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Main Forums => Father's Issues => Topic started by: foughtandwon on Jan 12, 2005, 11:36:54 AM

Title: mother doesnt know when to stop
Post by: foughtandwon on Jan 12, 2005, 11:36:54 AM
i was awarded custody of my son via a CPS case. my son was removed from her care for medical neglect and possible sexual abuse.

anyway during his first visit back (x mas break) she runs to CPS and reports me for emotional abuse. they investigate and close because the find nothing. she then takes him to a doctor and has him say i punch him in the stomach.

now she is pestering me for his school info.

now what exactly does "sole custody" mean? i have sole custody she has unsupervised parenting time.

i am assuming since i have sole (physical and legal) custody she no longer has a right to school/medical records.
i wouldnt mind but anyone can see what she is upto here.
and is it also illegal for her to take him to a doctor? (unless it was an emergancy) and then with hold the doctors name and number from me?????


i am thiking of taking this back to court and trying to get her visits supervised.

i am military so i move around alot. i  agreed (not in court or writing) to send him out for x mas and summer breaks but now i can see this not the safest thing for my son

BTW her CPS case is still on going she has a daughter that was taken at the same time. total case time is going on 2 years now

i know false reports are a crime so i have kept the cps letter and still trying to locate the doctor he went to. i have also started recording her calls.


Title: RE: mother doesnt know when to stop
Post by: joni on Jan 12, 2005, 11:51:36 AM

I realize that you're angry angry at your Ex for the neglect and abuse that your son had to endure.  He's safe now in your care.  Don't continue to punish your Ex for what she's done by using your son as the conduit.  Believe me, taking her child away is HUGE punishment.  I'm sure her recent run to CPS is because she's hurt from the recent change in custody and desperately trying to do something about it.

You asked some questions, see inset below:


now she is pestering me for his school info.

---Under FERPA, unless there's a court order stating that she can't have this info, she's entitled to have this info.

now what exactly does "sole custody" mean? i have sole custody she has unsupervised parenting time.

---Sole LEGAL means you have the right to make the major decisions in your child's life such as medical, school and religion without consulting the other parent.  

i am assuming since i have sole (physical and legal) custody she no longer has a right to school/medical records.

---ABSOLUTELY WRONG THERE!  FERPA allows her the right for access unless you have a court order otherwise.

i wouldnt mind but anyone can see what she is up to here.
and is it also illegal for her to take him to a doctor? (unless it was an emergancy) and then with hold the doctors name and number from me?????

---She can't take him to a doctor without your permission.  She can only take him if there's an emergency while he's in her care.

i am thiking of taking this back to court and trying to get her visits supervised.

---Why?  What's your reason for the supervised?  IMO, the parties need a time out here to heal from the wounds of the recent custody change.  When the court gave you custody, why did they let her have unsupervised?  Unless something significant has happened, you'd have a hard time asking for supervised after your most recent court order.

i am military so i move around alot. i agreed (not in court or writing) to send him out for x mas and summer breaks but now i can see this not the safest thing for my son

---Again.....why?  Because she called CPS and took him to the doctor.  They found nothing, case closed.  Why add fuel to the fire?
Title: RE: mother doesnt know when to stop
Post by: msme on Jan 12, 2005, 01:01:34 PM
Welcome to the club. First off, how old is your son? Do you know what did she do to get him to lie to the doctor?

I think, if I were in your position, I would get your son to a therapist. Surely, he is hurting after the custody change & then obviously being grilled by his mom during a visit. A therapist could recomend supervised visitation, if he felt the child were being emotionally abused by her but like the other poster said, it is hard to do, after the fact.

Make sure that you are documenting everything that goes on. Take lots of pics & videos. It is best not to question him about what went on with her. Let the therapist do it. Keep your attorney posted on what is happening.

What does your custody order say about visitation? You must follow it.
Remember, what she does will get her a slap on the wrist, maybe. What you do could result in a change of custody & maybe jail.

Good Luck & God bless.

You never get a second chance to make a first impression!
Title: msme
Post by: Bolivar on Jan 12, 2005, 01:06:10 PM
How is your health doing?
Title: RE: msme
Post by: msme on Jan 12, 2005, 01:33:41 PM
Much better, thanks. I went back to work last Tuesday but the weather was just too nasty so I took off the rest of the week & went back this week. Told them they just didn't pay me enough to stand out in the street, in the freezing rain, so soon after being sick. LOL

Bolivar, you got mail. Maybe even 2 of em. LOL
You never get a second chance to make a first impression!
Title: RE: mother doesnt know when to stop
Post by: foughtandwon on Jan 12, 2005, 01:42:57 PM
what is ferpa and where can i find more info on it?
i contacted the school and gave them copies of the custody papers. they said they would contact their lawyer and find out what they can and cant do.

why supervised visits?
1. i dont want her filling his head with stuff.
2. she is still involved in a CPS case for her daughter (the same case that involved my son, going on 2 years now) she keeps refusing to comply with cps request.
3. as stated before there was posible sexual abuse, during all this i find out her father was involved with a cps case that involved sexual abuse (he knew she was being molested by family members and didnt stop it) so now you can see a dangerous patern here (she leaves my son with her father a lot of times)
4. i dont want to send him to visit and something bad happen to him and i be held at fault for not protecting him. (that doesnt come across right, i dont want anything bad to happen period)

it has been 6 months since the custody change i know she is still hurting but i have kept the doors open for her to keep in contact and this is this is what i get for that???
i hate to hid behind legal paper work but i really feel like i have to protect him form her.

as it stands right now. i am going to send my son to my dad for summer and she can pick him up and drop him off there.


i am still thinking of getting him therapy. he was neglected so bad as a kid then once cps got involved he was tested, inspected, probed, tested, evaluated, tested etc... etc......... i wonder how he managed to keep good spirts though all of it. i wanted to give him time off from all this constant probing and just let him be a kid for a while.
his teacher says he is doing great considering all he has been through
even though he is behind the rest of his class (he didnt even know numbers 1-3 when he started school) he is making huge progress.


Title: RE: mother doesnt know when to stop
Post by: foughtandwon on Jan 12, 2005, 01:56:14 PM
son is 5

talking to the cps case worker(the old one from the real case) she says the same. that i should get a therpist to recomend supervised visits that way if she does get the nerve to take me back to court i have someting to stand on. until than i will continue to keep the phone lines open for her but just record the phone calls( i arleady did all the checking on that and i am within the law)

the court order only says "reasonable unsupervised parenting time"
i think 5 weeks in the summer would be a bit more than reasonable.
as stated in another reply the plan is now to send him to my dad for a week or 2 and set up times for her to pick him up and drop him off.
this way he is a little bit more protectd and plus he gets time with grandpa. its a shame that she always found herself to bust to run him by my dads house to say high or even say merry x mas. luckily he sent his gifts to me.

i guess i will look into therapy for him now
Title: RE: FERPA
Post by: wendl on Jan 12, 2005, 07:41:15 PM
http://www.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/index.html

**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**
Title: RE: FERPA
Post by: foughtandwon on Jan 13, 2005, 07:52:10 AM
>http://www.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/index.html
>
>**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

thanks for the info

of course i always take everything i read here at half value and then research further for my ouwn satisfaction.

as of wed the school said no one has ontacted them for his info. there were on thier toe though cause me wife had to pick him up for a doctors appointment and they questioned her and verified she was on his contact sheet.
the princapal said he would get with the school attorney and see exactly what they can and cant do.
no worries here though cause i talked to the school records clerak and he doesnt have anything in his records anyway. i guess (here anyway) kindergaden records do not include report cards.

like i said i wouldnt mind bm mother looking at recods its just that i know she is trying to build a case against me.

when i took him to his first dental appointment they found lots and lots of problems. about $900 of it not covered by my ins. wanting to keep her informed of his health, i called and let her know and then asked if she wanted to help pay. i felt that would help her feel as if she still had involvment in his life. that of course got turned around into me neglecting him.
sorry but the damage done to his teeth didnt happen that quick.

Title: RE: FERPA
Post by: Avaya on Jan 13, 2005, 09:03:54 AM
How far does mom live from you?  Maybe YOU could provide her with school info so that she doesn't have to contact the school.  Give her a school calendar, tell her who your son's teacher is, occasionally send her some of his school work.
Title: RE: FERPA
Post by: olanna on Jan 13, 2005, 09:28:48 AM
I was thinking along the same lines. I send friendly reminders to my son's Dad about important school dates, meetings, field trips, etc...

Sounds a bit of a tit for tat thing, to me.
Title: RE: FERPA
Post by: foughtandwon on Jan 13, 2005, 09:32:57 AM
>How far does mom live from you?  Maybe YOU could provide her
>with school info so that she doesn't have to contact the
>school.  Give her a school calendar, tell her who your son's
>teacher is, occasionally send her some of his school work.

we live 1400 miles apart.
i have thought about sending her some but you would have to be in my shoes to under stand.
it is honestly in my sons best intrest that she not be involved with his school. for one she has done nothing to help him there. he is 5 years old and like i said before he didnt even know numbers 1-3 or any letters. yet we would tell me of all the video games he played at moms house.

if she was to have the school number she would constatly be pestering the teacher and office staff. she would talk her lies and pretty change the way teachers view my son.
right now he is in a stable home and has a solid routine i stck to.  

honestly if she was so concerned for her children she would have complied with CPS request. she still has a chance to get her daughter back but she still wont comply with CPS.
Title: RE: mother doesnt know when to stop
Post by: LizaLou1 on Jan 13, 2005, 09:36:59 AM
I would suggest you treat her exactly like you would want to be treated.  Take the high road.  What is the harm in her having medical and school info?  It is, what it is.  IMO, by withholding it looks like your hiding something.

My next statement is NOT about you so don't get offended.  But too many times the legal system/winner take all attitudes cause conflight where there should be none.  

Parents (plural) should raise children not the legal system.  It's so sad when a parent acts against the the best interest of their children because the hate their ex.  Been there with CPS, so I feel your pain.

LizaLou
Title: RE: FERPA
Post by: olanna on Jan 13, 2005, 09:38:33 AM
"it is honestly in my sons best intrest that she not be involved with his school. for one she has done nothing to help him there."

Um, no it is honestly in his best interest if you do get her involved in his school, so she can learn how to help him and understand what the expectation is for him to do well.  It sounds like she never was involved in his learning process and it would be to your son's benefit to have both parents involved.

You don't have to play god with the school staff. They have seen it all before and they can see through people that are trying to help and those that are trying to hinder. Your ex isn't the first case or the last case they will deal with.

Title: RE: FERPA
Post by: foughtandwon on Jan 13, 2005, 09:42:58 AM
>I was thinking along the same lines. I send friendly
>reminders to my son's Dad about important school dates,
>meetings, field trips, etc...
>
>Sounds a bit of a tit for tat thing, to me.

you know if she was willing to work together on things that would be great but she has nothing but bad intentions.  from flat out lying on the stand to directly insulting my family

i know people probably say it on here all the time but she is really mentaly disturbed. she cant see the fact that he is better off with me.

i even offerd joint custody in mediation and she threw it in my face. once it was clear i was going to get custody i then offerd joint legal custody and she again threw it in my face.

he concern has always been one thing
a pay check.
she braged at one time about getting child support from me and support  from her ex husband she said if she had 1 more child and got support for it then she wouldnt have to work anymore.
Title: RE: mother doesnt know when to stop
Post by: foughtandwon on Jan 13, 2005, 09:52:29 AM
>I would suggest you treat her exactly like you would want to
>be treated.  Take the high road.  What is the harm in her
>having medical and school info?  It is, what it is.  IMO, by
>withholding it looks like your hiding something.
>
>My next statement is NOT about you so don't get offended.  But
>too many times the legal system/winner take all attitudes
>cause conflight where there should be none.  
>
>Parents (plural) should raise children not the legal system.
>It's so sad when a parent acts against the the best interest
>of their children because the hate their ex.  Been there with
>CPS, so I feel your pain.
>
>LizaLou

well thats exactly how i was treating her. it even caused conflict between me and the wife. she felt i was being more supportive of the bm than her. we have worked things out and are fine now.
i offered bm many options and she threw them all in my face.
you can only be the nice guy for so ong when people are craping on you.

i'm with you on the parents should raise and not the legal system. thats i never took her to court for custody before. i paid my support with out the court telling me to(i dont want praise for that, it should always be that way) and day after day i would ask to be in his life and for him to come live /visit with me.  for 5 years i kept hope alive that one days she would see the good in that and agree. she never did and the only reason i got custody is because CPS was involved. so its not that i took her to court to take him away she took her self to court and gave him away.

when he was first born her dad even told me that if we ever went to court he would fight me every step of the way.
Title: RE: FERPA
Post by: olanna on Jan 13, 2005, 10:01:20 AM
WE can all thank the family courts and judges for the attitude you describe. If CS awards were limited to what the Feds say it takes to raise a child, the custody awards would be much more equal, as having custody wouldn't propose the profit it does today.

You have to remember that there is a stigma attached to any NCP. For men it's one and for women it is another.

Maybe if you just keep on doing what is best for your son, everything will fall into place. And as much as you might not want to hear this, working together with his mom, even if she is an idiot, is really what is best for your son. If he sees you respect another adult and treat them fairly, he will learn so much from it.

I wish you all the best.
Title: RE: FERPA
Post by: foughtandwon on Jan 13, 2005, 10:20:37 AM

>
>Um, no it is honestly in his best interest if you do get her
>involved in his school, so she can learn how to help him and
>understand what the expectation is for him to do well.  It
>sounds like she never was involved in his learning process and
>it would be to your son's benefit to have both parents
>involved.
>

i'm gonna hve to disagree with you. i am all about the 2 parents and working together thing. however at some point you have to realize in some cases it is better that the child be protected form 1 parent.
she had a simple case plan form CPS to follow.
she made it clear that she put herself before the children and she continues to do so, that is why after 2 years her daughter is still in foster care.
she even pulled the "he's not the father" trick. a quick DNA test proved that to be a lie.

so you tell me how is it in my sons best interest to give his info to a parent who only wants to take him away from me and put him back in harms way??? either by medical or emotion neglect and the posible sexual abuse
he is in a good home now, i have tried numerous times to help his mother and everyting gets thown back in my face.
so i would have to say at this point right now anyway she doesnt need that info.
now if down the road some where she matures and can see that what she was doing was hurting hiim i would reconsider.
but right now she is not thinking straight


Title: RE: FERPA
Post by: jilly on Jan 13, 2005, 10:24:59 AM
>You don't have to play god with the school staff. They have seen it all before and they can see through people that are trying to help and those that are trying to hinder. <

That ain't necessarily so.  My DH had joint legal custody and ex will not share any school information with him. If he asks how things are going he gets a pat response of "everything's fine".  I truly believe Hakuna Matata is her motto! LOL   Last year SD's teacher was very good about sending us EVERYTHING.  This year we're lucky to get anything. PB is a room mother for SD's class so you figure it out.
Title: hate to burst your bubble...
Post by: olanna on Jan 13, 2005, 10:26:30 AM
But whether you give it to her or not, she can get the school information and call the teachers..she doesn't need your permission to do that. (Ask me how I know...)

She also doesn't need your permission to call the doctor and get medical info either...(ask me how I know that, too).

I am not going to argue this with you but I am going to say one time...it is to your benefit and your son's benefit to cooperate.  Custody is never permanent, as anyone on this board can attest.

Best to you.
Title: RE: FERPA
Post by: olanna on Jan 13, 2005, 10:28:11 AM
So you contact the school and request the report cards, info...you will get it.

And you can call the teacher and get updates. You don't have to wait on her to call you...BTDT.
Title: One thing ya'll are missing....
Post by: jilly on Jan 13, 2005, 10:33:09 AM
He's repeatedly said that CPS is involved (not just with their son but with a daughter she has by someone else) and he said why in his initial post...because of medical neglect and suspected sexual abuse. It sounds to me like he has done everything he can to give the BM contact with their son. She does have unsupervised visits and their son got to spend Christmas with his Mom.  Although, why she'd be getting unsupervised visits with suspected sexual abuse is beyond me...that's the Court/CPS for you.  Also, we don't know EXACTLY what their CO says with regards to legal/physical custody. I think he stated earlier that he has SOLE Physical and legal custody.  If that's the case then, NO the BM can't get any information from the school or doctor and can't take their son to the doctor.
Title: RE: hate to burst your bubble...
Post by: foughtandwon on Jan 13, 2005, 10:38:55 AM
>But whether you give it to her or not, she can get the school
>information and call the teachers..she doesn't need your
>permission to do that. (Ask me how I know...)
>
>She also doesn't need your permission to call the doctor and
>get medical info either...(ask me how I know that, too).
>
>I am not going to argue this with you but I am going to say
>one time...it is to your benefit and your son's benefit to
>cooperate.  Custody is never permanent, as anyone on this
>board can attest.
>
>Best to you.

the school principal said he was gonna talk to the schools attorney to make sure they are doing the right thing.
I have nothing to hide and he is doing well in school i talk to the teacher all the time and she only has good things to say and tells me she can tell exactly what i have been working on with him.
medical record well there is hardly anything there
so weather she gets them or not she has nothing to point fingers at.
i just dont want her to think she has found something and drag this back to court. that would be a strain on everybody emotionaly and in turn would effect both my children.

Title: RE: FERPA
Post by: jilly on Jan 13, 2005, 10:46:46 AM
We get the report cards but we're not getting the day-to-day stuff, such as behavior reports, field trip information, school newsletter, etc.  All stuff we got last year.  We sent a FERPA letter to the school (with CO attached)  after meeting the teacher at Open House because she wasn't sending us anything even though DH gave her SASEs at the Open House and told her then that he would appreciate her sending him copies of anything and everything that goes to CP. When school pictures were taken I sent the teacher an e-mail asking she e-mail me and let me know when the pictures come in so me or DH could come by the school and pick them up.  She sent an e-mail back saying she would.  I stopped by the school one day to drop off more SASEs and asked about the school pictures.  They were up at the front desk with a post-it note saying that DH was going to pick them up. Teacher NEVER sent an e-mail saying the pictures had come in and we could pick them up. I just knew that it was about time for them to come in and inquired about them. Another time I was at the school to have lunch with SD. I left a written message for the teacher asking her to please include a copy of the school newsletter with the other copies she sends DH.  To this day he has YET to receive a copy of the school newsleter.  School events, by school,  used to be posted on the county school board website but they had problems with the database and it's been pulled.  The last school related mailing DH received was the class newsletter dated December 6th.
Title: RE: One thing ya'll are missing....
Post by: foughtandwon on Jan 13, 2005, 10:53:39 AM
 Although, why she'd be getting
>unsupervised visits with suspected sexual abuse is beyond
>me...that's the Court/CPS for you.


this has disturbed me from the begining. luckily there was no signs of this on my son, just the little girl (that doesnt make it any less upsetting though) but i have always though anybody that would do that too a 2year old girl is sick enough to do it to a 5 year old boy. anyway the courts/cps never dug any deeper into the issue and it was kind quitely pushed under the carpet. i guess they had no suspects and just wanted to focus on helping the mother become a better parent

the case worker was alos upse about the unsupervised visits, she saif the judge has made some weird calls before so i was lucky to get what i did.



 Also, we don't know
>EXACTLY what their CO says with regards to legal/physical
>custody. I think he stated earlier that he has SOLE Physical
>and legal custody.  If that's the case then, NO the BM can't
>get any information from the school or doctor and can't take
>their son to the doctor.

the CO says just that
sole custody for me "reasonable unsupervised parenting time for her"
above that it says
the court will refrain from entering an order reguarding parenting time.

and the part i hate
the court retains jurisdiction with respect to parenting time if the parents are unable to work out an agreement on thier own .......................................

the only reason i dont like that part is, i dont want to have to travel back and fourth to court again. i wounder if i can get that changed or if there is a time limit on it...

oh and she still refuses to give me the name and number of the doctor she took him to





Title: you are wrong Jilly
Post by: SLYarnell on Jan 13, 2005, 11:55:06 AM
Unless there is a COURT ORDER stating that the mother CANNOT have access to those records there is NOTHING the father can do to keep her from them.  PLEASE try to verify your info before you give advise!!
Title: RE: mother doesnt know when to stop
Post by: backwardsbike on Jan 13, 2005, 12:42:22 PM
Well siad!  I couldn't agree with you more about the legal system and the winner take all attitude.  Uncooperativeness and lack of coparenting should be severely punished.  It hurts kids.  Instead I keep hearing:  It isn't illegal to be an SOB. and things like that.  It makes my blood boil!

I also agree with you about paretns raising thier kids and not the legal sysytem.  My elder tow are being raised inthe courts because the CP dad will never compromise or even discuss anything with me.  He just goes to court everytime I question anything he does.  He doesn't feel that I have a right to make or have input into any decisions regarding the kids.  SO he goes to court.  The the judge complains that we are always in court.  Why wouldn't the judge ever think that if he gave me more time with the kids maybe I'd have some control and we wouldn't be back in court all the time.  Most of the time the judge agrees with me .
Title: RE: you are wrong Jilly
Post by: jilly on Jan 13, 2005, 12:58:06 PM
This is what I said:

"Also, we don't know EXACTLY what their CO says with regards to legal/physical custody. I think he stated earlier that he has SOLE Physical and legal custody. If that's the case then, NO the BM can't get any information from the school or doctor and can't take their son to the doctor."

He still hasn't really answered that question. As I read back over the posts, he only states he has sole physical and Mother has unsupervised visits.  Maybe the matter of legal custody wasn't addressed or he doesn't understand that legal custody is different from having physical custody.  At any rate, I'm not wrong by stating that IF he has SOLE legal and SOLE physical custody then the Mother can't access the school/medical records and can't take their son to the doctor.
Title: RE: FERPA
Post by: Avaya on Jan 13, 2005, 01:04:37 PM
Not to be snarky, but SO?  You can't let her motives and stupidity affect YOU doing the right thing.  Sending her a calendar and school papers doesn't mean you have to work with her.  It's just common courtesy, IMO.  If she wants to look like a mental patient, so be it, but if you can prove that you have behaved like a NORMAL parent/co-parent, then you're way ahead of the game and it doesn't matter one iota what she does.
Title: Could you answer this question...
Post by: jilly on Jan 13, 2005, 01:07:24 PM
Does your CO say anything about legal custody?

This is different from sole physical custody.  Legal custody gives the NCP rights to review and/or obtain copies of school records and medical records.  IF your CO only says "sole custody" then you need to go back to Court to clarify that "sole custody" means sole physical and sole legal custody.  Otherwise your ex is entitled to school/medical records and to take your son to the doctor.  Of course, that also gives YOU the right to know what doctor she took your son to.  If she continues in refusing to give you the name and number of the doctor call CPS and let them know.  Don't know if they can do anything or not.  You've said she's already not following the plan CPS has for reunification of her daughter so I doubt anything they do will make her give the doctor's name and number.  If you have an attorney you might want to see if you can file contempt charges against her as well.
Title: RE: you are wrong Jilly
Post by: foughtandwon on Jan 13, 2005, 01:38:26 PM
ok now we are getting to make a little sence here
i have read th3e CO back and fourth and have it right here in front of me.
it does not specify sole legal. i guess i was ass-ume ing that sice the order said sole it covered both.


under best interest it says
"it is in ******* best intrest that ******* (me) have sole custody and primary physical custody with unsupervised parenting time with ****** (bm)

then on the last page is where it says

******** is awarded sole custody of ******** and******** is awarded resonable unsepervised parenting time as agreed to by the parties

i guess it can be beat to death either way but seeing how it originated as a CPS case i think she would have a heck of a time trying to get anything changed.

i am stil gonna meet with a lawyer localy and see what they say. i only have 5 months left at my curent station so i may wait till next summer since i know how long cort matters can take.
Title: RE: you are wrong Jilly
Post by: foughtandwon on Jan 13, 2005, 01:47:27 PM
hold on just found another part
guess you can never read these things to many times

ok
under
the wishes of the childs parents as to custody
it says
****** is seeking sole legal and physical custodyof his child *****
the mother ********* is also seeking sole legal and primary physical custody of the child
but at the very end it also says *****(bm) has also expressed a willingness to consider joint legal but with primary physical custody

so it would seem to me that with this said
and the statement at the end of this i would indeed have sole legal and primary physical custody (with her part of custody be visits)
Title: RE: you are wrong Jilly
Post by: olanna on Jan 13, 2005, 02:26:23 PM
He also states that CPS was involved and the accusations were brought about against him, as well. With the unsupervised parenting time afforded Mom, I am inclined to believe it was a bit of a tit for tat thing between both of them, and he has a primary residence type of custody with her as the visiting parent.

That being what my thought is, given the information he has provided, she has full and complete access to the child's school records, as well as medical records.
Title: RE: FERPA
Post by: olanna on Jan 13, 2005, 02:29:54 PM
It can be such a circle jerk, can't it?  I literally had to contact the school photographer to pictures of my son..(this is the one from the east coast).

I get school info without problems, for other reasons.

;)
Title: RE: you are wrong Jilly
Post by: jilly on Jan 13, 2005, 02:45:42 PM
Yes he did...BM made a report to CPS during Christmas parenting time, which CPS could find no substantiation of her charges of emotional abuse so when that didn't work she took child to doctor and had him tell doctor that his Dad punched him in the stomach. Since he can't get the name and phone number of this doctor who knows if it's true or not. I can't remember if there's any mention of CPS talking to him about that accusation.  It most definitely is a tit for tat situation.

And I agree...the Mother does have full and comlete access to school/medical records now that there has been clarification about what CO says.  But by the same token, SHE should be giving HIM the name and phone number of the doctor that saw their son during her parenting time.  Tit for tat! LOL
Title: RE: you are wrong Jilly
Post by: foughtandwon on Jan 13, 2005, 02:59:47 PM
CPS did contact me after they investigated and closed the case
funny thing is the case worker ( the orginal one ) got a chance to see my son during this investigation and said he is so much better now then he was before.  that she only saw positve changes in his life.
so the case was noting more than the intial investigation
(and thats cause they have no choice, they have to investigate)
nothing further was done they saw him and closed the case.

I asked
cps what i could do to prevent her making reports everytime he visits, they said pretty much nothing but that it is a misdamenor to make false reports.

then talking to the original case worker she agreed that i shouldnt send him out tis summer because the BM was going to continue to make false reports, and fill his head with crap

i am really worried that she is so intent on getting him back that she would do anyting , even filling his head with lies.....
and that in my eyes is the true emotional abuse.


 
Title: you are STILL wrong!
Post by: SLYarnell on Jan 13, 2005, 06:48:45 PM
Even with sole custody he cannot keep the mother from having access to school or medical records!  ONLY a court order can do that!
Title: Agree - that's what I understand ....
Post by: Davy on Jan 13, 2005, 07:40:23 PM
is the legal statue... and it is probably documented on SPARC.

In practice many school systems are socially engineered to deny a father with or without a mother telling them to do so.  Same with the medical records even when they want a father to pay for services.  
Title: YOU ARE RIGHT YARNELL ABOUT FERPA....
Post by: joni on Jan 13, 2005, 11:16:22 PM
a simple click will reveal the federal law.  sole custody does not exclude the other parent from getting information from the school or a doctor unless there's a court order that says the parent cannot have the information.

now, the mom in this case is wrong for not disclosing the doctor she took the child to....

FERPA Sec. 99.4  What are the rights of parents?

    An educational agency or institution shall give full rights under
the Act to either parent, unless the agency or institution has been
provided with evidence that there is a court order, State statute, or
legally binding document relating to such matters as divorce,
separation, or custody that specifically revokes these rights.
Title: RE: Agree - that's what I understand ....
Post by: lyonsden on Jan 14, 2005, 12:55:38 AM
You need to check Federal and State statute. Where I live CP and NCP have rights to Medical/Educational records.

As for the school doing what it will, this is true in my case as well. My wife told the school that I was nto allowed to see my son, go to his classes, and they would not release any information about him or how he was doing in class. I made a quick phone call to the Local School Board told the Superintendant of Education what happened and advised him that what had transpired was illegal (gave him CFR # and state statute # made it real easy for they to find it and he corrected the problem and when my wife was told that they could not keep me from going to his class to see how he was doing, she blew her top infront of God only knows how many people.

foughtandwon- I you are on active duty you should get your son in school on post school. It's a different ball game on uncle sams truff adn it's geard to help YOU.

De Oppresso Libre- Been there don that.
Title: RE: Agree - that's what I understand ....
Post by: foughtandwon on Jan 14, 2005, 06:59:40 AM
yes he is in a base school and also goes to base medical

she hasnt tried anything yet

i will record her next call to my son and ask her for the doctor info again.
that way if she refuses i can catch it on tape.
Title: Did Ya'll Even READ The Additional Posts?
Post by: jilly on Jan 14, 2005, 08:05:52 AM
The way I was understanding it initially was he had sole physical/sole legal custody.  Once I asked him to clarify what the CO said then it was very clear from the CO that BM could access the school/medical records and take their son to the doctor. BUT...since she has taken their son to see a doctor during her parenting time SHE has the responsibility of giving him that doctor's name and telephone number, which she is refusing to do.  It goes both ways.  
Title: RE: mother doesnt know when to stop
Post by: Robityson1 on Jan 14, 2005, 09:27:31 AM
Hey there, I agree with just about everything you have said here and I understand your reasons and worries.  I can't believe all these people that say you should take the high road or whatever.  At the slightest hint of sexual abuse with my son I would want blood.  There is no way I would send my child back there with an ongoing case and even if it all gets cleared up I would have a very hard time trusting them and anyone who disagrees with that obviously does not regard their child as the most important thing in the world.  You say you have tried to be fair and she does not want to work that way.  It's a classic case of women trying to get everything for nothing.  If she is so hurt by the change then she should have thought about that before.  She has had plenty of time to do something about it.    Don't think you're wrong, These people on here think you are just supposed to take it and be ever so gentle and kind with your ex and that is B.S.  As long as you remain open to the right thing which is that the child needs both parents and try to do so then I see nothing wrong with your actions.  If you try to extend your hand to feed a dog (in this case a female dog that we all know the correct terminology as a Bitch) but it trys to bite you everytime, how long are you going to keep trying?  It is time these mothers take responsibility for their actions.
Title: you just dont get it!
Post by: SLYarnell on Jan 14, 2005, 10:12:06 AM
It DOESNT MATTER if she has sole custody or not.  UNLESS there is a court order SPECIFICALLY stating that the NCP does NOT have a right to school or medical records then FERPA APPLIES!!! REGARDLESS.

My entire point was you were giving false info and continued to give false info even after you were corrected.
Title: RE: mother doesnt know when to stop
Post by: SLYarnell on Jan 14, 2005, 10:20:03 AM
and if he follows your advise he can pretty much kiss his son goodbye!  The system is set up to protect a mother and her child.  Are you aware (and trust me I have done a TON of research on this very subject) that if this is a CPS case and that mother can bring herself to accomplish what CPS has set out for her to do that it is with almost 100% certainty that the mother will have custody of her child returned to her, regardless of what the father has done in the meantime.

Is this right? no of course it isnt but most of the time it is what happens in the real world of our court system!

If he wants any chance at all of keeping his son he better learn quickly how to play the game, because he who plays the game best wins!
Title: RE: you just dont get it!
Post by: jilly on Jan 14, 2005, 10:41:47 AM
First off...SHE doesn't have sole custody...the Father, foughtandwon, does.

Second off...I KNOW there has to be a CO stating that NCP does or does not have right to records. My DH has joint legal custody in his PP.

From what I'm understanding is, the current CO is SILENT on legal custody and ONLY addresses the issue of custody.  I'm thinking that if the CO is silent on the subject that she wouldn't be able to get access the records.  If that is incorrect, then you're right and I'm wrong! LOL
Title: RE: mother doesnt know when to stop
Post by: Robityson1 on Jan 14, 2005, 10:52:49 AM
Let's start off with this, I can tell by you're sloppiness and just plain disrespect for proper grammer that you read my post and got all offended.  I did not offer any advice.  I stated that I understand what he is feeling and then offered my opinions.  If you take a closer look at my post you will also notice that I said as long as he trys to do the right thing which is have BOTH parents then I agree with his actions.  That statement is also opinion.  I have read through these posts and it genuinly seems that this guy cares and IS trying to do the right thing.  I was simply trying to offer a little support instead of bashing him.  I can tell you are a know it all by how you point out your "tons of research" which you discredited yourself by not researching my post again which is a simple paragraph.    I know it is a game and has to be played accordingly like you said it is not right, but sometimes a person needs to know that they are not the only one that realizes this.  A little support can go a long way and hearing the same legal jargon regurgitated over and over again can begin to be despairing as well.  These are human beings posting on here, at least most of them are anyway and they need human responses once in a while.   So go ahead and keep playing lawyer or what ever else helps you sleep through the night.
Title: yup, you're wrong ...
Post by: SLYarnell on Jan 14, 2005, 10:58:22 AM
stating once again...

Unless there is a court order that states specifically that the NCP CANNOT have access to school or medical records it is the LAW that they are provided by both school and dr. to NCP upon request.
Title: *LOL* ok...
Post by: SLYarnell on Jan 14, 2005, 11:03:33 AM
Its always good to start out with the "I can tell by you're sloppiness and just plain disrespect for proper grammer that you read my post and got all offended. "

whats up with the you're in that sentence??

I can tell by you are sloppiness??

If you cant come up with anything else use the sloppiness and improper grammer routine, it works every time...
Title: RE: mother doesnt know when to stop
Post by: foughtandwon on Jan 14, 2005, 11:06:43 AM
ok the whole CPS/custody case is over for me and my son.
it was kinda of a weird thing where i was charged witht he same stuff she was. fine i got a court appointed lawyer that way. now the mother was given a case plan and she messed it up. i followed up and completed mine before deploying to iraq.
while in iraq she continued to mess up on her case plan and claimed i wasnt the father. upon returning form iraq i took a dna test and was proven to be the father. the mother again kept screwing up her case plan. only after about the 100th time of her messing up i was looked at for custody. it was found that the only reason i wasnt given custody was due to a legal impediment. well after filing more paper work and crap that part was taken care of. it then came down to a custody matter and the courts found it to be in my sons best intrest to be with me.
now the only reason she is still involved with cps is because she still has a daughter in the states custody.
talking to cps the only reason her daughter hasnt been put up for adoption yet is because they know the great grandmother will adopt and that would put the little girl right back in the same place she came from. so i guess they are determined to show her what she is doing wrong and correct it for the little girls best interest.
so all custody matters on me and my son are done(for now anyway i know it will never be done) theis was a a final decsion not a temp custody thing.

now the way i see they only way she could try and get custody back is to. complete her case plan for her daughter. prove her self as a fit mother and then try and take me to court and prove me unfit (or prove it to be in my sons best intrest)

with her extended cps case i find it hard to belive that she would have a chance at all. throw these false reports she has made on top of theat and its really an up hill batlle.

i make sure to allow her contact with my son via phone calls once a week and well visits but thats kinda pending right now

reasonable parenting time leaves it wide open.
i thought  13 days over x mas was reasonable and the 5 weeks in the summer is now looking beyond reasonable.  at the most i will send my son to my dad give her a schedule of when she can pick him up and drop him off. for 2 reasons one to stop her from making more false reports and becasue she always comes up with excuses why she cant drop him by to see my dad.


Title: RE: *LOL* ok...
Post by: Robityson1 on Jan 14, 2005, 11:08:25 AM
I admit it was my turn to be sloppy and it makes me look like an idiot in my response but what about everything else I said.  No comment?
Title: RE: you just dont get it!
Post by: Davy on Jan 14, 2005, 11:12:30 AM
Exactly !  That's exactly what the legal statue plainly states.  Since the CO is SILENT then it does not SPECIFICALLY STATE so the parent can have access.  Joni and Sly are correct.

Foughtandone acknowledged appreciation for the reference and clarity on the legal statue and even stated he intended to cooperate with the mother's access to the school records irregardless of what the statue stated and she has that access from the school.  

The real issue of this entire thread was how to STOP the mother from pestering him for the school records, filing false reports, etc etc etc in order TO PROTECT THE CHILD and HIMSELF from the PBFH.
Title: RE: mother doesnt know when to stop
Post by: Davy on Jan 14, 2005, 12:22:14 PM
Foughtandone

First I want to applaud your service to the rest of us and for being there and taking a stand for your child.  It certainly appears you are totally together on all the issues.  I would also like to applaud your spouse for supporting you thru these difficult times.

There was one thing you asked I did not see addressed.  Under the premises of the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction Enforcement Act (UCCJA/UCCJEA) the original jurisdiction will maintain jurisdiction as long as one parent remains in the jurisdiction... generally speaking  but (there's always a but) judges can agree lose/gain jurisdiction based on the child's 'significant connection' to another states and for other reasons.  There's information on SPARC about this or you can search the net.  I'm just a Dad..not an attorney.  

I have no idea how to stop a psycho female from saying or doing anything they want at anytime.  If you discover a cure please let the rest of us know !!

In the day, female military were known as WACKs, WAVEs, WAFs but no one was ever able to tell me what you should call a female marine.  Do you know ???
Title: RE: *LOL* ok...
Post by: SLYarnell on Jan 14, 2005, 02:20:50 PM
Do I have sympathy for this father?  You betcha!
Do I want a child hurt by ANY parent?  Not a chance!

Do I think this is going to get a fair shake in the court system?  NOPE!

Anyone who knows me or our situation or has followed my posts for over 4 years now will tell you I am almost always the negative voice saying beware, be careful, cooperate, watch your back.

Why?

Well... because my husband has been screwed and screwed again by the system.  We have spent in excess of $80,000 to fight a case that should have been a slam dunk years ago.  But it wasnt and we are still fighting!

I hate to see anyone tell someone something like you told the original poster because it builds false hope... this is a VERY fragile situation and it needs very careful handling!  We dont want him to feel entitled to withhold access to this child from the mother.  If he does that without the benefit of a court order stating he can do so he will lose that child... that is almost guarenteed!
Title: RE: you just dont get it!
Post by: lucky on Jan 14, 2005, 05:06:57 PM
Ok, here's the deal.

Dh is NCP of an 11 yo boy.  He has ALWAYS been NCP and pbfh#2 has ALWAYS had SOLE LEGAL and SOLE PHYSICAL custody of yss.

Dh has ALWAYS had FULL ACCESS to ALL educational, medical, dental, etc. records in spite of pbfh#2 trying to deny those records.

This is because FERPA overrides all other laws that do not allow at least the amount of access FERPA allows.

Therefore, this little boy's mother CAN get copies of ALL those records no matter WHERE on US soil he attends school or sees a medical professional.

[em]Lucky

Lead your life so you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family parrot to the town gossip.
- Will Rogers[em]
Title: RE: you just dont get it!
Post by: olanna on Jan 14, 2005, 11:54:57 PM
"The real issue of this entire thread was how to STOP the mother from pestering him for the school records, filing false reports, etc etc etc in order TO PROTECT THE CHILD and HIMSELF from the PBFH."

And if any of us had any idea on how to do this with any success, we wouldn't need to come to this board...

;)
Title: TO Rob
Post by: wendl on Jan 16, 2005, 11:46:31 AM
In Slys defence.

Anyone that knows Sly will tell you she does not sugar coat ANYTHING, she may come agaisnt hard etc, We may not like or agree with what Sly says but I have come to realize what Slys says is the TRUTH and she has helped me out a great deal over the last 3 1/2yrs.

Sly is a great person and knows a ton of stuff, she doesn't give people false hope and is all for kids having relationships with both parents. Her husband has gone thru hell and back and has learned the hard way.

PS-Sly has anything else happened in court, I know you all were going back.

**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**
Title: RE: you just dont get it!
Post by: Brent on Jan 17, 2005, 07:22:06 AM
UNLESS there is a court order SPECIFICALLY stating that the NCP does NOT have a right to school or medical records then FERPA APPLIES

That's right, plain and simple- if there is no order specifically and explicitly denying the NCP access to the records, they have the right to them.
Title: The Horse Is Dead Now...You Can Stop Beating It!
Post by: jilly on Jan 17, 2005, 10:36:38 AM
:*
Title: RE: mother doesnt know when to stop
Post by: foughtandwon on Jan 18, 2005, 12:20:52 PM
>Foughtandone
>
>First I want to applaud your service to the rest of us and for
>being there and taking a stand for your child.  It certainly
>appears you are totally together on all the issues.  I would
>also like to applaud your spouse for supporting you thru these
>difficult times.
>
>There was one thing you asked I did not see addressed.  Under
>the premises of the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction
>Enforcement Act (UCCJA/UCCJEA) the original jurisdiction will
>maintain jurisdiction as long as one parent remains in the
>jurisdiction... generally speaking  but (there's always a but)
>judges can agree lose/gain jurisdiction based on the child's
>'significant connection' to another states and for other
>reasons.  There's information on SPARC about this or you can
>search the net.  I'm just a Dad..not an attorney.  
>
>I have no idea how to stop a psycho female from saying or
>doing anything they want at anytime.  If you discover a cure
>please let the rest of us know !!
>
>In the day, female military were known as WACKs, WAVEs, WAFs
>but no one was ever able to tell me what you should call a
>female marine.  Do you know ???

thanks
I'm working hard on a cure. just tryting to figure out this time travel machine the instructions are in korean.
i kinda figured i would have to go to court to change jurisdiction. i'm gonna wait till my next duty station (5 months) and change my residency and everything

female Marine????
when i first joined they were called WM's Women Marines
now they are simply MARINES


Title: RE: Agree - that's what I understand ....
Post by: Troubledmom on Jan 19, 2005, 11:31:51 PM
>i will record her next call to my son and ask her for the
>doctor info again.
>that way if she refuses i can catch it on tape.

Prior to recording calls ENSURE it is legal in your state and her state OR you could end up in jail.

Here is a link to each states laws for taping conversations
http://www.rcfp.org/taping/index.html

TM