SPARC Forums

Hi All,

I have done a dragnet through many of the forums looking for effective solutions to the big conflicting custody issues especially regarding visitation.  All I can say and probably like many of you out there, is this is not an individual experience and most certainly one that is crying out for solutions.  Basically I have done and been through the standard denial stuff, the accusations of child abuse sexual and physical where the courts issue a TRO and place restrictions.   Fortunately I was always cleared and the accusations found to be unfounded.  But I do understand that the way the courts and DV advocates work tirelessly to achieve is to be right once no matter how many times they try, that is all it takes.   

The other standard tactics of course many of us are familiar with, (Is there a compendium somewhere where people can do a check list of the methods used and what they can expect ? After all this has been going on for at least twenty years and the courts have not changed in figuring it out or so it would seem ).  So really there is not much more I can add to some of the stories have many have posted.

I am however looking for methods of presenting the argument to the court in a way that they cannot refute.  I did in my last trial get all the medical records, all the police reports and all the missed visitations along with CPS reports and deposition testimony.  Unfortunately they were all declared hearsay, (yes I used an attorney and he presented them all as exhibits) I did try as a last effort and at great financial cost present what was supposedly one of the top Psychologists who deals with custody matters and in fact who wrote many books on the subject, but the judged ruled his testimony, testing and research 'not credible', and this psychologist has written many books on the subject and wrote a few one that lawyers use as a reference.  SO be warned about wasting your money with psychs. 

The biggest obstacle of course has been the GAL, from authorizing missed visitation so the former spouse could go see her friends, changing schedules and interfering with placement in general to swimming lessons for a three month old and myriads of other excuses, even representing the former spouse in court when the former spouses attorney was on vacation.  My attorney at the time was doing a lot of expensive talking with the GAl but would never let me know what the meeting were about.

Regardless up till now I was always able to see things through and somehow get to see the kids, who are now 6, and 7.  But the judge has ordered them to be 8 and 9 along with other misfinding of fact and law, but I a certainly not going to go back into court and let him know his judgement is impaired.

Now the former spouse is being coached by an advocacy group on how to stop visitation and avoid the courts, basically I am informed that the standard practice is to keep them away as long as possible and after about 6 months to a year or longer then the judge will rule in her favor and give her sole custody because the legal scenario is constructive for a judge to rule that way.

Thanks
   

A lot going on here...

What does your current orders state to see kids and is she allowing those visits now?

I will await your response to that to give you some more info...the only thing I can say is if you can get pick ups at school then mom can not interfere..

Visitation is weekends, 2 weekends then miss one, then two weekends.  Only certain holiday placements are allowed to displace those.

School, no, the judge ordered that I have nothing to do with the children's schooling.

Previously I asked for visitation at a police station as a mid point, but the judge ordered I pick up the children and return them.  The distance is 112 miles.

I was offered shared custody at one point on a more equal placement if I moved to where the former spouse moved to, but the FP stated that if I moved there she would move away, so it was pointless and even then she stated that she would not agree to any placement.

Last hearing was to adjustment and clarify holiday schedules two weeks ago.  During those weeks she had taken out a TRO because she wanted Easter weekend, so I was to miss my weekends with the children because of the TRO which was dismissed.  This has been the pattern since, she will now if she behaves as she has done before go to a different agency and claim child abuse and get them to roll the ball for her probe the crap out of the children and place more psychiatric help or therapy for them, I have not seen the children in over 5 weeks now.

Last trial to address this issue was september last year, as a result of that the attorneys and psychs took every last penny I had including the house.  I did also lose my job over the court events and the court schedule but especially due to the sexual abuse allegations, although cleared of any wrong doing, my work in a college was in jeapordy, as she had a direct line to the president for all the BS.

Ok, since you have an order have you tried filing contempt of court on her instead of modifying the order? Contempt of court, she has to go to court and say why she is not allowing visitation. In the contempt court papers you can ask for make-up time (may some more summer time?) and for her to pay your lawyer fees since she is going against a court order. Contempt of court will get her a slap on the wrist the first few times but the judge will get sick of her.

The schooling, I meant to do pick ups there. You can ask for that in the motion and write "mother has refused court ordered parenting time on XX. Father requests make-up time added to his summer visit, lawyer fees, and that he pick up children from school so mother can not interfere with pick-ups"

Then when you get there, ask for exact weekends you get children (start date so the school knows whose weekend it is and also put in writing that mother can not pick children up early or sign children out on fathers parenting days, also what to do when school is out or child his home...go for the police station again and just say "judge, we tried it and she wont release kids, I just want time with them".

Contempt papers can be found online or pick them up at your family court...fill them out and hand them back in. It is free to file here. You can start to represent yourself. It really is an easier hearing as she has to answer to why the kids are not coming... Does she have a lawyer? They will tell her to get one as this is considered "Criminal" within the family court system.

I understand the motion process and have tried it myself, unfortunately I have been completely unsuccessful in getting a judge to rule favorably, other than stretch out the cases to long periods.  If you can read the text of the court record and interpret them for what they are here is the link so that you can see what has been done. 

http://wcca.wicourts.gov/courtRecordEvents.xsl;jsessionid=A6EBB0480D3B05DAF6A165556C8FEDB4.render6?caseNo=2004FA000054&countyNo=14&cacheId=B4DA43208611D78FB726C5D966299944&recordCount=10&offset=9&linkOnlyToForm=false&sortDirection=DESC

At the moment and my last motion was to change the venue to get rid of the GAL who has been instrumental in helping to keep the kids away and creating problems, also get it into a court that may be more helpful in resolving problems and not have the same people who rule in favor of their own interests.  I am basically trying to find a court that will rule on it's own orders, hopefully this one will and will follow through, as this is basically my last shot.  For example if you do read the link, you will see I can get an agreement in court but to enforce anything you have to use an attorney or file yourself as you have suggested.  Where I am from, they have basically told me they have a policy where they will not prosecute mothers nor will they force children to take their visitation.  I have even sat down in the middle of the police station playing with the children, the mother states to the children that they should not go with daddy. And the policemen is telling me that as long as she does not tell me that I cannot take the children, she is well within her rights. Which of course is ridiculous but it is what it is.  I have about 60 police reports of missed visitation and about 50 personally documented accounts.  So the procedure I am familiar with is I file a motion for enforcement, the Judges around here will order mediation.  Mediation is unsuccessful or abrogated and the judge will take a hearing, he appoints a GAL, and then we go round the merry go round.  However I am over cautious as the former spouse is capable of anything, she has been teaching the kids to say I touch them in their private areas, and also has created plausible scenarios by damaging the children by pinching them or marking them, or on one occasion even hurting my son's penis, to create a plausible scenario of sexual abuse.  Fortunately for me the story was unfounded but cost me almost 6 months without seeing the children.  There are other psychological factors involved I am sure, but I am trying to simplify a complicated situation and just simply get the kids on my visitation without hindrance.   

Ok..so it looks like you won the change of venue?
Next step would be to file there for the contempt and see how they deal with things...

As you know, family court is very very slow and unfair. Work with their schools, find out when there are public things you can go to...Field Day, Concerts, Christmas party, end of the year party. As their father, you are allowed in the school, and get all info. Send them things in the mail.

Have you tried court ordered counseling with the kids and YOU. Maybe when you file for the contempt you can ask for court ordered counseling for father and children. Then mom can not pull them out. Also, shows you are willing to do anything to see them.

Stinks...many times, family court allows the mother to influence the kids not to go to visits ...and they get away with it for a long time. It takes many trips to the court house and a good judge or Gal to make it right.

Unfortunately as I have stated before the school is not doable I now live 100 miles away, (it i the only way I found to stop her stalking my house on the weekends I have visitation.) If the children are outside in the garden playing she will watch and report any infraction of my parenting.  She can make anything up she likes and the police will always come to the door to investigate.  So, apart from that I got on great with the school and they knew exactly what was going on, but the Judge's order as I have previously stated leaves all decisions regarding schooling with the former spouse.  I understand this is a broad statement and it has been used by the former spouse to suggest it also means little if no contact with the school.  With the contract words being so broad and not specific, it will be difficult to argue it's intent, but the Judge crafted the order and it has some interesting twists but unfortunately not in my favor.  I must for example pick up the children on Xmas day at 1.00 p.m. then return them to their mothers house at 10.00 p.m. and then pick them up on the same day at 10.p.m. to continue the visitation.  Similarly for Thanksgiving, I pick them up on thanksgiving day at 6. p.m.  I thought that was what the clarification hearing was about, but unfortunately it turned out to be an interesting whatever mommy wants apart from the change of venue.

I am awaiting her next denial, which means I file a contempt order for issuing the TRO to obtain a missed placement legally, i.e. constructive using the law, then missed placement by not having the children present and available and the same again.  I will try to bring in the previous missed placements as exhibits to demonstrate her uncooperative nature but it is really a long shot the judge won't just start a new set of fresh start records etc.  But I will do my best, and thanks.

The other item I forgot to request advice on how to approach is, at the moment the former spouse is not communicating.  The court ordered the continued use of an online program called family wizard.  I can however write emails through this but they are usually are never responded to and certainly anything that is relevant in timely manner or is responded to after the fact or in as short a time as to make it impossible to attend an appointment or respond before the action is taken.

But my current dilemma is how if at all possible is it for me to find out if she intends to withhold the children, I have the standard B.S. where everyone she has contact with is poisoned in terms of their belief.  And there is no one to act as mediator to find out her intentions.  I have asked of her if she wants to keep the children again this weekend by phone, and by email, are there any resources I can use.  I am constantly of course checking to see whether she has any TRO's in effect, in which case I would automatically be in criminal contempt, so I am not saying I am paranoid, I am just stating a disposition to the problem that is overly cautious.   The other thing of course is to try and avoid spending gas traveling to the pick up point and wasting 6 hours plus the time it takes to request a police report, which sometimes I can wait till 9 or 10 in the evening depending on how busy the police department is.

Thanks

We were ordered to use OFW too -- and also ordered to check it every other day.

SO....I could easily print off the main page that showed whenever there was a period of time that he didn't check in, and he could do the same.

SO....maybe that detail has to get added -- that both of you need to check it every other day.

Then again, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink (necessarily).  She can still check it and ignore you.

You have an order -- and when the children are not exchanged at the time listed in the order, you have no choice but to ask the court to find her in contempt and then ASK for make-up time for each and every day that the CHILDREN missed time with you.

Skip the police report -- after you have a few.  Buy a pack of gum or get gas with a date time stamp on it.

I don't understand the dilemma you stated "how if at all possible is it for me to find out if she intends to withhold the children" -- the court order outlines weekends, period.

Yes, it's expensive to make the drive, and more expensive to go to court and say "HEY, she's not following the rules YOU, your honor, set out" -- but you gotta do what you gotta do.

I agree...but word your online communication a little differently. Do not ask her if she is keeping them....
Write: According to the court order, I will meet you at XX time on Friday. If there are any issues, please write back on here.

Since you are going to a new judge, I would get the police report for the next 2-3 times (file after this weekend but collect a few more).

You can also overnight her a registered letter (she does not need to sign) the "letter on intent of visitation" from this website. More proof of communication.

You can call the local police at the exchange town and say you have an order to pick up child there but due to the past can you someone there and can you call that morning to see if she filed an RO. They are used to it...

Ocean -- folks have to sign for a registered letter,

Overnight is fine, maybe that can be tracked on line.

Priority Confirmed Delivery needs no signature and you can track that on line.

Registered needs a signature.

Restricted Delivery Registered -- means ONLY the person you're sending it to can sign.

Thank you all for responding it is a lonely place to be, but like many of us the hardest part of course is maintaining the mechanical side of all this B.S. and trying to keep the emotional, financial and personal interests out of it.

I did write on OFW the following prior to the commentary.  I do this so that perhaps others can learn from the error in the message pointed out from a member in the use of words.   Certainly I have many of these on family wizard going back to 2007.

Andrew xxxxxx
To:	XXXXXXXXXXXXXX	(first view:                                                                                       never)
Sent:	05/15/11 02:55PM
Subject:	Hi I have not heard from you
Message:	Dear XXXX,      I have left a reasonable number of messages on your phone, as well as communication through this program Family Wizard to at least communicate with me and let me know what is going on and what are your intentions. I have not seen the children as scheduled in the court order by actions you have brought and I feel you are frustrating any attempt to see the children. You appear to be using whatever means are possible, even wasting state resources on issues that do not exist or certainly are not of my creation. I also believe these are costly and ultimately detrimental to the best interests of the children.      I would appreciate at the very least that you let me know either by email on this program or by phone, if I am to get the children this coming weekend as scheduled. There are no national holidays or recognized events that you need to attend with the children that would serve as an excuse and I do not believe there are any special events that directly concern the children. So they will be free to spend the time visiting with me unhindered.      My main concern is that you please do notify me that you intend to continue withholding the children in order that I am able to conserve my scarce resources both in gas and finances to serve other purposes. I am stating this to avoid the financial problems it creates through lack of communication and more importantly to avoid costs. Where the expenditure becomes an unnecessary burden that serves no one. Thank you

So that unfortunately is the message I wrote prior to the last posts in offering advice, for me the scary part of all this is the whole system seems to be geared towards turning all parenting and the processes involved into money and rules for being a parent.  Divorced parents today and tomorrow every parent who decides to have kids, scary thoughts about the future.

Thanks Mixed bag! I always have to ask at the Post office when I go.

Andrew...too many words. For next time, no excuses, no discussions. Straight to the point. If you want to add a sentence "if you are not at the exchange point in the papers, I will be forced to file a police report and contempt of court against you"

Dad -- why are you ASKING if you can pick them up when you have a court order that says your children are allowed to spend time with you?

Let me play devil's advocate here, k?

Let's say I'm your EX.

Let's say that I interpret that if you're asking, you don't really want them, no matter what the court order says, so FINE, they can stay with me because obviously you don't really want them because you're asking.

Now, back to the normal me.

You have an order.  Notify her that you will be exercising your parenting time according to the order.

Drive, buy gas there to prove you went.

Do this say a month in a row so that clearly she is denying weekends with you because if she doesn't let you have them say 3 weekends in a row, clearly the order is not being followed.

FILE in court.   Don't mention court unless YOU're ready to follow through -- and as painful as it is, sometimes you have no options.

Thanks all the information was very helpful. 

Ok So I turned up tonight waited, got myself a cup of coffee from macdonalds where the pickup is, kept my receipt and cup.  However from experience I did also phone the police department got an officer to take a report confirm my presence and of course cite the report with number.  While I do understand this procedure as I have 64 missed placement reports of a similar nature which were dismissed previously as hearsay.  I have as a note found the courts to be a little unfriendly when you try to use them as evidence, so where I am from you have to also request or subpoena either the person who sold you the item or the reporting officer to testify as to the report or receipts veracity.  Otherwise the court will reject it as hearsay and not accept the receipt or report as authenticated or alternatively tell you to get a lawyer to validate your claim.  So in the meanwhile I note that there is a notice filed today for change of placement from the former spouse and a motion.  SO it would seem as I have stated before that I am in the death throws of losing contact with the children.  I have in no way given up, but as I have stated the attorneys and lawyers along with the judge seem to construct a scenario where they can orchestrate a parendectomy by default, by simply wearing you down and out money you.   So Monday I file my motion and we will see what happens, for those interested I will update this thread as I go along.

Thanks   

o.k., I disagree with your strategy.

filing for a change of custody....now?  I believe it won't work and you won't be successful.

64 missed time, 64 police reports....  and YES, you have to get the police officer to testify that he wrote the report and that she wasn't there.

Same thing with any other piece of evidence -- like if you get a report from Social Services, THEY have to testify that they wrote the report.

What court did you file in for the 64 missed times?

He just got the court to switch jurisdiction so maybe now it won't be so mommy biased.

File contempt of court papers in the new court...hopefully it will be better there.

I am sorry Mixed bag you may have misunderstood something, my former spouse has filed for a change of placement on the 19th.  Previously the GAL would prevent and fight for motions to be admitted under the 5 day rule, I would object she would file again and so on and so forth, until somebody missed the deadline.  Then she would get it changed by default to benefit the GAL, the attorney I had at the time just simply would not object, and basically told me.  'Don't bother wait until the children are 18', and he further explained that he talked with the GAL and they stated that they were 'not sure I would do to her what she was doing to me', so much for clarifying the way the legal system works.

1	05-20-2011	Notice of assignment of judge	Evenson, James
2	05-19-2011	Notice of motion, motion
(http://wcca.wicourts.gov/images/spacer.gif)        Additional Text:      (http://wcca.wicourts.gov/images/spacer.gif)        to Change: Physcial Placement
3	05-19-2011	Transcript
(http://wcca.wicourts.gov/images/spacer.gif)        Additional Text:      (http://wcca.wicourts.gov/images/spacer.gif)        10/21/08 Hearing
4	05-19-2011	Transcript
(http://wcca.wicourts.gov/images/spacer.gif)        Additional Text:      (http://wcca.wicourts.gov/images/spacer.gif)        11/19/07 Hearing
5	05-19-2011	Transcript
(http://wcca.wicourts.gov/images/spacer.gif)        Additional Text:      (http://wcca.wicourts.gov/images/spacer.gif)        4/8/09 Hearing

I have NOT filed a motion someone else HAS I was waiting for the judicial transfer and paperwork, and I understand that there is a summons with my name on it, so I await the summons service to see what it is.  It could also be a TRO not sure until I see it

http://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetails.do;jsessionid=51BDCD242F3E78E2241745CFCED87F19.render6?caseNo=2011FA000183&countyNo=56&cacheId=0021C4550038824B6F984648FFA80EDA&recordCount=7&offset=0#party_2

Thanks.

O.K., I just read the two links....and while it gives us a clue as to what happened, it doesn't give details,k?

Personally -- I too would wonder or be concerned about the fact that you were in a hotel during your week.....did I read that right?

I go back to what I said before.

And it looks like details got added when you went back to court time and time again.

Now that jurisdiction is changing to another county, start gathering new documentation from this point forward.

A receipt is sufficient to show that you attempted to exercise the parenting time YOUR CHILD is allowed to spend with you.

The summer is coming -- give her notice of what 3 individual weeks the child will be spending with you.

And nope, don't hook them together -- I get the feeling from the transcripts that this would not be allowed.  I think I read "3 individual weeks, one per month" so saying the last week in June and firt week of July won't be acceptable.  But lay it out now....and let Mom know.  (Heck, I used to notify about 6 months in advance -- which made dad angry, and Camilla even complained about having "left overs" -- vs. seeing the positive side of planning so that they could also plan).

If by the end of June, your child didn't get a week with you, FILE for contempt.  This is clearly evident in the transcripts.

If the child misses a weekend with you because the child is sick, Mom is supposed to provide a doctor's note and attempt a makeup weekend.  Have you been keeping track of this?  If not, start now.

And after a missed weekend, remind her of the rules -- doctor's note and attempted make up time -- and get ready to file -- yea, again.

Thanks for your response mix bag , but I still don't follow the, 'I too would wonder or be concerned about the fact that you were in a hotel during your week.....did I read that right?', where did you get that from ?

Sorry mixbag for my confusion I just have seen where you got that information from, but the allegation was just that an allegation, the commissioner found my explanation satisfactory.  At one time I used to travel down during the week and stop with a friend who runs a motel, but the caveat is I always went there by myself to look for jobs and I had no visitation also used it as a base for mailing etc, I stopped with my friend who lives not at the motel but in an apartment of their own.  The kids have never stopped in any motel with me without purpose such as in the Dells Water parks and on one occasion we had to stop near their school so they could attend a special event.  Other than that the allegation would be untrue.  The good thing of course is I always video and take pictures of every visitation I have, so you can pick any day and I can tell you and demonstrate what we (me and the kids) were doing, what happened when I picked the kids up, and what happened when I dropped them off.  I can allow you to see more detail of the case that explain some of the possible special and unique problems I may have that is if you like watching 'depositions' online, I believe I would have to find a more secure means for you to be able to get those links and not relay those links on a public forum.  If you are interested let me know how this can be achieved.

Just taken delivery of the court summons it states a request by my former spouse that I be placed on supervised visitation.  No other details, perhaps I will find out the facts or reasons when the court hearing is stated and I am handed the reasons at the hearing.

Have attempted to find out the exact date of any hearing, none have been set.  I assume the former spouse and DV advocacy support group is going to have this whitewashed by the court stating that the issue is in family court for a never ending determination or something.  Which is a common suggested tactic by a well versed court practitioner or advocate and my personal experience, so do watch for that one if you see it.   I delayed filing to determine the merit of what exactly was going on but shall now do so in order to progress my claim that she is violating and in contempt of a court order.  In order to elude to the problems I am dealing with I believe they are the issues of health, I am led to understand I am dealing with a person who is histrionic, depressed and medicated with a control factor of 5 out of 10 of an organic brain condition, delusional with a GAF of 50, if that helps anybody to understand another dimension to my problem.  I am in constant fear of what she may do to the children or me in order to achieve intended outcomes, so often walk very gently. Up until recently she was supported by a large crew of professionals, her new husband and the court appointed GAL.  Now she is not, mainly because there is little money left in the kitty! So again pointers and help appreciated.  I do feel sorry for my former spouse, but my respect and trust are long gone when the child abuse charges were put in place but my primary concern is the welfare of the children as long as I can or am allowed to be involved.

OK all I have filed my contempt motion to show cause, it looks like she is assuming her motion for supervised visitation is valid in her mind without authorization from any court and has stated to a police officer that she is working with a GAL and the CPS who are working with her to maintain her choice to with hold the children for the reason that she has filed a motion and I expect as in previous summer vacations I will not get the children.  As practiced where I live the advocacy groups tend to practice the support of mothers who keep the children away long enough so that fathers end up with a legal default of no contact and the award of sole custody to the mother. But I am keeping my fingers crossed the court will not do as they did before keep delaying the motion for years, as the last time I filed a motion it ended up turning into a trial that took two years to decide.

Fingers crossed... you filed in the new court right?

Right ! Not on the docket yet and service has to be made, but she is not at her house or anywhere to be found at this time.  I am unsure of her domestic situation but her last husband was having problems, and a rumor is around she is in another state for a prolonged vacation.  So we will see, I am not expecting to be able to complete the service of the motion so it should be interesting.

There's a way, even when they're trying to hide.

You gotta figure out what the court requires.

HERE it was attempt at last two known addresses, then file a motion to request permission for publication notice

Run the notice for 3 consecutive weeks.

THEN move forward....

Does she have an attorney? In my state, the attorney can be served and that is considered good enough.

Not that I am aware of but thanks for chiming in, her attorney withdrew a few months ago as did mine, (No money left here so that would explain why they have withdrawn and I have filed for bankruptcy) I am kind of missing the kids as it's my vacation time with them but this has been the same problem for the last five years.  But it is a good idea to suggest for those who know their former spouse has an attorney.

Thanks. 

Ok all,  an update, I have now received an affidavit in the mail from a notary and legal services supporting the former spouses motion for a temporary order for supervised visitation.  It states exactly what was alleged in the TRO of March this year almost word for word.  So it looks like she wants to go again and see if a different Judge or commissioner will giver the former spouse what she wants.  My experience is they usually do, I was given supervised visitation despite doing nothing in 07, where I had to employ an accredited social worker on a Saturday for two hours at $150.00 an hour plus travel over 6 weeks.  Even then my former spouse missed turning over the kids, so really even if I let her have what she wants she is still not going to do it and I do not believe the courts enforce their own orders anyway.

If I recall correctly she did the same in 06, 07, 08, 09, and now 11.  Basically what it does is allow her to with hold the children and there are no consequences and I never get my vacations with the children.  This year was slightly different in that she also asked for a TRO so she not miss having easter with the children which is stated quite clearly on the allegations.  'Mommy needs to be with the children over Easter' a witness stated , that aside, the allegations are the same and they were when dismissed in the TRO hearing of March.  I think they call the matter Res Judica, doing the same thing over and over again.    

Hi all, I managed to get service of my contempt by the sheriff processing department, I am still awaiting receipt confirmation but they have verbally acknowledged service, I will have to file the receipt with the court to get a court date for the contempt hearing.  In the meanwhile on the 20th I am before a court commissioner, who is hearing the supervised visitation motion from the former spouse.  Again I reiterate I require any input from anyone who in these family courts keeps getting motions for the same thing, and what their experience is, and how you get out of the legal loop to stop it happening, again and again.  I don't have much money left so the lawyers have long gone and got their pound of flesh.
At the moment there is no communication, either by phone, by email or family wizard with either the former spouse or the children, those items are part of my existing court contract order, and I have tried very hard and just short of knocking on the door.  I am remaining optimistic and calm, because there is no point in getting a hernia or ending up asking for help for males as their really is none short of seeing an attorney and forums such as this.

Still waiting for a hearing date to be set on my motion for Contempt filed on the 27th of May, I have learned that she has communicated with the court as I received a letter from the court commissioner stating so and he has stated that he cannot hear the contempt motion as that can only be heard by a Judge. My former spouse also has an attorney funded by an advocacy group to represent her or that is my understanding at this point.  I have communicated with that attorney stating that I need some discovery on what exactly is my former spouses beef and what evidence she has to overturn a recent Judges decision. To date, I have received nothing or a response but the attorney is now listed as the attorney of court record.

My biggest concern of course at this juncture is legal technicalities, the last time I encountered this situation as I have mentioned before is the commisioner will order a temporary order and I will just continue to wait for the court machinery to grind it's way along and the kids are eventually estranged.  The last time I filed such a motion I was dragged into the litigation and money vortex and I was placed on supervised visitation, during that time the GAL who represented the kids stated that the best thing I could do was give up my parental rights and her new husband could adopt the kids.  So this 20th of June her motion for supervised visitation will be heard in front of the commissioner, lets see what happens. 

Ok, Motion for supervised visitation was dismissed, date for contempt on my motion set for 20th July, a GAL and fees has been ordered. Now we wait again, former spouse has offered to let me see the children, but only because she lost her motion otherwise she stated if she had won I would not be seeing them again.  Regardless as has been pointed out we have to play by mommy's rules.  My concern as always is the length of time she has to work on the children and alienate them, it is a tough road, leaving tough choices.

Good! She was probably told that contempt is serious and if there is a court order she has to follow it. (although punishment is usually nothing for women from what I have seen).

Quote from: Andrew_S on Jun 23, 2011, 09:23:32 PM
Ok, Motion for supervised visitation was dismissed, date for contempt on my motion set for 20th July, a GAL and fees has been ordered. Now we wait again, former spouse has offered to let me see the children, but only because she lost her motion otherwise she stated if she had won I would not be seeing them again.  Regardless as has been pointed out we have to play by mommy's rules.  My concern as always is the length of time she has to work on the children and alienate them, it is a tough road, leaving tough choices.

Did she e-mail you this or was this during a conversation?  Because if it was an e-mail, it's something the GAL needs to see.....

I did sign this (below) agreement as a compromise as one of those tough choices, it comes down to facilitating access to the children over the Summer vacation periods for me, I will and expect that I will never get that time back.  I understand from the children they were kept in day care and I thought it would better if they spend time with me instead and if I allow more time to progress ultimately as in most cases the children will suffer lack of interaction with me and not only never learn anything from me but also we can just hang out and try be dad and kids, instead of being separated by trying to hold a position of legal validation.   It would have been almost 3 months since seeing the children if I don't.

I, XXXXXXX   have offered to give Andrew G Steiger parenting time in exchange for withdrawal of a motion for contempt against me.
June 21st 2011 at 6 pm to June 24th 2011 at 6.00 p.m.
July 16th 2011 at 6 p.m.until July 22nd at  6.00 p.m.
September 2nd 2011 at 6 p.m. until September 5th, 2011 at 6.00 p.m.

I XXXXXX will allow Andrew G Steiger to maintain his scheduled Summer Vacation as set forth in the court order for 2010 and clarification dated 2011.

Signed by Former spouse

Signed by her husband

And signed by me.

Quote from: ocean on May 17, 2011, 02:09:02 PM
A lot going on here...

What does your current orders state to see kids and is she allowing those visits now?

I will await your response to that to give you some more info...the only thing I can say is if you can get pick ups at school then mom can not interfere..

I agree, the federal DV agenda has become so strong now that they, I believe, have created a state in which it is common to falsely accuse to put the man on the defensive so that a woman is assured of winning.

That is part of the rational to make me believe I took the 'choice' and less conflict route, I have spent the last seven years fighting the courts and attorneys to follow common sense only to find out that they generally only follow the money, from the state, their pensions and of course federal funds. I seriously do not want to go into the litigation vortex that way again, or more to the point I am so fed up of these professional players I really have no time for any of them, especially the ones that claim they help the kids.  I will be paying for those people with no money and the majority of my income for the next ten years if not for the rest of my life paying their fees, under contempt.   On my way to this point as I have stated before, the false accusations have cost me my job, all my income, my house and almost all my sanity.  The result of my last court quest I was basically told that to have an effective deterrent I would have to invoke a criminal statute, but was also told that the DA will never prosecute a family court appointed custodian female.  I have had enough of court appointed GAL's as they are basically political advocates for the judges and public opinion, so I do advise males to stay as far away from these people as possible.  My kids were so messed up by the person who claimed to protect them it is not even funny, I am working hard with the children to give them simple respite as that is all I am left to give them no point in trying to believe that having therapists who charge you up the wazoo to fix nothing over as many years as they and the lawyers can create billability, I am hoping as they get older they may view me as something a little more than a fun guy to be with and their real daddy, but I believe I am a little too late as the children are pretty dominated by some all female contenders with not a male role for the children in sight other than the few guys who I am aware of that bed hop between the kids other parental role models.  However I will point out that something that my former spouses attorney did tell me privately, he stated he did not like my spouse, but it is his job to protect her and his income, but he is not the idiot that stuck his d*** in his well F U client, and whatever I do, his best advice was to take it up the ass and wait until the kids are 18 and hope for the best the courts are going to give you nothing but pain.  The same as any of the other attorneys, you are not going to beat federal policy, family court politics or especially TANF funds.  But of all the attoneys my spouses attorney was the most truthful to me.  It was a strange revelation to me to find out that gender equality is not obtainable, and the majority of this nations children of divorce are technically all on federal welfare so the state can claim it's federal cash.  I believe it was Hoeven in ND who made this explicitly clear to his legislature when he said ' If he allowed shared parenting, his state would lose $100 million dollars in federal assistance.  Now that is all 100% professional welfare for a predatory system that has developed over the last few decades.  The indirect costs of this policy as a deficit to citizens costs taxpayers at least ten times as much to fix. years down the line, but I am to understand certain federal programs have served their purpose and the effects are permanent for quite a few generations to come.   

Back again, the contempt was dismissed and we are all back on the family court merry go round again, however we are in mothers retribution phase for pissing her off.  I believe this was sparked off again when the kids were refusing to come, and the 'boy(8), started telling me I was sticking my finger up his butt, hitting him in the back of the head, was mean to him, and beat him all the time.  The 'Girl (7)' also chimed in stating that I hit her on the back of the head and gave her headaches, was a very mean person and a piece of crap.  To which the 'boy' also remonstrated me the same way with words.  Mother of course was not helping the situation with grandma who apparently seemed to feed the children this crap.  But the main problem was of course I have no control of the situation as the children remained within the confines of mothers vehicle, and mommy is certainly not going to help get the children out.  I did ask the children when I did these things, and they responded all the time, to which I asked when and then did ask the mother why she was telling the kids I was fu**ing them, as that is what they were telling me.   

Grandma responded stating how dare you say those things in front of the kids, when the kids themselves were saying the same words themselves.   The girl stated before that I put my pee pee in her crotchie and my fingers too.  I did remain a few yards away from the vehicle as passers by were asking the mother if she needed any help.  Anyway I withdrew a little distance and let the mommy explain her side of the story to the helpful members of the public that heard whatever tale she was stating.  I asked the children again if they were coming or not in a more positive voice to which they responded no, we want to stay with mommy and go to the apple orchard.  So any whoo, I phoned the local police station and after about ten minutes of waiting, one officer turned up, but stated up front he was not going to help me and remained in his car.  I withdrew a little distance and called the children to come with me they refused encircled by mom and grandma.  The policeman must have changed his mind about something after he spoke to mom.  As he pointed towards my son and spoke loudly to him to 'Go with your dad, now and get out of the car'.  The children looked at mom and started crying, she then gathered the kids around her and approached the police officer.  The police officer pointed towards me looking at the children and said 'go'.  I approached the children and reached out one to each hand and guided them to my car.  Placed them in and  spoke to them gently saying I loved them, give them a hug and told them to fasten their seat belts.  When they were secure I closed the doors approached the police officer thanked him and returned to the car. 

I then drove the car and kids away from the car park to a safe distance and as I was driving asked them what all that was about.  Boy states that he is mad with me because I won't let him play football in his mothers area and the girl states that because I have them on Saturdays they can't go to the therapists or their dance lessons or their football meetings, and all their friends will be there and they won't. And Grandma has cancer and will die soon and they need to be with her and mom might die too because their auntie Susie tried to commit suicide.   Regardless, a few minutes into the journey I queried again what it was about, they were very quiet and sheepish, I did ask them on each individual point, to answer yes or no on the points that they spoke of, By 'did I', questions.  Did I do x to you, to which they answered no, I then asked them why they said those things, again they were quiet and sheepish.  I dropped the subject and the kids were back to normal and we played a few games, sang a few songs etc on the way back and all was well.  I did try again to find out what triggers them to say such awful things but they just go quiet and as my time is limited with them, what am I supposed to do.  Other than tell them that it is wrong to say bad things if they know those things aren't true, to which they agreed.    I did get an email through the family wizard program that the mommy had refused to use as she re signed up for it.  The email stated she does not wish to speak with me and that all communications will be through the FW email.  Great I thought, at least things will be in writing again.   

The week after dropping the kids off I get a package from her new attorney demanding money for old prescriptions that I thought I had already paid for and that I give up my weekends that the children may enjoy the time with their own local community and extracurricular activities, and of course now I am unemployed also a separate contempt from the court for unpaid CS, not filing my taxes with the court etc etc..   So it looks like I will be getting board and lodging at the taxpayers expense for xmas, along with a license suspension and if appropriate loss of any other state granted privileges. 

Oh well the joys of modern American parenthood best described as a roller coaster that you can never get off.  Is there a term for this that goes by the name of LAS or something,  Legal  Attrition something syndrome  or similar, because I really want to stay away from these legal people, it' like having a proctologist, gynecologist and bucketful of leeches messing with your body and your head.  But they do it ever so subtly and call it in the best interest I can make out of your kids.    Any input, pointers, remonstrations are welcome, I live to learn.    

My dh and I could of wrote that whole first part word for word!! Omg...it was like reading our story, except our police officer did nothing...but the kids yelling, cursing, saying they are not getting out of car. And getting the letter that we owed medical money...Same...

My dh wore a voice recorder at pick-ups and you can hear the kids yelling and ex not walking away like she was ordered to do by GAL. She gave them rewards if they did not go with dh.

At next hearing, call that police officer as a witness. Go get the certified police report and see what he wrote in report too

Dh ex hired a new lawyer this past summer to send a threatening letter about money owed, well, lets just say that DH called and told him he was number 8 lawyer and may want to get facts straight before he sends another letter here. That children are covered under two insurances and have no copays. Have not heard a word since.

Update, today 01/13/12 I got a call from the children.  Basically, 'We are not coming' (For visitation) !  I ask why, then we go through a series of questions.  It turns out from the mother that I am allegedly beating the children again, interestingly the mother has indicated that she has downloaded the contents of this forum post and has submitted them to the police. (Attourneys, or court !).  So all posters do be careful what you post on here.  However, I responded by stating I have no concern of the contents of the post. 

The children whom I asked to speak to again responded by stating initially that they have 'homework' to do, to which I respond that they can bring their homework with them.  Then for some reason the children especially our son decides to go on a tirade of demands and requests, basically.  You will let me go to sports, basketball, football and others or else he is never coming again.  The boy is 8 now, and the last visit he indicated along with our daughter 7 that mommy had something special arranged for them, but knew that they had visitation with me this weekend.   So something adds up and no one is going to be truthful, and sadly the children are being taught to be deceitful.  I have as stated before no control or input over what the children do in terms of school or sports, the only thing I understand is I have theoretical control of is, my unenforceable visitation or court allotted parenting time.  While I certainly have no desire to get into the game which I have so eloquently experienced already in the past of the mother.  Who will enroll all activities she can to become encumbent on you to furnish time and resources, even if it means going to a field in the middle of nowhere to some strange sports event that has nothing to do with mainstream education or valid sports.  So the effect is the children will spend most of your visitation in a transitional point as opposed to quality time with you.  Which I believe is the logic of thinking for what it is worth.     

So it looks like we are headed back to the old BS again, I will be making my way to the pick up point as usual and let us see how this goes.  I will attempt again to call again in the meanwhile to attempt to 'reason' with the kids and hope vainly that mommy can't offer more candy than I can and see if the Kids have changed their minds, but we shall see.  Unfortunately it appears truly that the only thing that matters is you make your court ordered usury fees and payments, everything else you will have to find resources from friends and family or the state if you can afford it.   So anyone who wants to chime in on the old what to do next or what actions are possible, you are more than welcome.

The other thing I find out is some states practice rolling in GAL fees as child support,  it doesn't matter how those charges originate but some do not.  So be wary of that one.  As much as 60% of the total child support owed by fathers nationwide as is claimed by the states or federal government is actually fees, interest and services provided by the state which they roll into the cost of child support.  The book 'Taken into custody' by Stephen Baskerville.  Explains the charge off process by the state enrolled practicioners and many who live well and large by providing those services many of which you do or may not not need but the probate court need to officiate it's form of business.  The new one I noticed as well is of course the service charge for each child is now (in my state) not by an individual support order, but by each individual child. So that is a $ 65 additional fee per child payable by the obliging parent.  When did that happen !   

Try not to have a conversation with the kids. Just say daddy loves you and will be at the half way point on friday. This is an adult issue...talk to you soon". If they continue say "I am not discussing this with you, I will talk to mom later, have a great rest of the week and I will see you on Friday".

Get the paperwork together to file contempt on Monday. Hope she brings them later. Sad that she can not put the kids first instead of her hate for you. Kids deserve both their parents.

File Tuesday -- as this weekend is a 3-day weekend and Monday is a federal holiday where most courts will be closed.

Point is file on the very next day after being denied.

And don't get frustrated on Monday -- Federal Holiday.

oh yeah....lol Forgot about the extra day off :)

Ok Folks, back to square one again.  I have over the passed few weeks had a couple of missed visitations, and of course the I am not going to help you get the kids but will take a report.  The interesting thing on one of the reports is the reporting officer recieved a call about an hour later, and I was suppodsedly carrying a concealed weapon.  Spring and summer are here again and we have the annual pattern of you are not getting the kids no matter what !  So I assume what has happened in previous years will be the same this year, no kids at all. 

As for recent events just had a visit by the kiddie porn squad, apparently the kids were interviewed and something was said regarding something but irrespective of that I have no idea.  But they were looking for pictures of the children and I have or should I say had thousands of pictures of them.  The house was searched the girlfriend had all her stuff looked through as well as me feeling violated she feels devasted.  The computers, phone and anything else was confiscated.  I don't know what the results of their enquiries will be but I know I have not done anything wrong, but we are dealing with a philosophy and modern day witch hunt as opposed to anything real against dad's.   As I am in the death throes of doing anything about continuing to see the kids, we that is the relationship that I have needs to be preserved in respect of my girlfriend who is just as frustrated as me at the whole process and been party to a lot of the BS. 

So in summary the original GAL in the case said sign off and let their new dad adopt the kids and stop them being traumatized.  The psych who evaluated the family stated that in such cases by the time the children are between 11 and 13 you will not be seeing the kids.   The attorneys have all basically stated wait untl the kids are 18, and the judges don't or won't want to deal with it.   As for now as soon as she finds out where I am working she will contact them and have me fired based on the new set of allegations,  I am due in court for back child support and they are telling me I am screwed and as I expect I will getting my 60 days gratis of the tax payers and suspended driving lisence.  I did file again for a reduction in CS since I am earning a pittance but I doubt they will do it.  I was in the other county where the original case was for CS as well, they didn't find me in contempt but tacked on another 1600 dollars in fees to an existing order for 2442.  So I should imagine I will be up in the 10's of thousands of doallrs in arrearage pretty soon. 

Oh well, anyone is welcome to chime in, ideas and support are welcome.  I did speak to someone who went through something similar and he says it all about the money and no one gives a crap anyway until it's their turn.  I understand that connect the dots does not work as each individual department does there own type of work and not one of them is capable of figuring out what is going on.  As for court I am told the best thing I should do is stay away unless they invite you on penalty of arrest.   So after another traumatizing session I do not know what to expect in the a.m.  Wish me luck.

A few people privately have indicated that I am sharing too much information, the reality is I am so fed up of this crap, the BS the manipulation and the way the system is used within the confines of the family court system I have almost given up caring.  Vindictiveness is one thing, manipulation by lawyers of court results using vulnerable people is another but there has to be a line where you cross it.  As I have not done any of the things claimed, ever,  period, zilch, nada, I do not have anything to fear.  So I share what I go through, so that others particularly dads can be aware.  I am also led to understand that the only way courts fix these things is to remove or one of the parents anyway, which is I assume the ultimate goal.  So regardless of what happens I hope this nightmare ends soon.  For a lot of Dad's the BS gets to be too much and having been through the ringer so many times it is no longer even funny.  Many Dads make choices for their own sanity and of course for the children of their marriage.   The question is will the truth set you free and will the wizard of oz keep pulling the strings.

Ok Folks back again, same problem.  To bring everyone up to speed, I was alleged to have taken nude video's and pictures of my children and other unknown nefarious acts.  The result of this false allegation is interesting and a novel new development for me, since the police came with a warrant and confiscated all the phones, cameras, and electronic equipment I had, along with other bits and pieces of interest.  They searched everything went through the girlfriends stuff and those of her children, she was so profoundly effected she told me I think this is another country that we live in and not America, the land of the free and the Brave.  More like the land of the taxpayer and truly screwed citizens.  I sincerely do believe that, as this is a perennial act and expected as a tactic, the sophistication is getting more creative and the former spouse must be well instructed on how to do this for maximum effect as she has gotten to use the proxy method.  This is where you use a mandatory reporter, preferably a teacher, nurse or doctor to make the report for you. I suspect it was a federal policy by design if you think about it.  After all no matter what you think about the situation you have to report it, even if you think it is wrong.    Instead of directly telling the children what to say, you get a patsy who by law is required to report.  SO be warned about this interesting development for me, and I am sure there are a few creative lawyers out there who need a new technique that helps their clients in a more decisive manner when they perform their parendectomies.

So I have been through the mill for the last month or so complying with the investigation and in addition took a polygraph test to theoretically clear me.  But alas time has passed by and I missed visitation with the children, which of course is the objective and a national legal sport.

So for easter weekend I go for my 128 mile ride to the pick up point and mommy, grandma, new hubby and children are there.  The kids come over and tell me they want to spend easter with Grandma, I say it is daddies time with the children and they can spend easter with daddy.  They say but we are going with Grandma for easter and we ain't going, the daughter starts whimpering and states she would like to spend time with grandma.  Grandma lives about 1/2 a mile away from the kids by the way.  My son asks what I have in the bag in the car, and whether one of my friends will be at home, I say I don't know, but I would like the children to get in the car and we will be off.  They promptly return to grandma and mommy who walk them back to their vehicle and the kids promptly jump in and they shout 'we ain't coming'. So we have the call to the police for assistance, they come take my details I tell them what happened, he goes talks to mommy and the kids.  After a few minutes he comes back with a strange and seemingly aggressive demeanor and tells me the kids are afraid to go with me and that he will not assist me any further and I should take the matter back to family court and he will testify.  I ask him if I go over to the vehicle and ask the kids to come will he help, he says it is not his job.  I ask him what exactly was said, he stated it will be in his report, but I can call him to court to testify.   So as a farewell for teh day to the kids I shout that I love them, whether or not they heard I don't know as the vehicle was closed up, but I tried.     

So apart from my learning that this is a national epedemic legal sport for attorney chump change, the CPS and Police complaining that they have wasted well over half a million dollars of good taxpayers money because they have to even though they know what is going on follow through on each and every allegation.  Brings me to the question of why is it that these courts are essentially driving fathers out of childrens lives quietly or under the radar, with what appears to be a complementary anti daddy/male media campaign based on sex and bad males, and worse males are apparently expendable.  I am looking further into this and trying to get as much statistical data as I can, so if you have any message me back channel but I know we will never get it from the legal system who it seems to be living large and well on this national epedemic in secret.

As for me I am open to suggestions, and privately or publicly trying to still find a solution that works other than being forced out of the kids lives by legal attrition.  I cannot believe how many people are touched by this evil legal empire and what it indirectly costs task payers to support nor the known outcomes for children of divorce or separation.  Not withstanding the amount of money I have wasted believing that a court of equity could even understand anything other than money and generating human fodder for it's enlargement

What is next. Folks, idea's suggestions good or bad are welcome.

I think your problem is a matter of perspective.

Do NOT mistake the responsibility of a mandatory reporter with the callous antics of family court, vindictive exes, and CPS and law enforcement who are only acting on what they are told and know.

I am a volunteer EMT and a mandatory reporter.  It is federal and the penalties mandatory reporters face if they fail to make a report can be catastrophic:
Sanctions for Failure to Report Child Abuse Iowa Code section 232.75 provides for civil and criminal sanctions for failing to report child abuse. Any person, official, agency, or institution required by this chapter to report a suspected case of child abuse who knowingly and willfully fails to do so is guilty of a simple misdemeanor. Any person, official, agency, or institution required by Iowa Code section 232.69 to report a suspected case of child abuse who knowingly fails to do so, or who knowingly interferes with the making of such a report in violation of section 232.70, is civilly liable for the damages proximately caused by such failure or interference.

I have my certification hanging over my head if I fail to report a suspicion.  I have absolutely NO control over how or what information is either given to me or what I see....all I know is that if I fail to report it and it is discovered that I knew and failed to report it, I face civil and criminal penalties, along with permanent loss of my EMS certification.  To me and to many others in EMS, it is a calling, not a career, and we do not differentiate between who's doing what to whom.....our only focus is on the welfare of the child and what we see and hear, period.

As I said, it's a matter of perspective.... 

Thank you for your reply, I grant your argument is valid but I have a concern as I am I led to understand the fallout form divorce court extends far and wide on state resources.  I believe one estimate from Illinois (2006) stated that for what the courts generate in federal returns and reimbursements for the state coffers of $ 160 million, the actually costs to the taxpayers over a year are approximately $112 billion dollars in offset or derived public burdens and that does not include the costs of dealing with the children of divorce or their outlooks into the future.   

For example in the inner city area's and from friends who work in and support of EMT services on the medical side, they often scratch their heads in disbelief at some of the outcomes or policies from the service provider they work for, we or I are not discounting the merit of what the service and it's goals are, it is quite literally a service that is one that has a proud and egalitarian tradition and some of the most extremely dedicated people whose goal in life is to help others in more ways than they are able and are I believe dedicated to the service of saving lives no matter what the circumstance.

Setting the perspective element aside, I do beg the question, how many of your calls are for  domestic violence alleged or otherwise, child safety issues.  Calls that are ( I do not in anyway infer to minimize the emergency of any call that has to be attended) shall we say questionable in your experience or is that a secret ?

As for my previous comments you will note, that I am PO'd because CPS and the police claim they have wasted x amount on what they know to be untrue.  Maybe their frustration is directed at me, but when I think of all that money wasted and some other needed services claiming poverty because they have no resources of course as a taxpayer I am going to be PO'd, but again I am not the only case and as a multiplier of my situation I question the veracity of these courts, if they can as they claim blindly not know what they are doing, and certainly many attorneys are master manipulators of bilking their clients in case and billing hours.  Which makes me wonder if they can do this to zealously protect their clients interests, how much more zealously are they going to protect the private taxpayers interests.

Had I known what I know now I would have cashed in everything and given it to some third world cause that I felt was good, as the charities here seem to have a lot of overheads.

However I apologize if you felt offended but I have concerns for more things that are of immediate concern to me, and of course would appreciate any input that serves towards that argument.  We are getting so gender polarized these days, no wonder many of my male friends are leaving the education, medical and social services in droves, or those unable are just sticking it out until they can collect their pensions.  If the young we are raising today cannot as estimated produce enough taxes or resources what is to become of the previous generations ability to sustain their incomes, that is also a concern.  Regardless thank you for pointing out the error of my ways.

I live in a rural area and, though we have the highest call record of all volunteer EMS services in this county, our volume of potential domestic violence/child abuse calls are minimal.  But that's NOT the point.  The thing is that any call that could potentially prompt filing a report of possible abuse is never paged out that way. 

Only once we are on the scene and observe and treat do we have any reason to make a report.  For example, we could be paged to a call regarding a lost child in a timber or corn field.  Doesn't sound like abuse, does it?  But during the course of the call, we find out that the child ran away...why?  The parent(s)' story doesn't seem to add up, either.  Enough suspicion and we are bound by law to file a report.  I could give you many more examples, but I think you get the point.  I cannot give you details of a specific call, as that would be a breach of confidentiality.  We are trained to not only note the obvious but debrief calls to discuss what everyone observed and if there are any questions or concerns.

As for outcomes, that is not our responsibility, tho it can be frustrating when it doesn't go the way WE think it should.  The problem with that is we never get the full story on what was going on, only the small part that we were involved in.  We have no idea what's going on behind the scenes or on the legal front, nor do we need to unless we are called to court to testify regarding the actual call and what we observed or treated.

Like I said before, EMS and any other entity who is required by law to be a mandatory reporter does NOT have an agenda nor are we allowed to have one.  We are forced to be an objective 3rd party reporter and to do otherwise would put our integrity in question.  As for my state EMS system, you'd have your certification under a microscope if the powers-that-be thought otherwise.

All I'm saying is that there are some people within the system that are actually doing their jobs the way they are supposed to.  Once it's out of our hands, we have absolutely NO control over it and we have no agenda regarding it.

Thanks for your reply, as the purpose of me posting was to determine a solution to visitation issues and we are now discussing the merits and rules of EMT services it is pointless. 

I therefore respectfully withdraw from the thread, thanks for all those who posted regarding visitations.  Good luck all.

Maybe I worded it too strongly, but my point (again) is that you cannot lump ALL entities involved in the complex issues of your case into one 'bad guy'.  Not everyone along the way has an agenda.  I agree, some are brain-washed into the neo-feminist line of 'mother good, father bad', especially the ones directly involved with the family court system, but the rest are just doing their jobs as best they can with what information they have.