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Main Forums => Visitation Issues => Topic started by: Chooch0566 on Apr 04, 2006, 11:35:35 AM

Title: Vacation Question - Need Opinions ASAP !!
Post by: Chooch0566 on Apr 04, 2006, 11:35:35 AM
I am the non-custodial father of a 4 year old girl.  I have a visitation order in place that states that I am allowed to take my daughter on vacation as long as I provide 30 days notice to her custodial parent (trifling baby's momma).  My current wife and I are planning a weeks long trip to the U.S. Virgin Islands.
Baby's Momma is attempting to block this vacation saying that it's "too far and dangerous".  I've provided her with the itinerary and lodging information.

Is there anything she can do to block this vacation ?
Is there anything I can do to still go ?

It seems that she always thows up roadblocks just out of spite because I'm married.

HELP !!!
Title: RE: Vacation Question - Need Opinions ASAP !!
Post by: b1798 on Apr 04, 2006, 12:07:47 PM
How much vacation time were you awarded and what is your current agreement?
Title: She can not hand over the child
Post by: Ref on Apr 04, 2006, 12:08:00 PM
She can mess up your vacation by not handing the child over. Then you will have to sue her for denial of visitation. It's such a pain.

Do you have proof that she intends on denying you visitation( in writing or tape recorded)?

Do both of you still have attornies? If you do have you attorney send hers a letter stating that you wish to exercise your visitation and that BM is threatening to deny. That might just work.

Good Luck
Title: RE: She can not hand over the child
Post by: wysiwyg on Apr 04, 2006, 12:31:00 PM
Our court order states that I choose my summer vacation with my child, CP interprets this to be that SHE dictates what it should be if she does NOT agree.  As our attorney's past and present have told her, there is nothing in the order that states she can change alter or deny this time.  It is up to the NCP to change vacation if they so decide, but that decision is up to the NCP.

That being said, the previous poster is correct, the CP can decide to not allow you to take your child on vacation, but you might consider sending a letter to her via certified mail, that you have given her ample notice, there is (if there is) no provision in the courts orders that allow her to deny this time, etc etc etc and then tell her that you are prepared to excalate the matter further if she is in disagreement with the court order.  

IF she continues - send the info to your attorney, you always have the option of filing an emergency order prior to the vacation if you feel you must...........

Not legal adivce by any means just My opinion.
Title: RE: She can not hand over the child
Post by: Chooch0566 on Apr 04, 2006, 12:39:11 PM
The visitation order states the only thing that is required is a 30 day notice and list of itinerary and lodging information.

CP ALWAYS trys to put a wrench in things that she doesn't agree with and I think that in this instance I will probably have to go to court to get an emergency injunction.

I've abidied by the 30 day notification rule.

Just makes me nervous AND upset that just because she "says so" she can nix the 5000 dollar vacation that I've so diligently planned for my family and I to enjoy.

I wonde rif in fact she holds back my child from going, could I take her to small claims court to recoup the costs that I've already dished out.
Title: RE: She can not hand over the child
Post by: wysiwyg on Apr 04, 2006, 12:52:14 PM
if so you might file contempt and ask for reimbursement of the fees.  I think if I were you I would speak to your attorney, as you have done your part according to the court order and in fact gave her all the info in ample time and see if your attorney can get something initiated, your attorney can get a feel as to how it is going to go down and advise you if you need to get an emergency order for the trip.  

Title: RE: Vacation Question - Need Opinions ASAP !!
Post by: MixedBag on Apr 04, 2006, 09:26:24 PM
They're right -- EX/CP can just plain not send the child to you.

So -- what do you do?

You can't tell a brick wall to listen to you IF the brick wall wants to cause you trouble.  They're gonna figure out one way or another to get their job done.

So -- that being said -- IF CP doesn't send child and you've complied with the order, you have no choice but to file a motion for contempt.  Along with that motion, I'd file and ask for reimbursement of all expenses incurred -- as a result of missing that time.  

Title: If you have written proof of denial - file contempt NOW - voice of experience here
Post by: notnew on Apr 05, 2006, 11:28:13 AM
I had very similar situation a few years ago. I sent vacation dates I intended to take by stipulated date in our agreement. She wrote back and told me that I could not have it. Then went on to tell me when I could have vacation and that she was not giving up her weekends with the child. The CP does not have designated visitation time with the child. Sometimes they seem to misunderstand that it seems (tongue in cheek - they know exactly what they are doing).

I filed contempt based on this and the ruling was in my favor. You have to get your filing in plenty of time to have a hearing.

If she denies your visitation and you waste you vacation $$ - I'd ask her to reimuburse the cost of the child for the vacation and the filing fees. You cannot be reimbursed for representing yourself in court.

You do not need an attorney for this process. Check out the pro-se office in your court house and you will find everything you need there.

Good Luck!
Title: I respectfully disagree with something you said
Post by: MixedBag on Apr 05, 2006, 04:59:34 PM
You said:  "The CP does not have designated visitation time with the child. Sometimes they seem to misunderstand that it seems (tongue in cheek"

Both parents have "rights" to spend time with the child per the divorce decree -- actually the divorce decree spells out when the CHILD has the right to spend time with each parent.

We've been cautioned about filing before the event happens...but I understand your position and that you won BEFORE it happened.

Title: You are right but for NCP it can be a slap
Post by: notnew on Apr 10, 2006, 06:47:50 AM

I understand what you are saying. However, when you get every other weekend, shared holidays, two weeks per summer and not one extra minute than the court order states, AND the ex makes attempts to interfere with the court ordered time, things start to feel a little different.

Also, I had to file for emergency hearing in the beginning of all of this 6 years ago becuase my ex hid child from me for several months. So, my time is court ordered,  hers isn't. She has custody and IMHO doesn't need "designated" time to spend with our child other than holidays, she has our child a majority of the time already and if the child isn't scheduled to be with me, then naturally would be with her anyway.

My two weeks can be continious or not. So, I elect to begin one week the Sunday evening at the conclusion of my regular weekend and return child the following Sunday. This gives me 9 full days with child two times in the summer. It is the ONLY time I get to spend continious time with the child at all. What ex tried to do was to include my regularly scheduled weekends in the two weeks, giving me 7 days each week. The two weeks is meant to be IN addition to the already scheduled weekends.  That is how it is written in the order and that is how the court saw it too.

About filing in advance. As I said, if he has a letter from the other parent informing him that he won't be able to have child as planned, then I don't see why they couldn't file in advance since they have proof that the other parent intends to violate the order. It worked for me, but I am sure there are a lot of situations where it may not work. However, if they don't have solid proof, then the best option may be to file for clarifcation of the order and hope they get a hearing before the vacation. It sounds to me like their order is too vague and needs to be spelled out more clearly. Specific details about these types of things always makes it so much easier to know who is supposed to do what.
Title: RE: She can not hand over the child
Post by: wendl on Apr 10, 2006, 06:38:28 PM
What I probably would do it file a motion granting vacation. That way the courts say its ok to go on your trip and then if mom screws up you have recorse. but not sure I would consult an atty.

**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**
Title: Hence my name, Mixed Bag
Post by: MixedBag on Apr 13, 2006, 05:53:16 PM
I am (or rather was) a CP.

I am also a NCP and a step-NCP.

DH's case is at the NV Supreme Court level under appeal.

So.....I get how it feels as an NCP.  Right now I even have a letter from my EX#2 that says he's going to deny two days from this spring break.  I agreed with our son to add them on to the summer.....just to keep a long story short.

EX#2 did the same thing over I basically will make up 4 days this summer and he's gonna do everything he can to deny those days.  

He says he'll do as our son wants (which isn't legally right), but when it comes to following through -- we shall see.

And that's when I'll take him back to court.  It's a simple as that.
Title: RE: Hence my name, Mixed Bag
Post by: Gram on Apr 13, 2006, 08:46:04 PM
And why are you taking a baby to a beach resort??
Title: RE: Hence my name, Mixed Bag
Post by: Stepmom0418 on Apr 13, 2006, 09:21:40 PM
I dont understand why this question would matter given the fact that this is the posters time with the child!! Why cant a person take a baby to a beach resort? I am sure that if the CP wanted to take the baby to a beach resort that would be ok.
Title: Troll?????
Post by: msme on Apr 17, 2006, 07:57:16 AM
The child is 4 years old. That is hardly a baby. That is a preschooler. I took my grandson on a 3 week trip to Mexico & at 13, he still talks about it.

Oh, that's right, it's because it is her dad. If her mom wanted to take her there, I feel pretty sure that you would find it a great learning experience.

You never get a second chance to make a first impression!
Title: RE: Troll?????
Post by: Chooch0566 on Apr 17, 2006, 08:36:35 AM
It's not a beach resort .. .my wife is from St. Thomas and we are going there for a week .. what does it matter how old my child is ... if the shoe was on the other foot, CP would have no problem taking her for a weeks vacation .. she's giving trouble because it's everyone will be going, new wife, new child and my daughter ...
Title: RE: Troll?????
Post by: debid13065 on Apr 19, 2006, 06:00:02 AM
And you are correct on that!  She will stop the child from going, just be prepare yourself and your family mentally for that.  Sounds just like my BF's X.  CONTROL, CONTROL, CONTROL!!!!  
Title: Be prepared.....
Post by: msme on Apr 19, 2006, 04:13:25 PM
If you have followed all the guidlines of your visitation order, then take everything with you to the pickup. Take a certified copy of your custody order, tcopies of the letter, the return receipt, everything. When you get there, if she refuses to give you the child, call the sheriff. The police will not do anything but in most states, the sheriff seems to have more power. Hopefully, the sheriff will convince her to give you the child. If not, you will have a dandy witness for court when you charge her with contempt & ask for reimbursement.

Good luck & God bless
You never get a second chance to make a first impression!
Title: RE: Be prepared.....
Post by: verakh on Apr 24, 2006, 04:42:13 PM
I agree about calling the police.  We recently had issues with BM not wanting us to take SD to Mexico.  Or on a cruise, or to Vegas.  To many to count. There is nothing in the court order that says SD can't go anywhere with her dad as long as he has given 30 days notice.  Our attorney advised us to call PD if mom denied vacation visitation.   It's called custodial interference.  While the PD may not do anything you will have witnesses and a police report.  Ask for vacation to start the day before you are scheduled to leave.  It may give you some time to do something if she interferes.  You may have to go on vacation without her but I would definatley hit her with a contempt charge when you get back.  As was said before, prepare yourselves for disappointment.
  Our whole family went to Mexico and St. Thomas and I think my 4 year old nephew had a wonderful time.  

Also, you may have to have BM's permission to get a passport.   We had to get that court ordered.
Title: RE: Vacation Question - Need Opinions ASAP !! The Baby
Post by: Dadxl5 on Apr 28, 2006, 03:35:14 PM
I'm also a NCP.  My son is now 12.  My ex interferes with visitation (and everything she possibly can, it seems) too.  What I've found over the last 12 years in dealing with her is pretty simple.

What does the baby want?  Really, what does mine need, first.  Then, what does he want?  I know we have lives we want or need to live.  But the problem I've run into is that I had child with this person (being nice here), my child didn't have the child.  All he really wants, if you ask him most of the time, will be US.

If your daughter could talk, would she say, "I'd like to go with Daddy and his new wife and my new step-sister?"  Or would she be more likely to say "I want Mommy and Daddy to smile at each other more." ?

The really stifling part of this whole thing (NCParenting) is that my son doesn't care about anything except that Mommy is happy when I go with Daddy and Daddy is happy when I go with Mommy.  And there is no way around it.  And I'm not sure anything else is even remotely as important to him.  

I can understand her discomfort with the trip on several levels.  Also, she's probably jealous that you've put it all back together and it looks better to your daughter (sort of thing).  What I've been able to do with my son (I made a conscious decision to postpone dating and new Primary relationships until this is all more stable or until he's older.  It's saved me SO much headache) is design weekend trips with him that get us back to nature, such as rockhounding weekends, gem shows, camping, etc.  That way we travel, but his (very unstable) mother doesn't feel so challenged by the emotional impact of foreign travel, etc.  And it has been something that (aside from making her feel inferior (what's new?)) she has been able to really support, usually.

Maybe do this trip without her (without really telling her) and ask your ex if you can reschedule the week visit during a time you can plan a local trip that your ex can find more palatable.  Then plan a vacation that really gives you and your daughter high-quality daddy/daughter time together.  

As painful as this all has been for me, for my son, the tension our struggling has created has been unimaginably excruciating.  Mitigating that for him is my priority.  At least till he's stronger and older.  Till then, if I'm the only one who eats it, then so be it.  He'll see it one day.