Hello,
My wife and I have been happily married for almost 10 years. Or so I thought. Everything was fine last Sunday when she left to take the kids to her mother's house near Atlanta. We spoke Sunday night, Monday and Tuesday, and everything was fine. On Wedensday, she called and said she wanted a divorce. It took a couple of days for that to sink in, but by Friday, I was in a panic about my 3 kids that are with her. On Friday, she told me she was not bringing them home. Ever. I pleaded with her to be reasonable, but it's had no effect. It's sunday afternoon and they should have been home by now. I spoke to her and she talked to a family friend who is an attorney and that he said she is fine and not to worry about keeping them.
I am an independent software developer. I've been fortunate enough to be able to work from for the last 5+ years so that I could play a huge part in the lives of my kids. This is their home. I want them back home with me. I don't think they should be made victims of this. They need stability and familiarity.
I know this is a crime in Missouri, but I live in Tennessee. Any advice or ideas on what to do would be appreicated!
You can file in your state because she has not been in the new state for 6 months. Others will help you but I know you can file in your state for temporary custody and force her to come back to TN to deal with custody/visitation.
The last poster is right. File in your state.
Also, How old are your kids? Make sure they know that your filing to make mom at least come back to tenn. and deal with the issue. Depending on their age ask them who they want to live with and if they say mom then unless she's not a good parent then don't fight them on it. If she wants out then let her get out but make sure you secure a relationship with your children. Be sure to get as much time with them as you can if they aren't living with you and I can't say it enough times...DOCUMENT ALL YOUR TIME WITH THEM!!! You may need to fall back on it in the future.
If you want to be near your children then you have to somehow get along with mom.
This is going to rock your world and their's also, so just keep looking at your children and as long as they are smiling back at you then your making good choices for them. Even if they end up living with mom. Keep us posted as to your developments.
Good Luck to You and Yours,
Maid Marion
If nothing is filed yet, get her to let you come and just take the kids for a brief visit dinner, movie or to a park etc etc. Then take the kids home and file in your home court for temp custody based on her abandoment of you and the kids.
Check with Soc on how best to do this!
Good luck!
If nothing is filed yet, get her to let you come and just take the kids for a brief visit dinner, movie or to a park etc etc. Then take the kids home and file in your home court for temp custody based on her abandoment of you and the kids.
Check with Soc on how best to do this!
Good luck!
If nothing is filed yet, get her to let you come and just take the kids for a brief visit dinner, movie or to a park etc etc. Then take the kids home and file in your home court for temp custody based on her abandoment of you and the kids.
Check with Soc on how best to do this!
Good luck!
IF YOU CAN AFFORD AN ATTORNEY - GET ONE ASAP. DON'T WAIT FOR THE ATTORNEY TO FILE FOR EMERGENCY CUSTODY.
Go to your court and file an emergency ex-parte motion for custody. Your grounds that the children are better with you is that the mother has deserted the family and removed the children from their stable home environment. Also, get your divorce filed for on the grounds of desertion or whatever terms apply in your state. There should be a pro-se office in your court house, ask them for assistance. If not, explain to the clerk.
If you plan on hiring an attorney - do so asap and give him/her copies of your filings so they can proceed accordingly.
Now, do you have ANY idea why she left? It is time for you to document and assemble your proof of anything that she has done that is not in the best interest of the children and detrimental to the marriage. Can you search your computer to see if there is any evidence on there of her planning to leave. Being you are a software guy, you should know how to find all those secret places the computer hides things I would hope.
I don't believe this meets the level of a crime because there isn't an established order designating custody yet. You need to get that in place asap.
ALSO - I HIGHLY suggest you post on Socrateaser's board for guidance. Remember to read the guidelines for posting.
Keep us updated - there are many here who have experience with what you are going through.
Remember - DO not EVER lose your temper. Do NOT EVER involve the children (I do not agree with Maid Marion about asking the kids who they want to live with), and make sure you keep your nose squeeky clean cause the mud will be flying. PS - do what you can now to protect your assets also.
This is just my opinion - not legal advice.
We are all hoping things work out for the best.
Maid Marion,
I have to respectfully disagree here. IMHO: Involving the children is not a good idea. Especially now, when things are highly emotionally charged. Those kinds of actions could be used against him at a later date. Better to leave the kids out of it. You are right about spending as much time as possible with them and reassuring them that he loves them. The ugly details of mom and dad's divorce are better left unsaid. I am sure mom is saying enough already. Those kids have got to be wondering by now why they aren't going back home.
We don't know, the mom may have good reason for leaving (not making any accusations about the original poster here) HOWEVER, running away is not the way to do it unless there is physical abuse and even then, the distance is still not good. She should have made other arrangements if she desired to divorce her husband.
Wrenching the children from their normal environment is not what a good parent normally does. Good parents act in their child's best interest. Clearly, this is not what is happening here. Just laying down and letting the kids go with mom is not always the best choice. Besides, we don't know her earning capacity, environment kids will be raised in, etc. She may have been an excellent parent up until the day she left and now all that may have changed. He doesn't know that because he is not living with her anymore.
You say that the poster should just let his wife out of the marriage, but to secure a relationship with his children. Well, you never know what demands some people place on their spouse while divorcing. He has to make sure they reach a settlement he can live with and that doesn't ruin him financially or place his children out of his reach. Atlanta is a good distance even if you are at the closest point in Tenn.
You are right about documenting.
"If you want to be near your children then you have to somehow get along with mom" - I have to tell you that was the statement that got to me the most. I have spent many years trying in every way possible to "get along" with my ex and SHE has chosen to be bitter and vengeful. Her choice is not my responsibility. HOWEVER, I have done everything I can to make sure the relationship with my child is maintained despite the wishes of the mother. And at this point, there is a custody modification in process that I am very positive about and more importantly will put my child in a much better environment to live in. The fact that the modification has proceeded against her is a direct result of her failure to get along with me on any level. Some people will never be reasonable and do what is best for the kids no matter what the cost (to themselves or their children and THAT is NOT good parenting).
Filing for temp. custody and having the children returned to their home and normal environment is what is best for them. Everything else can be worked out as the process is plodding along. If he waits for a divorce and normal custody hearings to take place, months will have gone by and she may very well have the legal time in Atlanta for residency.
It is best for him to keep his communications with his soon to be ex as business like as possible to protect himself.
Please don't be offended. Just letting you know that there is another side to consider.
Thanks notnew!
Things are happening really fast right now. I met with an attorney this morning, but there won't be a judge around for us to apear before until tommorow morning, which is upsetting, but I guess I have no recourse but to wait.
As of this moment, she is scrambling to lock me out of a shared paypal account we have been using that has the money I need to pay the retainer to my attorney. She reported my card lost which of course is a big lie, and she even called the phone company to have them disconnect my phone and internet service. I'm there's more too that I just have not learned about yet. I'm literally reeling from the shock that she could stoop to these levels. Even this morning, after all of this, I would not have thought she would do these things...
Oh, and FWIW, the PayPal account was empty when she left. The funds in their today were from a client who has faithfully paid via that account for some time now. I just didn't want anyone to think that it was her money that was in there...
I'll post more later tonight.
Thanks for the support and advice guys!
Not offended at all. I should have put it a different way. I ment that if the kids do ask what's going on then depending on their age he can tell them that what he is doing is just trying to make sure that he will still be in their lives. If they don't ask then definately don't offer and even if they do ask, somethings, I agree are better left unsaid.
As far as getting along with mom. I indeed know how strenous that can be. My Ex had placement of our child because he was the stay home dad. We had joint custody but he didn't care. He pushed me around for 2 years. I jumped through so many hoops because of him it is ridiculous. However, when he did things that were destructive to my relationship with our child then I took him to court. And I won almost 99% everytime because the court could see how unreasonable he was being and making really bad choices for our child. Eventually he completely disregarded the judges ruling on a relocation trial and he left anyways. He is now facing Child snatching charges and I have sole custody of our child.
Believe me, I definately can understand the NCP's side. Male or female.
You sound like a wise person. Your advise is good. Thanks for sharing.
Maid Marion
Call paypal and let them know what is going on. freeze the account and open a new one immediately. You will have to adivse your client(s) of the new payment method and apologize for the inconvenience.
Contact the phone companies and internet people and establish accounts in your name only. IMPORTANT: Tell the phone company you want a PIC Freeze on your account and that they have to contact you at a certain phone # to verify any changes before they go into effect.
Any accounts you hold jointly with your wife, you must close and re-open new. Credit, savings, retirement, all. Don't fool around with this - she knows what she is doing.
Sounds like you live in a rural area. Nice for living, but not great when these types of things happen. I can't help but think of the scenario in the Wild West Days when you waited around in jail until the judge came around to try all the cases that built up.
The attorney will know what to do to help protect your assets. Also, VERY important - have the attorney ask in filings to have your wife pay your attorney fees. Even if she is ordered to pay half in the end - that will save a little $$. You had to retain the attorney due to her actions, not your own.
We'll be looking forward to hearing how things are going.
Im in the same boat live in Tn and Kids are in Ks. You need to go get those kids enroll them in school and keep being the solid parent in the relationship. They need their father just as much as the mother!!!!
it is only kidnapping if the person without custody refuses to return children to person who has custody.
And she is right. She is fine keeping the kids with her. When I divorced I wanted to get temp custody papers right away and my attorney said not to worry about it. The parent who has the children with them is considered to have custody during the proceedings. It was true. I am in IL though.
So I would file for divorce right away to make sure that TN retains jurisdiction at this time. She would have to wait 6 mos to file in the state she is for that state to have jurisdiction. Now this isn't a guarantee that MO will not say GA should have jurisdiction sometime during the proceedings since the kids are there. You should ask that she needs to return the children to TN but there is no guarantee that will happen either. The longer she stays there, the more likely is will be that she can and will keep the children there.
So get ready for a fight but don't be disappointed when it doesn't come out in your favor. Sorry have to be realistic here too. I would work on getting a joint custody and visitation schedule in place you are happy with.
Try to work on getting along right now and foraging a working relationship too. Let her know you accept her decision right now even though you don't understand it and tell her you miss the children and would like to work something out to see them soon. If you aren't confrontational right off the bat, maybe you guys can come to an understanding and work out the details in a way you are both somewhat happy and keep to the schedule and the children won't be hurt or put in the middle.
And then maybe you and your wife can start talking in the future as to her choice and see if you can work that out too. I see so much fighting and court battles and denying and putting the children in the middle and arguing that it is sickening. I truly believe some divorces don't have to turn out that way if all that is put aside and things start out on the right foot. Now you shouldn't be a doormat and have her walk all over you through this but I would give it a try to some degree and see what happens. You may be surprised. But do what you need to to protect yourself as well in the mean time.
It's time for the kidnapping to stop. It's not kidnapping by the way the courts see it...but to the victimized parent, there is no other way to see it. I am tired of seeing the abuse that "women" use to play the system. I say "women" because I have yet to see a "MAN" use this tactic. It is taught or HACKding in their mindset that it is their right. It really irks me to see the courts not address this for what it is. Because, If a "man" did this he would be jailed. I know for sure in my case that I would have been jailed for doing what my daughter's mother did.
My suggestion: File Ex Parte emergency custody order, will be denied but documented, it will establish jurisdiction in your state. File for full custody. Establish Parenting time as soon as possible. However, if she is planning on living in the other state and the courts believe that she will end up living in the other state with the children and custody, then the other state may obtain jurisdiction because it would be a more convenient forum, although your state will initially have jurisdiction.
Search for the term 'custodial interference' and see how that might pertain to your situation and Your State. Document, Document, Document. Use a time tracker to help keep things organized and you sane. Eat, sleep, rest, take care of yourself. Take Care of Yourself! Trust me been there, done did it. Always take a witness on pickups and dropoffs. ALWAYS.
Coder? me too. hmmm...
FYI: I am not an attorney, lawyer, or paid liar.
It's FatherTime
and it happens alot and often. We just don't hear it on this board b/c it doesn't want to be heard. Maybe that is why some Moms do this b/c they are afraid that Dad will take the kids from them b/c they can and have the money etc. We all give advice to Dad's here to protect themselves against the bad BM. Well, the BM is just protecting herself in return. Both sides are not right on the tactics that are used. And both sides ultimately lose no matter the outcome.
Remember not every Dad is a deadbeat and not every Mom is "vindictive" and use the kids to "play the system". The faster this is realized, the faster things can be worked out in a better way for all.
I'm finally back online!!!
This has been the most insane week or two in my entire life. I can't imagine anything more difficult for a person to go through...
Sorry if this sounds a bit scattered, but there is a lot I want to relay...
She had been insisting that she wanted a divorce becuase she wanted a better life for her and our kids. I tried so hard to understand this, but it didn't make sense to me. We made literally every single decsion in our lives together, and have never really fought about money. I make decent money, but sometimes it is sporadic, and when things get tight, it is stressful, but we just stressed out together and never really fought about it. Of course there have been so many times that things were more than great finacially, in my mind it has always balanced out.
Her clinical way of discussing it, and refusing to show even the slightest desire to talk to anyone, or do anything to try to work through this has been perplexing, frustrating and painful to say the least.
I met with four different attorney's here before I found the one guy I believe is truly capable of dealing with this for me.
Monday, she called and disconnected the phone and internet, my cellphone, and reported my debit cards lost/stolen. I immediately called and re-ordered new service, but they can't get it on till the 16th. These three things she did, caused me such intense grief, I can't even begin to explain. My entire professional existance is channeled to the rest of the world through the internet, and losing it like that, at a time when I desparately need to come up with as much cash as I can was intensely painful.
Today, while copying some of the kids photos off of her computer, I realized she may have discussed this with hre friends on MSN. Hoping to gain some more insight into what went wrong, I started reading the chat transcripts. Lo an behold, I discovered she had met a guy in Second Life and had chatted with him breifly on MSN. It was a short exchange, but it revealed the depth of their relationship and discussed how she could not chat with him on MSN, because she was afraid I'd find out.
Rewind a bit. I knew she met the guy on SecondLife, but it's a social thing, and I'm not really that possesive. When I started waking up at night and finding her on Second Life at 1 or 2 in the morning, I got a bit concerned, and asked her to quit. She agreed. I found her chatting with him one other time after that about a week or two before she left, and we did sort of but heads on it that time. She said he approached her and she was just being polite, or something to that effect.
So, it turns out she has been having late night online rendevous with this guy. I'm am almost positive that she told me that he lives about 20 minutes from her mother's house, so now it all starts becoming clear...
Ok. My lawyer filed for divorce yesterday, citing improper marital conduct and irreconcilable differences. He set up a pendente lite hearing for the 20th. She should be served sometime early next week. My attorney says I have an excellent chance of getting at least 50/50, but I have huge concerns about that.
She and I had previously agreed that she would brings the kids this weekend to give me a chance to talk to them and just spend some time while she picked up some of her crap. Today, now that she found out I am seeking full custody, she freaked out and is refusing to bring them this weekend. She changed her cell phone number and won't give me the new number either.
I confronted her very gently about the relationship with this guy and she did not deny it, but wouldn't talk to me about it.
So -- my position on the kids and custody is this. If she would agree to come back to this county to live, I'd agree to 50/50 custody. If she insists on living in GA, then I don't want to subject the kids to that. It would be a 12 hour round-trip to go back and forth. It would prevent them from joing dance, or karate, or swimming, and it obviously wouldn't work come the start of school. I want them in a stable environment, and if she insists on living in GA, then full custody with me is the only thing that makes sense. Frankly, I can't understand how a judge could disagree with that, but I know very little about this...
Now that I'm back online, I will post more as this unfolds. Cross your fingers that my kids end up the winners in this thing!
Thanks for all the advice guys!
Is she living with her mother now? She could say that you are getting a divorce and the only option is to live with her mother (which the court might consider). If you could prove that she ran off to live with the on-line boyfriend that would probably help. Your lawyer has to be quick (and court gets delayed/postponed or continued for months sometimes) because it will be hard to get them back once she enrolls them and they start school again. Does she have a lawyer? I do not understand what 50/50 you are going for since you are in different states. Good luck!
Yes, she is living with her mother, but based on what I know now, being close to this new guy in her life is clearly a big part of her decision.
I'm taking this new info back to the lawyer Monday, but I don't think we could prove this by the 20th.
I want full custody if she insists on living in Georga, but would seriously consider 50/50 if she comes back here to live in the same county.
She had a call with an attorney (from TN) today, but I don't if she's hired him or even has the money to.
Does she take everything with her? I would think that she is not coming back unless the courts force her. If she gets a lawyer, they will want to drag their feet until school starts again. I would come up with a detailed vistation plan to hand the judge of what you would want for her visitation if she was out of state. Be liberal with it and show you are willing to work with her but that the kids have their roots in your hometown. Give her a big chunk of summer, exteneded vacations from school, and if she ever came to your town (with notice). Be very specific....dates/times/who picks up. Then in your back pocket I would have the schedule you would want if she was given custody. She should have to pay for all travel or bring them since she moved out of state. Use the school calendar to help you find the longer weekends. Almost every month has a least one. Can you ask for temporary summer visitation? Good luck!
Good Morning,
So -- to try and raise money to help fight this fight as good as I can, and to make sure I look as good as possible in court next week, I need to raise a ton of cash. While I've got a whole house full of stuff, and we own our house free and clear, I couldn't sell anything or get a loan without her permission. I've decided to post my story and try to sell my services and a buch of source code I've written over the years.
I realize that not too many readers here may be interested in either of these, but I hope I can convince you to take a look at the site, and maybe leave some supportive comments to help convince others who may be tempted to help.
http://www.5sanfords.com
If you know any other way of spreading the word about this site, I'd be soooo grateful!
Thanks so much for everything!