SPARC Forums

Main Forums => Father's Issues => Topic started by: MYSONSDAD on Dec 27, 2004, 08:22:55 AM

Title: Not so Merry Christmas....
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Dec 27, 2004, 08:22:55 AM
http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_3427119,00.html

Missing children found

Amber Alert ends with police chase, Springs man's arrest

By John C. Ensslin, Rocky Mountain News
December 27, 2004

BRIGHTON - Police arrested a Colorado Springs lawyer who was the subject
of an Amber Alert on Sunday after he allegedly failed to return his two
small daughters to their mother after a Christmas visit.

Officers subdued David A. Scott, 41, with a Taser device after he led them
on a brief foot chase, said Brighton Police Sgt. John Bradley. Scott was
not armed, police said.

  His two daughters, Heather, 2, and Nicole, 4, were returned unharmed to
their mother about two hours later, police said.

Scott's arrest ended a statewide search for the two girls, whom Colorado
Springs police said were supposed to have been returned to their mother at
8 p.m. Saturday.

The case began in Denver around 1:30 p.m. Saturday when Denver police were
called to the La Quinta Inn at 1975 S. Colorado Blvd. on a report of
criminal mischief.

Police said they found "significant damage" to the room, which suggested a
disturbance had taken place. A Denver homicide detective and a fire
investigator helped examine the hotel room. Police also searched a nearby
garbage container.

Denver police spokesman John White said the room looked "suspicious," but
declined to elaborate.

Meanwhile, Denver police contacted Colorado Springs police after learning
Scott had been the last person to rent the motel room.

Colorado Springs police contacted Scott's former wife, Elizabeth Scott,
who told them her daughters were supposed to have been returned Saturday
night under a court-ordered visitation agreement.

After Scott failed to drop the children off near a local drugstore,
Colorado Springs police contacted the Colorado Bureau of Investigation and
initiated an Amber Alert.

Around noon Sunday, Scott and his two daughters sat down for breakfast at
a Village Inn restaurant in Brighton.

He ordered bacon and eggs and a small chocolate milk for one of the girls.

A customer at the restaurant who had seen the Amber Alert recognized
Scott's rented red Chrysler Sebring and alerted police. Both the front and
back seats of the car were filled with clothing, crackers and stuffed
animals.

When officers arrived, one of them went inside and asked Scott to step
outside. He complied, but as soon as he got outside, witnesses said he set
his 2-year-old daughter down and ran north.

Janina Million, of Dacono, was walking into the restaurant when the chase
began.

"He took off running and all of a sudden a cop comes out," Million said.
"He (the officer) yells at us, 'grab the kids' and then he takes off
running after the guy."

Million and another customer, Coco O'Neill, of Brighton, took the children
inside the restaurant.

"They were completely hysterical," O'Neill said. "We just held them until
they quieted down."

She said the girls were crying out for their father.

Brighton officers chased Scott about 120 yards to a parking lot outside a
Kmart store.

After disregarding the officer's commands to stop, Bradley said one of the
officers fired his Taser, a nonlethal stun gun, and subdued Scott.

Court records show that Scott, an attorney who practices in Colorado
Springs, filed for divorce this summer.

He has been arrested five times in the past year as a result of domestic
violence allegations. The most recent arrest was Dec. 18.

The El Paso County district attorney dropped several of the charges
against him, but Scott is awaiting trial in March on the remaining charges
of false imprisonment, harassment and violating the terms of his bond,
records show.

Elizabeth Scott, 34, has obtained three restraining orders against her
former husband.

Details of her allegations could not be obtained Sunday. David Scott's
mother, reached in another state, said her son has shared custody with his
ex-wife and was responsible for his daughters on weekdays.

"He's a man who loves his kids dearly and would do anything in the world
for them," Ann Beirn said.

Beirn, who declined to comment further, said her son has been traumatized
by his divorce.

Denver police Sunday evening determined that no charges will be filed in
connection with the damaged hotel room because Scott agreed to cover the
costs.

Charges were still possible in Adams and El Paso counties.

Domestic violence activists worry about the long-term effects for children
who are exposed to violence and disputes between their parents.

"The trauma that it puts on the children, I think, is the most frightening
for all of us," said Jeneen Klippel- Worden, director of development for
the Gateway Battered Women's Shelter in Aurora.

"It's not going to be a happy ending unless someone gives them some
intervention."

ensslinj@RockyMountainNews.com or 303-892-5291 Staff writers Sarah Huntley
and Jennifer Miller contributed to this report.



"Children learn what they live"
Title: the system is bias
Post by: Bolivar on Dec 27, 2004, 08:55:34 AM
A woman kidnaps the child for years and when found gets physical custody and the father pays child support.

A father kidnaps the children for 2 hours and there is a statewide search for the two girls with the father being arrested.

The sad part was “She said the girls were crying out for their father.”  This man is not dangerous.  The system is.


“Never forget who your actual opponent is. – The System”.  Don't give your opponent any opportunity to continue to pretend the problem is between you and the eX-. It thrives on the conflict it engenders.”
By Jim Loose
Title: This is what hit me...
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Dec 27, 2004, 09:17:50 AM
>Domestic violence activists worry about the long-term effects for children
who are exposed to violence and disputes between their parents.

"The trauma that it puts on the children, I think, is the most frightening
for all of us," said Jeneen Klippel- Worden, director of development for
the Gateway Battered Women's Shelter in Aurora.

"It's not going to be a happy ending unless someone gives them some
intervention."<

Maybe if equality in the courtrooms were practiced, this could have been avoided. Would love to hear the details behind what really happened.....

There is much more to this story then meets the eye.

"Children learn what they live"
Title: RE: the system is bias
Post by: Brent on Dec 28, 2004, 08:00:32 AM
>A woman kidnaps the child for years and when found gets
>physical custody and the father pays child support.
>
>A father kidnaps the children for 2 hours and there is a
>statewide search for the two girls with the father being
>arrested.

And shot with a TASER. (I noticed that they didn't shoot the mother with a TASER for kidnapping her kids for a decade or so.) But hey, he was a only a father, it's not like he was an actual human being or something.

Plus he was *2* whole hours late dropping off his own children. If that isn't reason enough to TASER him, I don't know what is. If we don't show fathers that they're nothing but targets for the police they might start getting uppity notions- like they deserve "equality" in parenting or some such nonsense.

Title: Read the article again
Post by: gidgetgirl on Dec 28, 2004, 02:43:35 PM
He was found at noon on Sunday and he was supposed to drop off the girls Saturday night at 8pm.  That's 16 hours late.  The girls were reunited with mom two hours after the arrest.

And he was TASERed for resisting arrest, not kidnapping, although still most likely overkill.

But yes, I'm thinking there is MUCH more to the story than what is in the paper- there always is...
Title: RE: Not so Merry Christmas....
Post by: bigsigh2004 on Dec 28, 2004, 05:42:51 PM
Ok, I'm a dad (granted the oh so controversial one who is actually a better parent IMO as an NCP)

BUT all "injustice to father's in the system" aside...

didn't anyone catch this one line of the article?

**witnesses said he set his 2-year-old daughter down and ran north.**

He bailed on a two year old, left her in a restaurant with strangers to try to save his own butt. I can't think of any kid who wouldn't start to scream and cry if EITHER of the parents plopped them down and ran off.

Sorry, but as a parent I'd have tasered him too, you are supposed to protect your kids first, not yourself.

Title: RE: Not so Merry Christmas....
Post by: Stepmom0418 on Dec 28, 2004, 06:07:40 PM
I agree he should have thought of the child before himself!

My question is would a mother in the same shoe have been treated the same?? I doubt it very much! A mother would more than like get a slap on the wrist and that would be the end.

By the way bigsigh " How are things going your way?" How is your daughter and the situation that you are/were going through?
Title: RE: Not so Merry Christmas....
Post by: bigsigh2004 on Dec 28, 2004, 07:10:44 PM
I doubt the mama would have been tasered but I know a few policepeople who don't think twice about tackling a woman if she runs.

I do notice since the institution of the "amber alert" any kidnapping situation, regardless of gender, has a heightened reaction level.

Step - actually pretty wonderfully thank you for asking. My daughter is doing much better at her mom's. She has more patience than I do, always has.

Due to my choice to have her go back to mom everyone is getting along better. Mom has pretty much instituted an "open door" policy, if I want to come by all it takes is a call. She taught our daughter that I'm #2 on the speed dial during the day (work) and #3 at night (home). (911 is #1 - I had to ask!) She didn't blink an eye at signing my version of the custody agreement, with all of my concerns I had addressed. She added a few things of her own, but minor. (ie: It's my job to contact daughter's school/doctor for any info and not expect her to be the delivery person)

We shared Christmas, I'm taking her New Year's Eve so my ex can go out.

All in all, it was the best decision I've made in a long time. The big huge goofy grin on my daughter's face proves it.

Thanks for asking.
Title: Glad to hear it worked out.....
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Dec 28, 2004, 07:38:02 PM
I know it was a heart wrenching decision, Happy Holidays!

"Children learn what they live"
Title: RE: Not so Merry Christmas....
Post by: Stepmom0418 on Dec 29, 2004, 05:25:09 AM
From what you have said Bigsigh, it sounds like you made the best choice for you, your childs mother, and most important your daughter! Also I would like to say that from what you posted it sounds almost like a shared parenting plan and you can pretty much see your daughter when ever you or your daughter want to see each other. That is the best plan anyone could ask for!!

Congrats to you and your daughter!
Title: RE: Not so Merry Christmas....
Post by: wendl on Dec 29, 2004, 06:19:15 AM
Bigfish,
I am so glad tihngs are going well for your daughter, yourself and ex, I know this wasn't easy to do and sounds like it is best for your daughter. It is great that the door is open so you can see your daughter and that mom taught her the speed dial #'s. Its wonderfull when adults can put their differences aside for the sake of the child.

Hope you have a great new years.

**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**
Title: RE: Not so Merry Christmas....
Post by: Stepmom0418 on Dec 29, 2004, 07:00:37 AM
Wendl I had to laugh........Bigfish.....LOL!

Gave me a laugh for the day!
Title: RE: Read the article again
Post by: Brent on Dec 29, 2004, 08:28:07 AM
Regardless, I can't remember the last time I heard of a mom being shot with a TASER for not returning the children on time.
Title: well
Post by: catherine on Dec 29, 2004, 09:01:36 AM
I hear about all sorts of people being shot with a TASER when they resist arrest and cause a big scene.
Title: Hey!
Post by: bigsigh2004 on Dec 29, 2004, 11:52:53 AM
I like it!

Bigfish! Fits, now that I'm done sighing. :)

I think my entire family is going to have a great 2005. I hope yours do too.

Title: RE: Hey!
Post by: Stepmom0418 on Dec 29, 2004, 12:34:35 PM
I had to give wendl some crap about it. LOL! But i don't think Wendl has seen my post yet.

Thanks for the good wished for 2005! Feb will tell our future! Hope that the courts make the best decision for SS!

I hope that you have a wonderful year Bigsigh! Also I have to compliment you and say that it takes one heck of a parent to put aside your pride and do what is best for your child!!
Title: no offense Brent...
Post by: bigsigh2004 on Dec 29, 2004, 04:44:32 PM
but, that wasn't why he was shot with a taser. He was shot because he ran from the police. As I said in my post below I know policepersons who don't hesitate to shoot anyone, regardless of gender, if they are running from, or resisting arrest.

In fact he DUMPED his kids and ran. Frigging coward IMO. I'm sorry, but if men don't want to feel like criminals for wanting to be with the kids they have, don't act like one.







Title: DH's ex is over 12 hours late turning the
Post by: smtotwo on Dec 29, 2004, 05:54:48 PM
kids over for x-mas placement....after 12 hours its a felony to withhold a child from the other parent.


No amber alert here, no chasing her down,  and HUH IMAGINE THIS...

NO TASER!!

Not that she doesn't deserve it!!
Title: LMAO and...........
Post by: wendl on Dec 29, 2004, 06:22:58 PM
LMAO musta still have bigfish on my mind, DH and his brother caught a few big fish the last couple of days LMAO

**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**
Title: RE: DH's ex is over 12 hours late turning the
Post by: Stepmom0418 on Dec 30, 2004, 05:21:52 AM
Did DH get the kids yet?
Title: My ex with held my son for weeks.
Post by: Bolivar on Dec 30, 2004, 06:20:13 AM
My ex with held my son for weeks.  I had to go to court to see my son.

She got a slap on the wrist.

I will say she has not pulled that stunt since.
Title: What a shame....
Post by: cathy on Dec 30, 2004, 05:28:46 PM
for so many reasons.

I know the system can be biased and I know a lot of fathers have been screwed.  But what this man did was just STUPID.  He has already had complaints made for DV (regardless or whether they are true or not).  Now, what has his behavior done?  It has simply futhered the belief that he is a violent person.

Yes, fathers get treated unfairly everyday.  Yes, chances are good that perhaps this man was unfairly treated concerning his kids as well (or he may truly be a violent asshole, who knows?)   But did his actions further his cause? Hell no - he will probably be lucky to get supervised visits with his kids.

Oh - and what was the deal with the damaged hotel room????/

Anyway - I guess the first thing that hit me was - - - just because we know fathers that have been screwed, we shouldn't assume everytime we see something like this that the father is being screwed and treated badly.  Maybe he is a violent asshole (there are some out there!).

The other thing that hit me was - no matter how unfair and screwed, this type of behaviour doesn't seem to be the way to fix it at all.  It just gives fuel to the fire for the exwife to say "See?  I told you he was a lousy scumbag".  And now, by running from the police - ABANDONING his kids - he has pretty much said "Yeah, I am".

Unfortunately, as unfair as it may be, if someone says you are a scumbag, you have to work twice as hard to prove them WRONG.   And that sure isn't done by acting like a scumbag!
Title: RE: DH's ex is over 12 hours late turning the
Post by: smtotwo on Dec 31, 2004, 07:45:49 AM
Nope still no kids, and now we're waiting for attorney to call back,  the felony may only apply to NCP, may be that, that door only swings one way!!

How frustrating!!
Title: worst case :
Post by: Stepmom0418 on Dec 31, 2004, 07:59:59 AM
Your DH should still be able to hold her in contempt!! Sooner or later the courts have to do something when NCP's keep filing contempt!

My heart goes out to you and your family! Good Luck and keep us posted! Hopefully you will have better luck hearing from an attorney than we are!!
Title: No offense Brent...
Post by: olanna on Dec 31, 2004, 08:21:54 AM
The size of most women and the lack of upper body strength makes it easier for them to be subdued when resisting arrest.  I don't hear of too many women resisting arrest, hence you won't hear of too many of them being tasered into submission.

Many years ago at a FL airport, I saw a woman running from the police and when they caught her they tasered her. But not her bf..he walked up peacefully.
Title: UPDATE
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Jan 01, 2005, 10:15:46 AM
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN

Johnson: Custody disputes can boil over during holidays

December 31, 2004

pictureIt is the story, among the dozens that floated past during my
absence, which still sticks. There are two other, quite similar ones
waiting for me on voice mail.

If I at all dread this time of year, it is because of stories such as
those and David A. Scott's. The season always reminds that married adult
people can be so cruel. And in their foolishness, they completely blind
themselves to what their children need.

Advertisement

We should, though, stick mostly with the story of David A. Scott. You
likely remember him. He is the Colorado Springs lawyer who last week
triggered an Amber Alert for his two daughters, ages 4 and 2.

The 41-year-old failed to return the girls to their mother and his
estranged wife, Elizabeth, on Christmas Day, as scheduled. Shortly after 1
a.m. Sunday, she called the cops, and the alert was issued.

This is where the story gets really sad: A man eating at a Brighton
restaurant around noon on Sunday recognized David Scott's car as the one
described in the alert. David Scott was inside, eating lunch with the two
girls. When the cops arrived, he darted out and led them on a short chase.
His two young girls were traumatized, crying their eyes out as customers
took them inside while police chased their dad.

I have listened to and reported enough of these stories to immediately
know David and Elizabeth Scott were in the midst of a really nasty
divorce. Trust me, nasty divorces are always the trigger for these holiday
season tragedies.

If you guessed there was a flurry of legal maneuvers preceding it all, you
would be correct. Elizabeth Scott days earlier got a judge to order that
David Scott have no contact with the girls.

Yes, he had bailed out only days earlier on domestic violence, harassment
and false imprisonment charges that Elizabeth Scott had brought.

Their separation on July 19 was followed by accusations of her drug use,
his yelling and screaming at her, his hitting her and pretty much taking
their bedroom apart.

Classic stuff. All of which was destined to come to a head when Christmas
arrived.

"The stories I could tell. It happens every year at this time, and it is
so heartbreaking," said Brett W. Martin, a Westminster family law attorney
who specializes in divorce and father's rights issues. He had just
completed a week of getting fathers who had been denied Christmas
visitation with their children out of jail. They all were men caught up in
custody disputes or divorces that are not yet settled.

"It is the most difficult time of the year to do what I do," Brett Martin
said.

He tells the story of his latest case, of a soldier recently separated
from his wife. They, too, have two young children. She has custody. He
simply, he said, wanted to say hello to the kids on Christmas Day. So the
soldier called his former home. His wife refused to answer the phone. He
called throughout the day without getting an answer.

"I spent the better part of a day talking to him, assuring him that things
would be OK," Brett Martin said. And they were. The soldier got visitation
time with his kids a couple of days later, he said.

The outcome is not always so rosy. A different client, refused Christmas
visitation by his wife, ran with his kids, setting out for the East Coast.
The cops nabbed him in Missouri.

The reason such stories occur, why Amber Alerts are issued, is the holiday
season, Brett Martin said.

"It is the time of year when you can really get at your spouse," he said.
"Generally speaking, people in these situations become incredibly selfish,
and think only about themselves and not about the children. One is trying
to control the other, to deny them what truly matters. And things go
haywire."

What David Scott did was incredibly irresponsible, if not stupid, Brett
Martin said. He has only compounded his problems.

"I always tell guys, 'You've got choices, that the best choice is to take
a big timeout, to think of alternatives. Rather than strong-arm your way
in, we can file a motion to modify visitation or custody based on her
actions,' " he said.

Many men respond to this, Brett Martin said. Yet it eats at them because
all they want is a few hours with their children on what they view as the
most significant holiday of the year.

What will happen to David Scott?

"He made the worst mistake," Brett Martin said. The first thing David
Scott can expect is for a judge to grant Elizabeth Scott a no-contact
order for her and the kids.

"Now, he is completely at the mercy of the system and the mother as to
when he can see his children," Brett Martin said. "It will not be often,
and likely will be supervised from here on out."

Criminal charges will have to be answered. There likely will be probation,
the no-contact order in effect the entire time, he said.

"It will not be forever, but it is a big hole he has just dug for
himself," Brett Martin said.

His phone rings again. It is another man desperate to see his children
before the holidays end.

"It's depressing. These guys have brought presents they may never be able
to give their children. The sitting around the Christmas tree never
happens, so you can imagine what is going through their heads."

Think, Brett Martin said, of David Scott's daughters, of how they watched
their father and the officers, of how they likely will carry that scene
with them forever.

"Take a timeout." Brett Martin said he tells clients every day this time
of year. "Work with her. You and she will be better off.

"And certainly, and most importantly, the kids will be better off."

Bill Johnson's column appears Wednesday, Friday and Saturday. Call him at
303-892-2763 or e-mail him at johnsonw@RockyMountainNews.com.



"Children learn what they live"
Title: RE: UPDATE
Post by: olanna on Jan 01, 2005, 10:38:57 AM
While I totally understand how these things fester, for the life of me I don't understand why he had to run from the police.  It was knee jerk reaction that is going to cost him and his little girls dearly in the long run...

And that is the saddest part of this story...