Hello All!
>
> I am going through a divorce with someone that in my opinion fits the
> description of borderline personality. Please tell me if what I am
> experiencing sounds familar:
>
> 1. I am going on my 3rd restraining order, 2 of which have been
> voluntarily dismissed by my x wife and all have been fictitious
> stories made up by her for her to usurp the system to get what she
> wants. The worst part is the courts are so biased when it comes to
> domestic, you are automatically guilty. I now have a 1 year
> restraining order and having to attend anger management classes
> without ever doing ANYTHING !!!! This seems like a bad nightmare!
>
> 2. When we were speaking, everything I said would be twisted. When
> she told her version of the storie at a later point, its almost like
> she was not even in the conversation.
>
> 3. Extreme Mood swings !!!! One minute she says she can't live
> without you, the next she is pulling a knife and threatening to kill.
>
> 4. She is using my daughter as a tool to get what she wants.
>
> 5. She has accused me of molesting my 4 year old little girl, to the
> point where she has taken her to the doctor to have her examined.
> Another obvious fictitious storie.
>
> 6. She has had an affair and rubs it in my face.
>
> 7. She runs from responsibility.
>
> 8. When she was still living at home, relentless spending spree's.
>
> And the list goes on and on as I am sure some of you know.
>
> What scares me to death is the state of florida's fifteenth judicial
> court has granted these orders and custody of my poor little girl to
> my ex wife without ever doing a bit of investigation into her or my
> past. She has been in several mental institutions and has been
> baccaracted before and the state will not even here what I have to
> say. This is a disgrace to our judicial system and I want to help
> myself and anyone else that may have to experience what I am and make
> the REAL victims in these cases heard.
>
> How can we make a difference?
> Media? I don't know.....Will anyone please help with ideas of how to
> get to the media and bring this into the open here in Florida and
> make the judges actually do their job and investigate and listen to
> both sides, psych evals, anything...
>
> My childs future is in the hands of this whirlwind and it is not fair
> to her not to be able to see her father because her mother is SICK!
>
> Please help! I don't know what else to do.
>
> Dave =)
>
> Messages in this topic
While much of what you've described sounds like BPD, that's really irrelevant. First, without a diagnosis from a qualified professional, you can't do anything. Second, even with a diagnosis from a qualified professional, that is insufficient to take the child from her. Only if you can establish that she is harming the child can you do anything.
As you may know, there is a cluster of personality disorders which are all very similar (Borderline, Histrionic, Narcissistic). Most people with one also have characteristics of the others - and they get so blended together that even skilled professionals have trouble telling them apart. My ex was more on the Histrionic/Narcissistic side, but perhaps the books I read will help:
Stop Walking on Eggshells (Taking your life back when someone you care about has Borderline Personality Disorder) by Paul T Mason and Randi Kreger
Children of the Self-Absorbed (A grownup's guide to getting over narcissistic parents) by Nina W Brown
Narcissism (Denial of the True Self) by Alexander Lowen MD
You need to focus on the things that matter. She could be as nutty as a fruitcake but still be a good parent. Having spent time in mental institutions doesn't NECESSARILY make one an unfit parent (although it certainly suggests areas of problems).
What evidence do you have that her condition is harming your daughter? For example, you state that you are not allowed to see your daughter. Focus on things like that where you can prove that she is not fulfilling her responsibility.
Changing custody is going to require you to prove that she's unfit - which is a high hurdle to achieve. You might be better off to start by asking the court to enforce the custody / parenting plan that's in place. Do you have visitation rights? If so and you're not getting them, file for contempt and ask the court to enforce your rights. If you don't have visitation, ask the court for it.
You should also become more familiar with our court system. It's not the judge's job to investigate anything. We have an adversarial system. If you contested the custody order and the judge awarded custody to the mother without asking for a psych evaluation, there's a good chance you were let down by your attorney. I obviously don't know what happened, but if your attorney had objected to the custody order and asked for a custody evaluation, it will be granted in most cases. But the court will almost NEVER do that type of investigation or order a custody evaluation without one or both attorneys requesting it.
If your attorney requested a custody evaluation and the judge did not order it, then you MIGHT have grounds for appeal. However, appeals are time consuming, expensive, and can be even less predictable than regular court decisions. If you want to go that route, be prepared for a lot of time and money. Personally, even if you want to appeal, I'd focus on getting every minute of visitation that you're entitled to RIGHT NOW. After all, even if you win on appeal, if your daughter no longer recognizes you, you've lost a great deal.
The one good thing about BPD and related disorders is that they're very self-absorbed. At some point, they sometimes decide that the kid is taking away from their own personal time. My advice would be to work on repairing the relationship with your ex to the point that when she wants to go out with her friends that she lets you babysit. You may find that over time you get more time than your court ordered visitation.
For example, in my case, my ex fought tooth and nail (including some of the underhanded tricks you cited) for sole custody. Overall, she's a pretty good mother (lousy wife, but good mother), so the court awarded 50:50 custody. About 6 months after the divorce became final, she took a second job to supplement the alimony and support I'm paying. So today, I have my daughter 8 out of every 14 nights rather than 7. I'm also able to pick up additional nights here and there as she goes out with her friends. When she finds a new boyfriend, it will probably be even more.
In summary:
1. Assess whether she's really a bad parent (it may be hard to be neutral on this). If she's an OK parent, then it's going to be hard to change custody.
2. If she IS a bad parent and you can prove it, talk to an attorney about your options.
3. Immediately begin to enforce your visitation rights (and go to court to get visitation if you have none).
4. Be patient. You will find that the first year or two is undoubtedly the worst and then it eventually settles down (particularly with an NPD / BPD) IF YOU LET IT. If you continue to stir up trouble where you have no chance of winning, you'll be fighting for the rest of your life. But if you let the dust settle, things will EVENTUALLY (it does take time) get to some reasonable accomodations.
I hear you. I lived with a BPD for 15 years solely because I knew she would alienate me from my kids. After I got into the marriage, I later learned that this had been a pattern with the other 2 fathers. The natural father of my oldest gave up legal rights, and I adopted her because the real father got tired of the constant alienation. I have not seen my youngest child for over a year now. I pay way beyound what is legally required for child support. The 1st draft of the divorce simply read, I want everything, and half of your retirement. That is the way it seems to be going a year later. My children refuse to talk to me, or either tell me they hate me and never want to see me again. By the way, They told me many times each day, they loved me, when I lived in "her" house.
There was no sign or charges of any abuse, no dui's , no nothing.
My ex claims I am a drug addict. I stopped taking anything except for advil. I was on pain meds from one doctor. I was retired medially by 4 doctors for neck pain. I now refuse to take anything that she could use against me.
The tricky thing about BPD is that from the outside, the individual looks like a high functioning individual. And if they are very bright, like my ex, lies and truth can be weaved to look valid. Even if they are not, it is the father's responsibility to clear himself, without any recourse of the accuser.
Unless, you have plenty of money for a attorney, walls come up everywhere. They work for profit, not fairness.
The problem with severe alienation is no one believes it to be that bad. I remember hearing stories of such, and go, no, that could never happen to me, my relation with my children is too strong. Surely people will support me, because I have done way beyond what a normal dad would do. Surely, the legal system will not stand for this. Surely all of the teachers, church, activities will supports me. I could not believe how fast they all ran for cover.
>The 1st draft of the divorce
>simply read, I want everything, and half of your retirement.
You got off easy. My ex requested about 95% of our assets (including retirement) and well over 90% of my earnings for the next 20 years.
Obviously, she didn't get anywhere near that - so she's telling everyone how unfair I was (she got half of everything, half of future bonuses (!!), and for the first year and a half, she is getting more than half my income in alimony and child support, although after 4 years, it gets to a reasonable level. Yet she's convinced that I'm cheating her.
I forgot to mention- her income is 3x's mine. and she is still fighting for 95% of everything. But all of that is relative. Our relation was based on a downward spiral of debt. So, I guess 95% of 200,000.00 of debt is really a good deal for me.
>I forgot to mention- her income is 3x's mine. and she is
>still fighting for 95% of everything. But all of that is
>relative. Our relation was based on a downward spiral of
>debt. So, I guess 95% of 200,000.00 of debt is really a good
>deal for me.
Yes, if your net worth is negative, let her have everything.
HOWEVER, check with your lawyer, but I don't think it works as simply as that. At least in my state, if you borrowed money while you were married, the creditors can still come after you even if the divorce decree says that she's responsible (presumably because the divorce changes the terms of the debt and the creditor never has a chance to have any input - so they haven't agreed to the terms). At least, that's the way the car loan worked. The mortgage, OTOH, was able to be transferred into my name.
Make sure that the agreement specifically says which debts she has and that it has a clause saying that she will pay off all jointly held debts within some short period of time.
Has BPD been diagnosed by a medical professional? If not, you will have to ask the court to appoint a GAL and have your lawyer ensure that the GAL is a forensic psychologist. Otherwise, nobody in court will listed to a BPD argument. Outside of CA, most family courts simply refuse to attempt to recognize BPD ("after all, if it is'only borderline', it must not be the issue").
Dearest Dave
I understand your frustration Florida is a very difficult state to fight in like most states though when your the father!!!! What part of Florida are you in I'm not sure but I think it is PB?? If so how many times have you been before the judge? Speaking of Judge who is your Judge and who is your attorney? If you don't want to share this info I understand but I might have some valid suggestions for you and were in Florida at PB courts too!!! And we are trying to prove PAS so it's harder to do that then BPD!! I hope I can help you but if not atleast you know someone else is out there that is local!!!!
DevotedStepmom
What??? I had to laugh out loud when I read what you said.
You're right that no one will listen to the issue if BPD hasn't been diagnosed, but to say that most courts don't recognize BPD is off.
It's not called "Borderline Personality Disorder" because they have a personality disorder, but not a very bad one. It's called that because people who suffer from it never developed a "full" personality, so to speak. They lack some important functions.
You can't diagnose someone with a personality disorder unless they symptoms are severe enough to have an affect on their day to day lives.
Wow! It is like I just read my own auto-biography in this thread. My sympathies to all of you too. Since it is so related to my situation, may I ask those of you who contributed to analyze my situation?
I have the additional complication of needing to relocate for my work from the west coast of FL to the east coast (PB or Martin county). She has given me the ultimatum that she will move (for me) with our son into a home her mother just purchased on the east coast (St Lucie county) and give me "some" visitation. She is 90% of the things described above (and 10% other stuff). (Advice to focus on good mother versus good wife very helpful. thank you). She is good mother but either unable or unwilling to do ANY domestic/household upkeep and the symptoms of her BPD concern me regarding future anger against our child when he gets older and "challenges her." He is currently 1 year old.
Should I file in our current home town or allow the move (to seperate households) to occur and then file? My initial attorney counsultation said venue would be last marital household and could be changed but that I did not have much advantage from custody standpoint regardless of where I filed. (She has been stay at home mom for last year).
Advice please?
You might want to start a new thread for this.
It would be helpful to have more information. Are you asking if you should file for divorce before or after the move? If so, you might want to file before the move. Otherwise, she could change her mind a refuse to move, and then it will look like you abandoned your family.
You're in a much better position if you file first. You can always ask for a change of venue if you both move to a different county.
I might want to consider getting your visitation arrangements hashed out prior to moving. The more you have in writing the better, especially if you're dealing with someone who had BPD.
You might also consider getting this:
http://www.bpdcentral.com/cds/youremyworld.php
My husband and I found it very helpful.
Has your wife been diagnosed with BPD? If not, you should avoid any discussion of it, but request a psych eval. You can cite her behaviors in that. Let a professional do the diagnosis.
Thanks gemini3
Not diagnosed with BPD and I am not the one to make any diagnosis; thanks for reminding me.
Filing first in my opinion (99% sure) will resulte in retaliatory action (i.e. not moving and forcing me into a lesser capability to have visitation/earn and provide.
I understand the advantages of filing first but if I can guarantee the move occurs simulataneously into the seperate homes, and I can still file first in new venue is there any other advantage I am giving up by not filing in current venue?
TIA,
Confused Dad
The only other advantage that I can think of is the judges that preside over the cases. Some judges are more conservative than others.
The state stautes are the same, so a change of venue would be mostly of convenience than anything else. If you were to chnage states, then the state that the child resided for the last six months would be the home state.
What's to stop her from moving back once divorce proceedings start? I don't understand what her motivation is for wanting to move with you, except that she is attempting to avoid abandonment and control the situation. This would be especially true if she actually is BPD.
Are you planning on filing for custody? I ask because, if your ex truly is BPD, you're going to be in for a roller coaster ride until your child is 18 if she has custody. It's better to do things right from the start. If you change your mind five years down the road it's going to be very difficult for you to get it changed.
I'm not sure what is to stop her from moving back? If I file after the move, even though we would be in seperate households, can I get an injunction against moving back?
Reason for (her) moving is that she intends to split up upon moving. She feels that she has no control as a stay at home mother. Her mother (last week) purchased a home in the area in which we agreed to relocate, and is moving down from out of state to take care of her daughter and enable her (once again) to avoid all responsibility.
I intend to file for custody and would commit all I have to winning, but feel the deck is stacked against me since she was a stay at home mom the first year (14 months) even though it depleted almost all the money I brought into the relationship.
She does not intend to look for work after relocating for at least one month, (which probably means 4-6 months) and if I tell the court that I have ability to be available 1.5 - 2 days a week as stay at home dad (I would work 3-12hr days or 3-10's and a 4hr workweek) I am sure her mom will bankroll her to stay at home too, indefinitely.
I am not sure if it is best to pour all my resources in up front OR get strong visitation and an iron clad parent plan and document all violations of it and any Parental Alienation issues that occur... ?
TIA (again) for all your help. As I am sure most on this site have experienced, emotional rollercoasters are not fun. It is helpful to be able to discuss it with someone.
Dear Confusedad,
well i hope you like roller coasters because that is what your getting ready to embark on!!! As far as venue I would speak to an attorney in both areas(county) and see what they have to say. If you are indeed coming over to the east coast I could give you the number of our attorney I think the world of him but I don't allow him to run the show, I have done a lot of research and I have become very savy in this field and if I don't understand why he is doing what I ask until I understand because after all were footing the bill for all of it and we need to make sure our money is spent well..... My advice from my own opinion would be to move, set up a schedule in writing with her but have an attorney in place while your doing it!! So you can ask him questions along the way, and then put that schedule into action and start documenting and when your attorney who has been there all along feels you have GREAT not OK or possible grounds but GREAT grounds you go forward and yes once she has moved and put into action a achedule visitation plan and you have exercised you TIME as much if not more you then can get a court order not allow her to move while your going through your divorce in FL in order to relocate with the child she will need permision from you or the couts in writing allowing her to move!! It's a new statue in FL that was done on OCT 2006, and it is a beauty when it comes to having a GREAT case!! I hope this info was helpful and yes I would agreee that you probably would need to start a new conversation(thred), good luck and if you need something just ask everyone here seems very knowledgeable and extremely helpful!!!
DevotedStepmom
Thanks to all who have replied to me on this thread. I am sorry if I "hi-jacked" it, I was new to the site and was amazed at how many other people are in similar (and unfortunately even worse situations than I am.)
I do have a thread I started in this same category "Fathers Issues" entitled: "How to overcome StayAtHome Mom issue for child custody".
Please come visit me over there :-) and thank you again for all the input and support.
--DevotedStepMom: I will continue reply to your last post in thread mentioned above.