This is out there but desperate measures call for desperate means ----- or something like that. I was watching the movie Erin brockavich last night and there was a part that got the old gears spinning again. I have posted a few times on here but am still very new. Some of my posts insinuate that we should all get together , combine our forces, recources, and voices and try to do something more!!! For our children. There is a scene in the movie where Erin says they need to get all of the plaintffs together in court and get something done. She is not even an attorney (in fact she despises attorneys) and ends up taking down an industrial giant for all the right reasons almost singlehandedly through sheer determination. Arent our reasons important? Don't we have determination. Theres a lot of folks who are being denied their children and payng and suffering because of it. I see a lot of good effort and good folks trying to do as much as they can. But it's rarely enough. Maybe if we all got together, things could get done more effectively. What does everybody think? Am I dreamin'?
The key there,, was most of those folks lived somewhat near one another in that movie,, right?
Here,, we are all scattered all over the country. Most of the parents here do well to keep their cs paid, much less trying to put together a national movement.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again,, most ncp spend every waking hour working, paying, trying, and hurting. There simply are not the extra hours, dollars nor energy left. The courts, the evaluators, the attorneys and the ex suck it all up.
Sooner or later, it WILL happen,,, when enough people who HAVE been thru it, when enough children grow up outraged, when enough celebrities decide its PC to be outraged.
Hi peanutsdad- Nice to "meet" you. Your right about being scattered all over. But with some good planning and effort, it's gotta be worth a try. Maybe some of us could put more into it than others. But I think it could get done. As long as eveyone involved put some effort into it and would stand with everyone else when it was time to take the plan we would come up with to court. I don't know, I just want to have the rights as a parent that I should automatically be entitled to as a citizen of the greatest free country in the world-- know what I mean? What was I supposed to tell my daughter 3 years ago when she was 4 and said "why don't you just tell the judge you want to see us more and that you can't?" I told her it's not that simple, but she does'nt understand that. She is all hope & trust & love. Or was. Children have ideas about judges and policemen and firemen---- and fathers. I'll make the time and the effort because the purity and innocene in my daughters eyes told me too. And I am her dad!!! Or at least I'll try like you know what, thanks for the feedback------tjraid18
What you may not realize,,
This website is a major step in what you envision.
10 years ago,, NO such resource as this existed.
10 years before that, no man would dream of bucking the system and going for custody except in the most dire circumstances,, and even then,, most times did not win.
Go back another 10-20 years and no men went for custody nor did society as a whole expect them to. You were expected to lose everyhing in your divorce, never see our kids, skip out on your child support and put up with your ex cussing you out at every turn.
So,, changes ARE occuring. Societal mores and gender expectations/bias' dont change overnight. That is a generational project.
agreed. Thanx. It's good to get input, it helps.
TJ, It all sounds like a great idea and all, but i will have to agree with peanut. Slowly but surely, things for father's will get easier. The only thing that the father's need to do, is to NEVER give up and keep everything, so that if in a worst case, some one loses their rights and their child(ern) come looking ofr them later on in life, you have all this proof that you did not just give up on your kids and you did not just walk out on them. It is very sad that the court system is the way it is toward the fathers' that actually try to have something to do with their kids. Keep up the good work.
*~Mandi~*
Gracias
>I was watching the movie
>Erin brockavich last night and there was a part that got the
>old gears spinning again.
Yes, well, ummm, don't forget that that was a movie, not real life. Based on fact perhaps, but that's not the same thing.
>but am still very new. Some of my posts insinuate that we
>should all get together , combine our forces, recources, and
>voices and try to do something more!!!
Many people have suggested this, but few are willing to do anything. Are you? It's easy to make suggestions on an internet message board, much harder to actually do something. My suggestion is not to wait for us or anyone else to endorse your idea and turn it into reality, but to start doing something yourself. If it's good, people will follow. The guy that started this place didn't wait for people to tell him it was a good idea, he just went ahead and did it. If he waited to get everyone's buy-in first, you'd be browsing another site right now.
>is a scene in the movie where Erin says they need to get all
>of the plaintffs together in court and get something done. She
>is not even an attorney (in fact she despises attorneys) and
>ends up taking down an industrial giant for all the right
>reasons almost singlehandedly through sheer determination.
Remember, that was a movie, produced on a Hollywood soundstage. Thisngs tend to go swimmingly in movies, because everyone likes a happy ending.
>Maybe if we all got together, things could get
>done more effectively. What does everybody think? Am I
>dreamin'?
The father's/parent's movement has tried to organize for years, especially the father's movement) and nothing ever comes of it. There are reasons for this that are too involved to go into here, but they exist and they're formidable.
Don't hold your breath; my advice is to go out and start something yourself if you want to see it happen. Unless *you* are willing to take responsibility, work like a dog, and get it off the ground, don't expect it to happen. Everyone will tell you it's a good idea, even me, but that doesn't get it any closer to happening.
Again, unless *you* are personally willing to take responsibility and do whatever it takes it to happen, don't expect it to spring into being. It's a lot easier to make suggestions than to implement them.
Hi Brent, Thanks for the feedback. Youre right on both counts. I just don't know how to start something like this by myself and am feeling around for support. And you know how inspiring Julie Roberts can be.
Your point is very well taken and I couldn't agree more. Numbers speak loudly!!! I have been working with my son on a custody and visitation for his infant son and I am appalled at how the legal system works. They say "What is in the best interst of the child." I have questions about this....My son has had numerous false allegations placed against him 3 restraining orders which were denied. I say we need to ban together and get them to start enforcing the laws that are in place. It states in the Florida Staues that if you are placing false allegations against someone for domestic violence you can be prosecuted. I am wondering why this woman hasen't been prosecuted yet and why she is still able to make cause problems for my son. We all need to stick together and come up with some solutions. My sons, son is 6 month old and because of this womans frivulous accusations he still has not got to see him yet. It is pyschological damaging to keep a child away from his father espeicially a father who wants to be a part of his sons life, he is very responsible, paying child support before it was ever court ordered, has taken child care classes, and has a great reputation.
With warmest regards,
Sandy
[email protected] Please feel free to email my son if you have any suggestions.
I would like to thank everyone for taking the time and effort to share thoughts on this post. I had a friend who felt he had no choice other than to give up on his children because of reasons we can all undrestand. He said to me once, "If it's not their kids, they don't care." My friend wakes up every morning and deals with a pain that will never go away. Only time has helped. But here and on other sites like this all over the country, I see people who do care. People who want desperately to be able to do something, but just don't know what it is. I've heard of efforts of all kinds that are heroic . And I've heard of efforts that end up in suicide, or worse. It's obvious there is a problem with the legal system; and huge numbers of children and their estranged parents are falling through not cracks-- but gaping holes!!!! I found another "fathers rights group" and expressed my idea their. The co-ordinator timely informed me that this type of idea has been tried and failed. So I'm going to look into the cases he's referring to and see what I can dig up. Any other feedback to this post is welcome. Theres got to be a way!!!!! Thank you, tjraid18
Because the laws vary so much by state, it seems like the place to start would be to gather together within states to work on getting legislative changes.
Once people start making progress, other groups will definitely be able to benefit from the groundwork laid by others.
that is already happening,, in Ohio, ther is a very strong voice for change, making impact there, Georgia, the attempts are going on, in Texas,, same thing.
Right now, its isolated, but its growing. NCP's, (usually fathers, but a lot of moms I deal with also), are fighting back. They ARE starting to make change happen.
Used to be,, nowhere did you find CP's held accountable for contempt of visitation,, some cases here, its caused a change in custody,, other cases, the judges are coming down harder.
In the strict fathers rights arena, more legislature is being discussed/and or voted on. More fathers aRE winning custody today than 10 years ago.
Women started protesting for suffrage in the late 1800's. Yet in 1950,, a woman really didnt have credit,, her husband did, and he was still held accountable for her actions as tho she were a child. Blacks were "freed" in 1865, yet fought into 1970's to eliminate biased laws, attitudes and customs.
If you look for immediate gratification on the fathers rights stage, you'll make yourself crazy unless you take a historians view.
Right on! thank you for the input. I agree that significant changes will come primarily through legislation, which does vary in "philosophy" for whatever reasons. Example: Oregon, where I'm at, seems to accept the freedoms of homosexuals to a grater extent than I would have ever imagined. This is a state founded on the timber and farming industry. So now there are counties here that are pushing hard for legalizing same sex marriage. Local social issues and views have a lot to do with legislative policy, and law making. we need to pressure politicians and judges, and lawyers, on a state and national level by combining resources, talents, and all of our efforts (whatever those may be) together. We should take one case where there are obvious gross injustices and biases. All pitch in to help that one person retain a high powered lawyer. Raise awareness in the media. Showcase the damage being done to that child and non- custodial parent. Like the commercial for the christian childrens fund-- the one you either can't bear to watch or end up sponsoring a child. Take this case through court. Humiliate lawmakers, state child agencies, etc. As the case is winding up, and the world is talking about it, the rest of us would step up the pressure on our cases. Or we could pick say, 10 more cases, and begin pushing them through. If our financial resources were thin, maybe other people who are not even involved with this issue would help out. It's an issue that is important to this country. there is progress being made that I've noticed too. Just in the last 5 to 6 years I've been going through it. Thats all the more reason to take action now and not just wait. My son took his first steps at my apt. when I first seperated. They were baby steps. When he graduates high school I want to be there to watch him take those young man steps. I want other non- custodial parents to be able to do the same. Lets not take baby steps . PLEASE!! tjraid18
I just wanted to add to my above post. The reason I am suggesting this idea is because I can't deal with my situation by myself. I don't have the knowledge, the money, family support, or the patience, to be able to be involved in my kids lives to the extent that I should be able to. I have seen a lot of other guys in the same boat. i figured that if I could'nt do something about my particular circumstances, then maybe there could be a way to get other people together to make some sort of joint effort. My $500.00 retainer and $1000.00 in fees did what it did. I'm still not a part of my kids lives. If a bunch of guys got together and put their resources in the pot, then maybe we could really do something. I could afford $10.00 or $20.00. And I would be willing to do as much of the footwork as anyone else-- especially if I thought it might actually do some good. I know things have been tried by better people than me. And I know things are changing. But it's just not enough. In history things have taken time to change. But were in a much faster paced environment now. And these computers might actually come in handy for other things besides gossip, slander, and crime.
Also, for those of you who read the above post. I believe that my son took his first steps to me because he wanted to make his father proud. Mom is "the momma", but dads are important to build self esteem and confidence. Seeing my son take his first steps was one of the single best things I've ever experienced in this world! And he didn't take a few steps and crawl the rest of the way to me, He stood up and walked all the way!!!!!!
Your last post brought tears to my eyes. I am with you on this all the way. I don't work at the moment and I am spending all my free time working on this. I have seen my son so depressed over not being able to see his son it breaks my heart. I am going to keep studying and if I have to take this all the way to Washington. Maybe we could start a class action suit against the legal system for being prejudice against men. Just in my paper work alone I could come up with a good case. I also believe there are a lot of Constitutional rights being violated here. I have access to one of the finest Law Libraries in the US, and I will be utuilizing it. I would love to get the media in on this, but I want to be prepared first. Anything that you think can help me please let me know.
Funny. I have a law library very close to where I am living. I;ve gone in to look around and asked how to reference the information I might want to look at. The trouble is, I've gone to the library before a long time ago and found a few good sources to reseach, but I quickly realized that it's like looking for a needle in a haystack. I might be able to figure out what I was doing but it could take me a lifetime or two. It's frustrating.
Also, I have lots of free time at the moment and don't mind using it to see what can be done. Good point about naming the legal system in a suit. I've had thoughts along those lines myself. My divorce attorney was going to name the Oregon department of justice/child support division and my ex wife in a suit for fraud that my ex-wife did, but I ran out of money.(And I let my deprssion get the better of me) He had the papers drawn up and everything. I was very interested and excited and would like to have seen it through for more than one reason. If something like that can be done, it makes you wonder what else can. We would have to be very specific about who to go after and how. I have read a lot of other sentiments along those same lines in this web-site and others. Are there any fathers rights groups that meet near where your at? If your son didn't go I'm sure they would consider you very welcome!!! Preperation for something like this is key. It would make it a lot easier if other people would get together to help out. Have a good one, Tim.
Brief Child Custody History:
In feudal England, custody was incidental to guardianship of the father's lands, and it eventually came to be regarded as a trusteeship with responsibilities toward the child.
In 1839 that the Chancellor was given statutory power to award the custody of infants under seven years to the mother rather than to the father.
Sir William Blackstone stated in his "Commentaries on the Law of England" that, under the law, the father had a natural right to his children and that the mother was "entitled to no power (over her children), but only to reverence and respect."
Until the 19th century, American law reflected English canon law and the feudal order, and since the father completely controlled the finances, assets and property, custody ordinarily went where the money was, except in rare cases where a father had abused, abandoned or neglected the child.
It was not until 1817, when the "Rule in Shelley's case" was adopted, which interjected the issue of parental fitness into custody cases as a major issue and also eliminated the former automatic preference for the father as custodial parent.
By the 1920's, the maternal preference for custody in English and American law, regardless of the child's age, became as firmly fixed as the earlier paternal preference, and was encoded in statute in all 48 states.
In 1979, the first joint custody statute was enacted in California, followed by Kansas, and Oregon. By 1991, more than 40 states had shared parenting statutes in which joint custody was either an option or preference, and most other states had recognized the concept of joint custody in case law.
Changes happen... they happen slowly. Today there are actions being taken in several states for Equal Parenting Time.
In order to make child custody equitable for the children, this is the only solution. Equal Parenting Time REGARDLESS of the parents sex is in the best interest of our children who are suffering at having one parent reduced to the roll of a visitor in their life. This isn't a father's issue or a mother's issue, this is a parenting issue. As parents together we can make changes.
You want to make changes? Gather the same history I have just shown you, gather the statistics on single parent households, gather the statistics on the difference between a single parent household and those families which excercise EQUAL access after divorce. Arm yourself with the information that shows what you are asking for is truly best for society as a whole.
Learn who your Senators are, who your congressmen are, your local legislatures, who is the attorney in charge of your states bar association? That is a place to start.
Good Luck in your endeavor.
TM
Awww TM, I said the same thing,, you just gussied it up some.. :)
Ever get the feeling we are educated beyond the bounds of decency? LOL
**Because the laws vary so much by state, it seems like the place to start would be to gather together within states to work on getting legislative changes.**
Actually because there is such a variance among states the place to begin would be to implement a federal law that would include presumptive EQUAL PARENTING TIME in cases where parents are no longer raising children together in the same household.
Until laws change at the highest level in our country, parents will continue to be relegated to the roll of a visitor in their children's lives when relationships fail.
TM
Thanks so much for your feedback and great info. . And for the good luck wish. I do need to do more research and not just post here. The information you gave is awesome. I have'nt fully considered it all yet , as I just now briefly looked at it. But I definitely will. One Quick point. The point I am trying to make is that we get together on this. Combine talents and resources. Why should I look all this stuff up, when you already have? And Peanutsdad. And lots of way smarter people than me? Work together. I'm willing to go with the shared parenting thing if you all say it's the best shot. I personally believe what needs to happen is to enforce laws against non-compliance, manipulation and false testimony. Extremely enforce them. Consider making them serious felonies. But if alll of you who have done the homework say joint custody then --- lets all get together and work on joint custody. I respect tremendously the people who have spent hours and hours working on this issue. I'm just trying to find a way for a lot of us to combine forces and get something done. Thanx again --tj
TM.
I'm not sure I communicated my point well. You told me about all the things that have happened with child custody policy all the way back to England. Obviously you've done alot of hard work and are very well educated and dedicated. We agree that things are not equal. Every post on here shows things are not. We agree that this is not really about male roles and female roles, it's about simply being parents. Simple. Good word. Why is there so much difficulty in getting people to come together and work as a team on this? I'm asking you objectively. I think it is a good idea. It's been tried, but does'nt go far. I've been told that the reasons are complex. I agree. .I have some ideas about why, but I'm sort of stubborn. And curious. I would like your opinion. Individual efforts are mking progress, but too slowly. Am I being selfish for wanting to be able to do something now? Or unreasonable? If I look up all this information and arm myself with knowledge and take action for my individual case, it may or may not help me with my kids. It may or may not help anyone else with theirs. If I worked together with 10,000 other people it probably would make a difference. I plan on attending D.A.D.'S MEETINGS because I'm lucky, I live right by where they meet. I plan on getting involved as much as possible. But I feel strongly that we should try to work together more. Something I want to say. The motto "UNITED WE STAND" has another side. It's "UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL." Rarely do we, in our pride, think of being divided and falling. There is a balance to this motto. There is power in it. We should all consider both sides. Not just the one that suits our needs.
Thank you once again. I hope I have'nt offended you and that you'll share any further thoughts about this.
tjraid18
I agree 100% percent with the theory that there is power in numbers. It seems that we would need someone who was willing to lead the group that was very familiar with federal laws and the process to go about changing them. I am very uneducated in this area, as I have barely finished grasping and becoming familiar with my state laws and how they apply to family law. Then, to actually use them in a courtroom is a whole other animal (read:nightmare). I, too, am frustrated with the laws governing NCP's and the children that suffer as a result. I would be fully committed to doing anything possible to help and be a part of a group about fighting for the rights of kids and their entitlement to having both of their parents fully involved in their lives.
Sounds like were on the same page. I have very little knowledge of the legal machine as well. Two is better than one. There are some other people I know that might be willing to at least discuss this as an option. I am going to go to a D.A.D.S. group meeting soon. Maybe I'll Be able to learn more there. Thanks for the backup on this. Someone did E-MAIL me back with two court cases to look up. And I'm going to look up some of the things troubledmom talked about. The precedents for custody. We need to come up with a way to get some people who know what the heck they're doing to get involved.
tj
Some links here at Sparc to help you in your research:
http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/hague.htm
http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/cstest.htm
http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/jointlaws.htm
http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/uccja.htm
http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/pkpa.htm
http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/ferpa.htm
Should give you place to start.
TM
COUNT ME IN!
"Children learn what they live"
I am with you guys on this. I will be soon exposing my sons case to the media, locally. I am devoting all my time to this matter, I feel so strongly that we can accomplish miracles if we stand together. I will keep you updated as to what I am learning. I am fighting for my son who has been stopped from seeing his son, and who's reputation has been severly damaged with this famalies false accusations. I will tell you if you have read my post Please Help that one of the problems lies with his attorney. I also have a friend who is a paralegal who is guiding me on what I need to do. I will keep you posted. It would help tremendously anyone that wants to join us to let us know what state you are in, so we can compare some of the laws.
Warmest Wishes,
Sandy
Remember something very important We have only lost the battle not the war and keep telling yourself that....it helps.
It's encouraging to hear positive feedback. Theres lots of work to do so I'm going to try to clear my mind a little and kind of prioritize the things on my plate. I'll let you guys know if I think of anything that might help.
tjraid18
When you set the goals and priorities,, remember to set them realistically,,, allow at LEAST 5 yrs with HEAVY politikin to get any type of bill drafted. You might want to get in touch with Pace from Ohio to get a better understanding of what it all involves and takes.
Thanks peanut. Iv'e got Paces E-mail because he sent me something. Last night I spent time writing down the names #'s and adresses of all Oregons representatives, legislators, senators, and the gov. . Senator Frank Morse is not a legislator but his office is very close to where i live. I plan on writing some letters soon. But I want to have an idea of how to best approach these people before I do. I really liked a lot of the things kitty c. wrote in her letter she posted here about the Iowa bill. There is a Dads Against Discrimination meeting every second Tuesday one block from where I'm at. I plan on asking a lot of questions. i've gone to two of the meetings before and met J. edwards. I'm curios to see how his custody situation is going. I'm getting tired just thinking about all the work that would have to be done. Too much practice procrastinating.
tj
hello
Ive been thinking of this since before i was married. in site of all of the men that are being treated unfairly by the court system of each state. I am semi disabled and am tired of this non-sense. I say we should put together an alliance, nationwide to stand very strong in numbers. I understand that many have stated that they would have a hard time in organizing and finacing such a project.
We will never know unless we try!
I am now alerting all of the men who are tired of this debauchery that this nation calls a fair family court system. We need an allaince right now!
I am stepping up to the plate and elect to devote some of my time to putting this thing together.
If you are driven to help make a difference, if you can relate to all of the men that have that sinking, lost, and beaten feeling while walking away from the courtroom, that pit of bile churning away at your insides as you clench in anger or cry when you drive by the park that you and your child once played in as I do, please post a reply as I will contact all of those interested by Email.
And please let me know if you can volunteer to help put together what can and may well be the light weve been searching for.
Chris
Yes, I would definitely help in any way possible.
My husband lost custody of his girls because he didn't want to put them through a custody battle when his ex walked out on him. His ex does the absolute minimum for the girls but does not want him to have them due to child support, I'm sure. His daughter reported some inappropriate behavior towards her from her mother's new husband and now she is paying dearly.
We have spent thousands of dollars going up against a woman who will stop at nothing, she lies, falsly accuses and uses the children as pawns. We always seem to come out on the losing end (along with the girls) because we are not willing to hurt the children in this "tug-o-war".
My husband's ex moved them 1600 miles away in 2001 and enrolled them in a school under her maiden name before we even realized they were gone. It took us a year to get them moved back. When she did move back, she move 50 mile away and we've provided transportation ever since. Her move has made it nearly impossible to participate in school activities, after-school sports and have lunch with them at school like we used to.
It just seems like other than paying child support, the NCP's relationship with the children is disposable. I understand that the courts depend on the two bio parents to put the children's needs first but there needs to be a plan B when the parents are not doing this. In order to hire a guardian ad litem or parent evaluator, the parents need to have access to a large sum of money; kids whose parents can't afford to fight get shafted. It is so sad . . . . . .
Well said, ready4change. Sorry to hear you guys have had to go through so much crap. I like the way you put the plan B idea. It's so true!!! Hopefully we are in the right place at the right time and changes may be not too far away. Best wishes ---
tj
You can count me in also. I am appalled at the way our legal system works and I agree it affects the ones without lots of finacial resources the most. What gets me is the length of time it takes to get them to do anything and yet they will tell you what's in the best interest of the child. I only work part time so I am free to help in any way I can. I have written a letter to Erin Brockervitch and I plan on following up with a phone call. Hopefully she can shed some light on how to get started on this. I have racked my brains and I am doing some research to see where the Government is failing. It cannot be state wide issues it must be national since we all reside in different states.
Sandy
Lets concentrate on getting fathers rights groups and informed N.C.P.'s who are involved to work together. Antonin and peanutsdad are right. too many groups --- not enough people getting involved. Lets contact the fathers rights groups we know of, and the individuals who ARE fighting so hard and encourage them to work together. we could start a list of fathers rights groups right here on sparc. once we get as many as we can listed with adresses --- We can as a group or individually express our desire for them to work together. Let them know that there are many, many of us who are willing to do something. We just need their help and direction and expertise to be able to do so.
Another thing that will be powerful is finding a way to get the message out to those father's who may not be aware of sites like this one or even where to begin. I can only imagine how many men or NCP's in Seattle alone that have just about given up and need someone to lead the way. Once we can contact some groups and get a plan of action, we should be able to draw up a master flyer, contact media and find any way to get the word out. There are alot of groups out there, we just might be the driving force that they need to cross over to the land of success :D
You are a mind reader!!! Thats going on alot around here. I've got some ideas about getting flyers out as well. We do have to stay organized and N-Sync throughout. It's not like other groups hav'ent stated out just like what were talking about though. And so far been unsuccessfull. We need to take one step at a time and do it right. The thing that may be different and helpfull, and a good starting place, is to contact the"big boys" in the fathers rights movement or non-custodial movement and try to persuade them to work together. Getting more people on sparc to back that up by putting out flyers might be a great idea. Is that what you meant, Ready4change? It's a great idea and I appreciate your positive attitude and encouragement. We post a list here
of groups that are making good headway, and who their co-ordinators are. And of individuals who are making good progress. And of important people like the media or certain fathers rights politicians or public figures who have influence. It could'nt be to inclusive or we would have too much information to handle. Then as the list materialized maybe we could get more of an idea what to do with it. The idea would be to gather the list ---- and then to contact these people and express our interest in having them work together and finding a way for all of us to help them. For us all to get involved together.
tj
I'm not a father but I am the wife of a father. Do you guys realize how many women like me are out there? If the father's and their wives all get together it would be massive! It is not just the fathers who go through this s*&t but their whole family.
Definitely there are a lot of you and I'm really glad to see it. I feel that a lot of times for whatever reasons, the female persuasion can be very effective in dealing with these situations. For the most part guys just don't want to deal with this stuff. Fathers who are being denied there parental rights are lucky to have the girlfriends and wives helping -----
For sure!!! The obstacle is the working together part. It doesn't ever seem to work out anywhere near to the extent that it needs to. We need to figure out why --- and make it work. Like you said, there are so many of us out there. Together we could get it done.
~ From small acorns grow mighty Oaks ~
tj
Your idea is very good...I think the place to start would be to form support groups as in AA...then expand from there....not sure if there already are any kind of these types of support groups already. If anyone in the Las Vegas area has info on such a group please let me know, or any input on starting such a group let me know....lets get the ball rolling in our favor once....thankyou
In the MOVIE, the people that were fighting were of BOTH sexes, and were fighting for a CIVIL settlement. Worst case, if they lost, they were in the same position that they were in BEFORE. We, on the other hand, have to go before these SAME judges, again and again. And don't think that if we "fight" their decisions, they will retaliate. and that can mean higher child support, less visitation, stricter rulings and possible problems. A far cry from "losing" one civil suit.
Yes, Erin Brockavich also had 3 kids (single mom) and didn't receive a dime of cs from her 2 deadbeat exes who left her and their kids.
Come on. Why do people critisize, pick apart , analyze or just point out the faults of what others have to say? I'm talking about the idea of getting all the fathers or even stepmoms together to be a real voice against the injustice thats happening in the court systems with custody, visitation and child support. I did'nt literally mean do exactly what " Erin Brocavich " did in the movie. Just the idea of getting everybody together. Obviously that will not happen. Obviously it has been thought of and tried to the frustration of other fathers who had hopes of actually being able to know and love their children ; and for other fathers in the same situation to be able to know and love theirs. "United we stand, divided we fall." There seems to me to be a kind of simple wisdom that has a lot of truth in those words.