Found out this weekend the judge ok'd the kids to move to AK. Don't know the details yet except that they can leave in 30 days.
Sorry to hear that. It is such a shame.
>Found out this weekend the judge ok'd the kids to move to AK.
> Don't know the details yet except that they can leave in 30
>days.
Oh, kitten, I'm sorry. :(
It seems like half our problems are caused by ex's, the other half by judges. :(
>It seems like half our problems are caused by ex's, the other
>half by judges. :(
And neither care about the problems they are causing the kids.
Your family will be in my thoughts and prayers. I'm really sorry to hear this.
Oh, kitten! My heart just sank when I read our post! How devastating! I will be praying for your SK's....AND for a miracle!
HOW IS DAD doing? I never had the mindset my kids were lost or gone (stolen yes). Anything stolened could/would be recovered and so they were.
Never give up hope ... for the sake of the kids.
I know the pain of loosing your child.
I am at lost for words to help ease the pain.
Your family has my sympathy, and I will keep you all in my prayers.
WTF. I blame the system, this is not right by any means.
You know you have support here, let us know if there is anything we can do...
I am soooo sorry and this is so wrong on so many levels.
My prayers are with you and will and the kids.
That just sucks. I hope to hell the judge will make mom pay all the travel expense since she is the one that moved.
Prayers for the kids, hopefully you can enjoy a good Christmas with them, and later in life you can show the kids you did everything possible for them.
((((Hugs))))
**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**
I appreciate all your help and support. I will still be here for others and we also know this is just the beginning. Dad is not doing well, I mean, how would you feel? He will need to go through a mourning period and deal with the sale of the house etc... He took the last couple of days off to let it sink in. We both broke down. My girls are devestated also.
His kids don't want to go, they have been telling him this and crying. Mom doesn't want to hear it apparently.
The bottom line is that he did right by his children by supporting her as a SAHM only to have them taken away for the same reason.
Dad is not doing well at all. He was the first to hold them when they were born, he changed diapers, fed, held, rocked to sleep, stayed up late with them when they were sick, went to almost every Dr. appt. from the time they were born. AND worked full time to support them so they could have a nice home to live in and have their Mom with them while he was gone at work. The moment he got home from work, he spent the rest of the night playing with them, bathing them, tucking them into bed and reading stories. The b!tch doesn't get it.
And in time, she will pay a very high price.
All this talk of nurturing. I feel, could be wrong, but supporting a family financially should also be included in the dictionary as nurturing. Food on the table, heat, clothes, paying the bills.
Those children will not forget their father, the more she keeps them apart, the more they will want to be with him. She may have bit off more then she can chew...
And a person like this, will never get it
"Children learn what they live"
& a lot of mine are jumbled right now. I think I would find the biggest name child psychologist around & have them spend as much time as possible between now & then in counseling.
Then, maybe, just maybe, the psychologist could support an emergency, ex-parte order either reversing or at least putting it on hold for reconsideration &/or appeal, based on the childrens pleas.
Grasping at straws? Yeah, maybe, but what the heck, you already lost.
Anyway, you are all in my prayers. There has to be an answer, somewhere. Good luck & God bless
You never get a second chance to make a first impression!
I hope that the visitation is more than adequate.
you need to work out the other details:
visitation for Dad - holidays, days off, Summer - He should get all or most of this. Also that Dad has option of going to Alaska to visit them and she must make them available with a certain amount of notice.
Who will pay transportation costs - she is moving so she should foot the bill but most likely he will pay to get and she will pay to get them back.
Phone contact - how often he should be able to call without interference from her.
I know this is hard but you will get through it. You will miss them alot but just make sure you keep in contact with them constantly. Make sure you contact their schools and have them send you copies of everything Mom gets etc.
Another to think about is how will Dad's insurance (if he covers them) cover Alaska. Will they be out of network etc. If so then maybe it should be set up that Mom has to cover them. I mean she is the one moving so she should bear some responsibility.
Also, I would look into Alaska CS guidelines b/c I can see her trying to move CS or the whole entire case to Alaska. You may want to have it written that this state retains jurisdiction over everything pertaining to the case so you don't have to go to Alaska to go to court.
I just hope she doesn't use this as an opportunity to try to start denying his time totally. I mean the distance would make the games very easy. Keep strong and firm. Don't give up on them. They may be far away but they aren't totally gone.
Wow, that is not the answer I was expecting.
So sorry for all concerned!
Kitten,
You and Will are in my prayers. I never expected this ruling in ya'lls case.
>I hope that the visitation is more than adequate.
5 weeks a year could NEVER be "adequate".
Will should get all summer, winter and spring break. It is still not adaquate, but closer then what your saying. It calculates to about 16 weeks, about 30%. Any chance of getting your attorney to jump on this?
It is reasonable considering the distance involved, would also save them some trips on the plane.
This is just so wrong, have you had the final hearing?
I'm very sorry to hear this, Kitten. I can't believe that a judge would not take her past behavior into consideration before making this ruling.
You and Will are in my thoughts and prayers.
I thought he'd get a lot more than 5 weeks. How sad. FIGHT for MORE!
PBFH handed Will a big box full of every toy he ever bought his children.
He's being erased.
I know she is not going to ever put them on a plane to visit Dad. What's he going to do from 3000 miles away with no money?
He is going to have to represent himself and learn the law and paperwork necessary to file contempt. Will the jurisdiction remain in CA? Is there a clause to protect that? He will need to file contempt every time she denies phone calls and/or visitation.
Will has to educate himself as much as possible. Stay on top of what is going on with the Father movements all over the country. Find a Legal aid siciety and volunteer. You would be surpirsed and what you can pick up working with lawyers. It would like getting free legal advice.
Suggest to the attorney to set up an e-mail address specifically for the kids and Will. This way he can have daily contact with them. Phone calls can get expensive and then make sure he also has phone contact with them. Video cams are less expensive now then what they first were.
I hope his attorney is pushing hard for more visitation. There is no reason those skids can't be with their dad all summer, Christmas break and spring break.
How did the kids react to their mother giving away their toys? I can't remember how old the kids are, but if they're old enough, they see what's going on. Their mother, excuse my french, is a total bitch. She is a complete shit for doing that.
If I understand correctly, there is a final hearing soon? Have you contacted your attorney yet? Giving back every toy that Will gave his kids is a clear indication of her intent to erase him out of his children's lives. Can this be brought up in court? Yeah I know, why bother:(
Here is a thought. Imo this move is doomed, and sooner or later PBFH will move back to familiar surroundings. It may take a year or two, but I'm betting that their marriage breaks up and she scurries home. Now I know that you all don't have any money to fly and see the kids on a half way decent basis, but you could hire a PI to keep an eye on things. When PB runs back home, you'll be ready because you'll have the information.
I guess this Christmas isn't going to be one of your best ones. I know you and Will won't give up, so at this point just gather all information as best as you can.
I hope his attorney is pushing hard for more visitation. There is no reason those skids can't be with their dad all summer, Christmas break and spring break. (/i)
I do too. The problem is the expense of airfare for all those visits. You think PB is going to chip in for the tickets? See my post below. There is hope. Btw, the email idea is a great one.
I was just going to edit my post. I give it two years at tops. She will be back crying how things did not work out.
I also agree about showing how mommy is trying to alienate those skids. Returning toys, how sick. My PBFH pulls the same shit even with clothes.
If there is anyway to show a pattern or habit of this going on for the long term, it should say something to that Judge.
I was thinking of the expense of the air fair. If Will has five weeks, how is it split up? One week at a time? My suggestion was for three trips a year, but at longer time frame for Will.
"Children learn what they live"
Does Dad have liberal visitation? I must say I am not surprised at the outcome, as there were so many factors that are stacked against your SO getting full custody.
:(
and also the state trooper that helped us this summer. Hoping he will keep an eye on the kids for us.
that she doesn't want to move anything that isn't "necessary" and she figured he would like to have them for when they visit him. I know a bunch of crap but you can come up with anything to explain something like this away. Hopefully the judge wouldn't believe it.
Now, I Will is going to have to get out of his slump and decide if he wants to fight or give up. He can do this. He can get a lot more than just 5 weeks but he has to fight for his rights. And he has to keep fighting for as long as necessary. Believe me I know how it is and it is hard on a relationship but as long as you guys stay on the same page you can do this!!! Don't put up with her crap. Keep in contact. Call, email, send letters and cards. And everytime she refuses a call or cancels and email account or sends the letters back that is just one more thing against her. Use the laws to keep access to school information and send the stamped envelops if need be. Yes it can be expensive but that is what you do to stay in your children's lives.
Scrimp and save to afford those plane tickets. If you don't try to get them when you are supposed to then he won't have a leg to stand on in court. Money won't be an excuse.
I feel for Will and you. This is going to be very long and tough but it can be done. Don't give up.
It just came to me as I was typing. Both PB and stepfather sound unstable, so this is a very real possibility. Shall we keep our fingers crossed?
Btw, I am going to be adding to my post on the Visitation Issues board. To be fair, I'm going to have to scan his reply to me onto a floppy disk over at Staples, then post it.
That's good. This way you'll know what's going on. The state trooper might be able to give you a heads up should domestic squabbles start to occur.
A 30 day stay will be filed immediately starting from day of hearing.(don't know that date yet) so this is going to be another couple months before they go. The problem with that, is that the kids are in limbo. They are so confused because she keeps telling them "two more weeks, two more weeks, by Christmas etc..." They are really suffering with the unknown.
Jurisdiction will stay here, after 6 mo. of residency there, she will try to file for custody in AK. There are other stipulations that will be requested also.
MSD is right, this won't last more than a couple years and most likely she will then run home to her mother in OR. Unfortunatly it will take something catastophic because she has invested so much in this move and new husband/Dad. Will will never stop fighting for his kids, but they also deserve some stability. We're taking this day by day, not much else we can do.
underhanded, but I would treat the return of the toys as though the issue was the added expense of moving them. Then, after they are settled a few weeks, I would send the whole box addressed to the kids.
Insure it so you have proof of shipping. Follow it with a note to the kids saying that you understand how expensive moving can be & that you are happy to help cover the cost of moving their things. Be sure that letter is sent RR.
What's the worst that can happen? She can destroy them but you can tell the kids on the phone, after you ship it, that the box is on it's way so she will have to answer to them if it doesn't show up. If she lets them have their stuff, it will be like Christmas all over again with you as Santa.
Also, make sure you send regular packages. The stuff doesn't have to be expensive & the box doesn't have to be big. Age appropriate things like comic books or hair do-dads, etc, along with some gum or candy.
Also, write at least twice a week. Fill the letters with local news & see if their old school puts out a news letter & enclose a copy so they can keep up to date on what their friends are doing.
See if the teachers they had would let the class write them a note, once in a while. Also suscribe to an age appropriate magazine for each of them. That way, every month they will receive a reminder of how important they are to you.
She can try to erase him but remember, some ink is indelible & Will & you can be too.
Good Luck & God bless. Our prayers are with you.
You never get a second chance to make a first impression!
"Children learn what they live"
really push for them to get a webcam and vice versa to visually SEE the children. Heck, I'd try to get that court ordered if possible.
Excellent ideas! I LOVE the sending the toys back one! ;)
Webcam is in the order, but Dad has to pay for it!
They have some great after Christmas sales going on.
I give it two years at tops, they will be back!
"Children learn what they live"
mail a copy of each letter to yourself. Address the back of the envelope & have the stamps overlap the edge of the flap. Do this at the post office. First get a proof of mailing for the original, (cheaper than cert or RR) & put it in with your copy of the letter. Then do the seal with stamps on the flap. That way you will have a postal seal on each letter. Only do this on the copy you are sending to yourself.
Ask the postman to hand cancel it. When the letters are delivered to you, put them in a box & save them. Do not open your copy. That way, if she doesn't give the kids their mail, you will have proof of mailing them.
This may seem like a lot of work but the postal seal holds up in court because nothing can be added to the envelope. If the kids say that they aren't getting any mail, you will have very good evidence against her.
Hmmmmm, just thinking but if you put a couple of bucks in some of them, & mention the money in the letter, Could she be charged with mail theft, too, if she doesn't give them their mail? Hehehehe.
Good luck & God bless. We are praying for you!
You never get a second chance to make a first impression!
I am so sorry that you too have had to go through this. My hubby and I were delivered the same blow this May. You see we live in NC and they moved to PA. it's not an easy transistion but if you need any help or to talk feel free to msg me or email me at
[email protected]
He gets 1 week at Christmas, 1 week for spring break and 2 weeks of June, July, and August 2005. Starting 2006, he gets 10 consecutive weeks during summer. Plane tickets to be shared equally. No order to protect children from corporal punishment because the evidence that David abused his former ss and wives was 10 years ago.
Will has to take anger management classes! I think he has managed his anger pretty well for a man that just had his children and his financial freedom taken away.
They strip a father of everything he holds dear and then sends him to anger management. WTF.
Did he get 2 weeks of each month, or 2 weeks of the entire summer?
Still say, it ain't gonna last...
"Children learn what they live"
He has a right to be angry. What's next, a lobotomy? God forbid that you cannot express righteous anger. That's just not acceptable.
Plane tickets to be shared equally.
Yeahhhh, right. Have you and Will calculated the cost of paying for these tickets?? Who gets to work the second job?
I am truly sorry for what you both are going through.
He has a right to be angry. What's next, a lobotomy? God forbid that you cannot express righteous anger. That's just not acceptable.
Plane tickets to be shared equally.
Yeahhhh, right. Have you and Will calculated the cost of paying for these tickets?? Who gets to work the second job?
I am truly sorry for what you both are going through.
>He has a right to be angry. What's next, a lobotomy? God
>forbid that you cannot express righteous anger. That's just
>not acceptable.
Yeah, if it was me...you'd be watching my trial on national tv instead of Scott Peterson's.
>
>Plane tickets to be shared equally.
>
>Yeahhhh, right. Have you and Will calculated the cost of
>paying for these tickets?? Who gets to work the second job?
Not yet. Did you notice the order states that he gets them 2 weeks in June 2005 then 2 weeks in July THEN 2 weeks in August. Let's see, that's a total of SIX flights in 3 months. Not only is that most likely monetarily impossible for us, but will be stressful for the kids.
That does seem over the top to me! That is alot of flying, and alot of money. I am sorry this happened to you 2.
>>Plane tickets to be shared equally . . .
I read that they each pay half . . . right??
So that means he flies them to you and she pays the return. That makes sense to me. What happens when she can't afford the return tickets??
And as it states 2 wks in june, july, and august. I would take the last 2 wks in june and the first 2 in july. Esencally, 4 wks in a row. That would mean less money for all.
Somehow I can't see the new husband forking out tons on plane fare if she continues to refuse to work. Can you see the fights between them about money already . . .
The Witch
Remember . . . KARMA is a Wonderful Thing!!!
10 consecutive weeks in the summer then WTF is 2 weeks in June, 2 weeks in July 2 weeks in August, (that doesn't sound like 10 CONSECUTIVE weeks to me) that would mean a ton of airtime and money. What a bunch of BS.
I am truely sorry Kitten for what you Will and the kids are and will continue to go thru.
Anger management, hell I would be angry too if my kids were taken from me.
Hugs to you and the family.
**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**
for 2005 -- he gets them 2 weeks each month. I bet the order doesn't give start and end dates (like the FIRST two weeks of the month)....and yes, that will cause arguments.
I like the suggestion of connecting at least two of the months....and EX might actually agree since it will save her money too.
For 2006, he actually gets MORE time and in one block.
Again, any start and end dates? At all????
Start budgeting and saving NOW....and make it happen, period.
MAKE it a priority.....
Actually start figuring out who does cheap one-way tickets.....like Independent Air, and Air Tran, and maybe even Jet Blue.....though I don't think they cover the state you need. But you get the idea.
Shop NOW and start working on it NOW....flights will be cheaper.
And you know, I wouldn't make a big deal about the anger management classes.....don't let her win on that issue -- do it, get it done. I know someone who went to one and she walked in and said "I have no clue why I'm here -- this is what happened" and it was no big deal.
Actually it shows that you're (or he's) willing to do whatever it takes to be a DAD to his kids no matter what gets thrown at him.....
Oh yea, maybe you two could go "there" for two weeks and make a vacation out of it.....???? Careful planning....might be a possibility????
Coming from the BTDT NCP BM and NCP BD.....yep, we get it from both our EXs.....
The next hurdle will be to convince the CP to put the kids on the plane, period.
BOTH of ours give us a hard time -- it's almost like clockwork, totally predictable.
They want to dictate and we (in both our cases) foot the entire bill....
Ah but yes, the CP will be paying half....so she might actually cooperate (in her best interest too to keep the costs DOWN)....
DH might want to even consider going to GET the kids himself......I know expenses, but after not getting to see them for SOOO long, something he might want to consider.
DH's EX is "in trouble" right now for pulling these stunts with Dad by not sending SS when she's supposed to. My EX -- well, he hemmed, hollerred, wrote nasty letters, BUT he did put our son on the plane this year.
Just a prediction and most of all -- good luck!
You can PM me the two major cities (if you'd like) and maybe I can help figure out reasonable cheap transportation options....
Yes I did notice what the order stated. What kind of drugs is this judge on, anyway?
Request the visit cover 4 weeks during the summer. Be prepared to pay the whole damn airfare, though. Of course, little miss game player will yank your chain on this. Sorry to be negative, one can only hope that this will work out until you have another avenue to pursue.
I think I know your frustration level at this point. You can't negotiate with a terrorist.....
I understand you mean well, but SS's mom did this after she relinqueshed custody in Sept of this year.
The counselor that he was going to stated that it was not in the kids best interest and that mom was being detrimental to his mental health. Mom is now restricted in her phone conversations and postal mail. All must be monitored.
Be careful! Do send the pictures and packages though