*sigh* There is always something new to report...
Today my five year old told me that he has a BB gun at his grandmother's house, which he received as a christmas gift.
I called my ex wife and she explained that she authorize her mother and mother's boyfriend to buy him this gift. I find it a little disturbing because my five year old still lacks certain social skills along with realizing what sort of damage a gun can do. He is in kindergarten! and can't even tie his own shoes or ride a bike yet... and he has a BB gun! Not only does this upset me because he is WAY too young, in my opinion, for a gun, but this is a tradition passed down through my family that the father teaches his son how to shoot, WHEN HE IS OLD ENOUGH AND UNDERSTANDS THE CONSEQUENCES AND SAFETY PRECAUTIONS.
Can anything be done? I don't want him near a gun at such a young age. Not to mention, if he ever talks about this in school, I am just waiting for that parent/teacher conference because my son is talking about his gun to the other kindergarteners.
Can I restrict his grandmother from allowing him to play with a BB gun?
~Fatherforever
Mom's time - mom's rules... Just like your house/your rules... In other words, NO, you cannot dictate what happens on mom's time... It's just not your business.
I would check your state laws, though. It's always possible that it might be considered neglect on the part of the caregiver (in this case either BM or grandmother) to give a child under a certain age access to any kind of firearm. I know there are some states who have strict regulations even on paintball guns.
Quote from: txmom702 on Jan 11, 2010, 10:28:06 AM
Mom's time - mom's rules... Just like your house/your rules... In other words, NO, you cannot dictate what happens on mom's time... It's just not your business.
I diagree. This is a safety issue. If they bought the gun thinking it was no different than a water gun then it is his business because the child hasn't been taught properly how to use it. I got shot by a bb gun when I was young. And the kid knew better but thought it would be funny to shoot me in the rear. He missed his target and got me in the leg. Even at the distance he was, I was left with a bruise and welt. Can you imagine the damage that could be done if he shot a child at close range in the temple or the eye? A BB gun for a child that age is only a good idea if the parent or grandparent is using it as a teaching tool and it's not available for random use or play. Even at 15 my son uses his BB gun only when his grandfather is aware that he's doing so. (It's kept at my exFIL's)
But who is to say they aren't right there with him and haven't taught him?? That is assuming no one is teaching him.
Quote from: tigger on Jan 11, 2010, 12:05:50 PM
Quote from: txmom702 on Jan 11, 2010, 10:28:06 AM
Mom's time - mom's rules... Just like your house/your rules... In other words, NO, you cannot dictate what happens on mom's time... It's just not your business.
I diagree. This is a safety issue. If they bought the gun thinking it was no different than a water gun then it is his business because the child hasn't been taught properly how to use it. I got shot by a bb gun when I was young. And the kid knew better but thought it would be funny to shoot me in the rear. He missed his target and got me in the leg. Even at the distance he was, I was left with a bruise and welt. Can you imagine the damage that could be done if he shot a child at close range in the temple or the eye? A BB gun for a child that age is only a good idea if the parent or grandparent is using it as a teaching tool and it's not available for random use or play. Even at 15 my son uses his BB gun only when his grandfather is aware that he's doing so. (It's kept at my exFIL's)
Still doesn't matter. Mom can let child watch rated R movies, play rated "M" video games, and eat junk food all day long if she wants; or let him run around the neighborhood by himself, or ride his bike in the street. Unfortunately, people are allowed to be crappy parents. Legally, dad is not allowed to dictate what goes on during mom's time. Just like Mom can't dictate what goes on during his time. What he can do is teach child, on his time, how to use and respect firearms. That's about it.
Quote from: txmom702 on Jan 11, 2010, 12:56:12 PM
Quote from: tigger on Jan 11, 2010, 12:05:50 PM
Quote from: txmom702 on Jan 11, 2010, 10:28:06 AM
Mom's time - mom's rules... Just like your house/your rules... In other words, NO, you cannot dictate what happens on mom's time... It's just not your business.
I diagree. This is a safety issue. If they bought the gun thinking it was no different than a water gun then it is his business because the child hasn't been taught properly how to use it. I got shot by a bb gun when I was young. And the kid knew better but thought it would be funny to shoot me in the rear. He missed his target and got me in the leg. Even at the distance he was, I was left with a bruise and welt. Can you imagine the damage that could be done if he shot a child at close range in the temple or the eye? A BB gun for a child that age is only a good idea if the parent or grandparent is using it as a teaching tool and it's not available for random use or play. Even at 15 my son uses his BB gun only when his grandfather is aware that he's doing so. (It's kept at my exFIL's)
Still doesn't matter. Mom can let child watch rated R movies, play rated "M" video games, and eat junk food all day long if she wants; or let him run around the neighborhood by himself, or ride his bike in the street. Unfortunately, people are allowed to be crappy parents. Legally, dad is not allowed to dictate what goes on during mom's time. Just like Mom can't dictate what goes on during his time. What he can do is teach child, on his time, how to use and respect firearms. That's about it.
Yes, but some of that is bordering on neglect and endangerment. That is where I want to know where that line in the sand in drawn, from what is reasonable to what is not. It's not even his mother who has anything to do with the gun, it's her mother's boyfriend, whom I know nothing about! The children's upbringing is joint, so I would think it should not matter on whose time it is... if it's something that one parent doesn't approve of that's it?
\He has been taught how to shoot it, andis supervised, but I had a long talk (as long a talk as you can havewith a 5 year old) about the fact that this is a potentially deadlyweapon. They didn't so much as discuss anything of the sort with him!And it bothers me even moreso, because him and his younger brother (3year old) have nerf guns at my house with the foam darts, and evenwith those they aren't allowed to shoot anyone. And that's a nerfgun! I don't want him to get the wrong idea, especially with howcareless my ex wife is with what they are exposed to anyways. I amgoing to look into what can be done, I don't feel as though I can sitidly by and hope nothing happens.
I don't know the first placeto look though, as far as Washington state law. I guess I will gowade through the mass of laws pertaining to children and see what Ifind.
http://www.starbeacon.com/archivesearch/local_story_136080651
So I guess my question is, do they need the consent of both parents for this activity, since neither parents are involved with him when he is in possession of the BB gun? And the person who is, is not even a relative. I am having a hard time finding any useful information for Washington state as far as parental consent in a divorce case.
Thanks again,
~Fatherforever
Quote from: txmom702 on Jan 11, 2010, 12:56:12 PM
Still doesn't matter. Mom can let child watch rated R movies, play rated "M" video games, and eat junk food all day long if she wants; or let him run around the neighborhood by himself, or ride his bike in the street. Unfortunately, people are allowed to be crappy parents. Legally, dad is not allowed to dictate what goes on during mom's time. Just like Mom can't dictate what goes on during his time. What he can do is teach child, on his time, how to use and respect firearms. That's about it.
I still disagree. There are state laws regarding firearms and a BB gun is a firearm. Can't be purchased by anyone under the age of 16 in NC. (Air guns have an age limit of 18.) It's not about dad DICTATING what goes on in BM's house or on her time, it's about protecting his life and future. It's about educating clueless people (Mom, Grandma and GM BF). It's not about control.
'Mom can let child watch rated R movies, play rated "M" video games, and eat junk food all day long if she wants; or let him run around the neighborhood by himself, or ride his bike in the street. Unfortunately, people are allowed to be crappy parents.'
But when the child's live or those of others (like child shooting someone else at close range), that more than fits the bill for child endangerment. I've heard of children taken away from parents who failed to keep the child(ren) from junk food and caused early onset diabetes and heart disease.........they call it willful child neglect and abuse, because the parent was fully aware of the repercussions of allowing the child to continue to only eat unhealthy food and let them do it anyway. There's no difference in this case.
It's not about dictating what goes on in another parent's house or control.......it's ALL about protecting the child and not endangering him.
Call the local police near where child lives (their non emergency number) and ask them if their are any laws in the state, county or town about BB guns. If not, then you are out of luck... If there are...then you have some what of a case if mother is not following the law. Let us know what you find out...
I'm a CASA in my county and one of the major things we look for on home visits is whether there are elements in the home which could be a potential harm to the child. That's everything from medications left in reach of the child to weapons that are not kept locked up. If we, or DCS, saw anything like that we would be required to report it and an investigation would be launched. Odds are that the parents would be made to remedy the conditions or risk having the child removed from their home. Based on the things I was taught in my CASA training, I would assume that this father does have a right to intervene if he truly believes his child's life is in danger.
I was also shot by a BB gun when I was younger. My brother was target shooting with it in the backyard and claims it ricocheted and hit me in the rear. It left a giant welt and bruise and my mom had to inspect it to make sure the BB didn't get lodged into my skin. BB guns are not toys. They are however a good teaching tool to help initiate kids into firearms. My brother and I had both been through a hunter's education class to teach us gun safety and our father had taught us how to shoot a Daisy BB gun and his .22. Even after that training, my brother was still irresponsible enough to "accidentally" shoot me. He was a teen at the time. I can't imagine handing a BB gun to a 5 year old, even with adult supervision.
I would suggest that you keep looking into the laws and maybe even give DCS a call and see what they can tell you about the state laws. Talk to police officers too since they should know the laws as well. Even if the laws say they can have the gun in the home, get it documented that you checked so if something should happen with the gun in the future you can prove that you were concerned and did what you could to protect your son.
Ok. Your son has been gifted with a BB gun. The next opportunity, tell YOUR son to bring HIS BB gun with him. Of course the BB gun stays with you (under lock and key).
Alternatively, go to gma's and retrieve your son's BB gun with peace officer stand by if necessary.
This is a teaching moment !!!