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Main Forums => Dear Socrateaser => Topic started by: 23ncp on Oct 08, 2015, 07:57:59 PM

Title: CP Claiming child is mentally ill to avoid visitation
Post by: 23ncp on Oct 08, 2015, 07:57:59 PM
State: FL

I live in another State on the East Coast. Child is 16 yrs. old and resides in FL. Moving closer to child has not resulted in fruition due to the child living in a area with a very high cost of living and no real jobs that could support my ability to live and pay child support simultaneously.

Child has flown to see me since the age of 5 years old via agreed order signed by a judge.

Last year, right before the child's visitation, I received a call from CP indicating that child was suffering from Vertigo and unable to fly.

Later the story changed from Vertigo to alleged use of Spice (apparently not easily verifiable during drug tests).

Then the story changed to non-verifiable symptoms like having a feeling of detachment from child's body.

With the story changing all the time, I suspected that the intent was to either or both:

1) Estrange the child from me.

2) Assert mental illness so that I might end up paying child support for the child's entire adult life.

I gave the child some space since the child stopped talking to me for some time, but ultimately and since there was an agreed order I decided to purchase his plane ticket and just wait for CP to violate the order by refusing to allow visitation.

I then received an email from the CP's attorney asking that I forgo visitation until the child is no longer experiencing severe anxiety "mentally ill" which the attorney asserts that I partially somehow caused.

Knowing the CP, they will just continually ride things out constantly asserting mental illness until the child is 18 and it is too late.

I spoke with the doctor who saw the child when the alleged incident transpired, and he saw no reason that the child could not fly.

I spoke with the psychologist who saw the child when the alleged incident transpired, and she advised that Child was experiencing anxiety because CP was yelling at child.

I spoke with the psychiatrist who did not want to discuss this with me at all.

The biggest issue is that CP works under the table and gets Medicaid. I suspected that CP would ultimately find a therapist who asserts that the child is mentally ill to meet CP's unknown agenda.

I am also concerned that once again, CP will assert mental illness when the child turns 18/19 as applicable under Florida State law so that CP can get child support from me for life.

Combine this all with a judge who always sides with the CP over any issue and is consistently disrespectful with me in the courtroom, and I believe that I have cause for concern.

Any thoughts on what to do?

Thank you.

Title: Re: CP Claiming child is mentally ill to avoid visitation
Post by: tigger on Oct 09, 2015, 05:40:36 PM
This board is no longer monitored by an attorney. It is made available for research purposes.

You stated that you are in another state but didn't indicate how close to Florida. Big difference between being in Ga vs Maine. Unfortunately I agree that you have cause to be concerned though I don't know how to advise you.

Disclaimer: not an attorney. Just a parent with some experience . . . . but not to this extent.
Title: Re: CP Claiming child is mentally ill to avoid visitation
Post by: MixedBag on Oct 13, 2015, 04:09:56 PM
Yes, no attorney on the site anymore...

Personally ... is it time to "go the extra mile" since the child is 16 and on the edge of being allowed to make a decision in the eyes of the court....

Maybe fly down to see her vs. having her come to see you once.  Speak directly to the child and take her for a weekend....

And then see what's really going on -- face to face -- NOT around the CP.

You might get a different story.

And then make a decision from there.

TWO more years.....and emancipation should be right around the corner.
Title: Re: CP Claiming child is mentally ill to avoid visitation
Post by: 23ncp on Nov 29, 2015, 07:08:15 AM
Hi all. Sorry that I haven't come around to respond but I appreciate your responses.

I am trying to establish a bit of anonymity to my post, so I didn't want to get too specific about location and a few other things.

I also knew that the attorney on this site has been gone for a few years, but I know that this area has historically been reserved for very difficult to answer posts. If this is a bad area to post this, please move the post. Thanks, and sorry in advance.

Anyways, I hired an attorney and this made it to court. Again, the judge treated me with horrible disrespect. It seems the judge *might* be biased against parties who appear telephonically, but in all likelihood there are other types of bias involved.

I could not hear what the opposing parties attorney was saying and when I asked the attorney if they could speak up, the judge began screaming at me advising that since I appeared telephonically I'll take what I get! (I mean the court is the one that facilitated it and agreed with it). I'd still be willing to bet that the judge would not treat me so great in person based upon previous experiences though and who has the time and money to figure that out?

So the judge advised that I was entitled to everything in the court order, but the judge would not request a pickup order or ask that the CP "hogtie the child" and throw them in the back seat. The judge suggested that the other parent simply encourage the child to visit me. My attorney starts screaming at the judge, telling the judge that all the judge did was empower the other parent. A yelling match ensued between judge and my attorney. I personally think that it was all a big show.

So guess what? After the hearing I emailed the other parent and asked them if my child will be flying up to see me. The other parent responded by advising that they have been talking to the child and encouraging them to come.

The other parent claims to have gone to the airport with the child and then emailed me to let me know that the child experienced severe anxiety at the thought of coming to see me and that they would not force the child to fly.

Then a few moments later I received a text from my child's phone advising in short that they did not want to see me again. I have not seen my child's face in 1.5 years at this point. I have no way of knowing whether or not that my child text me.

Neither myself or my lawyer believe that CP went to the airport.

Some comments:

1) Emancipation has been mentioned, but I still have concerns about the CP arguing that my child is mentally ill to a biased judge and having to pay child support for the rest of my life on some basis that CP will need to be the child's carer. Every loss that I take just empowers the CP. Additionally, CP appears to have lots of money. Having a psychologist testify was not a problem for CP...and I hear that is expensive as heck and not typically affordable.

2) The lawyer advised that I proceed as MixedBag says after our quasi/sudo win in to Florida to meet the child. I have a new family here that depends on me. I wouldn't know how to get a hold of my child in Florida when CP refuses to answer the door as the police angrily advise me that this is a civil matter. Based upon some close experiences there, I am concerned that I'd be arrested in that locality as the CP lift's their mighty pinky. At one time, I tried to exercise visitation in that locality and asked for a police escort for which I was refused. I went by myself and the police advised me that I was trespassing and that next time I'd be arrested.



Title: Re: CP Claiming child is mentally ill to avoid visitation
Post by: ocean on Nov 29, 2015, 07:38:18 AM
How is child doing in school? Can you call the counselor at her high school and see if there have been issues there? You may be able to see her attendance online with a password and can see if she is skipping school or classes. If she is in regular classes and seems like she will graduate on time, mom will have a hard time proving she is disabled. Usually mom would have to get child under SSDI benefits for the courts to consider it.

How far by car are you from her since she doesnt want to fly, maybe go get her the day after christmas and keep her until school starts again?

I would respond to sd phone "I really miss you and want to see you, I am planning a trip up by you in the next few weeks if you do not want to fly. OR I can come get you and we can drive back to my house since flying seems to be an issue. "   She may change get tune if she has to be in the car for xx hours instead of flying.

Either way , see how she responds to your questions, screen shot the responses. Text her every few days with just little questions and see if she answers  "how was school?" how is the weather ?

Next court, go there and then ask your lawyer to ask for immediate visitation while you are in town. If judge said for her to get child to go and you have those texts from her that she is not sending her, file contempt of court, ask for reimbursement of airfare, lawyer fees, and make up time during school breaks. Takes time but if judge keeps seeing her not following orders, they may change their ways but you are paying a lawyer this whole time....2 years but really as long as daughter is living with mom you will be dealing with this.
Title: Re: CP Claiming child is mentally ill to avoid visitation
Post by: 23ncp on Nov 29, 2015, 09:38:34 AM
Thanks ocean.

Here are some responses/comments/questions etc.

Child is doing average in school. The assertion made by the child's psychologist is that the child's grades go down every time I show intent to visit.

I have a very hard time logging in and checking the child's grades because the CP constantly tells the school that I don't exist. (Not sure which medium this is done by).

It takes several days every year of substantiating my identity and fighting with the school to have access reinstated.

I spoke to the school counselor and they were very vague. I was ultimately able to determine that my child is on a 504 plan pursuant to a psychiatrist's assertion.

It won't allow me to posts links here, but a 504 plan is for severe anxiety. I doubt that is commensurate with an alleged disability that requires child support for life payments, but it is concerning that things have gotten this far. It is also concerning that the CP has infinite taxpayer resources to have the child diagnosed with whatever rotating sickness CP desires to meet this potential objective.

As far as the SSDI situation, I had similar thoughts. I've been trying to get the SSA to provide me with information concerning child's SSDI status without notifying CP lest I give them ideas. No one there seems to know what to do and I all I get are form letters back. I guess a visit to my local SS Office is in order.

I am about 16-17 hours away by car.

I like your idea of showing intent to get the child even if I don't actually follow through based upon the reasons that I described.

The idea of compelling a response (or lack thereof) is useful. Thank you.

On a side note, my texts and calls to the child are always unanswered.

Some additional notes of interest:

1) I have specifically asked CP for Skype visitation and CP ignores it. (Lawyers idea).

2) I have asked CP for child's passport number (my idea) (as opposed to copies of his passport where CP can photoshop things) and CP ignores it. This would allow me to see if child really is too sick to travel, and whether or not CP will assert to the State Department Passport Office during child's next upcoming passport renewal that CP can't find me and override the need to obtain my signature.

3) The psychiatrist refuses to tell me what the problem is and advises that they don't need to tell me due to patient doctor confidentiality....seems like this is more than likely the law in Florida. Psychiatrist advises that they don't tell the CP the issue either. However, psychiatrist then admitted that the CP sits in on the sessions (interesting that a psychiatrist has sessions, I thought that was a psychologist). Then Psychiatrist says that it is not me causing the anxiety, but couldn't tell me what was.

The only problem I see with your last thought is that judge refused to compel visitation at our last hearing. I doubt that he would do it now. I asked for reimbursement, but that wasn't granted. Just a whole lot of yelling and off topic from the judge.

I am thinking of filing a motion to disqualify with this judge on the premise of bias which is allowable under Florida law. Even if I lose, it would be helpful for reasons I don't feel comfortable posting here.

I am thinking of doing this all pro se...wouldn't be the first time or the last. No attorney could get further than me.

I really like the thoughts that I am getting here.

Thanks again!

Title: Re: CP Claiming child is mentally ill to avoid visitation
Post by: ocean on Nov 29, 2015, 10:26:46 AM
Call the school nurse and see if you can get any further with them. Tell them you want to know if she takes meds at school and a copy of the 504 plan. Then call the guidance office and talk to her counselor (school stuff) and see if you can get back on the list to log in online for grades/attendance/schedule. What modifications is she getting in school under the 504?  Then call the head of special education (director, superintendent) and tell them you are her father and your rights are protected under federal law. Give them your information and tell you want to be be available by phone for the next 504 meeting (usually in spring). They must by law invite you and provide phone access to the full meeting where you can hear what the teachers are saying and what the school wants to put in her 504 plan. A 504 is usually for medical issues that interfer through the school day (allowed to go to nurse for meds, take breaks, take walks....whatever the plan they made for her is. . If she had an IEP that would be more of a disability which they did not give her as it is not affecting her academics it seems.

We also have represented ourselves a lot through the years. Harder for you dealing with two states but maybe file again contempt and then plan on making the trip for court and asking to see her then if things do not go smoothly over the next few weeks.

Yeah, if you walkin to SS office with copy of child's birth certificate and your license and if you have child's ss# they should be able to tell you if there is a record on file. You may be able to make an online account with same info.

This is hard as child is 16. Do what you can now but really in less than 2 years there won't be a court to try to enforce. Getting a judge disqualified is next to impossible and will not fair well if you need to be back in court. Please rethink that strategy. You need this judge to close the case for child support soon. If you wind up going to her town, make appt with the therapist in person along with the school counselor. YOu get a lot more when you are in front of them. Bring proof you are father with court records stating you have access (you have access by federal law anyway).
Good luck!
Title: Re: CP Claiming child is mentally ill to avoid visitation
Post by: 23ncp on Nov 29, 2015, 12:47:51 PM
Wow ocean, the 504 plan allows a bit more time in the child's case to complete work assignments etc. I did actually get access to the child's grades once again.

When you mention that they must provide me full access to the meeting under Federal Law did you have any more specifics that I can cite? Is this per FERPA or is this something a bit more specific under the 504 plan?

I know what you mean about 2 States. It is an advantage to be away from the problems some times, but the negatives outweigh the positives in several key areas.

The disqualification thing. I sent you a pm as to why I am considering moving that way. Just a quick note.


Title: Re: CP Claiming child is mentally ill to avoid visitation
Post by: ocean on Nov 30, 2015, 01:37:03 PM
Yes, FERPA... sample letter below and add in that you want to be informed of meetings. Make sure this letter goes to the special ed office or whoever deals with 504 in her school district. Ill send you a PM about the other issue.   
Title: Re: CP Claiming child is mentally ill to avoid visitation
Post by: 23ncp on Dec 01, 2015, 09:18:59 AM
Thanks Ocean.
Title: Re: CP Claiming child is mentally ill to avoid visitation
Post by: MixedBag on Dec 01, 2015, 09:40:53 AM
I think you should also start reading up on what FL defines as a reason to continue CS for a mentally ill child beyond the age of 18.  Is "anxiety" on that list?  Find some case law -- or ask your attorney about that like IF there is case law and does your daughter seem to be heading in that direction. 

She's 16 huh?  this is a precarious age....and personally, I feel that WITHOUT the support of the CP or a really hard ass might be totally out of luck.

I still say -- go to her location....offer to pick her up for lunch ... and then go home.  If daughter refuses, go to lunch anyways, take a selfie....text it to her....and go home.  Make sure she knows you were in HER local area.  It might not do any good today, and it might NEVER, but then again it might. 

Looking back, I did some crazy ass things to go see my son (12 hour drive away) during the years and it has paid off.  Even with my former step-kids....notice I said FORMER, I still have three that call me for advice vs. their dad or mom who are both local.  My kids know I will go the extra mile -- might be on free airline miles, but I'll take the time.   Little things like that will win them back over...  Like here comes Christmas -- the texts can be "What can I get you for Christmas this year?  I'd like it to be something you want so that you are happy."  Notice it's all about HER and not about you.....teens are like that.  Then you do what your budget will allow. For a short period of time, make it about them.....until they start talking and participating, and then start turning the tide and make it about family. 

I had one friend -- who bought the Christmas present, dropped it off at the child's house and left without looking back.  THAT had impact....the child realized they wanted more, but Mom dropped off the gift and left.  Few months later, the tide started turning.  As they got older, the tide started turning. 

but there are others where the tide never comes in.....they have overbearing parents and have totally been brainwashed and hogtied.... Read Divorce Poison....
Title: Re: CP Claiming child is mentally ill to avoid visitation
Post by: 23ncp on Dec 23, 2015, 03:21:53 PM
Thanks MixedBag...I had no idea that you posted.

There are 2 problems with going down there:

1) The cops and I don't have a great history there. I have come close to being arrested a few times when I lived there because of the CP...won't get into details there, but don't want to have to hire a criminal lawyer as well. :)

2) The case has taken a potential modify child support upward angle as punishment for trying to exercise the extent that the family I live with won't be able to eat....especially when I am out of work. Again, I can't help but to defer to the false idealism that child support and visitation are different matters. I have new kids and whether or not the court "cares" about them, they need to eat too.

I have decided to shut up and not exercise the rights that I have on paper that don't exist in the real world anyways in an effort to de-escalate which might, just might work depending on the CP's motivation in all of this.

I'll give Divorce Poison a read.

Thanks again.

Title: Re: CP Claiming child is mentally ill to avoid visitation
Post by: MixedBag on Dec 23, 2015, 03:24:26 PM
Good your updated in the other section.