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Main Forums => Visitation Issues => Topic started by: Aggiedad on May 10, 2006, 06:09:17 PM

Title: Help me---I am going to mediation and am torn!
Post by: Aggiedad on May 10, 2006, 06:09:17 PM
I want to start out by saying that I have custody of my 7 year old daughter and have had it since 2003 from a Texas court.  She lives at my residence with me, my wife and kids.  I share joint custody with her maternal grandmother. The grandmother has EOW and holidy visitation and is in charge of supervising the relationship that my daughter has with her mother.  The mother has various felonies and can no be left alone with children unsupervised.  The courts allowed the GP's to supervise the relationship with the understanding that mom was not to be living there.  As you can already tell, mom is living there.  I am taking the grandmother back to court and the judge has sent us to mediation with a current TRO in place.  I know this will not work because we have been there and done this before.  

I am seeking full custody for the protection of my daughter.  While she has been visiting with her grandmother, it has been brought to my attnetion through school personel and child protective services that my daughter is being sexually abused by her cousin at their residence, being told by her grandmother not to tell her "secrets" or she will never see her mother again, and the gmother allowing the child to be left alone with her mother unsupervised.  The child is under the age of ten and Texas Law states that there is nothing that they can do legally to this child.  CPS just offers to have a saftey plan where the kids can not be left alone unsupervised and then strongly urge me to take the matter to court and have the order changed to no overnight stays and supervision for all partied involved.  Granmother has emotionally abused this child stated by her forensic psychologist, therapist, teachers, and others who have been in contact with the child.  We have all these people coming to help us and testify for us.  I am torn about what to ask for.  I know in my heart that these people should never be allowed bakci nto her life unsupervised, but at the same time I do not want this change to negatively affect my daughter by her felling guilty for telling what has happenend to her and now everything has to change.  

I want to have some opinions on: do you think the GP's can do damage to this child if they were allowed to take the child for 4-6 hours two days a month unsupervised for visition with brief time also allowed for holidays?  We are definately only allowing time with mom unsupervised by an ouside source but what do we do with grandmother and not look unreasonable with the judge or effect my daughter and make her fill like she is being punished for coming forward and telling the truth.  I am so confused ,angry, and upset.  Angry that this is happening to my daughter, angry that the GP and mother can not just do what the court order says, and angry that they have manipulated the situation with my daughter to make her eventually fill like she did something wrong.  Please help!  

Sorry if I have mistyped words or even spelt them wrong, I am so mad right now I could spit nails, if it was possible!  

Desperate AggieDad
Title: RE: Help me---I am going to mediation and am torn!
Post by: ocean on May 10, 2006, 07:12:59 PM
What does her therapist suggest? I would tend to follow their lead. If grandma had all the info and did nothing about it then she is just as guilty in my opinion and should also be supervised. Good luck!
Title: RE: Help me---I am going to mediation and am torn!
Post by: Aggiedad on May 10, 2006, 08:09:45 PM
Therpist is still kinda taking everything in.  She has ordererd a psychological evaluation done on the child.  The problem is, is that we will have to go to mediation before we can have time to have this done.  Everyone off the records say grandma is guilty and should not see the child at all, but then they say well but she is the child's grandmother and their is a bond established.  Our laywer has asked us to come uo with a plan tha twecan live with to take to mediation nad that is what I am trying to do.  Any suggestions on what you would do?  
Title: Suggestions
Post by: MixedBag on May 11, 2006, 06:36:49 AM
First I would inform the mediator in a caucus session (that means YOU and the mediator alone) about the "family secret" the child is being asked to keep.  

By telling her in caucus, you're laying it out on the table, AND the mediator is bound by confidentiality ethics to not share this fact with Grandma.

Don't know about your state, BUT if there is domestic violence involved you may not HAVE to mediate by law.

Your baby will be safer this way.

Then let the mediator know that you are willing to press full court as a result of this subject.

About the time, I think that a good middle position is to allow the time HOWEVER, don't allow any of Mom's family members to supervise the time.

Find some alternative supervisors -- like does your Department of Human Resources offer supervised sessions? (Ours has a room set aside for this).

Or does United Way or some other non-profit organization offer supervised sessions?

Or can you "hire" a babysitter for these sessions of your choice and then they pay the babysitter by reimbursing you?

Think outside the box.....and these alternatives don't cut off time with the Mom and the child -- BUT they will keep her safe.
Title: Don't get me started on Grandmas
Post by: 4honor on May 11, 2006, 08:46:33 AM
I too have a 7 year old who was raped by his older brother (age 15 now).

The grandparents refused to "accept" that SS did such a horrible thing until they heard it from his lips in court as he pled guilty. Still, they are more concerned with SS than with DS1 and DS2 (the 7 yo) who were SS's victims. I have cut ties with Gma (my MIL) as I cannot trust her. My husband takes the kids to his parents, but they are supervised by him the whole time and they do not spend the night any more.

DS1 and DS1 no longer see SS.  That should be your first request: A no contact order for cousin.

If the cousin lives with G'ma, then the restriction on cousin seeing DD is non-negotiable. G'ma also will need to be supervised at this point. Do not back down. The supervisor is not doing her job with BM and the child was hurt while in her care... now g'ma is protecting the child who is doing this to YOUR child. There is something very wrong in that house.

If I were the judge on this case, I would be saying why are you waffling about this? You honestly believe the child, so you need to act accordingly.

Socrateaser has said time and time again that the one absolute defense to contempt is that you are defending against emminent harm to your child by controlling access to the child.

You need to find a reputable firm that does supervision of visitation. It will cost money for this to happen, but since it is unliekly that BM is paying support, she can pay for her time  and you will make the child available as can be arranged.

Take a hard line stance. This grandmother has affirmitively acted against the child's best interests and it is harming the child. You have grounds for a modification.

I would ask for a waiver of mediation on the grounds that there was abuse and G'ma failed to act... instead covering it up.... did not try to get the child any counseling, anything to help her... Inflexibility will be better in your case. If you do not, the judge will think you do not believe the abuse happened.
Title: RE: Don't get me started on Grandmas
Post by: Aggiedad on May 11, 2006, 11:02:58 AM
I want to thank you for giving me such GREAT advice.  I had the same thoughts as you do in my mind, but I wanted to make sure that I was letting my head make the decision and not my emotions.  I have talked with my attorney and have expressed to her about your thoughts on mediation.  Because she is new to this town, she is going to talk with her Senior advisor (who is also our attonry who happens to be handeling a major CPS case right now and ectrmemly busy) about this decision.  I think that i am going to allow mom only supervised visitation at a Supervision center in the town where the child resides and take the maternal GP's out of the picture at this point.  Mom really has done nothing wrong at this point,  Grandma has broken the court order and abused her right as an adult to intimidate my child.  Would you agree with this decision?
Title: RE: Don't get me started on Grandmas
Post by: tweety1 on May 16, 2006, 12:00:48 AM
First of all let me say that I feel your pain.  My situation wasn't exactly the same but similiar.  I hope the abuse was proven and that justice was done for your daughter.

What happened to the cousin?  

Someone should also be asking the question where did the cousin learn this from?  My guess is someone has abused this person.  Maybe GM or BM.

Did DSS do an invesitgation, if so was abuse ever substantiated?  

What is the history with BM and DD?

Have you thought about no contact?

Did you file for contempt on GM?

Did the therapist report this to DSS and the police?  If not they SHOULD and by law they HAVE too.

Did your attorney fill for an emergency hearing?

Get to know your victims rights law.  I wish I would have known back then what I know now.

If there is an investigation going all then all visits should be stopped pending the investigation.  If this hasn't been done then someone other than you should report this to DSS and the police.  Consult your attorney about you also reporting this.  When you call DSS they will question your motives and will probably figure your lashing out.

GM should be removed from supervising because she is not looking out for the best interest of your daughter; she violated the court order which resulted in your DD to be sexually abused, emotional abuse, allowed her DD to move in (another court order violation).  The other thing that REALLY concerns me is GM telling DD not to tell.  That is so typical of someone that abuses a child.  I'm not saying the GM abused your DD sexually but it is very possible that GM has abused another child in this way and out of protecting herself she wants your DD to be quiet.  They try to scare them, give them many presents, guilt them, manipulate them etc.  What the @-!! is wrong with people.  She should be in jail for failing to protect your DD while in her care and knowing that this heinous act was taking place.  I hope the police are involved with this and she rots in ****.

Since the BM moved in with GM knowing that she wasn't allowed and visted with DD unsupervised, did BM violate the court order in some way?  It sounds to me that there has been a change in circumstances which should be grounds for a change in custody.

Your attorney should be well versed with respect to child abuse and custody. That is also really important.  It's a good idea to document everything of importance that occurs with GM and BM.  When you talk to anyone in the legal system (police, DSS etc) involved document that to; always include date, time, who you spoke with, conversation etc.  Sending yourself an email is a good way of getting the date and time stamp.  This has been very helpful to me.  It may not be submitted as evidence but it helps refresh your memory which will help in your testimony.

Your daughter will forever be affected by this abuse.  In my humble opinion you have every right to want to stop all visitation.  Your DD may not understand it now but she will when she is older and she will appreciate it.  You are doing the right thing by taking her to therapy and hopefully it is continued even after this is over.

During court your main focus should be in the best interest of your daughter, as sch says.

I understand how frustrating it is to go through this.  I've been coping with a situation for 2.6 years and as you can probably tell it disgust me that people are able to hurt children and get away with it.  

I hope I didn't duplicate to many questions or ask you something that has already been said.  Please keep us posted and remember you are protecting your most valued treasure.

PM if needed

Title: my opinion
Post by: hagatha on May 16, 2006, 01:24:18 AM

If you continue to allow the grandmonster unsupervised access to your daughter, grandmonster may influence your daughter enough that her earlier statements about the molestation will be recanted. You CANNOT let this happen.

Since you Know your chikd was molested while in grandmosters care you cannot allow your daughter to continue to be in her care. It's that simple.

Knowing what you know about how your child is supervised (actually not supervised) while in the care of her grandmonster, and continuing to allow this person to provide care for your child might leave the door open enough for child protective services to remove the child from your care also.

As far as mediation with grandmonster. I would explain to the mediater, if you must go that route, she will no longer be permitted to see the child unsupervised. The mother can excersize visits at a visitation center eow and grandmonster, after being evaluated may accompany her daughter possibly monthly. However, until and unless grandmonster admits to attempting to cover up the molestation and understands fully the ramifications of her actions she will not be permitted to see or speak with your child. ANd you will be seeking a restaining order baring her from contact.

I would hope if cps is involved, they have already advised you to stop all unsupervised visits until their investigation is completed. If they have not, I would contact the caseworker and ask how you should handle the visitation schedule.  

A good theripast will help our daughter understand that grandmonster was wrong for allowing this abuse and she was right to tell you what happened at grandmonsters house.

Good luck,
The Witch

Remember . . . KARMA is a Wonderful Thing!!!!!
Title: My two cents
Post by: dsm on May 16, 2006, 08:45:43 AM
You have to keep your daughter safe.  What treatment plan is in place for her to cope with the trauma of being sexually and emotionally assaulted?   A counselor will help her to see that she is not to blame for consequences having to be laid down and her protection to be put at the forefront.  Your poor child!

I would not allow the GP 4-6 hours alone with her - even if it is in the middle of the day.  Supervised by a third party (read: NON-family) - that would be okay.   Same with mom.

Do what you have to do to keep your little girl safe.  Don't give even a second of opportunity for more harm to be done to her psyche or physical being.

Get the secret out - it needs to be dealt with appropriately.

dsm - 35; DH - 39; SD - 16; LO - 10; BB - 3
3 Cheap Entertainment cats - Sam,  Snoop & Dagger
Live, Love, and Laugh
Post by: Aggiedad on May 16, 2006, 12:54:49 PM
We have since filed a motion with the court for full cusody and supervised visitation for BM only with a TRO for all their family. The TRO is in place until we can get eveything worked out and they are allowed no contact with any one in my family (they started to harass my mom when they could no longer contact me so the judge extenended it to my family as well).  I have prayed very hard on this and kept all your advice in mind.

We have been ordered to mediation TOMORROW.  My attorney, wife and I agree, that we will not settle this time.  We are seeking full sole custody of my child, allowing BM one two hour visitation a week  at a supervision center of my choice at her expense and GM, GD, and their family are out of luck.

Now of course they are not going to  agree to this.  They said we have made the child say this by brain washing her and are trying to get full custody. But little do they know that the child has said over and over again to every adult that she has been interviewed by (DFPS, police, psychologist, teacher, counselor, principal, etc)  and talked to that all I have ever told her is to tell the truth no matter even if it hurts or someone else gets in trouble.  

I hope that eveything works out well.  With all the poeple we have on our side, I find it very hard to believe that something will not be done. but you never know.  

We have her in therapy at a local agency who also believes the abuse has occured.  My daughter is doing better in school now that she has told her secrets and we are working with her as a family to get everything better.  My wife and I are also getting help on how to help her.  She is missing her BM like crazy right now and is a little confused.  I am helping her to work through this the best that I can.  She got to get a new haircut last night (girly stuff) and she loved it.  So maybe we can provide her with stuff that will keep her mind busy until all the adults can get something worked out..

Thanks to eveyone for their great advice, support, and prayers.  They are greatly appreciated  I will post again after mediation tomorrow and let you know what happens.  Aggiedad  
Title: RE: my opinion
Post by: Aggiedad on May 16, 2006, 12:56:57 PM
See update at the bottom!  You helped out a lot.  It just takes so long to get things going sometimes.  I feel that I am doing the right thing and appreciate your help and concern!  Aggiedad
Title: Sounds like you have your ducks in a row
Post by: dsm on May 16, 2006, 01:53:37 PM
it is natural for your DD to miss her mom.  She needs to know, however, that it is for her own safety and in order to help her mom be a better mom that things have to be the way they are right now - and her therapist should be able to help with those coping mechanisms to get her through.

Keep us updated on what happens.  I'm sure your mediation will be short given that they will not agree.....stand your ground and protect this precious girl!  

dsm - 35; DH - 39; SD - 16; LO - 10; BB - 3
3 Cheap Entertainment cats - Sam,  Snoop & Dagger
Live, Love, and Laugh
Title: MEDIATION was a BUST!
Post by: Aggiedad on May 18, 2006, 07:37:11 AM
Let's just say, it did not go well.  DUH!  If we were able to agree on something I would not have to file a motion to modify.  

They did not even except to see the child supervised, they choose to basically not see her at all.  It is ridiculous. OH well, I guess I do not have to worry about seeing them for atleast a little while longer.

Title: No, mediation is done.
Post by: MixedBag on May 18, 2006, 01:04:39 PM
see it's over and now things can press forward.

Look at it positively....
Title: RE: No, mediation is done.
Post by: Aggiedad on May 18, 2006, 01:38:25 PM
No kidding!  We atleast found out their strategies and their evidence.  Their lawyer told the mediator everything and he in turn told us.  

I guess the lawyer was thinking that we had no real evidence and wanted to scare us with what they supposedly had.  When the mediator found out what we had, he about fell out of his seat.  And we did not even disclose the "real evidence".  Just what we wanted them to know we had so we could throw them off.  

I hope and pray it turns out ok.  The worst that can happen at this point, is that we will continue with the same arrangement we have now.  Not god for the child...... we will appeal everything until we get what we want!  Aggiedad
Title: Sounds like things went okay. Good news. nm
Post by: dsm on May 18, 2006, 04:17:28 PM


dsm - 35; DH - 39; SD - 16; LO - 10; BB - 3
3 Cheap Entertainment cats - Sam,  Snoop & Dagger
Live, Love, and Laugh
Title: RE: No, mediation is done.
Post by: msme on May 18, 2006, 05:02:56 PM
Might I suggest a good way to handle your fears that your child may feel she is to blame. We teach the philosophy of choices. Explain to her that everything we do involves choices.

For children they are mostly little choices. Like choosing to do her homework quickly so she can then watch her favorite show or choosing to play around & miss the show. The choice is hers.

Then explain that adults have many big choices to make. Sometimes they make the wrong choice & then they get themselves into a jam. Her GM made a poor choice when she told her not to tell. So, her GM is responsible for the outcome of her choice. That does not make her a bad person, it just makes her a person who made a poor choice. She is not to blame when some one else makes a poor choice.

A good anology might be something like if she were in a car & the driver fell asleep & bumped into another car, would she think she was to blame. No, the driver made a poor choice by not stopping to rest when they felt tired.

We also have taught the kidlets that anytime someone, especially, an adult, tells you not to tell your parents something, if it is not about a birthday or christmas surprise, that means that you must tell, right away.

Good luck & God bless you, we will be praying for you.
You never get a second chance to make a first impression!
Title: RE: No, mediation is done.
Post by: Aggiedad on May 19, 2006, 11:18:14 AM
THis helps/  My wife came up with something similar.  But I really like your wording.  WE talked with her about what happens when me make a mistake at school and someone get hurt or in trouble.  We explained it to her like that.

We are also letting her counselor at our children's center help.  My child has had to be told so many times this speech due to her mother's run in with the law, so I think she might be feeling that we are always telling her this.  THey are a great group of people.  

The war has officially began today.  BM and GP's are filing motions to enforce visitaion instead of going to the TRO hearing.  Not sure the reasoning behind this but we will see.

Title: RE: Help me---I am going to mediation and am torn!
Post by: maid marion on May 26, 2006, 01:35:51 PM
I haven't read the responses to your inquery but my situation is something like yours. Father and I had joint custody. Placement with him as he was the stay home parent during our marraige. (long story)
Recently he attempted to kidnapp our child but was apprehended and now is facing felony child snatching charges. grandparents were in on it.
I now have sole custody and agreed to supervised visits with a court appointed individual. He has since stoppped the visits and is now being held without bail as he violated the NCO.
My child thought that it was her fault as she wanted to go to Florida to visit grammy. I told her that it was not her fault in anyway and that she had every right to want to go visit her grammy. I told her that moving to a different place was a grownup choice and that she didn't do anything wrong. When he cancelled the visits I told her that the gal that supervised the visits called and said that her dad wasn't ging to be able to see her for awhile. She knows that I won't lie to her and she believes me.
Asfar as grammy goes. She constantly called here at first and then(on the advice from someone at this site) I picked the phone up one day and told her that if she wanted to communicate with our child that she could do so through the us postal service. She has yet to do so.
I never speak ill of either of them in front of my child and no one else is allowed to either. Even if what they have to say is the truth.
I plan to allow my child to communicate with both of them through letters (so that I can monitor what's being said) As soon as she askes to write to them I will allow her too. She hasn't asked yet.
It's hard sometimes to know what to do but remember that you are your child advocate and it's up to you to protect her. Reassure her that she's done nothing wrong and that if she wants to communicate with them that you'll help her write a letter or even draw some pictures for them if she wants. She may not understand what's wrong but she'll know that your willing to let her communicate with them if she wants to. She'll understand why it has to be this way when she gets older.
Good luck and God Bless,
Maid Marion
Title: FINAL OUTCOME FROM COURT - I am given up!
Post by: Aggiedad on Jun 09, 2006, 12:02:09 PM
The judge did nothing but say that the cousin could not be around my child.  He did not even touch the issue of my daughter being left alone with her mother and the gmother telling her not to tell.  

He is sending us to a court ordered parental coordinator who will come up with the final order (another new program in Texas so be ware!).  We are giving up.  We have tried for numerous years to make this work and it is not.  We have tried to work with the other side, but even through all us this, my daughter still tells everyone she can that she wants to live with her mother and grandparents and hated us.  So we are giving her her wish. She can go live there and turn out like them.  I can not prevent it from happening.  She gets to choose in a couple of years to go live there anyways.  

I know you will think that I am crazy.....but I spoke with her therapist this morning and she said that we can not undue the damage that this child has had from the other side and the situation is only going to escalate based on the last years of patterning and the fact that the child does not want to change.  The daughter does not want to be with us and is going to do everything in her power to damage my family until she gets what she live there agian.  I can honestly say I have given it 100% my all to protect her, but have not done my all to protect my other children in my home that she is hurting through all her problems that she is bringing from there house and acting out on them.  

I want to thank eveyone for always helping me and I know that I am making someone mad out there because I have what they want...but I can no longer do it at the expense of my family.  I am losing others just for her and I have to make a decision.  I do believe I am making my decision based on that it is in her best interest to make her happy, but I do fear that she will be emotionally and physically scarred for life no matter if she lives with me or her other family.  I can not longer battle this war.

Title: Please give it a week or so before making final decision
Post by: notnew on Jun 09, 2006, 12:28:47 PM
I hear ya and I've seen your posts. It is a sad situation. But, your emotions are very high right now so please don't make a final decision or sign on any dotted lines until the dust has settled, your emotions are settled and you may have a different view. If you still feel the same, then you have to do what you think is right.

I am so sorry that things aren't working out for your child or your family.

You need some time to yourself to relax a little.

You are in our thoughts and prayers.
Title: RE: FINAL OUTCOME FROM COURT - I am given up!
Post by: msme on Jun 09, 2006, 01:04:41 PM
Please don't do it. She is only 7. You can undo the damage. It won't be easy but her grandma & her mother are going to show themselves to her. I would find a new counselor. One that is interested in protecting her. I find it hard to believe that a reputable counselor would say something like that & say that they may as well go on hurting her.

Does she have a CASA worker? If not, get her one. Sometimes a neutral party can be a great help. They can also testify on your behalf. Make sure that you have lots of people to testify on your behalf to the parental coordinater. Someone needs to protect this child.

What did your attorney do at the hearing? It sounds like not much. You might want to run this by Socrateaser & see what he has to suggest. Remember to follow his guidlines for posting.

Good luck & God bless you & your family. I will continue to pray for all of you.
Title: How did I miss the 7 Y.O. part? -
Post by: notnew on Jun 09, 2006, 01:30:10 PM
I didn't realize. I read a lot of the postings, but somehow missed this very important detail in my mind. Getting old I guess.

msme is right. Please think about this. 7 years old, she is still a baby and there is time to repair what has happened to her mind.

Yes, please run things by Soc and see what he suggests. I agree, sounds like the lawyer was a jerk. You should also exercise your rights of appeal or file an exception asap.

We are all pulling for you!

Title: Suggestion
Post by: MixedBag on Jun 09, 2006, 03:00:27 PM
Get a copy of "Divorce Poison" and read one of the chapters later on in the book.  It gives a pretty good guide on when it is right to give up.

I suggest you don't and this comes from experience.

DH managed to turn around all three of his children who at one point were cussing him out worse than a sailor (I think that's the phrase), to opening their eyes to the truth.

The older two were 17 and 16 at the time, and the youngest was 7.  Even the 7 year old today (6 years later) has woken up.

DH also overcame geography -- and the fact that he got long distance parenting time as opposed to close distance time with every other weekend and such.

There is HOPE.
Title: RE: FINAL OUTCOME FROM COURT - I am given up!
Post by: Aggiedad on Jun 09, 2006, 03:03:26 PM
My attorney was awesome.  She did everything she could...objecting, questioning, pulling out all the evidence.  She has a CASA worker and she gave her recommendations as well as the therapist that they need supervised contact only and the judge did not pay attention or listen.  

When he gave his final saying....the case workers and people listening in the audience we at a loss.  One woman who I had no clue who was she was crying because of what the Judge had to say.  

I realize she is only 7...but the flip side to that is, she is only 7 and looke what is happening.  She will be pregnant by 12 or in Jail along side her mother.  No matter how myc hmoney and time I have I can never change her thinking, her mindset...nothing.  

I am going to allow her to stay with their family for the summer.  I am not going to exercise my summer visitation and see how it effects me and my family.  My wife is supporting this issue, even though I know my mind will not change.  

I know it looks like I have made this decison overnight and in reaction to what happened yesterday.  But I have been thinking about this for a year now.

My daughter is not happy unless I am buying her elaborate things and taking her by herself someplace.  She is always picking on my other children and causing problems because she does not feel that she fits in in my family.  I have tried to make her fit it as well as my direct family and in-laws...but she chooses not to participate or be an active member or cause a big stink to where we have to leave family gatherings.  She is old enough to know what she is doing.

I have had several people in association with this child tell me that she is very manipulative and good at what she pulls (this is mainly fromm school personel and friends of parents).  She can not even go to friends houses any more because I am scared of what she is going to pull, steal, and lie about.  THere is a lot more issues than what I have let on.  I am just giving her what she be with her mom.  

If someone could gaurantee me that everything will get better, than I would change my mind.  But no one can.  I have been hearing that it will only get better, but in three years it has only gotten worse.  I have lost my house, my mind, and almost my marriage over this and I  can no longer do it.  I have given it an honest effort, but the law will not take action and my daughter will not put forth the effort to try and be happy here and get along.

Title: My DH also has given up...
Post by: smtotwo on Jun 09, 2006, 03:06:17 PM
after years of fighting with the ex,  dealing with ungrateful children who act like their mother, and believe they are simply entitled to whatever they want , he has given up.

There will beno contact with the kids until they make the choice to contact him.  THey are 10 and 12.

she will continue to recieve her $200 a week in support, and one of the kids told DH that if he had a better job he could support them better, he will not relinquish his rights, but he will no longer make first contact, its up to the boys now.

I'm very sad but if he needs to pretend he doesnt have children, deal with the situation then thats what he needs.  I cant force him.

Good Luck.   Our hope had been that they would see normalcy, a stable relationship but they dont care.  My kids have been in the same school since pre-K,  skids have NEVER gone a full year to the same school.  They move every 7-10 months.

Courts dont care, wont help.  We're done.

Prayers to you and your child.
Title: RE: How did I miss the 7 Y.O. part? -
Post by: Aggiedad on Jun 09, 2006, 03:38:44 PM
There is nothing to appeal.  We have researched it and talked with her about it as well as my cousin who is a DA in Houston and we have nothing to base the "alleged sexual abuse" on.

If she had said it was a man, his nuts would be on a platter by society and by me.  But because my daughter has made up stories in the past (and admitted to lying) the judge made the decision to just slapp them on the wrist.  I can not live like this anymore.

I want my life back, this is a very hard decision, but she will never be happy here and will make my life miserable until she gets what she wants.


Title: RE: My DH also has given up...
Post by: Aggiedad on Jun 09, 2006, 03:48:48 PM
This is how I feel. THere is nothing that I can do anymore.  My wife is a teacher, and she has seen through her eyes that some kids just will not make an effort to change and are "a lost cause".  

I have beant over backwards.  I have rules in my house and my daughter does not abide by them.. She can not spend the rest of her life in her room being punished.  This is where we are.  She is on a daily basis picking fights with my wife, her siblings, and other children she is around.  

It is hard.  But she is unhappy and identical to her mother.  They can live in misery together.

The parts that rreally hurts, is that she would rather live someplace where she does not have her own room and own place to sleep then her at my house where she has her own room full of things, love, and a stable life.  I have given her eveything she "needs" but not wants.

Some children need to be with thier matter how sick they are.  All i can do is pray at this point that god will watch over her and that someday she will udnerstand.

I asked God to give me a sign on what I need to do no yesterday.  As i was walking out of the courtroom, I got the phone call from my mother in law stating what my daughter had done to another child (let me remind you she did this to my child an another one within the last couple of months).  To me that was it.  He was telling me I have done my all, I can no longer protect her from their twisted home life and lifesyle and Ihave to choose between my family and her.  Well I have choosen peace and my family.  

Thanks for the support.  Vindictive women (I am not a woman hater) in general make life He** for people like me who just want peace.  I would love for my daughter to go down there, be kept safe, visit with them, and return.  But I am battling a child, her mother, and grandmother plus their tainted life style of drugs and abuse.  I surrender.  I am not strong enough to endure this pain any longer.  

Title: I completely understand.....
Post by: msme on Jun 09, 2006, 07:29:13 PM
your frustration & anger. Have you considered a course of inpatient therapy. We have been in a similar situation for years. My granddaughter benefitted greatly from a few of stays in Red River Mental Hospital. They worked intensely with her & then when she came out, they have a day program, with school that the patients attend for 4 to 6 weeks until they are ready to return to their neighborhood school.

Putting her in there the first time was probably one of the hardest things my son ever did in his life but it did help. He got Custody when she was 9 & by 12, she had been there 4 times. She used to threaten suicide so that she could go there to feel safe. She is now 14 & finally starting to see her mother for what she really is.

One thing you said in your last post, just clicked & something my son did might help you. You said that she refuses to follow rules & is very unhappy. Her behavior is probably one of 2 things. Either she believes that negative behavior is the best way to get attention or perhaps she has been told that if she is bad enough, you will give up & let her live with Mom.

We went through both situations with MDGD. Her therapist told my son & his wife not to respond to negative behavior. Simply, quietly state that her behavior was not acceptable. Take a pencil & a piece of paper & print out a positive affirmation, appropriate to the situation. It could be as simple as "I know it is important to tell the truth." Send her to the kitchen table to write it 25 times.

When she finishes it, quietly tell her that you hope she will continue to improve. Then tear the paper up & have her throw it in the trash.  Supposedly, doing that will drive home the message that when we do something for a person, they should appreciate it. By you tearing up what she just did, she should experience some frustration of you not appreciating what she has done. Anyway, it does work for them.

When I tell you that we know about a twisted vindicitive woman who plays with a childs head, I am not kidding. She has & still continues to tell her lies but MDGD is starting to see through her & take control of the situation.

Another thing that has helped was my son telling her that we will never lie to her. And we don't. He did tell her that some things are for adults only & therefore none of her business. Court is one of those things & until recently, he has never spoken to her about any of it.

This time, though, the PBFH told her that he had taken her to court & was trying to get the court to ban her from ever seeing her & her brothers, again. He did have to tell her that her mother had initiated the case & he was only defending himself.

Actually, she had taken him to court & charged him with contempt for failing to produce the children for visitation on 3 weekends at the end of 2005. Of course, she forgot to mention to her free lawyer that she had failed to show for visitation since dec of 2004.

She had gotten to talk to her mother when her dad was nice enough to let her & the boys spend a weekend with her aunt & her maternal grandparents. He told them that if they brought her mother out to see them, there would never be another visit because their therapist said they needed reunification counseling after not seeing her for nearly a year & a half.

They did not bring her out but did call & let her talk to her, not the boys. The PBFH used that call to lie about the court & get her all angry at her dad. We thought she was going to wind up in the hospital again but he helped her & they got through it together.

The PBFH used to tell her that it was her job to break her daddy & his fiance up. That way she & daddy would get back together & they would be a family again. When that came out & didn't work cuz they got married, she then told her that if she was really bad, & did bad in school, her daddy would get mad at her & send her to live with her mom.

All that got her was the chance to repeat sixth grade. It was a rough year, but she learned more about the kind of liar her mother is. One thing that we always tell all the kids, (my son & his wife have 8 kidletts between them) is that there is nothing they can ever do to make us stop loving them. We tell them that we may not like what they do or they may disappoint us, make us angry and such but nothing and no one can ever make us stop loving them.

We feel that all kids need to hear that frequently. I hope this gives you some hope. I realize the pain you are in but the pain of losing her will be worse. Reconsider not using your summer visitation. Consider video recording as much of each visit as you can. Make plans according to her behavior. If she is good, you will do something special on the next visit.

Document all of this & if things get worse, you can get your lawyer to file an emergency ex parte order to stop all visitation until you can get back to court, hopefully before another judge.

Good luck & God bless.

You never get a second chance to make a first impression!
Title: WELL, things have changed....
Post by: Aggiedad on Jun 11, 2006, 07:28:20 AM
I have had some time to talk it over with several poeple and I have decided to change my mind.  I realize I was pretty adament, but something else has happened as well.

Her mother and grandmother do not want to raise her.  Her grandmother said that they can not offer her the life that I can. (money wise and school related possibilities).  So now what.  They said they are wanting to change their ways because after heaing all the people talk from the hearing, it opened their eyes to what they are doing to the child.

Now we have been down this road before and it has gotten us no where, so we will see.  I am going to try and take her to a better therpaist.

Thanks for the help.
Title: Perhaps she has.....
Post by: msme on Jun 11, 2006, 07:50:44 AM
seen the light. Of course, I believe in Santa Clause & the Easter Bunny, too. No, really I will be praying for all of you. If I were you, I would jump on this & get her to sign over sole custody to you with properly supervised visitation for them . She needs lots of love & patience.
Look at the parenting plans on here & modify one to fit your family. To find a good therapist, I would call all the school counselors in the surrounding area & ask for the name of a good therapist. You will get several names but one will come up more than others. Remember, cream rises to the top. The one that most school counselors reccommend is probably the best. That is how we found ours & have been very pleased with him.

You have chosen a very difficult path but one that will be well worth the journey. Keep coming back here & let us know how things are going. You will need a place to vent & to brag. Lots of us here are living the same nightmare & will continue to give you ideas & hope.

Good luck & God bless you. Our prayers are with you.
You never get a second chance to make a first impression!
Title: Good Luck!
Post by: Ref on Jun 12, 2006, 07:18:32 AM
Wow. What a situation! The other councelor was flat WRONG. Your whole world changes in months when you are 7. She will change and you will be the reason she is a better person.

When she gets therapy, I recommend you and you wife also see a therapist about how to deal with DD. If she is as much trouble as she sounds, a little parenting training might go a long way.

Good luck with everything.