.  No custody needed.  He was 15 almost 16, I believe.  
Title: That's the difference...............
Post by: Kitty C. on Sep 01, 2007, 11:12:59 AM
.....between a parent who fights and a parent who won't.

ICITD, the only possible advice I could give you (or more specifically, to your daughter) is to keep trying.  Sometimes it takes a few 'events' for the powers-that-be to finally see the light and they will realize that, regardless of how much the father fights, they don't want a minor child constantly running away, WITH the distinct possibility that serious harm could come to her in one of these attempts.  Then THEIR butts would be on the line because of all the times they've sent her back to where she didn't want to be in the first place.  Just something to think about..........
Title: RE: That's the difference...............
Post by: I cry_ in_the_dark on Sep 02, 2007, 02:20:41 AM
With all due respect, I ask that you please consider your words before saying them. I begged and borrowed to the point of bankruptcy to keep my children. I am not a parent that won't, I'm a parent that can't.

That's all I'm gonna say.
Title: I believe you misunderstood her words...
Post by: olanna on Sep 02, 2007, 10:13:22 AM
What I feel she was saying is that a parent, like me, that won't fight with the other parent, and at some point is going to call the hand of the court system, will win.

I knew the court system would NOTHING to help my sorry assed ex.  He won because of money, he played me out. But his trophy jumped ship and came back to where he belonged.  To this day, he does little to nothing for any of his kids.

I am sure you have fought but next time the kid runs away, don't involve the police.  They are peace keepers, period, not civil lawyers.  Go ahead and make your child safe and keep her with you.  Let your ex try to force her back.

I'm telling you, it won't happen.
Title: RE: I believe you misunderstood her words...
Post by: I cry_ in_the_dark on Sep 02, 2007, 10:56:37 AM
There was nothing said regarding me and the other parent fighting, so I did not get that impression.

The officer that responded was, according to both my daughter and my sister, very much in favor of my daughter staying with my sister. However, he also advised my sister that had she taken my daughter to her her  home 7 miles up the road, she could have had charges brought against her. And my X would not hesitate to do that.

My friend who lives in another state, though mile-wise, very close asked her lawyer friend if my daughter could "run-away" to her house. She was told that she could be charged with custodial interference as well as "state line laws" even if my daughter walked across that state line.

So....my daughter is in fear of being sent to Boot Camp and bringing problems to those willing to help her. So she stays put.
Title: RE: I believe you misunderstood her words...
Post by: lucky on Sep 02, 2007, 03:32:21 PM
I'm in MN, and that DID happen in our case.  Dh's ex and family encouraged OSD to run away and told her that if she kept running away, the court and social services would give her back to her mom.  Please keep in mind, she'd had custody but lost it in a court battle in which we proved serious neglect in all arenas - health, education, safety, basic needs (winter clothing, food, electricity, a place to live) - they then tried the false abuse accusations and those didn't work so they went to the "run away" scenario.

Anyway, OSD did it and the ex and sister were hiding OSD.  The police told them that if they had OSD or if they knew where OSD was, but didn't give that information up, they could and WOULD be charged with custodial interference/kidnapping.  Magically, ex's parents showed up with OSD at social services the next day who promptly called dh to come and get her - despite the abuse accusations they were trying to claim.  

That night OSD ran away again - ex's family were again told there would be charges if they hid her and again, OSD magically appeared at social services with ex's parents.

OSD was then put into a correctional type group home instead of coming home (she said she'd run again) which ex successfully fought, however, her winning that battle ended up with OSD going into the foster care system for the next three years with a couple of correctional placements thrown in for good measure.  When she was finally sent home from foster care, it was to our home as, once again, the ex was homeless and couldn't even provide the basic necessities.

I'm not saying that BWB's daughter deserves to be in boot camp nor do the family members deserve to have charges brought.  Based on what BWB has said, I can't blame her daughter for running.  But the law is the law - and judges/police DO enforce it, especially if the custodial parent is pushing to have it enforced.  

In our case it WAS in OSD's best interests to live with us, not the ex and the runaway scenario backfired in the biggest sense of the word for ex as she still owes the county money for the 3 years OSD was in foster care AND she didn't get OSD and when she was homeless (about 1/2 of the 3 years) she didn't get visitation with her either.  OSD is now 21 and came home at 17.

Just be careful.  Olanna and Mixed have different outcomes, so it can happen that way.  But it doesn't always.


[em]Lucky

Lead your life so you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family parrot to the town gossip.
- Will Rogers[em]
Title: I think my ex was glad to get rid of him....
Post by: olanna on Sep 02, 2007, 08:48:13 PM
He didn't turn out to be the hater my ex wanted him to. He loved me and no matter how many bad things were said by my ex and his wife, my son never stopped loving me.

And same here.  It did turn out right for me and it has for many people, but we are also talking from east to west coast, which makes it really hard to fight.

;)
Title: Proof positive...............
Post by: Kitty C. on Sep 03, 2007, 03:19:54 PM
........that no two jurisdictions will handle the same case the same way.  As I stated before, a LOT can depend on how much the parent who currently has custody fights to bring the child back.  In Olanna's case, there was no fight whatsoever, in the OP's case it sounds like the other parent would stop at nothing to get the child back, including threatening her (even tho it came from the authorities).

I Cry in the Dark,  I meant absolutely NO offense when I made my post.  I meant that sometimes it takes a few tries to make the authorities see that nothing they do will change the mind of a determined child.  But if they and the other parent are willing to stoop to threatening with boot camp or juvenile detention, then I have nothing but distain for them and the utmost empathy for you and your child.  I can't believe that a parent would 'abuse' a child in such a way and pray that your daughter can somehow hang on to her love and determination for you, and manages to overcome this period in her life as unscathed as possible.
Title: But the difference is if you have the kid in the first place and the
Post by: Sherry1 on Sep 03, 2007, 04:06:57 PM
kid refuses to go back home.  DH had no recourse with OSS because had he went to BM's town and took him and left, then it would be considered kidnapping.