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Main Forums => Visitation Issues => Topic started by: tulip on Aug 03, 2004, 03:07:51 PM

Title: Daughter had overnight visit w/her dad.
Post by: tulip on Aug 03, 2004, 03:07:51 PM
My dh warned me about this. When my ex called and wanted to take dd for a 3-night visit after not even calling for three months (and not for three months before that time.) He said won't she feel uncomfortable after not seeing him for so long? Well, the first time he called we got into a HUGE argument. I told him a lot of things I'd been wanting to for a very long time. He got to see her from Sat morning til Sat night. When he dropped her off, he said "I'll see you in two weeks." to her, didn't say anything to me about it.

 Two weeks later, he asked to take her Sat night until Sunday night, because he had to work Saturday. I let her go Sunday after church until Sunday night. I went outside to talk to him when he came to pick her up about how he needs to talk to me about his intentions, not her (she's 6.) He got really mad and told me I should let him be father to her, that this few hrs every two weeks is bs. He does not even call to talk to her ever! I don't think he's trying to be father. Anyway, before his temper tantrum, he told me pick her up from his house that evening, so I could see where he lives. (I told him I'm not going to let her spend the night anywhere if I don't know where she's going and who lives there.) So I did. He lives with his new gf and her two daughters in a very small brand new townhome.

Two weeks later, he calls Friday night and asks if he can see dd this weekend. He wanted to pick her up after work Sat and keep her til Sunday. DH thought it was too soon, but dd wanted to spend the night with him the first time. She has missed her dad. He told me he couldn't bring her to church, because he was going to spend the night at his mom's house with dd, but told me in the future when he has her on Sunday mornings he will take her to our church so she doesn't have to miss it. Sunday, when she came home, I found out they did not spend the night at his mom's house. I told dd she looked tired, and she said she did not get any sleep. Then she gave me a big hug and started crying and said "I really missed you a lot last night." I told her I didn't think she should spend there for a while and she agreed.
Title: RE: Daughter had overnight visit w/her dad.
Post by: Stepmom0418 on Aug 03, 2004, 03:21:42 PM
Ok I am going to be honest with you about the way this made me feel reading your post. I am not a person who wants to cause problems or arguements but I feel I need to express what I am thinking.

First let me ask, what happened during this over night visit? Did dd say what was so wrong? Did dd say what she didnt like?


I have a ss and my dh was refused any kind of a relationship with him till last year. BM and her mom refused him to take ss anywhere and we always visited under their supervision. During that time SS called dh by his first name and rarely called him dad. Of course this was hurtful. We now have eow and ect in a co. ss has changed so much and he enjoys his visits although his BM still insists that he is scared of Dh and doesnt like comming here.

My question to you is: Is it possiable that dd is telling you what she thinks you want to hear?

I dont know alot about your situation but I have some serious questions about what you said above b/c as far as I am concerned any child should have the right to have unlimited contact with both parents unless their is abuse or drugs involved. (and even then there is ways around not allowing contact such as supervised visits)

Please do correct me if I am wrong but this is how I am feeling about the above.
Title: I agree with you *NM*
Post by: SLYarnell on Aug 03, 2004, 07:38:52 PM
...
Title: Me too
Post by: joni on Aug 03, 2004, 08:15:06 PM

You sound like a very caring, cautious and conscientious mom.    I agree with stepmom's prior post.  I think your DD might be picking up on your concerns and anxieties.  If you and your current husband were to try to show a united front, she would draw strength from your support, not fear from your apprehensions.

This is her dad and sounds like he's really trying to make a concerted effort.  One of two things will happen, he'll either step up to the plate this time and be a constant in her life or...he'll drop off again.  Give him enough to hang himself.....but it doesn't mean you have to help shove him off the edge.

Give him a chance to be with her father and the chance for him to be her father.  This won't diminsh the role her stepfather has in her life.  Isn't this what you want...for your child to have her bio father in her life?  Be happy and supportive.

Title: RE: Daughter had overnight visit w/her dad.
Post by: SadStepMom on Aug 04, 2004, 12:51:27 PM
I have a couple thoughts on this also.  First of all I have a four year old with my DH.  Due to work schedules, our son spends some days with DH, some with me, and a couple with a babysitter.  When son is home with me, he sometimes cries that he doesn't want to go to the babysitter, when he is at the babysitter, sometimes he cries because he doesn't want to go home.  And when he has DH days, he sometimes cries because he wants to have more DH days.  (Occasionally we get luck and have days that DH and I are both off)  

So I think it is perfectly normal for her to cry because she missed you.  Now if she tells you something happened at her dad's that gives you concern, that is another thing.

" I told her I didn't think she should spend there for a while and she agreed."

I don't think this is something you should talk to your daughter about, I think this is something to talk to your ex about.  You two need to make a decision and then inform your daughter.  She shouldn't shouldn't have the choice or have to make the choice, that puts her in a spot.

I hope you give your ex all the chances in the world to have a relationship with your daughter.  She will benefit greatly!
Title: Ok, let me defend myself now.
Post by: tulip on Aug 04, 2004, 01:36:34 PM
I don't think it's her decision either, whether to spend the night there or not. I just told her that I was concerned about her having an overnight visit because I thought it would be hard for her. What happened is that she couldn't sleep because she was uncomfortable. That's enough for me. So she needs to spend some more time with these people and get more used to the place before she tries to sleep there again.

I realize I may sound overbearing and controlling. I have never, ever tried to keep my ex from having a relationship with our daughter. He has walked in and out of our lives since she was born. I have told him since day one that he could see her whenever he wanted and that it made me really sad that he chose not to take advantage of the opportunity. He has never tried to find out where she goes to school, what other activities she likes, what kind of books or music she likes. He doesn't know her at all, and that's by his choice.

I'll admit that I would like for this man to stay out my life and leave us alone, but I love my daughter too much to tell her I feel that way. If he really wants to be a part of her life, I'm not going to stop him. I just think he should take it slow. He thinks he can disappear for months and years at a time and then come back and act like no time has gone by for her. I also believe that it's only a matter of time until his current relationship fails, and then he will drop out of dd's life again too. This is a pattern for him.

Thanks for your advice. I really am trying to do the right thing, and that's why I posted here about it. I don't want to let my anger interfere with my daughter's best interests.
Title: ((tulip))
Post by: forthekids24 on Aug 04, 2004, 02:52:02 PM
From what I have read in you posts you are a VERY caring mother.

I do however need to point out that you are being a bit hypocritical.

You said that you told your ex that he needs to talk to you about his intentions, not her.   Right?  How can you justify making a statement to a 6 year old that you don't think she should spend the night there?  Isn't that kinda the same thing?

Please, please, please don't take this as a slam, but I think you need to step back and be supportive.  I know it is difficult, but it is her Dad.  If you are stressed out and make negative comments about her time there, she will pick up on it.  Especially at this age.

I have learned that as much as I dislike what happens at the other home, I have no control over it.  I have to let the other parent, be a parent.

Vent to us about how worried you are and how you don't like it, but not to her.

Hang in there, it does get easier, but you still worry just as much :)
FTK
Title: I can understand.....
Post by: msme on Aug 04, 2004, 06:56:03 PM
how you are feeling. When a child says they are not comfortable, we want to fix that. You chose the easy fix, by saying that maybe she shouldn't go there anymore.

I personally think that you could have responded better. When she said she didn't sleep because she was uncomfortable, your response could have been, "Wow, I know how hard it can be to fall asleep in a strange place. How about next time, we pack your pillow & blanket & teddy so it will feel more homey. I'm sure daddy will understand."

It felt like you were saying the problem was going to daddys, not just sleeping in a strange bed & room. Make sure you jot off a short polite note to him saying that next visit, DD would like to bring her sleep things cuz she had trouble falling asleep in a strange bed. Adding that you are sure this just a temporary thing till she gets used to things.

I understand how difficult it is to deal with a person who has screwed up so many times in the past, but it is still better to take the high road.
At this point, you can still do this. Sit your DD down & say that you had been thinking about her feeling uncomfortable & you have figured out why. Then go into what I mentioned above.

Keep her trips to dads, a positive thing. If he messes up, she will know it was him, not you. The older she gets, the more she will understand & what you want her to understand most is that you love her enough to realize how important it was for her to form her own relationship & opinions with dad, & she will.

Good luck & God bless.

You never get a second chance to make a first impression!
Title: RE: Ok, let me defend myself now.
Post by: Stepmom0418 on Aug 05, 2004, 05:08:04 AM
I was not trying to attack you or make you feel as if you need to defend yourself. My purpose was only to shed some light on the way I felt when reading your post. A child needs both parents and a child deserves to have a parent that will support a relationship with the other parent.

I just think that this should be handled in a diffrent manner. You made the comment to the child that maybe she should not go back and stay at daddys for a while. If she was upset at a daycare providers house would you have suggested the same after one day with the childcare provider? I doubt it that childcare would stop daycare because your daughter could not sleep there or she was uncomfortable after only one day. I think you should give the father that much as well. He deserves to be a part of the childs life and the child deserves to have her father in her life.

Children that are supported do adapt to change very well and this could be a positive change for your daughter.

What the other poster said about sending her with her teddy and her pillow and blanket, that would show your daughter that you are supportive with her having a relationship with her father.
Title: RE: ((tulip))
Post by: tulip on Aug 05, 2004, 08:14:56 PM
Yeah, I guess that is kind of hypocritical. The reason I said that to her, though, is I really wanted to know how she felt about it. I will ask her again before her next visit.

I didn't say she shouldn't go over there anymore. My suggestion was that she come home Saturday night to sleep, go to church Sunday, and then go back to her dad's for Sunday afternoon and evening. She really liked that idea. (He only lives about 15 minutes away.)

Her problem wasn't just sleeping in a strange bed. There is no bed there for her to sleep in. I really just think she needs to get more comfortable in that house before she tries to sleep there again.

Also, I would be very open to her dad visiting her more days than every other Saturday and Sunday. This should be fairly easy for him since he lives so close, but he doesn't even call to say hi to her between visits.
Title: Okay, the folks are TRYING to be nice...I won't...
Post by: gr8Dad on Aug 06, 2004, 02:22:04 AM
Your excuses and reasoning behind what you are saying are CRAP.  Sorry, it's a FACT.  What will you do if you ever have to move?  Will the child sleep at the OLD house for a few months?  What if you go on vacation?  Better not stay in a hotel, THAT would be a strange place.  God FORBID you ever visit a relative out of town, cause you will have to be in a STRANGE place.

Of COURSE she felt a little weird staying at Dad's, it is a NEW place.  But HOW can she "get used" to staying there if you don't allow her to STAY there until she gets used to it?  That is called a CATCH 22, and it is crap, plain and simple.
Title: Easy there....frankly, I agree with you.
Post by: Brent on Aug 06, 2004, 07:07:23 AM
Easy, Hoss. :)

>Your excuses and reasoning behind what you are saying are
>CRAP.  Sorry, it's a FACT.  What will you do if you ever have
>to move?  Will the child sleep at the OLD house for a few
>months?  What if you go on vacation?  Better not stay in a
>hotel, THAT would be a strange place.  God FORBID you ever
>visit a relative out of town, cause you will have to be in a
>STRANGE place.

I have to agree with this....the reasoning isn't valid. Things change, and Gr8dad may be a bit more errr 'spirited' in the way he says it, but I agree with idea of what he's said.
Title: I was thinking the same thing.............
Post by: Kitty C. on Aug 06, 2004, 11:36:08 AM
Every new situation takes time to get used to.  Even kids going to a new daycare.  Because of the sporadic way the father has exercized his visitation, it just makes it more prominent.  having her take along things from home that make her feel more comfortable should be a must, but to deny her any nights with her father seems counterproductive and will only draw out the process that much longer.

When DH and I first moved in together, SS had to sleep on the couch whenever DH had him for his weekends.  There was absolutely nothing we could do about it, until we moved, had an extra bedroom, and the money for his own bed.  And this took about 6 months.  Yes, he was uncomfortable and I'm sure he didn't sleep as well as he would have at his mother's, but the whole process was a transition period for us all and we made it thru just fine.

It's instances like this that built self-confidence and character in kids.  I truly believe that the reason why DS is so adaptable to new things (even being severely ADHD, which is rare) is because I never shied away from change with him.  It's a trait that will hold him in good stead throughout his entire life.  Where else do children learn adaptability and self-confidence but from their life experiences?  JMO, but to deny that experience would seem detrimental to a child in regards to their overall growth.
Title: I guess I'm just going to be one of those mothers that you all hate.
Post by: tulip on Aug 06, 2004, 12:44:17 PM
Actually, we are getting ready to go on vacation this month. My daughter is very excited about it. And she has had an absolute blast all the times we have gone camping together, not had any trouble going to sleep at night. If she is uncomfortable sleeping in a strange place while we're on vacation, she will be sorrounded by the people who comfort her every day of her life. Not a bunch of people she doesn't know. And she has slept over at friend's houses and not come home crying about it.

I really can't believe that it is so shocking to all of you that a six year old child might need some time to get to know this new family. I have seen lots of people on this board suggesting to other parents that when a parent who hasn't been around for a long time suddenly shows up, they should take things slow and work up to longer to give the child a chance to get to know them. But that's crap if I suggest it huh?

I don't know if anything horrible happened the night she stayed over there, but I know she was crying. I don't believe for one second the suggestion that she might have been crying because she thought I wanted her to. She wouldn't try to worry me more about something she knew I was already concerned about if she was happy about spending the night there.

I also know that her father is an alcoholic who recently lied to me about his sobriety. He has been to treatment at least two times because of his 3 DWI's. He told me he was sober after the last time he went to treatment, and a month ago I saw him sitting at the bar drinking at a restaurant I was having dinner at. I also know that before our daughter came into our lives he used to throw me around the house when he was drunk, and that he and his last live-in girlfriend used to keep our daughter awake in the middle of the night fighting when she stayed at there house.

I get the message. I should force my six-year old daughter to sleep on a couch or floor where she is so uncomfortable that she can't get to sleep to be fair to her father who hasn't even had time to call her for two years. I should do make her do this because it will make her a stronger person, and because when he drops off the face of the face of the earth she will know it was him and not me.
Title: You just dont get it...
Post by: SLYarnell on Aug 06, 2004, 01:10:50 PM
You have been told nicely.. you have been told strongly.  You believe you are right and unless you get validation you dont want to hear it.

You are as much of a problem to your daughter, if not more, than her father is... you dont want to hear it so this will fall on deaf ears but thats the way it is.

The best of luck to your daughter, she is gonna need it!
Title: RE: You just dont get it...
Post by: Stepmom0418 on Aug 06, 2004, 02:47:37 PM
I agree with you!! She doesnt get it at all and I am finished talking b/c she isnt listening! She thinks she is right and no one is going to change her mind. That is obvious! One day she will see that we were all right and this will bite her in the a$$! Her daughter will blame her and then that will be her consiquense for her actions!

I wish the best for her daughter and I hope that the day will come that she can have a relationship  with her father that she deserves to have!!
Title: RE: I guess I'm just going to be one of those mothers that you all hate.
Post by: msme on Aug 07, 2004, 01:45:17 PM
>She wouldn't try to worry
>me more about something she knew I was already concerned about<

The above quote from you, sums it all up. How would a 6 yr. old know you were worried about her going there, unless you told her. No parent has a right to voice their personal concerns about such things to small children, or any child for that matter.

Children should be sheltered from all the bull$$$$ that surrounds divorce, custody, & visitation. All she needs to hear from you is that you love her & her daddy loves her & you want her to enjoy her visit with him.

I just had to drop my 3 grandchildren off to an evil witch, who I know for a fact will mentally tourment them for 3 hours, & then when I pick them up, I will have to deal with their pain. I gave each one a hug & a kiss, told the that I loved them & told them to have fun.

Do you think that was fun? Do you think that is what I wanted to do? Hell no!!! But it is the right thing to & so we will keeping doing it until such a time as the courts realize that she should not be in their lives. Grow up, & quit playing the "She's mine" game. She is not yours, she belongs to both of you & you need to make her feel that & love being loved by both of you.



You never get a second chance to make a first impression!
Title: RE: Ok, let me defend myself now.
Post by: Rambler on Aug 09, 2004, 12:34:24 AM
"She couldn't sleep because she was uncomfortable.  That's enough for me."

This is really too bad, because you are giving your daughter the wrong message..

"I have never tried to keep my ex from having a relationship with our daughter."

That is exactly what you are doing right now, and you are justifying it.

"I'll admit that I would like this man to stay out of my life and leave us alone."

That shows.  And it shows to your daughter too.  My ex is very much like you are, and she has worked hard over the three years to destroy my relationship with my children.  Yes, I am different than your ex in that I call every single bleeding day, but only get to speak to them once a week, maybe if I am lucky.  I hear the same things (oh it is for the kids, I am sticking up for them, etc. etc. etc.) but all she is doing is growing a sense of displacement for hte kids.  Very very sad.
Title: Children learn and feel from thier parents
Post by: Forthelittleones on Aug 10, 2004, 05:18:47 AM
It is a well known fact that children learn from their parents.

If you are uncomfortable, then she will sense that and try to appease you.  She lives with you ALL the time.  She has to keep you HAPPY.  Therefore she will do/say whatever she thinks you want to hear because she wants you to be happy.

Think what I am saying is crap?  I have about 10K in THERAPY bills and psyc bills to back this whole "theory" up.  My SD was 3 when Mom insisted she was not comfortable, mom asked the child "do you want to see that man" or him or whatever substitue you want to add.

Just keep doing what you are doing and eventually, one day you and her will grow up.  You may have the first 18 years but you wont have that much more OR maybe you can be the weekend parents if Dad decides he wants to pursue custody.

The child needs to feel love and warmth about going to Dads not your dread, anger, etc.  

The only person who loses here is the child.
Title: I GET IT NOW.
Post by: tulip on Aug 10, 2004, 11:04:52 AM
I felt emotionally beat up and really, really, depressed after reading some of the posts, and stayed far away from my computer for a few days. But I did think about this a lot. I thought about how my father was a lot like my ex when I was growing up. But my mom never told me or my brother what a jerk she thought he was, she just was always there for us encouraged whatever relationship he made time for. I've always had a lot of respect for her for that. When I was about 12, my dad and his then-girlfriend decided they wanted custody of me. This was the beginning of a really bad fight that I can still feel the affects of at 31.

I didn't realize until now that I was starting to do the same things I hated about my parents as a teen.

My family has been through hell the past two years, and I have always been able to find compassionate advice here. On this issue, I feel like I got totally ripped apart, but I guess that's what I needed.

Even though my ex has been a really sorry excuse for a father, I don't believe that he has ever said anything negative to my daughter about me or my husband. I am very angry with him for the way he has neglected her all her life, but I understand now that I have to find a way to keep that anger far away from her and let her love her dad.
Title: RE: I GET IT NOW.
Post by: Stepmom0418 on Aug 10, 2004, 11:19:26 AM
YEEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

That is the point that i was trying to get you to see! Your daughter will thank you for supporting her in her relationship with her father in the years to come!! keep your anger and hurt away from your daughter and let her form her own little opinion. Good Luck to you and to your daughter and I never ment to make you feel as if i was attacking you or ripping you apart i just wanted you to see the mistake you were making before it was too late to be fixed!
Title: From experience
Post by: katz on Aug 10, 2004, 11:39:40 AM
I see you claim to understand it now, but I thought I would give you an experience from the other perspective anyway.

My sd was 1 1/2 years old when her mom left her with sd father. There was a little visitation for a few months, then nothing. No calls, no reachable phone number for my dh to reach his ex, no visitation at all. That went on for over 3 years.

One day out of the blue, my husband received a call from his ex asking to see their daughter again(my sd was 5 years old). Remember none of this was drawn up, and legally my dh could of extinguished sd's mom's rights for abandonment. My dh did not elect to do that, and in fact dh and I reminded sd that she had another mom who just couldnt be with sd right now. We had a picture of her mom, and would encourage sd to acknowledge that she did have other family (her mom and her 1/2 sister that lived with her mom) either with pictures or conversation. Dh never wanted to close the door on a relationship, should her biological mom express a desire to have a relationship.

That first weekend with her mom, was rough for sd to adjust too, but in my dh's opinion it would be even rougher for a daughter to adjust to not having her biological mom and 1/2 sister in her life. My sd is 8 now, and has been seeing her mom every other weekend for 3 years. My sd has adjusted quite well, and loves her whole family. I will admit though, selfishly, the new blend was/is very hard to get used to. Certain dynamics I never would of anticipated, more issues then we were used to ect. All in all I think my dh did exactly what is right for his daughter, even though it isnt the easiest (for us) of choices. Sometimes doing the right thing, isnt the easiest thing to do.
Title: Yup, I agree totally... Tulip wants someone to tell her it is okay
Post by: Sherry1 on Aug 10, 2004, 01:31:17 PM
to limit visitation with dad.. when she didn't get validation, she started a typical pattern of saying he is an alcoholic.. I am so tired of the typical "planet mommy" syndrome.
Title: Congratulations.....
Post by: msme on Aug 11, 2004, 05:59:17 AM
Believe it or not, no one wanted to beat you up. But, I can see how you would feel that way. I am very glad that you saw the light. It is a long rough road that tooooo many of us have to travel but with love & understanding, we will make it.

By the way, on a sort of positive note, The other day my grandaughter said, "My mom is such a liar. When is she gonna get it that I don't believe her any more?"

That was a rough one to answer. I just told her to forgive her & pray that she sees what she has to do. Then I changed the subject.

Good luck & God bless you.
You never get a second chance to make a first impression!