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Main Forums => Visitation Issues => Topic started by: Amy_in_MA on Jul 26, 2006, 08:05:51 AM

Title: How to tell my son...(long, sorry)
Post by: Amy_in_MA on Jul 26, 2006, 08:05:51 AM
Saturday afternoon, an off weekend for visitation, my son's dad called and wanted to talk about our son's visitation. Currently, he only spends every other Saturday with him, from 9:30 a.m. to 6:30 p.m. (by dad's choice). I was hoping that he was going to ask to up the time. Instead, he told me that our son does fine the first half of the day, and then the second half he's just miserable asking when he's going home, doesn't want to do anything except go home, etc. As such, dad wanted to shorten his visits to half the time. I told him that I thought actually the opposite was what was needed and he needs to spend more time with him and give him more one on one attention...and I suggested that he touch base with our son's counselor about it before making any decision. Our son is 5.5 years old. I reminded him that our son has a lot of issues with separation anxiety, and it's been made worse by my mom's recent and very unexpected death (she was really my son's other primary caretaker and adored my son and he her), and that the answer isn't (I don't think) reducing the time he has now but rather to increase it, make it more one on one, etc.

I asked him what it was he was hoping or expecting I could provide him with...I didn't want to offer suggestions if he didn't want them, but that I could also share my perceptions of our son's time there (he comes home saying that his father never plays with him, even when he asks him to, that it's already too long being over there, etc.). I also told him that our son might be overstimulated with all that's going on (there are 4 children there at visits, between the ages of 3 and 10, in a small 2 bedroom trailer), and by the time half the day is over, he may really be needing some quiet time. I suggested that the counselor needed to hear from him because she: 1) needs to have as much information about how son is doing in all situations, and he could provide valuable input to that; 2) may have some really good suggestions on how he can best work to improve the situation. He told me he would call the counselor and talk to her and then get back to me.

I've suggested additional visits on off-weekends with his other kids occasionally, for more one on one time with Zachary, he says he can't because any time he doesn't have the children, he's working. I've suggested a once or twice a week short phone call to keep contact open/regular between visits. He has declined these. There was, admittedly, a part of me that thought I should just let him shorten the visits since our son doesn't seem to want to be there and dad seems to not care less if he's there...but I know ideally, that's not the best answer.

So yesterday, I spoke with our son's counselor and she was in agreement that right now, in particular on the heels of my mom's death, would be a really bad time for our son to endure another loss by losing time with his dad. She's in agreement with my suggestion that dad spend some one on one time with son to strengthen (create???) that bond. The bad news is that dad hasn't called her so far, as he said he would. I was talking to son the night before last night about it and he said that basically, his dad doesn't play with him or the other boys, only with Jordan (who is 10). So he is very much feeling as though one sibling is getting all of the time and attention.

Dad and I talked yesterday, and it became obvious that the only solution he really wanted was for me to agree to him taking son for only half a day. He said it isn't fair to the other kids that son is so miserable in the afternoons, and doesn't want to do anything except go home. I told him that was unfortunate, but sometimes kids are in bad moods, unhappy, and it effects other people but as parents, we have to deal with that...and we're talking all of 4 hours. He said it wasn't my choice to refuse to let him cut his visit short. I told him that it was, and I would just not be here when /if he tries to bring him home early. He said "you would do that???" And I said "hell yes...he NEEDS that time with you." His reply? "Then I just won't pick him up." I said "are you serious??? Because you don't want to deal with an unhappy child and make any effort to improve your relationship with him, you'll just walk away from him and abandon him? The only way that I'm going to agree to you decreasing your time with him is if you're going to just back out of his life altogether...and that's not what's best for him." He said "I'm not picking him up." I told him "You're an asshole." Yup, I said it, and I don't regret it. And he hung up on me, of course.

I left a message for dad that if it is truly his plan not to pick up son, he needs to call and tell him and explain to him why. Now of course, I can't MAKE him call...so I am fully expecting that I'm going to have to tell son. How would you approach this? What would you even say to him? I also have a all into son's counselor to get suggestions on how to approach this with him.

Thanks in advance...I know it was a long post to read, and I appreciate the input.

--------------------

Dream lofty dreams, and as you dream, so shall you become. Your vision is the promise of what you shall one day be; your ideal is the prophecy of what you shall at last unveil.

     ~ James Allen
Title: You are a great person
Post by: notnew on Jul 26, 2006, 10:35:18 AM
And I sure do wish more of us had other parents to deal with who thought just like you do.

You should stop wasting  your time trying to convince dad to be a dad. It is degenerating into arguing. If you have a court order in place, then you should tell dad that you will follow the visitation to the letter and if he wants it changed, he needs to file the proper motions with the court. Period - end of conversation.

If he fails to pick up the child then you should keep a log of everything that happens so when and if he says in court that you have denied his time, you have something to back it up with.

What an asshole he is. I am sorry to swear, but it is true and knowing there are guys like that out there when I am fighting tooth and nail for my kid just makes me feel like beating the crap out of him.

Poor kid. Good thing you've got him in counseling. He is going to need it to get over the rejection by his father.

You have done the right thing but it is time to pull out as far as trying to convince him to do the right thing. HE is trying to get YOU to tell him what to do and you cannot do that. He needs to grow up and realize he is messing up his and that kids life.

Good luck and bless you for doing the right thing for your kid.
Title: You are a great person
Post by: notnew on Jul 26, 2006, 10:35:54 AM
And I sure do wish more of us had other parents to deal with who thought just like you do.

You should stop wasting  your time trying to convince dad to be a dad. It is degenerating into arguing. If you have a court order in place, then you should tell dad that you will follow the visitation to the letter and if he wants it changed, he needs to file the proper motions with the court. Period - end of conversation.

If he fails to pick up the child then you should keep a log of everything that happens so when and if he says in court that you have denied his time, you have something to back it up with.

What an asshole he is. I am sorry to swear, but it is true and knowing there are guys like that out there when I am fighting tooth and nail for my kid just makes me feel like beating the crap out of him.

Poor kid. Good thing you've got him in counseling. He is going to need it to get over the rejection by his father.

You have done the right thing but it is time to pull out as far as trying to convince him to do the right thing. HE is trying to get YOU to tell him what to do and you cannot do that. He needs to grow up and realize he is messing up his and that kids life.

Good luck and bless you for doing the right thing for your kid.
Title: hiya
Post by: catherine on Jul 26, 2006, 10:51:52 AM
I don't know what I'd say to my son in that situation.  I'd have to do whatever the counselor reccomends.  I wish you had other family nearby that Z could get to know.  Does Z know which weekends his Dad is supposed to see him?  I would avoid any Dad talk at all until the counselor reccomends what to do.

What a frickin asshole.  No, Z does not need to lose two members of his family.  I know you are doing your best to co-parent but he really doesn't seem mature enough to handle it.  Maybe he will someday?

I think about ya lot gal and hope that you are making it day by day.
Title: double post sorry *nt
Post by: catherine on Jul 26, 2006, 10:52:48 AM
I
Title: triple post, sorry *nt
Post by: catherine on Jul 26, 2006, 10:53:55 AM
I
Title: ,, was having problems, double (or quaddruple post)
Post by: catherine on Jul 26, 2006, 10:54:27 AM
I
Title: RE: hiya
Post by: Amy_in_MA on Jul 26, 2006, 11:17:14 AM
Hey there. :) I just got off the phone with the counselor and she feels that it would be best for Zachary not to lose ALL contact with his dad (unless that is what his dad ends up choosing). She also said that I could leave it on Zachary's terms of when he asks/wants to see hsi dad. So I suggested talking with Zachary, asking him how he would feel about having a shorter visit with his dad, and let him know that ultimately it is mommy and daddy's decision, but we wanted to know how he felt about it. I plan to talk to him about that tonight, and I've already left a message for Rob asking him to give me a call so we can discuss a compromise. It's entirely possible that he'll just refuse to come altogether anyway. I'm not sure.

You know, it's not that Zachary won't go with anyone else. He had a sleepover (the first since my mom's death in May) with my brother and his fiancee this past Saturday night...and he had a blast! Wanted to stay there every other night. So it's not that he won't go anywhere, he just wants to go places where he feels loved and welcomed. We (counselor and I) talked about how strongly Zachary is attached to me, and that strongly attached children do better in life later with relationships and socialization, though it can drive the parents nuts (she's concerned that I never get any breaks and I desperately need them...I assured her that I would work something out with friends to get breaks even if Rob doesn't continue his visits, so I won't base my decision on that).

Anyway...I'm tired...I'm sad...I'm heartbroken, missing my mom even more because she gave so much to Zachary in terms of love, and now this...
--------------------

Dream lofty dreams, and as you dream, so shall you become. Your vision is the promise of what you shall one day be; your ideal is the prophecy of what you shall at last unveil.

     ~ James Allen
Title: ((Amy)) I miss you!
Post by: Sherry1 on Jul 26, 2006, 11:22:04 AM
First off, I am so sorry about your mom!  

As you know, you can't force Z's father to step up to the plate and be a dad.  I don't think there is a good way on how you tell Z or try to explain it to him.  Bottom line, his dad is an ass and always will be.  I think Z's dad doesn't want to spend time with him so he is using a cop out of the half day scenario.  Does Z's dad even try to make his parenting time fun and/or eventful?  Doesn't sound like it.  Nor does it sound like he is even making an effort.

I think that whatever approach Z's counselor advises you to use will probably be the best.  Sometimes it is too emotional for the parent to see the best approach and the counselor might be able to help with it.  But like I said, I don't see any good way to tell Z.  I think Z is going to feel totally rejected, and this isn't a good time for that right now especially since he just lost his grandma!
Title: ((Amy)) I miss you!
Post by: Sherry1 on Jul 26, 2006, 11:22:49 AM
First off, I am so sorry about your mom!  

As you know, you can't force Z's father to step up to the plate and be a dad.  I don't think there is a good way on how you tell Z or try to explain it to him.  Bottom line, his dad is an ass and always will be.  I think Z's dad doesn't want to spend time with him so he is using a cop out of the half day scenario.  Does Z's dad even try to make his parenting time fun and/or eventful?  Doesn't sound like it.  Nor does it sound like he is even making an effort.

I think that whatever approach Z's counselor advises you to use will probably be the best.  Sometimes it is too emotional for the parent to see the best approach and the counselor might be able to help with it.  But like I said, I don't see any good way to tell Z.  I think Z is going to feel totally rejected, and this isn't a good time for that right now especially since he just lost his grandma!
Title: RE: ((Amy)) I miss you!
Post by: Amy_in_MA on Jul 26, 2006, 11:25:24 AM
Thanks Sherry. See my post to Catherine about my conversation with the counselor...I see my own counselor tonight and I'm sure she'll be able to help me put a little more distance. It's just hard to see this little boy who really is awesome (yes, he's a challenge, but he's smart, sweet, energetic) be so disregarded.

My mom...as crazy as she made me and as difficult as our relationship was, she was often my companion...it's very, very lonely without her. The one person who would listen to me, no matter what, is gone. :(

--------------------

Dream lofty dreams, and as you dream, so shall you become. Your vision is the promise of what you shall one day be; your ideal is the prophecy of what you shall at last unveil.

     ~ James Allen
Title: Ahhhh Amy...I don't think he is ever going to change on this issue...
Post by: Genie on Jul 26, 2006, 11:36:19 AM
and it is so sad b/c here you are doing everything you can to make time for him to see and talk to son and he continuously refuses and shortens the time.  I really think he just can't handle the 4 kids, especially since one is a baby right?  Bet he is shortening the time with not just your son but his other children too.  Probably thinks he wants time to himself since he isn't working.

Your X has always been selfish and only thought about himself. Instead of parenting son he wants everything to be just fine and wonderful when he sees him.  Your son is very smart and can see what he is doing.  This is probably one of the reasons he is in counseling now.  

So my advice: You can't force him to see son when he is supposed too.  All you can do is continue with the counseling and being a great Mom that you are to son and he will get through this.  And son will know what his Dad did and X will pay for that in the long run. But at least that will be his own fault not yours.

It must be so hard for you too without your Mom around. I know it is hard to do it by yourself.  Too bad you can't be selfish for yourself huh?

Keep it up.  Glad to see you.  We have missed you alot.
Title: hi there darlin =)
Post by: Buff on Jul 26, 2006, 11:43:19 AM
I'm so sorry things haven't improved in this front.  I don't know what to tell you, except what I've always told you; you can't force this situation, no matter how good your intentions.  If R doesn't want to do it, he's not gonna do it, and anyone griping to him about it is just gonna make his resolve stronger.  

I am sorry for Z, tho, in light of the circumstances.  He needs a father, FCOL, but R just doesn't want to be one, but I also think it may be compounding the hurt by trying to force a situation that just isn't gonna be.  That just makes Z feel even more rejected.  

I'm sending heartfelt sympathies for the loss of your mom.  We're thinking of you, always.  
Title: RE: Ahhhh Amy...I don't think he is ever going to change on this issue...
Post by: Amy_in_MA on Jul 26, 2006, 11:44:17 AM
The youngest is 3.5 and primarily lives with him...and the other is his 10 year old daughter, and he has overnights with her those weekends of visits. The 4.5 year old is his step-son who lives with them...so he's not shortening his time with any of the other kids. :( And I do agree that he can't handle 4 kids...and Zachary is the easiest for him to "dispose" of. :(

--------------------

Dream lofty dreams, and as you dream, so shall you become. Your vision is the promise of what you shall one day be; your ideal is the prophecy of what you shall at last unveil.

     ~ James Allen
Title: RE: How to tell my son...(long, sorry)
Post by: Felafel on Jul 26, 2006, 11:45:53 AM
I'm so sorry you've been going through all this.  You are a wonderful mother, and you were a wonderful daughter.  I hope things look up for you and little Z very soon.
Title: RE: How to tell my son...(long, sorry)
Post by: Felafel on Jul 26, 2006, 11:46:08 AM
I'm so sorry you've been going through all this.  You are a wonderful mother, and you were a wonderful daughter.  I hope things look up for you and little Z very soon.
Title: RE: How to tell my son...(long, sorry)
Post by: Felafel on Jul 26, 2006, 11:46:08 AM
I'm so sorry you've been going through all this.  You are a wonderful mother, and you were a wonderful daughter.  I hope things look up for you and little Z very soon.
Title: Thanks Buff.
Post by: Amy_in_MA on Jul 26, 2006, 11:46:22 AM
Most days it's really hard for me to get my mind around the idea that I'll never see her again or talk to her again...and when I do, and I think about it, it just hurts so much. :( She made me nuts but she was my mom, you know?

--------------------

Dream lofty dreams, and as you dream, so shall you become. Your vision is the promise of what you shall one day be; your ideal is the prophecy of what you shall at last unveil.

     ~ James Allen
Title: RE: How to tell my son...(long, sorry)
Post by: Felafel on Jul 26, 2006, 11:46:28 AM
I'm so sorry you've been going through all this.  You are a wonderful mother, and you were a wonderful daughter.  I hope things look up for you and little Z very soon.
Title: RE: How to tell my son...(long, sorry)
Post by: Felafel on Jul 26, 2006, 11:46:28 AM
I'm so sorry you've been going through all this.  You are a wonderful mother, and you were a wonderful daughter.  I hope things look up for you and little Z very soon.
Title: RE: How to tell my son...(long, sorry)
Post by: Felafel on Jul 26, 2006, 11:46:52 AM
I'm so sorry you've been going through all this.  You are a wonderful mother, and you were a wonderful daughter.  I hope things look up for you and little Z very soon.
Title: ::sigh:: I know, I can only imagine...
Post by: Buff on Jul 26, 2006, 11:49:09 AM
I know your belief system, she's there with you, ya know. Talk to her.  

(((((AMY))))))
Title: guys, I'll delete all the dups...
Post by: Buff on Jul 26, 2006, 11:51:08 AM
the system is hiccuping, did it for me too.  I'll delete all except primary (first) posts so as not to clutter up this thread.  
Title: RE: guys, I'll delete all the dups...
Post by: Felafel on Jul 26, 2006, 11:52:12 AM
Thanks Buff.  It was making me look kinda manic.
Title: RE: guys, I'll delete all the dups...
Post by: Felafel on Jul 26, 2006, 11:52:17 AM
Thanks Buff.  It was making me look kinda manic.
Title: RE: guys, I'll delete all the dups...
Post by: Felafel on Jul 26, 2006, 11:52:21 AM
Thanks Buff.  It was making me look kinda manic.
Title: RE: guys, I'll delete all the dups...
Post by: Felafel on Jul 26, 2006, 11:52:30 AM
Thanks Buff.  It was making me look kinda manic.
Title: RE: guys, I'll delete all the dups...
Post by: Felafel on Jul 26, 2006, 11:52:42 AM
Thanks Buff.  It was making me look kinda manic.
Title: It is so hard when we see someone we love, especially a precious
Post by: Sherry1 on Jul 26, 2006, 11:53:14 AM
little boy being disregarded.  He is already suffereing a the loss of his grandma and now his dad doesn't want to spend any quality time with him!  I read what you posted to Catherine and I find it suspicious that Z is "fine" spending time with others.  As you said, he has a hard time going where he isn't loved.  I really do like your idea of asking Z how he feels about spending time with dad.

I also wanted to let you know that RD's father passed away last night.  I really wish you would reconsider coming back to the board.  I personally miss you and the well thought out advice you give out.  

((((hugs)))) Sherry
Title: RE: It is so hard when we see someone we love, especially a precious
Post by: Amy_in_MA on Jul 26, 2006, 11:56:36 AM
Oh man...please please please pass along my condolences to Rd. :( It seems like everyone is losing someone lately. :(

--------------------

Dream lofty dreams, and as you dream, so shall you become. Your vision is the promise of what you shall one day be; your ideal is the prophecy of what you shall at last unveil.

     ~ James Allen
Title: RE: ::sigh:: I know, I can only imagine...
Post by: Amy_in_MA on Jul 26, 2006, 11:59:31 AM
This is something that I've been talking about in my own counseling, that I can't feel her spirit around me at all. I do talk to her...but I don't "hear" or feel her. I had some dreams early on, one in which she didn't realize she was dead and I had to let her know gently. And she took it ok, but then I never saw her again. And then I've had other dreams that she isn't really dead, and then I get freaked out by all the creditors we've told she was dead, social security administration, etc., afraid that they'll come after us for fraud, when we honestly didn't know, and then I wonder who's body we cremated and where she's been all this time if she's not dead. My sleep is just awful lately. :( Making me more tired and irritable than usual (uh oh).

--------------------

Dream lofty dreams, and as you dream, so shall you become. Your vision is the promise of what you shall one day be; your ideal is the prophecy of what you shall at last unveil.

     ~ James Allen
Title: whoops, looks like I can't...
Post by: Buff on Jul 26, 2006, 11:59:37 AM
I guess cuz it's a different board. Oh well.
Title: whoops, looks like I can't...
Post by: Buff on Jul 26, 2006, 12:00:08 PM
I guess cuz it's a different board. Oh well.
Title: RE: How to tell my son...(long, sorry)
Post by: Amy_in_MA on Jul 26, 2006, 12:00:58 PM
Thanks Felafel. And you're cracking me up in your "mania". LOL.

--------------------

Dream lofty dreams, and as you dream, so shall you become. Your vision is the promise of what you shall one day be; your ideal is the prophecy of what you shall at last unveil.

     ~ James Allen
Title: RE: ::sigh:: I know, I can only imagine...
Post by: Buff on Jul 26, 2006, 12:03:28 PM
maybe she's with Z.  =)  Once things have evened-out there, I bet you'll feel her.  We're here too.  Come home.  
Title: RE: How to tell my son...(long, sorry)
Post by: Felafel on Jul 26, 2006, 12:03:36 PM
Well, I am an emphatic girl, that's for sure. :)

By the way, your ex is a real crap weasel.
Title: RE: ::sigh:: I know, I can only imagine...
Post by: Amy_in_MA on Jul 26, 2006, 12:05:01 PM
Oh he says he talks to her regularly. Ola suggested that perhaps it was too painful for her to be away from us for a while, and that once her spirit is feeling more healed, she'll be with us again. But Zachary says he hears her tell him she loves him. Makes me cry. He very seldom talks with me about how he feels because he's afraid of making me sad...and it scares him when I cry. We've all reassured him that crying is good, it helps get feelings out, and that I want very much to know how he's feeling and thinking.

--------------------

Dream lofty dreams, and as you dream, so shall you become. Your vision is the promise of what you shall one day be; your ideal is the prophecy of what you shall at last unveil.

     ~ James Allen
Title: LOL. n/m
Post by: Amy_in_MA on Jul 26, 2006, 12:05:39 PM

--------------------

Dream lofty dreams, and as you dream, so shall you become. Your vision is the promise of what you shall one day be; your ideal is the prophecy of what you shall at last unveil.

     ~ James Allen
Title: RE: whoops, looks like I can't...
Post by: Felafel on Jul 26, 2006, 12:07:20 PM
That's fine.  I look psycho, but whatever.  (Totally kidding.)
Title: (((Amy)))..m
Post by: Giggles on Jul 26, 2006, 12:08:10 PM
Every day for the past year I have regretted introducing my YD to her father because he doesn't follow through on what he says he's going to do.  Yet...We're the ones to pick up the pieces of those shattered lil hearts and it's not fair.

You have to be one of the most Awesomest (not sure if that's a word) Mom's I know.  Don't second guess yourself for even a fraction of a second.  If Dad decides not to pick him up...then perhaps the 2 of you could go to the park, take a walk down by a lake and talk about how he feels??

Hang in there hon....(((((((Amy & Zach))))))))

PS...WE REALLY MISS YOU on SWB!!!!! :-)
Title: Thanks Giggles.
Post by: Amy_in_MA on Jul 26, 2006, 12:12:09 PM
We're actually heading up on Sunday afternoon to go visit with Tracer and her family who are up in NH for their annual vacation at the lake. I'm pretty psyched to see them again and just get away. If R decides not to take a visit at all, I may call and see if we could come up a day earlier. And thanks for the kind words. I lose patience with Z a lot more lately...I'm tired, I'm stretched thin, and there is no real space for me to grieve (or at least it feels that way)...and I question all the time whether I'm a good enough mother to him. I don't want to mar him for life with my expectations for his behavior, but damn, the kid can be SOOOO hyper and NEVER stops talking. LOL.

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Dream lofty dreams, and as you dream, so shall you become. Your vision is the promise of what you shall one day be; your ideal is the prophecy of what you shall at last unveil.

     ~ James Allen
Title: man...
Post by: Buff on Jul 26, 2006, 12:29:12 PM
we really need to get CG and Z together, maybe they'll wear each other out.  I have deemed George Thoroghgood's "You Talk Too Much" as CG's catch song.  You heard it?  Here..

http://entertainment.circuitcity.com/Music/Album.aspx?p_id=P+++++5645&a_id=R+++689122&search=GEORGE%20THOROGOOD&sec=all%20music&prodid=CAP98430.2
Title: We miss you
Post by: Emma on Jul 26, 2006, 12:31:11 PM
i don't know what to tell you about r, it just seems he's continuing to be a lousy father...poor z :(
Title: Amy
Post by: becky on Jul 26, 2006, 12:35:20 PM
left a message to you on the CS board this morning, but wanted to be sure you knew I have been thinking of you.  I sure miss your thoughts and opinions on the SWB.  I'll have to think over the post before I can offer any insight.
Title: this is direct, I think...
Post by: Buff on Jul 26, 2006, 12:51:44 PM
http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/clipserve/B000002UZM001004/0/ref=mu_sam_wma_001_004/103-2690624-7321427
Title: That's awesome!
Post by: Amy_in_MA on Jul 26, 2006, 01:05:12 PM
Every time my brother has spent more than an hour with Z, next time he sees me he says "my hat is off to you...I don't know how you do it, I'd go insane". LOL. Constant chatter.

I was actually looking at airfares to Denver and considering giving DS a call about taking a long weekend out there this fall sometime.

--------------------

Dream lofty dreams, and as you dream, so shall you become. Your vision is the promise of what you shall one day be; your ideal is the prophecy of what you shall at last unveil.

     ~ James Allen
Title: SSDD with him, isn't it? *sigh* nm
Post by: Amy_in_MA on Jul 26, 2006, 01:05:36 PM

--------------------

Dream lofty dreams, and as you dream, so shall you become. Your vision is the promise of what you shall one day be; your ideal is the prophecy of what you shall at last unveil.

     ~ James Allen
Title: RE: How to tell my son...(long, sorry)
Post by: Stirling on Jul 26, 2006, 01:21:18 PM
Amy, it's so nice to see you here.  I have missed you.  I was thinking about you the other day, wondering what you've been up to.

I know I have said this in the past, I think your Ex is only going to be the type of dad that is is comfortable with.  I don't think that he will ever be the dad to Z that you would like him to be or that Z deserves.  

I really don't think that you can force your ex to step up to the plate and take his time with Z.  If your Ex is no longer comfortable with the amount of parenting time he is exercising then he will find a way to reduce it to where he is comfortable.  If your counselor thinks that it is best for Z to spend time with his dad then all I can say is some time together is better than no time together.  

If it is decided that your Ex truly steps out of Z's life then I do think that it is up to your Ex to explain it to Z.  If Z asks you why maybe respond that you really don't know why and perhaps you should ask your dad that question.  It's really a difficult situation.  You don't want to say anything to Z that will make his dad look bad, yet your ex has placed you in a situation where it is almost impossible not to do so.  
Title: you have mail.....nm
Post by: Buff on Jul 26, 2006, 01:22:00 PM
nm
Title: RE: How to tell my son...(long, sorry)
Post by: Amy_in_MA on Jul 26, 2006, 01:26:04 PM
I know, and everything you've said makes sense. Hard to imagine that he can't even handle a day...but in talking to him, he kept saying "Amy, I have 4 kids to worry about" (yes, his step-son is included in there because he has him those days as well). He's got more than he can handle, and Z is the dispensable one. :( Sad but true.

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Dream lofty dreams, and as you dream, so shall you become. Your vision is the promise of what you shall one day be; your ideal is the prophecy of what you shall at last unveil.

     ~ James Allen
Title: Thanks Becky. nm
Post by: Amy_in_MA on Jul 26, 2006, 01:26:22 PM

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Dream lofty dreams, and as you dream, so shall you become. Your vision is the promise of what you shall one day be; your ideal is the prophecy of what you shall at last unveil.

     ~ James Allen
Title: RE: How to tell my son...(long, sorry)
Post by: Stirling on Jul 26, 2006, 01:43:44 PM
"He's got more than he can handle, and Z is the dispensable one."

I really don't think that this is a reflection of Z.  It is most likely that R considers you to be the most understanding and easiest to deal with of all his Exs.  
Title: *UPDATE*
Post by: Amy_in_MA on Jul 26, 2006, 01:59:56 PM
So I talked with dad, I apologized for name calling, he apologized for getting angry and we agreed to shorten Z's visit by 2 hours to start, and see how that goes. He said he still intends to call the counselor (so he says), and basically said "and not to lay blame or anything like that, but he started having a hard time that night he had the bad sleepover, and I had already told him he could go home and then you said he couldn't...ever since then he hasn't wanted to be here." Yeah, ok...until next time...come on, we all knew it was going to be MY fault somehow. :)

Thanks all for the support, encouragement and input.

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Dream lofty dreams, and as you dream, so shall you become. Your vision is the promise of what you shall one day be; your ideal is the prophecy of what you shall at last unveil.

     ~ James Allen
Title: RE: How to tell my son...(long, sorry)
Post by: Amy_in_MA on Jul 26, 2006, 02:01:41 PM
I don't think it has to do with my ease of him dealing with me...because of late, things have not gone well (he's been an absolute ass in the wake of my mom's death and I have no tolerance for it and have called him on his bs left and right). I think it has more to do with the fact that he's never lived with Zachary (he has lived with both of his other children) and doesn't have that same bond...there is far less emotionally invested in their relationship, from both of their sides.

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Dream lofty dreams, and as you dream, so shall you become. Your vision is the promise of what you shall one day be; your ideal is the prophecy of what you shall at last unveil.

     ~ James Allen
Title: Well of course dear, it is always (our fault) LOL... anyway, I am
Post by: Sherry1 on Jul 26, 2006, 02:31:10 PM
glad you talked to the moron (mean Z's dad).  Even though he didn't have the right answers.. I do hope he talks to the Counselor.
Title: I wouldn't say anything to him unless he asked...
Post by: olanna on Jul 26, 2006, 04:14:54 PM
and then if he did ask, I would call his Dad and hand him the phone. Let Dad explain where he is (or isn't).

You already know how I feel about this entire sitch.
Title: Figures....he has to justify his behavior somehow...
Post by: Genie on Jul 26, 2006, 08:11:28 PM
right?  And what better way to do that than pick out something that will make it your fault.

You know and we know you are wrong.  Crap you bend over backwards for him to be a father to his son.  Too bad he doesn't appreciate.  Bet there are alot of Fathers on these boards that would switch places with him in a heart beat.

Title: It's that age..m
Post by: Giggles on Jul 27, 2006, 06:49:08 AM
OMG...I often play the "Lets see how long you can be quiet" game with YD...I even offered her $100 to be quiet for 5 min...she COULDN"T do it!! ugh!

As for the losing patience...I do to :-)  I feel like total dog crap afterward and often apologize to YD for it.  We then have a lil Mom/Daughter talk about how "I need her to help me, that I have a lot to do and need help...just like when she needs help, Mommy helps her."

I actually ran into her father last night...and I'm going to start forcing him to take her more often.  They so need that connection.  So I have a free weekend...told him I'm bringing her up on Sat morning and he can bring her home Sun night!!! WOO HOO!!!  He agreed!!!

It will get better ((((Amy))))
Title: RE: Hi Amy!
Post by: junglechicken on Jul 27, 2006, 09:13:24 PM
I don't know what made me check this board, but I'm glad i did.

I certainly can't offer any better advice than anyone else hasn't already.  I've been thinking of you and Z a lot, and I'm deeply sorry about your mom.

You're missed, you know.  :)
Title: RE: Hi Amy!
Post by: Amy_in_MA on Jul 28, 2006, 05:19:47 AM
Thanks JC. I appreciate the support.

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Dream lofty dreams, and as you dream, so shall you become. Your vision is the promise of what you shall one day be; your ideal is the prophecy of what you shall at last unveil.

     ~ James Allen
Title: Hi Amy... : ) m
Post by: step-mom on Jul 28, 2006, 06:05:34 AM
Someone mentioned you were over here...looks like lots of people stopped by to say Hi and tell you that you are missed because you are!

How are you & Z enjoying this summer? (besides this part)....

Miss ya..JM
Title: RE: Hi Amy... : ) m
Post by: Amy_in_MA on Jul 28, 2006, 07:44:04 AM
Hmmmm...summer...well, it's been a very busy summer but not necessarily in a good way. Too much death and sadness (between my close friend's father's death 3 days before my mom's, my mom's brother/my uncle, who passed away just a couple of weeks ago, and my other good friend's grandfather who just passed away this Monday)...way too much grief. We're getting away for a day or so this weekend (Sunday to Monday) to visit with Tracer and her family up at their lake house in NH...so I'm looking forward to that.

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Dream lofty dreams, and as you dream, so shall you become. Your vision is the promise of what you shall one day be; your ideal is the prophecy of what you shall at last unveil.

     ~ James Allen
Title: ((((Amy)))
Post by: dsm on Jul 28, 2006, 09:19:40 AM
Hey you.  I'm sorry R is being such a butt-head with all of this.  You're right - it's the same old game over and over and it gets tiring.  But know this - You are doing everything you can to provide a stable and loving home for Z.  And you are doing a GOOD job with it.

Hang in there.....  and yeah - we miss you!!!!  Consider dropping back in?

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dsm - 35; DH - 39; SD - 16; LO - 10; BB - 3
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3 Cheap Entertainment cats - Sam,  Snoop & Dagger
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Live, Love, and Laugh
Title: RE: ((((Amy)))
Post by: Amy_in_MA on Jul 28, 2006, 10:20:32 AM
Thanks DSM...I really do try to remind myself that Zachary is doing ok...but sometimes I'm not sure of that, you know? I need that reality check of what "normal" is for a child his age because I just don't know.

Edited to add: I do appreciate and read your emails.

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Dream lofty dreams, and as you dream, so shall you become. Your vision is the promise of what you shall one day be; your ideal is the prophecy of what you shall at last unveil.

     ~ James Allen
Title: Wow. your ex never ceases to amaze me.
Post by: BelleMere on Jul 28, 2006, 03:57:35 PM
Amy first of all I just wanted to give you a big hug and let you know I miss hearing from you on the boards!! (((AMY))))

Secondly, I don't really know what to say to all this - I wish I had something useful to offer but I really don't. It's so the reverse of everything I've ever really dealt with. I do know a thing or two about kids and grief, tho, and unfortunately all I can say about that is you are absolutely right about how wrong it is of his Dad to do this now, of all times, like it's EVER right.

So I don't know. See how it plays out. And see what your counselor advises. Take some time with it. Of course, that puts you in the position of having to make up an excuse for him, but really I would just go with "I don't know why Dad couldn't make it this weekend" and see if maybe there is some change before the next go round. And yes he is an asshole.
Title: RE: Wow. your ex never ceases to amaze me.
Post by: Amy_in_MA on Jul 28, 2006, 04:47:21 PM
Well, it did actually get worked out for this weekend. I don't think he realizes just who it is he's punishing when he says things like "I just won't pick him up at all then". In his anger, he says stuff like this...but he doesn't seem to give a thought at all as to who that would hurt.

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Dream lofty dreams, and as you dream, so shall you become. Your vision is the promise of what you shall one day be; your ideal is the prophecy of what you shall at last unveil.

     ~ James Allen
Title: RE: Wow. your ex never ceases to amaze me.
Post by: msme on Aug 19, 2006, 08:57:03 PM
Amy, I am an old timer around here but haven't been on much cuz things have been low key until recently. (for a peek, check my post on the fathers board) My son's ex has done some incredibly stupid & vicious things things over the years. One way we dealt with answering the kids questions was to teach a philosophy of choices.

We talked about how everything we do involves choices. From simple things like what kind of cereal to eat for breakfast to more complex things like choosings to follow rules so that we do not get into trouble. You can give some examples like choosing to pick up his toys when he is done playing with them so that he doesn't loose TV time for making a mess. Stuff like that. whatever happens in his life.

Then we go on to tell them that everyone makes poor choices sometimes. That does not make them a bad person, it just makes them a person who has made a poor choice. Then give some examples of some poor choices he has made recently & ask him what a better choice would have been. Explain that we cannot make anyone make good choices. We can only hope that they do.

When his dad does something stupid, you will be able to honestly say that it seems that he may not have made the best choice. You don't know why he made that choice but he can ask him the next time he talks to him. That way, it lets you off the hook & it puts things on a level he can deal with.

Hope this helps. You sound like a great mom who everyone loves. My condolences on the loss of your mother.
You never get a second chance to make a first impression!