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Main Forums => Child Support Issues => Topic started by: LESLIEONE1 on Oct 04, 2004, 06:38:43 AM

Title: can child support be denied
Post by: LESLIEONE1 on Oct 04, 2004, 06:38:43 AM
long story, i am mother kids 13 and 16 wanted to live with dad, judge granted physical custody to dad, still have 50/50 custody but I have visitation. Ex makes 75% more a month then I do. I am required to pay support to him, which I work 2 jobs now and will be unable to pay support to father. Can you go to court to fight having to pay support? I will have to sell my home just to justify not receiving child support from father..pervious we had 50/50 week with dad, week with mom. Dad paid support to mother based on his income being much higher.  Is there any justice to wanting to be a good mom?
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: Kitty C. on Oct 04, 2004, 08:24:56 AM
Sorry, but if your ex has primary custody, you still have a financial responsibility to your children, regardless of the income of your ex or the amount of the CS you are required to pay.  There are NCP's who are paying thru the nose in CS for exes who have 'married up' and not working because their new spouse makes more than enough for all of them.  Is it fair?  No, but it doesn't change the fact that BOTH parents are financially responsible to their children, in some way, shape, or form.
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: jilly on Oct 04, 2004, 08:58:05 AM
If the shoe was on the other foot and you had physical custody, made 75% more than your ex and he was required to pay you child support but he would be put in a financial bind to pay it I bet you'd be fighting mad if he fought having to pay it.  After all...that would be YOUR money. Ya can't have it both ways honey.
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: LESLIEONE1 on Oct 04, 2004, 12:27:46 PM
First of all, I dont have it both ways HONEY as you put it. I wanted my kids, i have gone into debt for my kids. I fought for my kids with everything I have, so its not all about the money. Do you go on welfare to pay child support? I am having to sell my home, I already work a full time and a part time job...ex makes75% more money then I do. If I had the kids and made 75% more moneythen my ex  I would not want a dime from him because I would be financially capable of paying for my children without any help from him. I am not cold hearted and I am not about the money, he took my kids away from me emotionally and physically he got what he wanted, I am left with nothing and now I have to work another job to pay him for what????  So both ways honey, you are terribly wrong.
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: Kitty C. on Oct 04, 2004, 12:56:52 PM
So why did you post the question in the first place?  Just to be a $hit disturber?  YOU are terribly wrong if you think that, just because of your current situation, you are NOT financially responsible to your children.

And I can't tell you how many times I've heard that tired refrain.....'If I had the kids and made 75% more money then my ex I would not want a dime from him because I would be financially capable of paying for my children without any help from him.'...........only to have that parent turn around and squeeze every penny in support from the ex-spouse that they legally can.  The view is COMPLETELY different, depending on whether you're on the giving end....or the receiving end.

There are TOO MANY NCP's out there who are working 2, 3, and 4 jobs just to make ends meet, which leaves them NO time to see their children.  Their licenses are confiscated, their homes taken away from them, they're forced to file bankruptcy, all for outrageous CS awards.  So let me ask you this:  how would you feel if your ex had married a career woman and he was able to stay at home with the kids?  His income would be ZERO and you can't use hers.  Is that fair?  No, it's STILL his responsibility, as much as yours, to financially support the kids...but it happens every day.

If you don't like the system, talk to your congressman.  Till you get changes on the legislative level, suck it up and PAY, just like everyone else does.
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: LESLIEONE1 on Oct 04, 2004, 01:16:20 PM
You obviously dont know me or my situation. I can only speak for myself and what I would do, all I care about is my children, im not after blood from him nor would i expect the same in return.  Too many cases are just numbers and the real issues the children are lost in the "court system laws" I want to see my kids, I do without to see my kids. I am one of few so you can spout out all you want, telling me to suck it up and PAY...you dont know me you dont know my situation you are just too concerned with issues of dead beat parents, That I am not!!
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: Kitty C. on Oct 04, 2004, 01:54:41 PM
Then maybe you can answer me this question, cuz I  haven't been able to find one yet:  why is it that only MOTHERS have a problem with paying support?  They're there with their hands out, ready and willing to take any and all that the courts will grant them, but when the tables are turned, they're affronted that they are expected to pay.

Yes, every situation IS different, because we're talking about HUMAN NATURE here.....nothing is ever black and white.  But the bottom line, whether it's $1 or $1000 a month, an NCP is just as financially responsible to their children as the CP.  Given that your ex makes 75% more than you, your CS should be considerably lower, but there's NO way that you should be off the hook completely.  That's an insult to every other faithfully paying NCP...........
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: MixedBag on Oct 04, 2004, 04:10:38 PM
Leslie,

Go to your state's on-line calculator and plug in the numbers.

Does your state take into consideration 50/50 placement in terms of TIME?????

Some states do, some don't.....do some research on-line since you don't mention the state.

I know that the CA calculator takes all that into consideration.

Play around with a few different states to see how they work their CS.

NV uses only the NCP's income.....doesn't CARE what the CP makes.

WV uses both parent's income....

Then the state has a threshold for using the "sole" worksheet vs. the "joint" worksheet -- based on TIME with the kids.

Title: www.supportguidelines.com
Post by: MixedBag on Oct 04, 2004, 04:16:48 PM
I just crunched some numbers as examples to see the differences in a few states, you need to crunch your own.
Title: Leslie
Post by: nosonew on Oct 04, 2004, 06:29:00 PM
Anyone designated the ncp has to pay child support.  Given that the kids are with you half the time, likely it is a 51/49% split which gives  him physical custody...perhaps you can ask him if he would not make you pay, or at least lower the amount via the court?  If you do make an agreement, it MUST go through the court.  This is just a cya thing for the future.  

If you aren't able to get him to do this, I am sorry to say, you will be like 99% of the ncp's on this board who have to struggle to pay c.s. that is unfair.  Sorry this is happening to you, but on the upside, the 16 year old turns 18 in a couple of years, which should decrease the burden some....
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: POC on Oct 04, 2004, 06:47:29 PM
Leslie,

Unfortunately, you will find few friends. I say that because CP moms do not want to give up what they are already getting. Others view your circumstances as an unusual opportunity to show how the shoe is on the other foot. Many take pride in asking, how does it feel? Well, I don't.

You did not say what state you are in. But, it is likely that your kids' child support is based upon parental tobacco and alcohol consumption. It has nothing to do with the needs of your children. Others have mentioned that both parents should share the duty to provide for children. But, child support places primary importance on parental labels, not needs of children.

Child support guidelines should seamlessly proportion an equitable amount of money for children's needs across the time sharing and parentla income distributions that are reality in today's society. I'd be happy to elaborate if you would like.
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: POC on Oct 04, 2004, 06:55:40 PM
Kind of like telling Rosa Parks to suck it up until she got changes at the legislative level. The fact that it is a woman getting screwed over in this situation ardly makes it any better. Incidentally, almost every step forward on this issue in court has the woman as the NCP.
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: true on Oct 04, 2004, 09:37:58 PM
Well hey there,

I am the cp. Alot that does me. At this point in time. The current order has been reduced to 17.36 per week. For the last ten years it has been set at $133.00 per week. I have not asked for an increase over this time period nor have I ever asked for a "review".  At this point in time I have just recieved another court statement stating that the new child support will now be $17.36 per week. Okie dokie thrilled, not really, more like Surprised actually. I called the 1800 number since we are now six weeks plus in arrears for the $17.36 per week. I am curious a curious CP wondering what is going on now. According to the computer generated response for the month of August there is no information to give nor is there any information to give for September. Wow and amazing I knew that myself they just confirmed it for me.
I am so tired of the "battle" to just get along that fighting for money to support my kids needs and wants has now left me baffled. No biggie that one wants to play in the band and needs an instrument. I should just sign another contract considering the oldest plays and instrument too. Say, 17 dollars a week doesnt even cover the cost of school lunches. One doctors visit under my insurance because his insurance doesnt cover office visists and I am considered primary on insurance due to having an earlier birthday month. I was born in Feb he was born in Oct. I hope they dont happen to catch say "strep throat" or the common cold my copay is set at $20.00 per office visit, not including a potential perscription. Wow, I am so thrilled that he can help with the cost of a medical office visit.
The court over the past ten years has been pro the ex so as usual its a just deal with it.

I understand that I am one of the "few" CP that has this situation, yet over the years, most people find it surprising that I am the CP with my kids they say I sound more like the NCP.

Sorry for the rant, but I am too tired of life with the ex.

true
Title: RE: www.supportguidelines.com
Post by: LESLIEONE1 on Oct 05, 2004, 05:50:46 AM
Thank you for a non-harsh reply. I would have no problem paying support for my kids sake, but if everyone that only wants to make jabs at me knew my story completely there attitudes would not be so harsh. I work 40 hours a week at one job and 20 at another, I do not live higher than my means.  when we had 50/50 joint visitation, my ex would pay his support on the very last day possible, he knew how to work the system, it wasnt because he didnt have the money, he just wanted me to have to suffer. I am one of the few women that used support for that, support of my kids, which some people here should realize, support is house, electric, food, clothing. Thank u for your reply. By the way I live in NC and its based on his income vs. mine.
Title: RE: Leslie
Post by: LESLIEONE1 on Oct 05, 2004, 05:52:42 AM
we have joint custody but he has primary physical which means they live most of time with him and visitation with me. I appreciate your reply.
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: LESLIEONE1 on Oct 05, 2004, 06:04:21 AM
I can only speak for my situation. If I was financially capable of paying support I would be happy to . I work 2 jobs, will sell my home. When we divorced I had full physical custody, had to take him to court to pay support, he still made sure he would pay it on the 21st day, (21 days late) they set up a court order to appear) He did this for 2 years, every month, not because he didnt have the money, but he just wanted to make it difficut for me. My child support went towards house payment, food, clothing, electric, school lunches.  So I can honestly say in my case The mother is not trying for a free ride.  My ex makes over 100,000 a year I make 80% less... Your opinion is your opinion I dont agree.
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: reagantrooper on Oct 05, 2004, 06:05:51 AM
Well dispite of your sex I will post the same reply as I have to other NCP.

PAY, PAY, PAY AND KEEP ON PAYING YOUR X SUPPORT, OOPS I MEN CHILD SUPPORT?

Afterall how will your x be able to buy his/ her bon bons, new house, new car ETC ETC ETC? Untill the laws are changed thats the way it is for us NCP.

GOOD LUCK TO YA.
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: jilly on Oct 05, 2004, 06:21:05 AM
SUGAR...I think you DO want it both ways.
As you can see you won't get any sympathy from me because I've been living with having to do without for the past 4 years so stop whining. Interesting that we both live in the great State of NC. LOL
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: POC on Oct 05, 2004, 06:50:22 AM
It is likely that you have legitimate issues. But, when you only give bits and pieces of the scenario, it impossible for anyone to make a reasonable opinion about the matter. If you want others to make an reasonable opinion about your particular situation in regards to child support, then you need to provide:

1) How much you make.
2) How much he makes.
3) How much time the child spends with you.
4) how much time the child spends with him.
5) How much time was sought by each parent to bewith the child.
6) Whether there were findings of wrong-doing by the court that weighed into its decision to grant custodial parenting status over the other parent. If so, what those reasons were.

I can think of lots of instances where $17 per week in child support would an equitable child support award.
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: POC on Oct 05, 2004, 07:05:01 AM
Equitable child support laws do not need to know who is CP or NCP. Child support should account for the needs of the child, regardless of which parent the child happens to be with at any given time. CS should equitably provide for both the fixed costs and variable costs with each parent. If he makes 5/6 of the joint income he should be responsible for providing for 5/6 of the reasonable needs of the children at each home. If you make 1/6 of the joint income you should be responsible for providing for 1/6 of the reasonable needs of the children at each home.

It should have been that way when you were CP too. Unfortunately, child support only provides for the needs of children while they are with their CP. Child support leaves children to go naked, hungry and homeless if they are to spend any time with their NCP. I am sure that was hard to understand up until you became a NCP.
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: wendl on Oct 05, 2004, 07:06:08 AM
Welcome to the wonderful life of being a ncp.

On that note, when was your last cs order done, was it based when you made more $ and did you show proof of what you make??

If you income has reduced since you last cs order, then file a modification in court or go find a cs calculator to see if based on  your income it would reduce.

Also even if you cannot afford the entire cs amount each month and if they are not garnishing your check, try to pay what you can, many ncp can't afford their current support order and they attempt to pay what they can, others live off of mac and cheese in order to pay support.

It sucks how they determine how much you need to pay for support, many here are in the same situation.


Title: RE: www.supportguidelines.com
Post by: Kitty C. on Oct 05, 2004, 08:11:18 AM
Maybe the reason why I can't take you seriously is because this same story has been told too many times to count by other NCP's........mainly FATHERS.

MB gave good advice.....get on your system and crunch the numbers.  So you're working 2 jobs.........that's common for NCP's.  DH does it as well.  He works for a railroad and is gone ALL week, just to come home and work practically all weekend at a friend's shop.  The last time we went ANYWHERE was our 5 day camping vacation back in July......before that, I can't remember.

DH had to give up or sell many things when he got divorced.  Including a classic muscle car that would be worth $70-80,000 today.   I have yet to hear of an NCP that doesn't have to.  What I'm saying is that your story is NOT so different from many others.  But they pay because they know it's their financial RESPONSIBILITY.  And it's yours, too.
Title: RE: www.supportguidelines.com
Post by: POC on Oct 05, 2004, 02:03:50 PM
Please show evidence that child support is based more upon the needs of children than it is upon expenditures for parents.

Parents pay child support to keep from going to jail. It is not because that money could not be better spent to provide for the needs of their children while they are in their care. Child support leaves kids to go naked, hungry and homeless if they are to spend time with NCP's.
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: Peanutsdad on Oct 05, 2004, 03:21:11 PM
Ive been the NCP AND now the CP.


I find it truly amusing that I was immediately threatened with consequences if I didnt pony up. I was never late and paid my cs on time, despite what it did to me and my family financially.

My ex on the other hand, has never paid despite a co to pay. She's still running around free as a lark... hmmmm.


As for the original poster, you DO have my sympathy. However, you recieved,, now you pay. Sorry,, that's the current system, and the system you were ok with til you had to pay.

Perhaps you may find time to help legislators see that it needs to change, because, under the current system, you have no choice.
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: LESLIEONE1 on Oct 06, 2004, 06:04:00 AM
Its not a matter of wanting to pay or not wanting to pay, its a matter of being financially able to pay.  I already work a full time and part time job. In NC the guidelines are different I coud have to pay him up to $400 per month, based on his income of over $100.000 per year and mine under $30,000. I have already increased my hours on my second job and will have to sell my house and move into an apt. So don't get me confused with a "Dead beat parent". As far as "you received" as you put it, I received nothing but had everything taken away most importantly the time with my children.
Title: In Your Own Words
Post by: jilly on Oct 06, 2004, 06:50:16 AM
Direct Quote from YOU.

"Can you go to court to fight having to pay support? I will have to sell my home just to justify not receiving child support from father..."

So don't tell me it's not a matter or wanting to pay or not wanting to pay. Go sell that bullsh** somewhere else. It was all hunky dory when you were receiving child support. Now that you have to pay it you're crying "Oh woe is me! I don't make enough money to pay child support so I shouldn't have to pay it!"  Well guess what...there are alot of non-custodial fathers out there who don't make enough money to pay the exorbitant amount of child support that is ordered and THEY still have to pay it. And I can assure you, if you were a non-custodial father and posted about getting out of paying child support you'd still get ripped a new one.
I'm in NC as well so I know what the guidelines are and they suck. Maybe you should go for that 3rd job.
Title: RE: In Your Own Words
Post by: LESLIEONE1 on Oct 06, 2004, 07:27:19 AM
maybe you should get a life!
Title: Leslie,
Post by: MixedBag on Oct 06, 2004, 07:46:34 AM
O.K., let me try one more time....to calm this thread down and I think maybe I can explain...

When you titled your thread and used the word "DENY" -- that hits a nerve with folks, period.  I'm gonna bet and say that you didn't toally mean it that way.

When you complain about the stuff that you did, that's quite normal too for any NCP....only you're a mom, and most folks here are either dads or SM's trying to help Dads who have been hit unfairly by the system.

I'm picking up that you understand that you have an obligation to support your two boys.  HOW their dad got custody still sits badly with you (and I think that most people would agree with that)....but that you have an obligation you understand.

You also feel that your obligation is set too high for you -- and I suggested that you crunch some numbers on the on-line calculators to see where you stand.  

Will NC use your second job in the formula?  Or will they stick to your first 40hr/week job?  You gotta do that research yourself.

Then come back and post the results....

Could it be that once the boys decided to go to dad's, that you have to plain adjust your overall budget and this is the major 'cause of what's going on?

For example, DH pays $500/month in CS for his son.  If he (or I should say WHEN) gets custody, Mom will have to pay $500 per month.  (I know that for a fact from previous orders where the CS was "offset" for two children as being equal).  So in reality that's a $1000 per month swing to the CP.....and "custody of the child" becomes equated to $1000/month.  If BM has to suck up that shift in income, surely that's gonna make her think twice about her financial situation.  That's a lot of money!  (at least in our book).

Is that what happened to you?  You based your life on having that CS as income and now that income is gone and you have to pay?
Title: RE: Leslie,
Post by: jilly on Oct 06, 2004, 09:02:20 AM
Self-Support Reserve; Obligors With Low Incomes

The Guidelines include a self-support reserve that ensures that obligors have sufficient income to maintain a minimum standard of living based on the 2002 federal poverty level for one person ($738.00 net per month). For obligors with an adjusted gross income of less than $800, the Guidelines require, absent a deviation, the establishment of a minimum support order ($50). For obligors with adjusted gross incomes above $800, the Schedule of Basic Support Obligations incorporates a further adjustment to maintain the self-support reserve for the obligor.

If the obligor's adjusted gross income falls within the shaded area of the Schedule and Worksheet A is used, the basic child support obligation and the obligor's total child support obligation are computed using only the obligor's income. In these cases, childcare and health insurance premiums should not be used to calculate the child support obligation.  However, payment of these costs by either parent may be a basis for deviation.  This approach prevents disproportionate increases in the child support obligation with moderate increases in income and protects the integrity of the self-support reserve.  In all other cases, the basic child support obligation is computed using the combined adjusted gross incomes of both parents.

Determination of Support In Cases Involving High Combined Incomes

In cases in which the parents' combined adjusted gross income is more than $20,000 per month ($240,000 per year), the supporting parent's basic child support obligation cannot be determined by using the child support schedule.

In cases in which the parents' combined income is above $20,000 per month, the court should, on a case by case basis, consider the reasonable needs of the children and the relative ability of each parent to provide support.  The schedule of basic child support may be of assistance to the court in determining a minimal level of child support.

Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: momof2 on Oct 06, 2004, 09:38:06 AM
Leslie,

It sounds as if while you were receiving child support from your EX, when you were the CP, you bought a house that you could only pay the mortgage because of the amount of child support you were receiving.  Unfortunately you have learned a tough lesson, never base your mortgage or other large living expenses on the assumption of receiving child support, because as you have found out, that can quickly change.

It stands to reason that if you were living in a home that you were only able to afford due to receiving child support, that you will now have to sell that home, due to no longer receiving child support.  

Your the NCP now, and regardless of what the CP's income is, you still have an obligation to contribute to the financial support of your children.  Your child support should take into consideration that you make $30k or less a year, and yes, you may have to adjust your lifestyle to accomodate that.  NCP's live with that every day.

My advice is to sell that home ASAP, find a less expensive place to live, and learn to live on what is left of your income after you pay child support.  

Good luck!
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: raf on Oct 06, 2004, 11:02:11 AM
According to the NC CS calculator you would have to pay $343.55/mth in CS.
That is based on the info where you said the CP makes $100,000 and you make $30,000.

Are you saying that the rest of your expenses are so great that you can't pay the $343.55?

Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: LESLIEONE1 on Oct 06, 2004, 11:15:34 AM
well i bought a house to keep my kids in the school district. monthy payment 1000 add car payment 279 very minimal credit cards about 50 per month, food, elect, phone..I do not live or should I say have not been living out of my means.  I depended o child support when i bought my house as ex had not had given any indication he would try to get physical custody.
Title: those are my assumptions (too)...
Post by: MixedBag on Oct 06, 2004, 01:23:11 PM
I'm hoping she comes back and explains and hasn't been scared away.
Title: Bingo!
Post by: MixedBag on Oct 06, 2004, 01:25:21 PM
take a look at my post....

and now readjust your life as the cards have been dealt
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: Peanutsdad on Oct 06, 2004, 02:46:07 PM
Like you, I had a mortgage, a car payment, cs and an attorney to pay,,,,, it came out I could pay the car payment or the attorney.

I let the car go. I drive a 20 yr old car now. It's ugly, but it runs and it starts every time I get in it.


So, it's not a matter of you CANT pay, it's  a matter of you dont want to cut your expenses.
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: POC on Oct 06, 2004, 07:44:13 PM
It's unfortunate that so many are ripping Leslie for saying the very things that male NCP's say on these boards every day. The guidelines are not in the best interests of children. In fact they are based upon tobacco and alcohold consumption - hardly needs of children.

The fact that she is a female NCP does not make what she is saying any less right. Showing vindictive attitudes on this issue serves about as much purpose of person in the holocaust badgering a German who is heading for the gas chamber too. Even if that German had previously profited from in some way, there is no good to come to other holocaust victims by the death of another.

Hopefully justice will find its way to Leslie while she is a NCP. If so, it will be a benefit to all kids.
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: Peanutsdad on Oct 06, 2004, 08:44:17 PM
POC,


I'm not ripping her, I'm simply saying, she was ok with the system when she was RECIEVING cs, but now that she has to pay,, there's a problem.

I too had to shoulder a cs burden that decimated me financially, and I had to make choices.

Her query is if there is any way to get out of this,,, essentially, no, there isnt.

Is it legal what the states do? Technically, yes it is. Is it constitutional? Technically, until it's judged unconstitutional, yes it is.

Is it right? Hell no.


Do I empathize with her? Yes I do, I've BTDT and suffered for it. But as to any way out of it?? Sincerely doubt it.
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: Peanutsdad on Oct 06, 2004, 08:44:54 PM
POC,


I'm not ripping her, I'm simply saying, she was ok with the system when she was RECIEVING cs, but now that she has to pay,, there's a problem.

I too had to shoulder a cs burden that decimated me financially, and I had to make choices.

Her query is if there is any way to get out of this,,, essentially, no, there isnt.

Is it legal what the states do? Technically, yes it is. Is it constitutional? Technically, until it's judged unconstitutional, yes it is.

Is it right? Hell no.


Do I empathize with her? Yes I do, I've BTDT and suffered for it. But as to any way out of it?? Sincerely doubt it.
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: jilly on Oct 07, 2004, 07:33:21 AM
I agree with what PD said...it's not because she's female and is now having to pay child support. It's because her initial post (and subsequent posts) have all been about how she can't maintain her standard of living because she now has to pay child support instead of receiving it and she wants to know if there's a way she can stop paying child support because she can't afford to pay it. She's paying $1,000/month for a house, which she bought because she was receiving child support at the time she bought it. Now that she has to pay child support she can't afford the house.
I think everyone here can empathize with the fact that when you have to pay child support it puts a serious strain on your finances because what is brought home isn't enough to pay what's going out. That's how the guidelines are set up and it sucks.
As for nobody ripping into a non-custodial father for saying the very things that Leslie is saying...that's not true.  A few months ago there was a poster (male - NCP) who was asking about information he thought he'd seen on this board about a book that told you how to get out of paying child support. He was quickly torn to shreds for trying to find a way to get out of his legal and moral responsibility to his children. That's what's happening with Leslie.
Title: Let me clear the "deny" part of this post
Post by: LESLIEONE1 on Oct 07, 2004, 12:48:14 PM
Ok, first of all this was my very first post to SPARC. I came here for support, opinions, understanding, and hopefully to share and receive from others that have been through the same kind of situation.  I certainly did not plan on getting "crucefied" so to speak.  All I have done from the day of my divorce was what was best for my kids.  Yes I purchased a home that I would not have been able to afford with out CS.  But I downsized more than half of what I had and I purchased a home to keep my children in the school district that they were attending, as this was important to them and myself.  At the time of divorce I was only employed part time so that I could be home when my kids got home from school, as there father has a job that he goes out of town weekly and home late.  I had full physical custody of my kids, and everyone was ok, ex never indicated that a year later he would try to get custody. By that time I had already purchased my home. We went to court and CS was cut in half due to 50/50 week with me, week with day. So I worked full time and got a second part time job. Only working the 2nd job when the kids were at their dads.  Yes a mistake to depend on CS, but too late now.  I do not have a high standard of living, I have a home, no credit cards and a old vehicle to drive. I did not sit around and eat bon bons living off CS.

My post was intened to mean can EX say he doesn't want it? Yes I know the law and the requirements of child support especially here in NC.  Some have said you might have to pay $17 per week, ok that would be fine, but in NC  my requirements would be more around $400. no where close to $17 per week.  I never received alimony, partly because I had a bad attorney, too late for that now, I never asked for more money from ex. What kind of a parent can you be if you can not even offer a home to your children, or your working non-stop to pay CS to someone that doesnt need it and very little time to spend with your children? I was never crying for sympathy, thank God because this was not the place for that or understanding.  

Bottom line, EVERYONES situation is different and you truly cannot judge my situation unless you knew every detail in it. The emotional part, the bitterness, the unforgiving, we all have our own stories and situations. Its too bad that my first time here has been so unpleasant. I thought this was a different kind of place, obviously its not!
Title: RE: Let me clear the
Post by: Kitty C. on Oct 07, 2004, 02:01:39 PM
Can your ex ask for NO CS???  Sure, he can.....but that doesn't mean the courts will go along with it.  It's happened before........parents agree that no CS should change hands, thereby deviating from the established state guidelines. Only to have the courts rule otherwise.

There's another thing you fail to realize.  States get money from the feds for every dollar they collect in CS.  You think they want to give that up if they've got the chance???  Hell no!

Sure, every situation is different, but there also are a LOT of similarities.  So let me ask you this:  if you and your ex were still together, happily married, had purchased this home based on a good job that one of you got, then a couple years later got laid off from (and now not able to afford the home), would you sell and downsize into something you COULD afford?  Think about it.........

Everyone will go thru some life event that will cause them to re-evaluate how they live.  It happened to my own family and myself.  That's life and you ADJUST.  We/I have gone from well off to scraping by to comfortable to one step from homelessness to getting by to just barely comfortable.  Things have had to be bought and sold throughout those cycles in order to get by.  THAT'S LIFE.
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: POC on Oct 07, 2004, 02:33:17 PM
What is so moraly defensible about a system which is based upon the tobacco and alcohol consumption of parents?
Title: POC,, and Leslie
Post by: Peanutsdad on Oct 07, 2004, 03:10:08 PM
ROFL!!!


The system is not morally defensible, it's an abomination.


YET..... it IS currently the law of the land, and I am fairly certain not laws that ncp's pushed for.


I have often said,, the current laws will not change until just as many moms are ncp as dads.

Womens political power has been used over the last 100 years to effect many of the changes within this country.




Leslie, as to your question whether a no cs order can be agreed to,,, most jurisdictions have done away with that  in the last couple of years. What you CAN do with agreement with your ex, is pay the cs, and he in turn returns it to you. There is nothing preventing him to do what he wishes with the money,, including giving it back to you.
Title: RE: POC,, and Leslie
Post by: POC on Oct 07, 2004, 03:46:19 PM
Exactly PD, that's why no one should be insinuating that Leslie is somehow trying to shirk financial responsibility. If there is no moraly defensible basis to the child support guidelines, you can't fault people for not wanting to pay it. Kids would be far better off if parents were left to determine what and how much to spend on their kids, rather than big brother.
Title: RE: POC,, and Leslie
Post by: Peanutsdad on Oct 07, 2004, 04:14:50 PM
POC,


That isnt my point at all. Leslie was perfectly ok with the current system when she was collecting. Her dismay with the system didnt come until she was the one being extorted.

Be that as it may, I did offer her a solution that satisfies the legal requirements of her cs order.


Until the laws change,, what we think is right or wrong is immaterial. It's what we have to work within.
Title: RE: POC,, and Leslie
Post by: POC on Oct 07, 2004, 06:18:58 PM
Yes, I understand that is your point. I've always focused on the big picture, rather than individual situations. The fact that she may have benefited from the system in the past does not change the fact that it was wrong then, and is still wrong now. But, so far in this thread, everyone's focus has been about her and her ex. Meanwhile, the proportionment of child support funds would have left the kids to go naked, hungry and homeless at the NCP home, if not for the NCP coming up with other means than what the CS guidelines account for.

Regardless of ill feelings toward Leslie for what ever may have been wrong in the past, it is inexcusable to short-change her kids while they are at NCP homes.
Title: RE: POC,, and Leslie
Post by: Peanutsdad on Oct 08, 2004, 03:43:51 AM
See thats the point POC,, she saw nothing wrong with the system when she benefited from it.


You are preaching to the choir friend;)  

Every NCP out there knows the system is wrong, unfortunately, MOST CP's and just as importantly, most politicians DONT. And just who are most of the cp's?

Until enough get to experience the ncp way of life, it wont change .

Title: RE: POC,, and Leslie
Post by: POC on Oct 08, 2004, 05:14:32 AM
PD,

What's happening to NCP's, and more importantly their children, is not a whole lot different than being told to get in the back of the bus. But, I don't think Rosa Parks chastised the white folks who were willing to march with her for equality. Many of those white folks has been allowed to sit in the front of the bus.

In the context of post divorce parenting, Leslie had been allowed to sit in the front of the government's bus. Now, she's been given a different label and is being told to get in the back of the bus. All I'm saying is let's not focus on what may have been wrong before when she is entering a scary new chapter in her life. Obviously, she is becoming acutely aware of issues that she had never been forced to consider before. Like it or not, she is now one of us.

If we all don't hang together, we will surely hang separately - Ben Franklin
Title: RE: Let me clear the
Post by: sweetnsad on Oct 08, 2004, 06:26:40 AM
<
Welcome to the club.....that's the life of an NCP.  

My fiance lives with this everyday....he pays through the nose and spends very little time with the children because of it.   That's the way it goes.  Also, CS isn't for your ex husband....it's for your children.  And yes, they damn well deserve every penny.  

Title: RE: POC,, and Leslie
Post by: LESLIEONE1 on Oct 08, 2004, 07:00:15 AM
POC,
Thank you for your sincere replies. Nice to know at least one person understands I am not trying to "buck" the system. I can't change the opinion's of others. I just want to be a good mom.
Title: RE: Let me clear the
Post by: POC on Oct 08, 2004, 07:16:27 AM
CS isnt' for her children. It is to restore her ex husband to his level of tobacco and alcohol consumption before they had kids. They don't deserve one of those beers or cigarettes.
Title: RE: POC,, and Leslie
Post by: Peanutsdad on Oct 08, 2004, 08:01:01 AM
Leslie, I dont want you to get the wrong impression. I DO empathize,, btdt. Had to make hard choices. NCP's are faced everyday with that. Most WANT to be good parents, and arent afforded the opportunity due to cs.

I'd like to ask you one question: Do you think it right now if you were to be the cp, that you recieve cs?


Like I mentioned in another post, IF your ex is open to the idea, he can turn the cs over to you each month, because most courts are not allowing a no cs order these days. To take a motion into court like that is seriously a crapshoot, and could very possibly end up spending a couple grand in court for nothing.



Another lesson you have probably learned, is live within your own means, and not your means and someone elses.
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: LESLIEONE1 on Oct 08, 2004, 08:35:14 AM
yep. you have to realize I was receiving $466 a month from him for CS, although this figure was not accurate, i accepted it as it was immediate. So you add less the 466 per month i had been receiving and add the 345 which comes to 811 per month...could you survive?
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: hoosierpapa4 on Oct 10, 2004, 08:30:47 PM
>According to the NC CS calculator you would have to pay
>$343.55/mth in CS.

I wish I could just pay 10% of my gross income.  Mine is more like 38%.


>That is based on the info where you said the CP makes $100,000
>and you make $30,000.
>
>Are you saying that the rest of your expenses are so great
>that you can't pay the $343.55?
>
>
Title: RE: can child support be denied
Post by: POC on Oct 12, 2004, 06:20:04 AM
Both parents should share financial responsibility for the needs of their children at both homes. Pure and simple, if the kids would be harmed if they were not to receive something (food, roof, clothes, etc...), then both parents should share that responsibility.

If you believe that both parents should share financial responsibility for items which their children would be harmed if they were not to receive them, then in Leslie1's case, she should not pay $343.55 / mo. to her husband. Instead, an equitable child support award would have him paying child support to her.

Child support has never been about gender for me.