SPARC Forums

I have a son named Cameron he is 10. My ex wife is constantly cancelling my visitation. All I hear over and over again is Camerons sick and if he can't go to school he can't come visit with me. I feel that if she can take care of Cameron then so can I. I don't know what to do anymore. (http://www.deltabravo.net/forum/Smileys/default/embarrassed.gif) Another issue that I have is she tells cameron everything about our court dates and makes me out to be the bad guy. She has told my son lies about me and is constantly bad mouthing me. If anyone can give me some feed back I appreciate it. Thanks
Michael

Do you have court ordered visitation?  Is it for specific dates and times?

Your son being sick should not affect your ability to exercise your visitation.  You absolutely have the right to parent him during an illness.

Answer the above questions and we might be able to give you better advice on how to proceed.  There are things you can do.

As far as the bad mouthing - a couple of good books to read are Divorce Poison and Divorce Casualties.  You can't control what your ex does, but you can do some things to prevent it from destroying your relationship with your son.

My court order visitation is friday 4:30 to 7:30pm and sunday from 10am to 5 one week and alternating weekends pick him up on Friday at 7pm and keep him til sunday at 5 pm if no school the next day I keep him until 8. I haven't seen my son in 3 weeks because he is sick so she says. When I try to make up my time its like pulling teeth. She is always trying to bargain the time down. I just can't afford getting an attorney everytime. Its just so costly.

There is a form letter on this site that you can use to document denial of visitation.

http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/missed-visit.php (http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/missed-visit.php)

There is also one that you can send letting her know that you plan to exercise your court ordered visitation.

http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/intent.php (http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/intent.php)

There is also a good article on the whole "sick child" issue.

http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/sickvisit.php (http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/sickvisit.php)

I would push her on the issue.  Let her know that you're capable of caring for your son when he is sick, and that you will be there to pick him up at the ordered time.  Show up and get your kid.  Don't just let her tell you no.

Have you been to court on contempt charges in the past?  What was the outcome?  You might be able to do a show cause without the attorney.

I have on many occasions pushed the issue that I can care for my son and she still refuses. In fact she and my son live with her parents and she will have her dad tell me because she can't talk to me for some reason. I have been to court for contempt once and the judge was so close to doing a change of custody. I have a question about one of the court orders maybe you can help me. It says:
Michael (which is me) shall have access to all medical records information, all treating doctors, physicians. Michael shall be allowed to be present for medical treatment unless physically unsafe for the child. All missed visitaion shall be made up.

Isn't my son being sick fall under shall be allowed to be present for all medical treatment? I'm going to start documenting it. Thanks
Michael

You are entitled to be present at his doctor visits, but you should have something in your CO for your protection that she has to notify you of visits within X amount of time, so you are able to make arrangements to attend.   

Michael ... I'm impressed.  You have a better CO than most and you indicated the court comtemplated a custody change.  First time I've seen a CO referencing a "first name" in the body of the order (You must be many miles from Chicago).

I would suggest using one of the forms Gemini referenced as a pattern to "politely tell" (don't ask) the exact date/time missed visitation will be made up and focusing on the child's activities.  Hope you can continue to maintain a good relationship with the other parent.  At the same time, you might consider (absent mafia ties) notifying her parents in writing NOT to interfere with your child.   

So her dad calls you and says not to come, or he meets you at the door and says that you get the child?

As far as your CO - being present for medical treatment doesn't cover visitation, but unless the visitation section has a clause that you don't get your parenting time if the child is sick she cannot deny you the time.  And you have a make-up clause, which is excellent.

Use the visitation denied letter to request your missed visitation, and the one for itent for upcoming visits.  Send them certified mail, and show up to get your son.

If she doesn't file a motion to show cause on both. 

Sorry my computer broke and I haven't been on in a long time. There is nothing in the visitation agreement that says that I dont get parenting time when he is sick. I'm just so irritated. Today is thanksgiving and i'm suppose to pick up my son tomorrow and my ex called and left a message with my fiance. My son is sick and has a fever of 99.0 and she will call me tomorrrow but doesn't think that we can do visitation. Its any little thing. Then if I tell her no I'm still going to pick him up she has her dad call me. Her parents are always calling saying if I want to pick up my son "I'm putting him in danger".

Ignore them.  They keep doing it because it keeps working.  He is your son.  He needs his dad.  Don't take this lying down.

Go to pick up your son at the appointed time.  If no one answers the door, or if they refuse to let you take him, go to the nearest gas station and make a small purchase to document that you were there.  Then on Monday go to the courthouse and file a motion to show cause.  You can do it pro se.

You should also keep a log of all the times you have been denied visitation since the last court date.  Back it up with e-mails and/or phone messages if you have them.

Usually they'll stop once they realize it's not working anymore.  If not, you'll have to take more drastic measures, but this should be your first step.

Well Gemini
I got a phone call from my ex today at 1:30pm and she told me that my son was sick. I tried to talk to her I was very civil. I told her thanks for letting me know but I can handle him being sick and that I don't mind giving him his meds and that I would be there to pick him up at my scheduled time. She started saying that "I need to think about Camerons best interest and not think about myself." I tod her that she keeps him home every time he sick and I have just equal rights as she does to care for him while he was sick. She got upset and handed the phone to her dad. I tried to tell her dad about my rights to care for Cam and he said to me " to hell with your rights" and told me to take her to court. I shouldn't have even bothered talking to them.  Thats what I was doing talking while they were yelling and screaming. I showed up anyway they didn't answer the door and then I went to the Bolingbrook police station, they logged it in their system, and gave me a peice of paper with the complaint number. Tomorrow I will be sending out the denial of visitation letter via certified mail. Am I going to look like a total jerk going to court over this? I was reading the article on visitation being denied due to illness was that written by an attorney or is it a law that both parents can treat a child when their sick? She keeps saying that if I take her to court that she will say that I'm endangering his health more? Do you think that I may be able to win this alone without an attorney? Is there anything I can do about her dad always interfering legally? Thankyou for your advice and help.
Michael
P.S. Gemini3 just wondering are you an attorney because you give a lot of good advice.

I am not an attorney, so please keep in mind that the advice I give on this board is not legal advice.  It is advice based on my own personal experiences, and that of others I know.  I'm glad that you find it helpful. 

No, you're not going to look like a total jerk.  You are the child's parent, and part of "parenting" is caring for the child while they are sick.  This is a tactic that is used often by CP's to deny visitation.  This website has an article on the subject here:  http://deltabravo.net/custody/sickvisit.php (http://deltabravo.net/custody/sickvisit.php)

Does your son have some kind of severe medical condition?  It sounds like she says he's sick a lot.

If and when you do go to court over this, you should have a log of the dates and times you were denied visitation because the child was sick.  Your CO clearly states that missed visitation should be made up - so she is in violation of the CO.  She has to allow you to make up the visitation.  How many visits have you missed, and over how long of a period?  Has she ever given you make-up time?

Have you checked with the school to see if he really missed school those days?  If not, call and get a copy of his attendance record.  You may find that he's actually in school.

As far as whether or not you can win this without an attorney - there is no way to know.  It's a crapshoot even with an attorney.  But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't try.  Sometimes just knowing that you will take it to court is enough of a deterrant.  AND, even if you don't win the first time, there is a court record of the issue so that the judge will see it if there's a next time.

As far as her dad goes, there's nothing you can do about his meddling.  Legally anyway.  I would just hang up if she puts him on the phone.

My son has had a lot of medical conditions throughout the years. He's had a lot of surgerys. The lastest ones have been minor out patient ones for his tubes in his ears. The last one he had was a spinal fusion in 2006. I missed 5 months of visitation but of course something like that I have to understand because he couldn't be moved. When he gets sick it has nothing to do with his medical conditions. I have missed a lot of visitation. Most recent. I missed 2 days in Sept, I missed 3 weekends in a row in October, and now I'm missing this weekend.

Back in May I was notified by dcfs that I was being investigated and that I couldn't see my son. It was on his birthday that I was told this. Anyway the false allegations were thrown out (unfounded). My ex wife proceeded to get an order of protection on me AFTER she was told by dcfs that I could see my son. It was dismissed in August. At that point my attorney told me that I should file for a change of custody. Unfortuately I just had no more money. My attorney was almost in tears talking to me. She told me that she could just tell that my son was being coached. I missed 3 months with my son because she wants to falsely accuse me of child abuse for the third time. Sometimes I just want to give up. It hurts me you know. I just want this nightmare to be over. I have even considered giving up my parental rights and saying you know what I can wait til he's 18 if he wants to come find me. Don't know what do anymore

I think that many of us on these boards can relate to the feelings your having.  Fighting alienation is draining - emotionally, mentally, and financially.  It's a personal decision - as far as whether or not you should go on fighting.  You should be commended for hanging on as long as you have, and facing what you have.  Dealing with false allegations is especially difficult.  I don't think anyone who has been through this kind of thing would judge you if you decided to stop fighting. 

There are things you can do on your own without an attorney.  You don't need one to file a Petition for Rule to Show Cause, or to appear for the hearing.  You can be there with all of the information the judge will need.  If your attorney is open to the idea, she might be able to give you some coaching on what to do and say when you get into court.  It will be a lot less expensive to pay her for an hour or two, file your own paperwork and represent yourself, than to pay her for everything.

There are a couple of good books out there dealing with PA and what you can do to combat it.  My recommendations are Divorce Poison and Divorce Casualties.  They have a lot of good information on what you can do to help combat the alienation.

You might also consider joining a group for fathers.  The American Coalition for Fathers and Children has two chapters in Illinois.  You can get information on them here:  http://acfc.convio.net/site/PageServer?pagename=affiliates#Illinois (http://acfc.convio.net/site/PageServer?pagename=affiliates#Illinois)  It can be hard to get support for what you're going through because most people have no idea, and don't understand the challenges of working within the family court system.  It can be embarassing to tell people about the false allegations because you wonder what people will think.  All of the things you're going through are extremely hard - and I think it helps to talk to people who have been there, know what it's like, and won't judge you.

Camsdad, I have to tell you....I am not one to cry 'The sky is falling!' like Chicken Little, but you said something in your last post that jumped off the radar at me:  'My son has had a lot of medical conditions throughout the years. He's had a lot of surgerys.'

I don't mean to pry, but if you could elaborate on that, it might put this in a different perspective.  Because the very first thought that crossed my mind was Munchausen's by proxy.  It is a syndrome/condition where a parent claims a child is sick to feed some warped sense of need in that parent.  Some go to the extent of claiming some outrageous diseases, hospitalizations and surgeries, just to make them look like Parent of the Year.  It could also be used to prevent the other parent from seeing the child.  I recommend you research this and get as much information as possible.  I am NOT saying that this is the case, but because it is something that alerted me and you do need to consider every possibility.  Especially since the atty. stated she was certain the child had been coached.

Ever see the movie 'Sixth Sense' with Bruce Willis?  There was a dead girl who's mother poisoned her to the point that she died from it.  But apparently she had realized what her mother was up to and set up a camcorder and caught her mother poisoning her food.  Of course, this is an extreme example made specifically for the movie.

I would strongly recommend having the child evaluated by a pediatrician who has never seen him before.  If you can't do this yourself, I would demand that this be court-ordered if it ends up in court. 

If your ex has a long history of refusing your time with your child based on sickness alone, I think you should seriously consider this.  Like I said, I am not one to panic and think worst case scenario, but I DO believe in covering ALL the bases...especially when it's difficult to figure out just where all the bases are.

The only reason I put this out here is because of the beauty of this site...........many people here with different perspectives and experiences.  As my dad used to say, 'Two (or more) heads are better than one' and sometimes one might find a way to look at a problem differently than you would have thought of.

My son has had heart surgery when he was a baby he had something very similar to a heart mur mur called an asd. He hasn't had any problems with that since. He's had tibia reconstruction, bilateral myringotomy placement (tubes in his ears) 8 times,  bladder issues, reconstruction of the skull, tethered cord release, posterterior fushion and anterior release (spine surgery), decompression of the brain, my ex is also is planning on doing cosmetic surgery because his ears stick out a little and she doesn't like it. If you looked at my son you wouldn't know that anything was wrong with him.
It was brought up a long time ago of her having munhausens by proxy by my attorney but it was never pursued.

Tubes in his ears EIGHT TIMES??  Does he have any hearing left??  There has to be so much scar tissue that if he doesn't have hearing problems now, he will eventually.  And what ENT (otolaryngologist) would willingly do that type of surgery so many time?  Was it the same surgeon each time?  Or was there more than one for the same problem?  If it was the latter, then Munchausen's by Proxy is a definite possibility.  Cosmetic surgery because she doesn't like the way his ears look?  This is downright absurd!

Tibia and skull reconstruction, spine surgery, decompression of the brain...........is that from an accident?  If not, is there some genetic deformity that was discovered?  And if your atty. brought up Munchausen's in the past, why wasn't it pursued?  In fact, another big sign is how many practitioners/surgeons/hospitals have been involved in your son's care since birth and how many of those treated your child for similar conditions?  In other words, the ex making sure the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.....

I'm sorry........too many questions!  I take it that you do not have joint legal custody, so that she has sole discretion on giving permission for any surgery or treatment.  And I bet she fought for that long and hard.  The Munchausen's flag is whipping in the wind if the answers to all these questions are what I think they are.  If my hunch is correct, you should tell your atty. you are ready to investigate the Munchausen's possibility to the fullest.........or it's posssible your ex will either maim or kill your child in the name of 'modern healthcare'.........

The biggest job will be getting copies of all your child's medical records....and you need ALL of them.  If you live in a large metro area, it will be that much more difficult, as there will be so many for her to choose from.  Key areas to watch for are doctor and nursing notes from hospitalizations that describe how 'devoted' the mother appears to the child.  Seeing it once or twice may not be much, but repeatedly is suspicious as well.

My son from what I have been told barely has any tissue left in his ears and his hearing is awful he needs to wear hearing aids.

The decompression of the brain from what I was told was because he has craniosynstosis. I was told that it was a birth defect. I did go through testing to see if it was genetic on my part and it wasn't. Supposably the only thing that came up on her part was klippel feil syndrome. I don't know if any of this has to do with him being about 2 mths premature. When my ex wife went into labor she was in labor for 5 days due to the placenta started like seperating from the wall. The doctors had to use suction and forceps to get him out because he got stuck in her tail bone. According to my ex wife cameron has: Asthma, arnold chiari i malformation, bilateral hydronephrosis, kliipel-feil syndrome, craniosynostosis, hydromyelia, bilateral hearing loss, urine incontience, and spina bifida occulta, within the last 2 years has had a lot of anger and depresssion issues. He is on 3 medicines for depression at age 10.

I don't have joint legal custody. My attorney brought up munchausen's when my ex wouldn't produce medical records. After like 2 months of waiting she produced them but that was years ago.

Those are very serious illnesses.  Tubes in the ears 8 times sounds excessive (not tubes to drain cerebral fluid?) In any case, you still have the right to parent your child if he has a mild illness which is unrelated.  And with a child that has special needs, maybe you could work something out so that you are more informed about his condition (an opportunity to consult his doctors).  Even without joint legal, you should still have access to his medical records.  If you go back to court, I would have that specified in your CO if it is not there already.  Also, you should have some opportunity to consults doctors at least to understand the conditions, since they are complicated and serious from the sounds of them. Access to medical records doesn't mean a lot if you don't have a consultation to understand them. I am sure she won't cooperate, but if she doesn't have anything to hide she shouldn't have a problem with you directly speaking to the doctors.  If anything, it is in the child's interest, since he is in your care some of the time and it is best that any caregivers fully understand his conditions.  You can also check on her, make sure that she really is acting on the advice of doctors with coordinated care.

But I will say, my own hairs raised the same as Kitty with your initial description of the mother's behavior (and even more with his list of illnesses).  I understand that you already tried, but having tubes in ears 8 times makes me wonder seriously.  That doesn't sound right.  Also, I will say, if MY child had so many conditions I would NEVER risk elective surgery.  He must be quite fragile if he has all of that.  Since your attorney brought up Munchausen's in the past it must not be super obvious in the child?  Some of those conditions I thought were associated with physical features that may be distinct.  This must be very tough for you.  Support is the key through all of this. 

I do have rights to all medical except the decision making for surgery's. Thanks I actually am getting ready to send her a letter stating that I want to know before cameron has any kind of doctors appointment. If I choose to be present then that is my choice. The court order states that I have the right to be present for all medical treatment. If she doesn't then thats another thing that she can be found in contempt for. She'll probably go and cry to her dad and then I will probably get a phone call. I'm sending 3 letters total the denial of visitation, the letter to medical, and I was thinking of sending one to her about her family being involved but I wasn't sure if I should I will copy and paste it and I appreciate any feed back please read below and let me know what you think plz. It might sound immature
but I am constanly getting a phone calls from him or she will call my fiance.

My letter
To: Ex
Fr: Dad
Date: November 29, 2009
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Tracy,
You are being informed in writing that all issues regarding Cameron is to be done between me, you, or our attorneys. I refuse to speak with your mother or your father unless it is an absolute emergency. Your father was very disrespectful to me and will not interfere with my visitation or my rights. Your fathers exact words were "to hell with your rights and the court order" I don't think the court system would agree. You also need to refrain from calling my fiancé .
<o:p></o:p>
Thank You,
<o:p></o:p>
Dad

Camsdad, you need to remove all names asap............not a good idea on a public forum.

Just out of curiosity, do you know how many doctors have treated your son over the years?  Like how many different doctors operated on his ears?  How many procedures have you been present for?  If it were me, I would be at every single appt., exam, procedure, and surgery.

I have to tell you again, your story is just chilling to me and my gut tells me this child is in danger.  Not imminent, of course, but as long as the ex pulls ALL the medical strings, Lord only knows what she'll do next to possibly harm him.

You need to understand that if this is true Munchausen's, then the denial of visitation is just another symptom of it.  Which means you can throw as many letters as you like at her about denial and it will still continue.  You can even take it to court........and they'll slap her hands and it might get better for a little while........but then she'll go right back to the same old routine.  So until you address the 'disease', the symptoms will continue.......

CamsDad

I've been watching your posts and pretty much agree with others.  Your son is at risk and Kitty is right on saying that the denial of access is a symptom of the sickness.  I'm betting the sickness is passed to Cameron's mother from her mother (or father).  BTDT.  By any standard, it appears her parents have far to great an influence concerning Cameron. It is likely that others you complain to will assume the same.

Munchausen by proxy ... personal past study revealed the disease takes various forms and it is difficult to prove.  One case I recall was from a totally disabled adult revealing unnecassary operations as a child.  In another case, the hospital suspected someone giving a baby medications to make the child ill  ... a hidden camera revealed the truth.  Has DCFS had any input to Cameron's medical care ???  Did an Insurance company aprove/pay for all these medical services  ??  It certainly appears medical standards MAY have been discounted or ignored along the way.



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  Just so you know  I'm in Tx but my case passed thru Wheaton/Dupage county so I have a feel for your experiences.  MY ex-wife and I or my kids never lived there but her parents (who never lived there) had gained some political influence there.  My Wheaton atty did a great job and was retained  over the phone (from Tx) and have never met him.

I thought Gemini's advice to contact a FR organization was excellent.

Please keep us posted.  Thanks and best to you and Cameron !
[/B]

Got a call last night from the ex wife all of a sudden my son has pneumonia. She told me that she didn't think that he will be able to visit this weekend either sucks. I wanted to see him. My birthday is on monday too. Apparently I can't treat him because she is the custodial and he has to be in her care her excuse every time. They just gave him antibiotic and he doesn't even have a fever anymore.

I'm saving my money to get my lawyer involve concerning the possibility of munchauen. Insurance public aid has always paid for all his surgeries and no dcfs has never been involved regarding medical with her. I should call dcfs on her because she makes my son take prescription drugs from her parents because her back hurts. She found out my fiance had surgery and called my fiance to ask her if the doctor by any chance gave my fiance vicodin because she ran out. She is so crazy

I will revise my letter thanks.
I wanted to go back and edit my post to remove names but don't know how without removing the entire topic? Anyone know how

I edited it for you, camsdad.  In the future, if you ever need to change a post, just click on the 'Modify' tab just above your post and it will open back up for editing.

'I should call dcfs on her because she makes my son take prescription drugs from her parents because her back hurts. She found out my fiance had surgery and called my fiance to ask her if the doctor by any chance gave my fiance vicodin because she ran out. She is so crazy'

So what's to say that any medications that were actually prescribed to your son she took instead??  If that's the case, then you have the possibility of child neglect.  Munchausen's is felony child abuse......she can go to prison for any or all of it.  Better for your son to not have a mother around than to continue being tortured by a monster.  Yes, by all means call DCFS...they'll be all ears!

As for the pneumonia, call the MD's office who wrote the script, ask him if your son was diagnosed and if so, is he so sick that you can't take care of him THREE/FOUR DAYS FROM NOW.  If the MD says you can, get him to write a statement to that effect and give it to the ex and see what she does.  I bet dollars to donuts she will still refuse visitation, $hit-can that MD, and find a new one that you don't know so she can make sure that doc is in her back pocket.

But keep the note from the MD.....good evidence in court that, even on a professional's recommendation and the actual MD who diagnosed the illness, she STILL refuses visitation.  So then you can prove it's NOT your son's illnesses, it's her vindictiveness.

Thankyou for helping me modify my post. I placed a call to the dcfs hotline and I'm hoping they will do something about it. Good idea about the doctor. Cams doctor is a family friend so my concern is that the doctor will side with her. Write back later when I know more

Well aparantly my ex wife got my letter and she was mad. She called my fiance after I told her not to. My fiance is a peace maker she tries her best to see if she could talk to my ex and see if we could work anything out without having to go back to court. My ex and my fiance got into an argument about all this and my ex hung up on her. So anyway my ex wife called back like 20 minutes later and apologized to my fiance and according to her wants to work this out because she doesn't want me taking her back to court. So I'm going to see what she has to say tomorrow. I am still concerned about my sons well being and I am still going to save money for a lawyer. When my ex says she wants to work stuff out I don't believe her. I wonder what she has up her sleeve now.

She probably wants to just delay it as long as possible.  You have a child who has some serious medical issues.  That does not mean he shouldn't have the benefit of both parents in his life. 

Illinois is a one-party state, meaning that you don't have to notify her if you're going to record your phone conversations with her.  I would recommend that you do.  There are calling cards you can get that will allow you to do this.  www.spoofcard.com (http://www.spoofcard.com)  Make sure that you're the one talking to her - not your fiance.  Your fiance really has no business getting involved in these kinds of disputes - just as your ex's father doesn't.  Keep it between you and your ex.

Be aware that anything she says in her effort to "work things out" will be up to her good faith only.  Meaning, you cannot ask the court for remedy if she doesn't stick to whatever promises she makes.  Since she has already shown that she doesn't feel she has to follow a court order, I don't see any reason you should take anything she says in good faith.

I cannot believe you have let this go this long. she really can't do this if your visits are court ordered

Gemini,
I totally agree with you. I wouldn't trust her as far as I could throw her. I don't want my fiance involved and neither does my fiance. My ex always calls my fiance and my fiance has told her not to call and to call me. My fiance and I use to share a phone thats how she got the number. Anyway going totally off subject. I am getting married on 4/25/2010 it lands on a sunday. Either way it lands on my visitation day and I usually get cameron until 5pm. Is there anyway to ask the judge for a special permission to have him for a little longer? I was thinking 8pm. My ex claims that she has no problem with cameron staying til 8pm but like I said I don't trust her at all and I rather have it legal. Is there anything I can do?

Oh I did talk to my ex today breifly I had to go to work and she told me I could pick up Cam tomorrow as scheduled. She told me he is still sick but she is going to try and work with me. Sounds like Bullsh*t but I'm glad I will be able to spend time with my son. She claims she doesn't want to go back to court for cams sake. When has that stopped her before from falsly acusing me and making my son testify. She just can't afford an attorney. Write later