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Main Forums => Moms Without Custody => Topic started by: better2morrow on Jun 01, 2008, 06:06:20 PM

Title: Father's threat
Post by: better2morrow on Jun 01, 2008, 06:06:20 PM
I booked my sons flight to come be with me for the summer. His father calls me and threatens that he refuse to board him on the plane unless I agree to pay my sons flight back for Father's Day weekend. Now, I have no problem with my son going back to his father for that weekend to celebrate with him, but asking me to pay is ridiculous. I pay nearly $700 a month to begin with, I pay for the majority of my sons expense, I even pay for all his flights coming in with no complains... never once asked for a single penny from his father. Now my son is scheduled to come this Wednesday, what can I do to make sure my son is boarded in the flight?

OH FYI, the money I give him for child support, yah it goes out to his new motorcycle, new car, and new wife.
Title: RE: Father's threat
Post by: Kitty C. on Jun 01, 2008, 07:39:30 PM
There's no way you can guarantee that your's DS's dad will put him on the plane.  All you can do is file for contempt (and include the cost of the flight that you lost) if he doesn't.  I don't know whether it would be beneficial to tell him that, or if it would just make matters worse.  If there's nothing in your CO that allows for the Father's Day time and who pays for that transportation, then he can't hold that over your head.  But you can't do anything until 'after' the fact.

As for how he spends the CS, unless you have proof with receipts that the money is going directly to the motorcycle, car, and wife, you're just speculating. And from one who's been thru an acrmonious separation, holding on to that resentment will only hurt you in the end.  I'm sure that DH's ex thinks he should be spending a WHOLE lot more in CS, since we have a new truck (his work expense reimbursement makes the payments), new car, camper, and 2 snowmobiles.  But what she fails to realize is that I make almost as much as DH does, and I contribute almost as much to the household bills.  But my income cannot be considered in the determination of the CS he pays.
Title: RE: Father's threat
Post by: better2morrow on Jun 02, 2008, 08:14:26 AM
I'm looking at my Final Judgement where it notes the Parental Time Sharing Schedule. And it clearly states that I have my son 6pm on the last day of school, which is the 4th of June. How do I present this to my ex, stating that this is in writing from our agreement, and that he must abide by it, without causing another uproar? And what rights does he have demanding that I pay round trip tickets for his "Father's Day" weekend? And how can I make sure that if he does book it, it's not a one way ticket?

...and thank you for the time, in writing back to me, I just feel like I'm constantly being pushed up againts the wall with this guy, and it's my fault for letting him get to me. I want to be smart about this, and I want to know that I'm doing the right thing.

Thank you again.
Title: RE: Father's threat
Post by: knoot7 on Jun 02, 2008, 09:52:22 AM
How about wording it (without emotion)...

Dear Ex: After careful review of the final judgement document dated xx/xx/xxxx the shared parenting plan states is that Name of child is to spend time with name (Mother) from the last day of school at 6pm through ... xx/xx/xxxx at 12:00pm . This is the schedule set forth by the courts it is my (Mother's) obligation to follow what is documented as is.   Additionally, the final judgement does not make mention to "holidays" which would occur during this time. It is desired to communicate and work together to achieve what is in the best interest of our child. However, this would require to remain civil and discuss options without hostility or threats. It is not a desire to inappropriately utilize hostile measures or communication with regards to these situtions. Please be aware if this schedule is not maintained a case may be opened to ensure that the document is followed and to ensure our child is able to enjoy time with both parents as equally as possible.

I (Mother) would be happy to be accomodating and flexible with the schedule only if this is reciprocated thoughout the year and communication remains civil. If communication can not remain civil, please utilize a written form of communication and deliver via Fed-Ex or UPS. (Certified letters are not what they are chalked up to be- this can take months without resolution)

Good Luck!

Title: RE: Father's threat
Post by: Kitty C. on Jun 02, 2008, 10:51:39 AM
Does your CO say anything about him having your son for Father's Day, regardless of who's custody he's in at the time?  If your CO states that your ex has every Father's Day, but doesn't define how transportation would be arranged specifically for that, then you're SOL.  Transportation would then have to be agreed upon by the both of you, unless you go back to court and have it ordered.  If your CO states that you pay for all transportation regardless, I think you're SOL on that one, too.  As for if he does book a flight, it would just be a matter of calling the airline to find out if there's a return flight, but I would do that BEFORE you put the child on a plane.

Is your order somewhat new, in that this is the first summer you are doing this?  From the sound of it, it sounds like there might be some 'holes' in your final judgement regarding transportation.  And it's possible that the only way to close those holes is to go back to court for clarification.  May be pricey, but you have to weigh that against how much you might end up spending on transportation completely and over the long haul.  If you do manage to agree on trans. for this summer, who's to say the same issue won't come up again next summer, or the next?

As far as talking to your ex about it, tell him that since it's ordered that you have this time, anything he does counter to that would be considered contempt.  And if that also means you will be out the cost of the ticket (which certainly is a lot of money), you would be forced to file contempt and asking for the cost of the ticket.  You might also tell him that, if the shoe was on the other foot, you would expect him to react the same way.

Good luck with this.  We did LD parenting for about 8 years...I know how difficult and expensive it can be.  But I also know that if you can't communicate and cooperate with the other parent, it almost makes it impossible
Title: RE: Father's threat
Post by: better2morrow on Jun 02, 2008, 07:56:48 PM
yes, it states that on Mother's Day/Fathers' Day, the parent for that holiday starts 8am on Sunday, and ends Monday 8am. As far as who's responsible for the transportation/money, that's not in writing. What's SOL? I don't even know where to begin, if I don't see my son. How do I hold him in contempt? You see my first attorney screwed me, I ended up representing myself at the end, so I'm sure there could've been more things that would have protected me and ensure my exposure and time with my son. So, honestly, I don't know where to even begin and how to go about it.
Title: Is his name Randy?
Post by: olanna on Jun 03, 2008, 05:46:31 PM
Cuz he sounds an awful lot like my ex.

Is it in the court agreement that you pay the trip back for FD weekend? If it isn't...not your worry.

You might want to spend the money to have the flight stuff addressed in the order. It would save trouble later.
Title: RE: Father's threat
Post by: olanna on Jun 03, 2008, 05:47:52 PM
LOL...she can vent here. We have all been through it.

;)
Title: SOL.....
Post by: Kitty C. on Jun 03, 2008, 06:57:46 PM
Sh*t out of luck.....  :-)

For contempt, you have to go back to court.  I don't know whether you can do that without an atty.  There may be others here who could walk you through the process, but a lot will depend on your jurisdiction and how they specifically handle these types of petitions.
Title: You have to take all the relevants parts of your decree (IMHO)
Post by: MixedBag on Jun 04, 2008, 06:04:20 AM
and put them together to come up with an answer.

1.  Were you always long distance?

2.  What did you do in past years?

3.  What does the decree say for paying for transportation?

4.  If dad gets Father's Day, did YOU get Mother's Day?  And why not?  If the answer is no.

5.  What does it say for summer?

6.  Was your plan/decree (by chance) written to be "close distance" and now one of you moved far away and you're really trying to interpret close distance verbage into a long distance plan?

IMHO -- from past experience -- I wouldn't file contempt on June 5th.

If dad doesn't put the your child(ren) on the plane, I would file a "Motion for Clarification" and get some of the above questions answered so that one part of the decree doesn't conflict with another part due to geography.

Then I would switch the ticket for Monday morning as early as possible after 8 am.....and see what the judge says.

I wouldn't file for contempt -- because dad isn't CLEARLY violating the order.  I believe there are some gray areas -- which is causing the two of you to fight.

Title: Great points, MB............eom
Post by: Kitty C. on Jun 04, 2008, 10:03:54 AM
eom
Title: RE: You have to take all the relevants parts of your decree (IMHO)
Post by: better2morrow on Jun 04, 2008, 10:30:06 AM
1. He moved, since then, we've always had long distance.

2. The past years, I didn't have any problem having him, until his new wife came along, he's been very difficult.

3. There's no mention for payment in transportation, but I've been paying my son round trip ticket, and never once have I complained, as long as I had my son on my scheduled time, that's really what I cared about.

4. It was a fighting battle getting my son on Mother's Day, but I did have him and I did pay for it. He originally refused because he wanted to honor that day for his new wife... ridiculous I know.

5. It's on our Court Order that I have him 6pm the day the end of the school, until the Sunday before the School starts.

I think he is is violating because it's my scheduled time that both of us initialed, agreed and settled on.
Title: RE: You have to take all the relevants parts of your decree (IMHO)
Post by: better2morrow on Jun 04, 2008, 04:54:57 PM
Just spoke to my ex. Even offered to give in and just pay for the Father's Day weekend, he still refuses. Now he's threatening not to give my son at all. I did what I can do be accomodating, and he's saying that I'm unreasonable. I advise  him about the Final Judgement and what he & I initialed and agreed, even begged him to talk to his attorney, he just continued to scoff and taunted me to take him to court that he claims I will be paying his fees as well as mine.
Title: He can claim anything he wants to..........
Post by: Kitty C. on Jun 04, 2008, 09:09:44 PM
...........but it's not up to him whether he gets it or not.  It's ONLY up to the court.  He can ASK, but it's also possible that they may order him to pay YOUR fees.  Anything is possible.  If you do have to take him back to court on this (and it is sounding like you have to), make sure you ask for fees AND reimbursement of the costs associated with the transportation that you paid for and he failed to utilize.  That also includes any additional fees and penalties you might have to pay for any changes the airline may have charged you if you had to make any changes to the flight schedule.

The scoffing and taunting is just a ploy to get you to back down.  It's called 'intimidation'.  If you see it for what it really is, it can get easier to deal with.  But YOU have the power of the court order on your side.  Use it to your advantage.
Title: RE: He can claim anything he wants to..........
Post by: better2morrow on Jun 05, 2008, 08:45:22 AM
Can I just go grab my son and take him? Since it is my right?
Title: I wouldn't do that...m
Post by: Giggles on Jun 05, 2008, 10:09:39 AM
BUT you COULD very well drive there, go to the local police station with your COURT ORDER have them follow you to his residence and pick up your son.

The only thing is if you do this then you cannot charge him with contempt or get reimbursed for the air fair.

I would however still get a clarification.  If he moved, did you allow that move?
Title: RE: I wouldn't do that...m
Post by: knoot7 on Jun 05, 2008, 11:37:05 AM
Actually dependant on the state... law enforcement will not get involved. NY - you are SOL. They will go with you they will try but parental interference is just fine. Couldn't even file with the local enforcement on Parental interference OR contempt. Officer simply stated he coulnd't do much but file a report to document what transpired. However, he could NOT force BM to provide SS back to his father despite the CO in hand (and the CO had been this way for 13 years)! DH had to file with Family court and that was it. You may want to look into/call the local police of that town to find out more. We did.

My DH went to BM's house to pick son up on his court ordered time (mind you he had 50/50 Physical and Legal custody)... law officer wouldn't/couldn't enforce family court issues. Additionally, when he went to the judge to file contempt and parental interference..the judge looked at him and said well you only have one more day this week so what is the big deal!?

The next day DH went again (with law enforcement) and a new release order from the judge to releasae SS......SS came home with DH THIS time. BUT there is no guarantee...and BM could do as she wished.

Title: So it's beyond June 5th, what happened?
Post by: MixedBag on Jun 09, 2008, 09:25:20 AM
Grab???

and what did you do?
Title: RE: You have to take all the relevants parts of your decree (IMHO)
Post by: smcollins3 on Jun 13, 2008, 04:57:52 PM
"4. It was a fighting battle getting my son on Mother's Day,
but I did have him and I did pay for it. He originally refused
because he wanted to honor that day for his new wife...
ridiculous I know."

You might want to remind your ex that stepmothers day is the Sunday after Mother's day. This was done to accommadate the fact that stepmom's care about stepkids. (not saying all do, but I am a SM and I care, however I would never keep SD from bm on Mother's day)
Title: Re: Father's threat
Post by: mitcheli on Mar 05, 2009, 01:27:18 PM
I've had to deal with these types of psychological mind games myself. Because I didn't provide the full and proper itinerary, per my ex-wife's desire, she threatened to prevent me from picking up my children. In that incident, a call to the police was in order. Here's what I learned while dealing with issues like this.

Tentatively agree until you have your kids with you, then "Possession is 9/10's of the Law". Once your child is safe at your place, let your ex know you have no desire to pay and you await him to provide the appropriate tickets. Don't put it in writing, call on the phone. When addressing your desire not to pay, mention your support payments, lack of legal justification to make you pay, etc.

Now the other parent has two choices. 1) Buy the ticket at a premium to see their child. 2) Call the police. If the later, then calmly explain you have no desire to keep your child past the date and time in which they are supposed to return and that as long as the custodial parent provides a means of transportation, you will do nothing to interfere with your child taking that transportation. Ask the police to provide a copy of the court order mandating you provide transportation expenses, and absent one, kindly ask them to tell the custodial parent to provide transportation.

After the ordeal, expect a trip back to court. File first, because you know it'll be coming. Get a motion to Modify that clearly defines who is responsible for travel in your court order. (Research your State Law to know what to expect.)

Probably not the best approach at avoiding confrontation, but it will make sure you see your child and will shift the power back into your hands.

Good luck.
Ian.