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Main Forums => Visitation Issues => Topic started by: footballdad on Oct 08, 2009, 05:46:24 AM

Title: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: footballdad on Oct 08, 2009, 05:46:24 AM
In my parenting plan, under "parenting time/vacation schedule" one of the paragraphs reads:

"At any time that the children have 3 days off from school, instead of Columbus Day, father shall have the children in his custody from the Friday of said 3 day weekend at 6pm until the Monday of said 3 day weekend at 6pm."

I'm seeking feedback on how a "reasonable person" would interpret this paragraph....and/or, for opinions on how a judge or attorney would interpret it.

The intent at the time this was created was that I get the kids whenever they have 3 day weekends, aside from Columbus Day.  Her birthday is October 10 and she didn't want that overlapping with my weekend.  Now the ex is playing dumb and trying to pretend that the paragraph means something else.

The "instead of" verbage was put in by my ex....that's why it makes no grammatical sense whatsoever.  (She didn't even finish high school, but acts as if she has a Master's degree...and is bipolar)   
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: Kitty C. on Oct 08, 2009, 08:39:08 AM
Then my question is.......exactly how is the ex interpreting it?  That would give us a better idea on the situation.
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: gemini3 on Oct 08, 2009, 08:53:51 AM
I agree with Kitty - how is the ex interpreting?
 
To me it sounds like you have a choice of trading Columbus Day weekend for one alternate 3-day weekend.  But it's kind of out of context since we can't see the rest of the order.
 
We have a similar 3-day weekend clause, but ours reads:  "Father shall have parenting time from XX:XX on Friday until XX:XX on Sunday on (specified weekends); and if Monday is a holiday, the parenting time shall continue until XX:XX on Monday."
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: Giggles on Oct 08, 2009, 09:01:26 AM
I was wondering the same thing.
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: CuriousMom on Oct 08, 2009, 10:07:20 AM
Mine reads very similar to gemini's regading holidays that fall immediately before or after a weekend visitiation.  NCP gets the over night into the holiday.
 
Wording is very awkward - I read it as you don't get Columbus day if it falls during your normal weekend.
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: footballdad on Oct 08, 2009, 11:52:45 AM
I agree with Kitty - how is the ex interpreting?

To me it sounds like you have a choice of trading Columbus Day weekend for one alternate 3-day weekend.  But it's kind of out of context since we can't see the rest of the order.

We have a similar 3-day weekend clause, but ours reads:  "Father shall have parenting time from XX:XX on Friday until XX:XX on Sunday on (specified weekends); and if Monday is a holiday, the parenting time shall continue until XX:XX on Monday."

She's trying to play games.  She interprets this as saying ONLY that I don't get them on Columbus Day. 

My interpretation is that anytime they have three days off from school, I get them, with the exception of Columbus Day.  There is a three day weekend coming up (not Columbus Day) and she is trying to claim that I don't get them.

She knows full well that I'm supposed to get them anytime they have such a holiday, this is what was discussed at our settlement.  She's playing games because she is upset at me.....earlier this year her husband beat up our daughter and I dared to seek a restraining order on the kids' behalf.
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: MomofTwo on Oct 08, 2009, 01:40:00 PM
If her interpretation is you get the children on the holiday if they are with you the preceeding weekend and your interpretation is you get them any 3 day weekend except Columbus day, then you need to file a motion for clarication of the order. 
 
Her interpretation would not be off as many orders are written exactly as Gemini said...if that is the NCP weekend and it falls on a 3 day weekend, the weekend includes the holiday up until XX time.
 
Since you don't agree, you have to file a motion for clarification of the order.  If you filed contempt and her stance is just what she is claiming, they will very likely not find her in contempt.
 
Usually you don't interpret one line out of an order, you need the entire order to be able to fully interpret it.  We don't know what else the orders say in regards to this....
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: Kitty C. on Oct 08, 2009, 02:31:13 PM
"At any time that the children have 3 days off from school".........I take that to read it includes ANY weekend the children have 3 days off from school, excluding Columbus Day weekend.
 
But I agree, if there is a disagreement on the interpretation, you need to get it clarified with the court.  One very important thing to keep in mind, tho........IF she has allowed you to exercise this in the past and is now attempting to deny you of it, then she is in contempt and you would need to file a petition for contempt of court, only after the fact .  BUT...if this is a fairly new order and you have not had the opportunity to have them for a 3 day weekend, then you need to have the court clarify it.
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: CuriousMom on Oct 08, 2009, 02:37:41 PM
Kitty - but if this is questionable and up for interpretation, can she really be fined for contempt?  If it isn't explicity stated in the order, how can you?   I know if it's been being followed, have it modified to follow what has been taking place but until then -
 
Just asking - was confused by that (http://www.deltabravo.net/forum/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: Kitty C. on Oct 08, 2009, 03:06:12 PM
It's only questionable if they've never utilized this aspect of the order before.  Like if the order is only a few months old and there hasn't been a 3 day weekend come up before now.

BUT, if he has had the children for a 3 day weekend in the past and she is only now refusing to release the children to him for his court-ordered time, then she is in contempt.  Apparently she wasn't confused about the interpretation in the past if she allowed it before, right?
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: gemini3 on Oct 08, 2009, 03:45:47 PM
Kitty makes a very good point - that it's only up for question if this is the first time.
 
You're so smart Kitty!!  (http://www.deltabravo.net/forum/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: CuriousMom on Oct 08, 2009, 06:23:41 PM
Got it (http://www.deltabravo.net/forum/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: Kitty C. on Oct 08, 2009, 06:25:59 PM
Awww shucks.......now yer makin' me blush!  (http://www.deltabravo.net/forum/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif)
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: MixedBag on Oct 12, 2009, 01:04:09 PM
I agree with Kitty -- any 3-day weekend is with Dad unless the weekend includes Columbus Day.  And if she wants you to take two-days and not Monday, I'd take it.
 
Good luck!
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: MrCustodyCoach on Oct 20, 2009, 12:56:09 PM
The easiest way to interpret the basis of that order is to take out the qualifier.

So, without the qualifier, the basic order is:

"At any time that the children have 3 days off from school, father shall have the children in his custody from the Friday of said 3 day weekend at 6pm until the Monday of said 3 day weekend at 6pm."

Now, while the qualifier is poorly worded, the intent is abundantly clear.  You're to keep the children until Monday of a three-day weekend.  The qualifier makes an exception for Columbus Day for the reasons you noted in your original post.

My only issue with the language is, what if the 3 day weekend starts on Friday?  You don't get them from Thursday?  That would be a shame.  What if it's a 4-or-more day weekend?

My recommendation is that if she intends to willfully violate the custody order and engage in custodial interference, you let her and then subsequently file a petition for contempt-of-court and for a modification of the custody order to account for every available moment where you can have more custodial time, such as I suggested.
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: footballdad on Oct 26, 2009, 08:06:23 PM
It's only questionable if they've never utilized this aspect of the order before.  Like if the order is only a few months old and there hasn't been a 3 day weekend come up before now.

BUT, if he has had the children for a 3 day weekend in the past and she is only now refusing to release the children to him for his court-ordered time, then she is in contempt.  Apparently she wasn't confused about the interpretation in the past if she allowed it before, right?

The parenting plan is a couple years old, but this point hasn't come up directly in the past. 

The order states that we first are supposed to try to mutually agree on dates...but if unable to agree, we default to these specific dates.

Over the past several months, she's become extremely uncooperative.  The reason for this:  her new husband assaulted my daughter earlier this year (and was convicted of it), and I filed for a restraining order out of concern for my children.  Since then, she's made every effort to be difficult and to limit my contact with the kids as much as possible. 

This is the underlying reason why she's now trying to claim the order means something other than what we both intended it to mean.  It looks as if we might have to go back to court, as she has NO respect for my parental rights or for the children to have access to both parents.  If I have to go this route, I'll seriously be thinking about modification of custody.
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: ocean on Oct 26, 2009, 08:13:54 PM
If the weekend is already yours then it will be easy. Keep them to Monday. Let her call the police. You have an order that states you have child/ren. Dont fight her until the kids get to you. Once you have them send her a text or email stating your parenting time is extended as per the court order. You will drop off on Monday at XX time.
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: footballdad on Oct 27, 2009, 09:31:44 AM
If the weekend is already yours then it will be easy. Keep them to Monday. Let her call the police. You have an order that states you have child/ren. Dont fight her until the kids get to you. Once you have them send her a text or email stating your parenting time is extended as per the court order. You will drop off on Monday at XX time.

The problem is, they are in another state, and I will have to take a day off work and travel the entire day to get them.  She'll likely hide them (she has done this in the past.)  If she does this, I can then file for contempt.  If I don't make the trip, she'll then just lie and say she made them available to me but I didn't pick them up.
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: MrCustodyCoach on Oct 27, 2009, 12:31:51 PM
You have to go make an attempt.  If she refuses to give them over, be sure you stop at a store and buy something (keeping the receipt) as evidence that you were in the area in an attempt to exercise your parenting time.
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: footballdad on Oct 29, 2009, 02:26:41 PM
You have to go make an attempt.  If she refuses to give them over, be sure you stop at a store and buy something (keeping the receipt) as evidence that you were in the area in an attempt to exercise your parenting time.

Thanks. 

Question:  if someone other than her (a friend or a family member) is hiding the kids on her behalf, are they committing any sort of crime?  Given the fact that I have paperwork entitling me to "temporary custody" of them during the time frame in question?
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: MixedBag on Oct 29, 2009, 06:26:03 PM
crime?  I'd say yes.
 
BUT the right way to go about this is in family court and still hold MOM responsible.
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: gemini3 on Oct 29, 2009, 07:19:25 PM
There is not a change in the custody status parallel to the visitation exchanges.  Custody remains the same regardless of whose "turn" it is to parent.
 
Also, the word "crime" means violation of a criminal statute.  Custody, visitation, and all issues surrounding, are civil matters.
 
So, in short, no - they are not commiting a crime.
 
You need to go file for contempt if she isn't turning over the child.  It's your only legal remedy.
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: MomofTwo on Oct 29, 2009, 08:04:49 PM
Since your original post was in regards to Columbus Day, which passed, what did you do...did you go for them ? What happened?
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: Davy on Oct 29, 2009, 09:55:09 PM
Perhaps I'm missing something.

While Custody matters (including Contempt) are civil in nature there does exist relevant Criminal statues in many states referred to as "Custodial Interference" and often include third parties.  Also, these charges are jailable offenses.

By the way, non-payment of CS use to be considered civil but has now been criminalized.  
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: gemini3 on Oct 30, 2009, 04:59:53 AM
I stand corrected.  Thanks Davy.
 
Criminal statutes by state for criminal custodial interference...
 
http://deltabravo.net/files/CrimCustodInterfStatutes.pdf (http://deltabravo.net/files/CrimCustodInterfStatutes.pdf)
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: MixedBag on Oct 30, 2009, 06:27:58 AM
That's why I said "YES" to a crime.
 
But -- then when you go read and actual statutes there are "outs" in some of them and the custodial interference usually refers to a third party keeping someone from either one of their parents.
 
While a divorce says one parent becomes the primary residential parent or custodial parent, that "custodial" status doesn't necessarily mean the state also covers it under their custodial interference laws/codes.
 
50 states, several different interpretations.
 
Frustrating.
 
I'm also on the side that in this case, it was for a "short period" of time directly related to family court matters even if one parents' extended family was doing the hiding.
 
Sucks -- truly sucks -- EX#3 once flew from the east coast to Nevada, drove 3 hours to Timbuktu, only to have his kids hidden in that town by their mother and her parents.  She kept them in a hotel room where she worked.  Finally, after hanging out for a day (Thanksgiving weekend this was), she told dad they were swimming in the hotel pool (indoors), and he watched them play and couldn't get IN the pool area because he didn't have a hotel key.  The kids didn't come out to see him either (major PAS going on).  And I think on the third day he finally did get to see them for just a bit before he flew back.  And yes, she was found in contempt for that trip......but it sure took a while in the court system.  She lived with her parents and they kept an unlisted number -- she said "Geez, I can't help it, that's dad's decision."  She intercepted all mail or returned it.  Yet "custodial interference" in a criminal sense was never even brought up by his attorney.
 
 
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: footballdad on Oct 30, 2009, 11:22:10 PM
Just returned.... 6 hour drive each way, and the children were not at the ordered place at the ordered time.  Sent police to her house with "negative contact."  Very frustrating, to say the least....

I guess the good part is, she pretty much buried herself legally.  Especially given the fact that she's been brought in front of the judge for this type of thing before.   Next step is to file a request for "family access order". 

I will also follow up to find out where the kids were being hidden....hmmmm, maybe file a civil small claims suit against them in my home state for my travel expenses incurred?

Very tired and frustrated, going to bed.
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: MixedBag on Oct 31, 2009, 06:38:40 AM
ask the judge to have mom reimburse your for your expenses.  EX#3's judge awarded that to him once and ordered make-up time.
 
I got make-up time once -- but I didn't ask for expenses that time because there were none.  In my case, EX#2 was adamant in letters that "it was not a weekend available for me to choose" -- so I stayed home, and filed for make-up time and a clarification of some other stuff.  Clarification went my way AND I got a make-up weekend.  (and on the other items, the court remained silent).
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: ocean on Oct 31, 2009, 08:01:36 AM
You are in for the long hall. We went through this and was in court for over a year with NOTHING said to BM for keeping kids away. It depends on the judge.... and it will take a few times in court to get anything resolved. Just dont get your hopes up for the first court date, at least around here....
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: footballdad on Oct 31, 2009, 04:48:39 PM
You are in for the long hall. We went through this and was in court for over a year with NOTHING said to BM for keeping kids away. It depends on the judge.... and it will take a few times in court to get anything resolved. Just dont get your hopes up for the first court date, at least around here....

She's already been in front of this judge once before, for pretty much the same thing.  This is like the fourth or fifth time I've driven down there, only to have her conceal some or all of the kids from me.  Last time I went pro se....ex went into court and tried to play the "poor innocent victim" card and the judge saw right through it.  Her attorney ended up asking me to settle.  I gained a lot of concessions....prior to that hearing, I had to make this trip TWICE, picking them up on Friday and then dropping them back off on Sunday....1500 miles of driving. 

However, this time I'm retaining an attorney and am NOT going to let anybody talk me into settling out of court....all she'll do is agree to whatever, then violate the court orders again just as she has done repeatedly.  Yesterday was the final straw....I am tired of having my rights to my children trod on.
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: ocean on Oct 31, 2009, 05:55:58 PM
They dont like to do it BUT make them put consequences if she does it again written down. Ask for all expenses including the lawyer since she is the one in contempt. Have to file it that way...
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: MrCustodyCoach on Oct 31, 2009, 07:04:01 PM
Oh, it most certainly is a crime.  It's just a matter of which one and how it's applied.  It's one thing for police to get hung up on custodial interference matters between parents, but if a third party is involved, they're committing a crime.

Mom could be charged with felony child abduction and anyone helping her for "aiding and abetting" depending upon the circumstances.
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: MomofTwo on Nov 01, 2009, 08:32:33 AM
Your original post was pertinent to Columbus Day only...what does your orders specifically say about your parenting time?  If your orders do not specify the weekends you are to have your children (for example 1st 3rd...etc)...I have seen cases where it was written as just EOW that contempt was not found due to the orders not being specific and both parents claiming the same weekend was theirs due to that. EOW can be ambiguous.  Do your orders specify the weekends?  If not, you may want to file a motion to clarify your weekends. 
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: footballdad on Nov 01, 2009, 10:00:04 AM
Your original post was pertinent to Columbus Day only...what does your orders specifically say about your parenting time?  If your orders do not specify the weekends you are to have your children (for example 1st 3rd...etc)...I have seen cases where it was written as just EOW that contempt was not found due to the orders not being specific and both parents claiming the same weekend was theirs due to that. EOW can be ambiguous.  Do your orders specify the weekends?  If not, you may want to file a motion to clarify your weekends. 

The order says that I get them any time they have three days off from school.  The exception is if it's Columbus Day, because that typically falls on her birthday.  It's the exception part which is poorly worded....ex wife isn't even a high school graduate but insisted that it read "instead of Columbus Day" which makes no sense whatsoever.

The Columbus Day weekend itself was never an issue.

The order is specific.  I insisted on this for this very reason....this is like the fifth time that I've had to involve the local law enforcement in helping enforce my rights.
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: footballdad on Nov 01, 2009, 12:00:18 PM
Oh, it most certainly is a crime.  It's just a matter of which one and how it's applied.  It's one thing for police to get hung up on custodial interference matters between parents, but if a third party is involved, they're committing a crime.

Mom could be charged with felony child abduction and anyone helping her for "aiding and abetting" depending upon the circumstances.

I'm wondering if I can also pursue civil action against the parties who are aiding her.  Because of them, I incurred expenses in my home state and county (I had to purchase gas to drive down to pick the kids up.)  If nothing else, they'll end up with a judgment on their credit report for 7 to 10 years.

Then again, when we're talking about her friends and acquaintances, we're talking about "Real stories of the highway patrol" meets "Jerry Springer," so a bad mark on their credit isn't likely to make much difference :(
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: Davy on Nov 01, 2009, 12:07:14 PM
Football - You're right that this is not about Kris Columbus ... it is merely a side show that has been cussed, discussed and properly vetted in previous posts.

It is relevant that you brought charges against the mother's household for the suffering your child endured which resulted in a conviction and just as important that the children are being denied access to their father.

Speaking from the experience of my children (now adults) that were forced to endure a like situation ... you may want to view every day as "game day" where the children continue to suffer and are at risk.

The abuse is not only physical.  I believe this is at the foundation of why the Criminal Custodial Interference statues exist but for whatever reason they do exist and are pertinant.  Copy the statues (hope they are relevant) and carry with you for law enforcement and presentation to prosecuting state attorney.  WHATEVER IT TAKES to PROTECT THE CHILDREN ( a natural right of every parent ).  And WHATEVER dude... stay cool, respectful, but direct and to the point.  Do not accept anymore excuses.  And, I agree with most everything MrC is posting, the statues do apply to 3rd partys in many states.  An Oregon father recently was able to use these statues successfully.

BTW, just wondering.   Did mom try to do anything to stop the abuse  ???
 
... and ALL civil and criminal statues are on the side of the children and you so there is no need for SpecialK, Jackdaddy or Robdog.
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: footballdad on Nov 01, 2009, 01:34:21 PM
Football - You're right that this is not about Kris Columbus ... it is merely a side show that has been cussed, discussed and properly vetted in previous posts.

It is relevant that you brought charges against the mother's household for the suffering your child endured which resulted in a conviction and just as important that the children are being denied access to their father.

Speaking from the experience of my children (now adults) that were forced to endure a like situation ... you may want to view every day as "game day" where the children continue to suffer and are at risk.

The abuse is not only physical.  I believe this is at the foundation of why the Criminal Custodial Interference statues exist but for whatever reason they do exist and are pertinant.  Copy the statues (hope they are relevant) and carry with you for law enforcement and presentation to prosecuting state attorney.  WHATEVER IT TAKES to PROTECT THE CHILDREN ( a natural right of every parent ).  And WHATEVER dude... stay cool, respectful, but direct and to the point.  Do not accept anymore excuses.  And, I agree with most everything MrC is posting, the statues do apply to 3rd partys in many states.  An Oregon father recently was able to use these statues successfully.

BTW, just wondering.   Did mom try to do anything to stop the abuse  ???

Nope....she blamed and grounded the daughter for it.

Trying to find out if the stepfather was involved in any way with hiding the kids from me.  He's on probation, and I'll be having a nice long talk with his probation officer.....
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: Davy on Nov 01, 2009, 02:50:22 PM
Yep !  Exactly what I thought !!

They NEVER do anything wrong and it is ALWAYS someone else fault.  Practically destroyed my daughter.

It's been many years and I still can not come to grips with how a parent can allow this to happen let alone blame the child.
 
After many years have passed you may come to confirm / learn / understand that Bozzo is a victim of Bimbo's illness much like you and your children.  Bozzo is easy.  Try desperately to get "the system"  to restrict and punish Bimbo .... the kids (and any grand kids) may benefit in the long run. 
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: footballdad on Nov 30, 2009, 11:55:24 AM
Update:  as I may have mentioned already, my ex hid the kids from me when I showed up for my court-ordered parenting time.  I'm preparing a motion for her to be found in contempt for this.

As was discussed at the outset of this discussion thread, she was contending that the order means something which it clearly does not.  Either she's deliberately being ignorant, or her understanding of grammar is so limited that she can't comprehend a sentence.

She was a high school dropout who later went back for an equivalency.  Would this be a good idea to bring up in court, or would a judge likely see this as "bashing" my ex?  If there's one thing the ex is good at, it's playing victim, alleging "abuse" and "harassment" (she once filed for a restraining order because I "lied to get [her] to sign for a legal notification" and because I brought a police officer to an exchange of our children.)
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: asof2005 on Nov 30, 2009, 04:37:17 PM
I dont know if bringing up her education is a good idea.  My DH is a high school drop out and never got his equivalent and the BM is a drop out too but got her GED.  DH is far more intelligent and better equipped to raise the kids than the BM.  IMO, it would look like bashing because education doesn't make or break your skills as a parent.  I have known some pretty inept people with college degrees too.
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: ocean on Nov 30, 2009, 05:50:27 PM
No, but you can give facts of her stupidity instead.... "Mother states is was not my time because xyz, but it clearly states on pg.4 of my decree dated xxx that I have parenting time on xxx"
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: gemini3 on Nov 30, 2009, 07:38:02 PM
I wouldn't do either.  Why give her excuses?  Just state the facts: 
 
CO states on Page ____ Paragraph ______ that I have parenting time on such-and-such day.  I arrived on xx/xx/09 at 00:00 to pick them up, mother concealed the children and refused to turn them over for my parenting time.
 
Let her explain to the judge why she didn't.
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: footballdad on Nov 30, 2009, 11:01:42 PM
Another issue which will come up, is that I knew in advance that she planned to disobey the order, yet I took the day off work and made the all-day trip anyway.  However, if I didn't do so, she could and would have simply claimed that she had the kids waiting for me, but I never showed.  I'm sure that I can also establish that there was no situation such as the children being sick, or her fearing for their safety.  I'm not sure what's the best way to respond to this scenario when it comes up.
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: Kitty C. on Nov 30, 2009, 11:57:07 PM
'Another issue which will come up, is that I knew in advance that she planned to disobey the order, yet I took the day off work and made the all-day trip anyway.'  Huh?  Is she stupid enough to tell a judge that??  To not only outright say she had every intention of being in contempt of the order, but to also believe that you could read her mind to know that was what she intended to do, as well??
 
If the answer is yes to both those questions, then by all means, take it to court and let her dig her own grave....you won't have to lift a finger and it's quite possible she could hand you exactly what you want!  The only thing I'm curious about is how the judge will handle her blatant stupidity and try to figure out if it's legit or just an act!  (http://www.deltabravo.net/forum/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: gemini3 on Dec 01, 2009, 06:06:25 AM
Are you asking because you had to drive the 750 mile (I think that's what you said in a previous post) round trip knowing that she wasn't going to let you have the kids?
 
Ask for make-up time, and request that she be responsible for transportation of the children for the make-up time.
 
As far as establishing that the kids were sick, or she feared for her safety - that's going to be pretty hard to do.  I think the judge will see through any excuses she may bring up, especially considering that you have had ongoing problems with interference.
 
I agree with previous posters that you should ask for specific consequences to be added to the CO for interference.  Like having to pay your attorney's fees, provide make-up time, and provide all transportation for make-up time.
 
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: footballdad on Dec 01, 2009, 02:34:28 PM
'Another issue which will come up, is that I knew in advance that she planned to disobey the order, yet I took the day off work and made the all-day trip anyway.'  Huh?  Is she stupid enough to tell a judge that??  To not only outright say she had every intention of being in contempt of the order, but to also believe that you could read her mind to know that was what she intended to do, as well??

If the answer is yes to both those questions, then by all means, take it to court and let her dig her own grave....you won't have to lift a finger and it's quite possible she could hand you exactly what you want!  The only thing I'm curious about is how the judge will handle her blatant stupidity and try to figure out if it's legit or just an act!  (http://www.deltabravo.net/forum/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

Yes, she really is that stupid.....but then again, she may show up with an attorney.
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: MixedBag on Dec 01, 2009, 03:24:43 PM
Yes -- file for contempt, ask for the expense you incurred when time was denied etc...
 
keep after mom.
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: footballdad on Dec 12, 2009, 02:48:56 PM
Looks like the ex wants to go back to court on this.  I offered to settle this, requesting that she give me makeup time with the children and reimbursement for my expenses incurred due to her violation of the order.  She told me to stop "harrassing" her (whenever things don't go her way, she goes into "victim" mode...) so the next time I'm down there to pick up my kids, I'll be filing a couple of motions. 
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: ocean on Dec 12, 2009, 03:01:45 PM
Call the court near her and see if they have the forms online or if they can mail you blank ones. YOu may be able to file by mail or drop off completed paperwork.
If she denied access...you file contempt of court. Bring a stamped copy of all orders you have....make copies to attach to contempt. Sometimes they want to see originals...
Each time, file. Make sure you get police report or buy coffee with receipt at exchange spot to prove you were there.
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: footballdad on Dec 13, 2009, 10:31:49 AM
Call the court near her and see if they have the forms online or if they can mail you blank ones. YOu may be able to file by mail or drop off completed paperwork.
If she denied access...you file contempt of court. Bring a stamped copy of all orders you have....make copies to attach to contempt. Sometimes they want to see originals...
Each time, file. Make sure you get police report or buy coffee with receipt at exchange spot to prove you were there.

Yup, when she failed to show up, I went to the police station (it's 50 feet away from the town square where we do the exchanges, due to past harassment and threats by her Springeresque family and friends.)  The officer who helped us was the same one who arrested her piece of sh-- husband when he beat up my daughter, so he already knows the situation.
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: MixedBag on Dec 13, 2009, 04:39:54 PM
Yes, you can file by mail -- don't wait too long, because waiting sends a message too.
 
Ah the victim mode....all too familiar with that train too.
Title: Re: Need opinions on interpretation
Post by: footballdad on Dec 13, 2009, 09:35:11 PM
Yes, you can file by mail -- don't wait too long, because waiting sends a message too.

Ah the victim mode....all too familiar with that train too.

She uses that old trick which some of the more extreme feminist groups used to preach....when beaten, just make claims of "abuse" and "harassment" so that the real facts will be overshadowed.  She once tried to get a protective order, because I brought the police to one of our parenting time exchanges.  Her explanation was that she should be granted a protective order because I "must have lied to the police to get them to come."