I'm curious to know how the rest of you handle 'secrets'.
This weekend he slipped and told me about an expensive item his mom purchased. He said he wasn't supposed to tell 'because it costed a lot of money'. (and probably because she just submitted a financial statement that definitely does not justify the purchase) The only problem is that he was excited about it, so he wanted to share. I tried to explain to him that it is not his fault he slipped and that no adult should be asking him to keep secrets, because he's just a kid. But I don't think it helped.
Any suggestions on how to help my son not feel guilty when he slips? (for the record, no, I am not pumping him for info)
"Remember, I don't live that way. You can feel free to share everything with your dad."
During the worst of the 'secrets' incidents we dealt with, I went through a conversation with the kids about good secrets and bad secrets.
We talked about good secrets being surprises that make people happy when they find out, like birthday presents or a party and it is important not to tell those secrets until it is time. Bad secrets were things that made them feel uncomfortable or hurt inside and someone could get hurt if they didn't tell.
We also talked about how sometimes someone would ask us to keep a secret we don't know for sure is good or bad because it was a secret that made us feel special that we knew the secret but we feel bad we can't share it with someone special to us. We talked about how when it was a secret like that, we would have to decide if someone would get hurt if we shared (or didn't share) the secret.
We also talked about what confidentiality is and when we had to keep something confidential and when we had to tell someone something no matter what and I let the kids know what would be confidential and what I would have to say something to someone else about when they told me.
TM
I have seen this many many times with both my daughter and my step children. It amazes me the things that parents tell their kids to keep secret in the first place. Who really cares?!
My DD would come home from her BF's and I would ask "how was your weekend?" She would just say fine. "Did you do anything?" We went to Grandmas house. I would say Cool how is Grandma doing and then DD would say why do you have to ask so many questions? It is non of your business what I do when I am with my dad and I don't like you asking questions!!
Well alright then! LOL
So what do you do? If you never ask then you don't care and if you do ask then you are asking about things that are non of your business. Including a visit to grandma's house.
My step children often "slip" as you put it and immediately cover their mouths and look at each other with their eyes wide... Opps
Then the others will step in and tell the one who slipped that, that didn't happen or that they are lying. It can be pretty messy.
So what I usually do is tell them that we already knew about what ever it is. Many times we do already know because their mom tells them not to tell us things that we already know about. It is really stupid. By telling the kids that we already knew and that it is either okay or it doesn't matter then they usually feel better about the slip and go on about their business. (One slip was my SD said something about her niece and all the kids got this scared look on their faces like they had just let a giant cat out of the bag. I asked what was wrong and SD said they weren't supposed to tell us about her. I reminded SD that they were with us on a visit when the niece was born so we already knew about her.)
BM has the kids all upset thinking they have to keep everything a secret and once the kids know we already know about that and know that the world didn't come to an end because they slipped, then things are better.
Your son is bringing up financial matters. My advice would be two things. Think about how you would feel if every purchase you made was scrutenized (sp) by the ex. The second would be don't ever use what your son has told you against his mother. If she is doing something that she shouldn't be, then it is completely up to you and your attorney to get that information. Your son would never trust you again if he knew that something he told you was used to hurt his mother.
Good luck
KB
I'm on the NCP side, as the stepmom. We have a rule w/ my stepdaughter that what she does with Dad stays with Dad, and what she does with Mom stays with Mom. We repeatedly tell her that something falls under Mom's business is she "slips" as you calls it. This is done for a very definite reason. Each time Mom has taken Dad to court, she fills her certifications with stories that my sd has shared which either Mom twists out of shape, or sd has misunderstood in some way. Most recently, these stories were used to accuse my husband and I of verbal and mental abuse and resulted in six months of no-contact with my sd, followed by five months of one 8 hour time period every weekend, finally culminating in every professional involved saying that there is no abuse on our parts. And this is because my sd shares things w/her mom. We tell her that we love to hear about her. We love to hear about school, and her friends, and her pets. We don't love to hear about her mom's boyfriend, or personal life, or even the ways in which Mom parents her, unless it is somehow affecting sd. She knows that if she is being hurt, or if she is sad about something, she can and should tell us. But telling us details puts us in a position often of flat-out contradicting Mom's parenting, and when done in the reverse, gives Mom shreds of truth with which to mount her wars. All of the things my sd says to her are easily explainable in the right context, but when you are put into a position of constantly explaining what really happened, it has a way of making it seem like you are "spinning" things in your favor.
It is not wrong to ask the kids to allow your business to stay your business, and that their business with their other parent stay theirs. Our counselor agrees, and has affirmed it to the sd, saying that overall, she will have less stress about the situation knowing that she doesn't have to worry about what her mom might do with information that she unwittingly provides. The only questions really that are acceptable at the end of the visit are, "Did you have a good time?" Otherwise, there is a real possibility that the things your ex does with your child will color the way you treat him in the future, and are also things that will be colored by the unhappiness caused by your breakup.
My 2 cents...
>>>"We went to Grandmas house. I would say Cool how is Grandma doing and then DD would say why do you have to ask so many questions? It is non of your business what I do when I am with my dad and I don't like you asking questions!!"<<<
In that case, you might have taken a slightly different response. Something like, Oh good, I know how much you love seeing her. I hope she is doing well. That way yu are not asking questions, just making conversation.
Good luck & God bless.
You never get a second chance to make a first impression!
THe Las Vegas Rule
What happens here stays here.
now.. I have 2 stepchildren with 2 different bm (yes I know fun fun fun) both of the mothers tell the kids to keep secrets and when they slip, we just tell them that if its a good thing it shouldnt be a secret,and that there is nothing that we say that cant be repeated, we notice that this relieves alot of stress for the kids as they are not trying to keep everyones secrets straight.... just yesterday my dear stepson told me, gee your not as dumb as my grandma says you are.(bm's,mother.. HATES dh and I(cause shes a control freak who controls every aspect of her daughters life and we will not allow her to control us or our relationship with ss)). I about fell over laughing, I figure kids are pretty smart and if given the right information as to what is right and what is wrong that they will figure it out for themselves and when there older looking back, it wasnt dad and I who did the secret telling trash talking, therefore no resentment towards us.
good luck
>now.. I have 2 stepchildren with 2 different bm (yes I know
>fun fun fun) both of the mothers tell the kids to keep secrets
>and when they slip, we just tell them that if its a good thing
>it shouldnt be a secret,and that there is nothing that we say
>that cant be repeated, we notice that this relieves alot of
>stress for the kids as they are not trying to keep everyones
>secrets straight.... just yesterday my dear stepson told me,
>gee your not as dumb as my grandma says you are.(bm's,mother..
>HATES dh and I(cause shes a control freak who controls every
>aspect of her daughters life and we will not allow her to
>control us or our relationship with ss)). I about fell over
>laughing, I figure kids are pretty smart and if given the
>right information as to what is right and what is wrong that
>they will figure it out for themselves and when there older
>looking back, it wasnt dad and I who did the secret telling
>trash talking, therefore no resentment towards us.
>
>good luck
Remember though that in many families, it is not "trash talking" that we are trying to maintain our privacy on... it is everyday events that will be twisted to insinuate that there is abuse when there is none. Just as not all CPs are evil witches, not all NCPs are abusive...
:-)
Thank You all for your suggestions! I knew I would get some good ideas from the forum!
My X also does this. One time when I wasn't supposed to be seeing my daughter, because X was mad at me, I brought her home from my parents house. She said I will just tell mom that G & G brought me home and you were just making sure that I got in the house OK. I said no, we aren't going to lie, tell her that I came to see you and brought you home. She said, but mom will be mad. I sad then let her be mad at me, it's not your fault. But we are not going to lie.
She was 5 at the time.
"Teach your children to lie for you and you are teaching them to lie to you." unknown author
My stepdaughter's life at her mother's is one big secret, from what she ate for dinner, to what she did on the weekend. We find out about her playing soccer when my husband finally makes phone contact and she says she didn't get his msgs b/c she was at soccer practice. We tell her that there is nothing we do at our house with her (activities, special events) that are secret. There is nothing that we do with her that should be kept secret, otherwise we wouldn't be doing it. It is her choice whether or not she wants to tell her mother what she did with us, and it's her choice whether she wants to tell us what she does at her mother's. If I ask her something and she doesn't want to answer or has been told not to tell, then she can tell me "let's talk about something else, or I don't want to talk about it."
I think secrets are ridiculous and immature. This isn't grade school! Parents need to work together to communicate and be on the same page or else the children are going to learn to use that to their advantage.
Secrets just make things uncomfortable for everybody.
This is the most commonsensed approach I have ever heard. Unfortunately, the "professionals" I have dealt with call it" keeping secrets". My X uses the kids as spys. has done it for 8 years. My Dh is a recovering alcoholic and each and every slip over the last 8 years has made its way into a cusotody confrence to such an extent that i will never see my kids more than EOW.
I should tell you that my Dh and i have two young children and have never been investigated my CYS except for whe X called them and that was unfounded. My Dh also had a clean child abuse clearance.
My children feel it is somehow thier duty to report each and every thing my husband says or does.
This has resulted in so much stress in our marriage that I consider it a miracle that he ever put more than two days of sobriety together.
My Dh is an excellent father to our two children and this has been documented by a custody evaluator. But my older children of my first marriage will never know what it is to live with us becasue an ultra conservative judge listens with rapt attention when my X says, " Well, I have it on good authority that Dh's last drink was on XX/XX/XX.
Oh, I should say that X takes the children to parties at his in-laws where the adults get so drunk that the kids aren't permitted in the room. Instead they watch the antics from the grate in the floor of an upstaris bedroom. but none of these people are diagnosed as alcoholics, so it is OK by the judge.
My X has also allowed the children read custoy evlauation reports. I feel in the grad scheme of things, what my X does by getting the childrent o report to him is far more damaging to the kids than any drinking my Dh ever did.
If the what happens at dad's stays at dad's and the what happens at mom's stays at mom's approach were maore widespread then I am sure my children would have had a happier, healthier childhood.
My X tryed the "its non of your dads business what you do while your not with him" route. I squashed that idea realy quick. I made it clear that it was my business, right and duty to be in the know of everthing as it related to my kids. Just as it would be if me and my X where still together. No matter where they where, be it Moms, Gradmas , friends everywhere! Thats right I wanted to know who, what, when and who. Who came and went from Moms house, where they spent there time, who they spent there time with, Moms friends names, friends parents everthing. I also made it clear that my X was more than welcome and in fact encouraged to know the same about my home.
Of course this was brought up in Court as an example of how I was abusive and controlling. I told the Judge basicly evrthing I just typed. Its not about control its about PROTECTION of my children period!!
I really hate to be the bad guy here but I absolutely DISAGREE with the theory that a child should not communicate regarding the issues at mom's/dad's. My daughter is a big one for keeping secrets as her mom is constantly telling her "Don't tell daddy or he'll take you away from me." I spent 3 months trying to figure out why my daughter cried every time I asked her a simple question about anything that went on during her "Mom's Time". Something as simple as a television program she had wanted to watch caused her to break down. Come to find out her mom's boyfriend is highly abusive and has assualted her mom with a knife on multiple occasions as well as threatened to kill her, choked her and tried to slit their dog's throat. They recently split up but the ex has began living with them again and my daughter's mom had threatened her not to tell me. I don't care if I make the biggest mistake of my life, I never tell my daughter not to tell her mom anything. We are her parents and she should be able to talk to us about anything. I would never be upset with her for telling her mom my business. I make documentation of everything so that if my x tries to use something Haley has told her against me I can prove that she has misconstrued or misinterpreted the information. Teaching your children to keep mom's business at mom's is only causing them to keep things bottled up inside. I would suggest talking to your son and telling him that he can talk to you about anything. Explain to him that you love him and that you aren't going to be mad at his mom about silly things. If the time comes that one of these secrets causes you to take legal action then explain to your son that you are only concerned for his safety and well being and that you will do your best to work this situation out with his mommy. If the situation doesn't affect your son, and his mom's expenditures probably don't, then don't even bother making an issue out of it. That has worked wonder's with my daughter. I also suggested that she see a counselor in order to work out some of the things that she has bottled up inside. She has been told to tell so many lies she doesn't even remember what she told us the week before. SECRETS are not the way to handle anyone's business.
James
KB said "why do you have to ask so many questions? It is non of your business what I do when I am with my dad (or mom, in my case) and I don't like you asking questions!!"
That must be in the divorced parent's handbook, because it is exactly the same thing I have heard from my daughter.
Our stance is this: there is NOTHING going on in our house that you cannot tell Mom. If we punish you, tell your Mom. If we argue, tell your Mom. If someone does something to hurt your feelings, tell your Mom. But tell her the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. PLEASE tell her WHY we punish you; WHAT we were arguing about, and HOW it was resolved; how WE responded to someone hurting your feelings.
This life is extremely hard on the kids, without feeling like they have to "hide" a big part of their lives, from their parent, no less. Finally had to sit daughter down one night the week, and gently ask her if some of the things I have been hearing are true, and how she feels about them. She has been a much happier, more relaxed child since that night.
What My atty said
" The hearsay testimony of children is not admissable ';
And " The judge would be pissed if you tryed it "
Reality is . What good is the information ?
I don't think it will flip any financial statement , Soo Why not just leave the child out of it , My son tells me things , And I too wonder . And I too ask him ,
But then end result is " What good is the info ?
Your post reminds me of something I was told by a aquaintance / Friend ,Who is a Psychiatrist ,
" Ity's My job to make my son feel comfortable at my house "
And he said it won't do any good to talk to my son about this stuff any way ,
So Believe it or not This Making him comfortable works the best and we have A better relationship when I leave it alone ,
however I have had to try to be as mild as I can and straighten out some of the total BS He hears at his mother's . But I try to keep it simple and tell him he isn't going to getin trouble etc , And it's ok to talk ,
I have found that when I just have a good time with my son the CRAP !!!! that come from Mom is way down on the scale /
Heck the Mom has him in counseling .
I think it has back fired on her because He told me his mom has quit the crappolla ,
I think what happened is , This l
I don't talk bad about the mom , And she does it , I think this comes out at counseling ,