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Main Forums => Second Families => Topic started by: dipper on Feb 27, 2005, 09:49:10 PM

Title: How to deal
Post by: dipper on Feb 27, 2005, 09:49:10 PM
Hi, I honestly came into the blended situation totally naive.  I have two children and while I get upset with my ex for ignoring our children and for not paying support, I dont fight with him.  I dont do things to be mean to him - and he doesnt to me either.  Now, I had realized that dh and his ex were still connected to anger, but I had no idea the impact this would have on our lives.....

His ex moved right before we married.  He went from seeing his son half the time, to six days a month.  The woman acts like I am her worst enemy - always has.  I met her before I was even dating dh - their son was with me and she ignored me when I tried to speak to her.  I tried to talk to her one time -and she was rude and bossy - and I flew off.  Told her lawyer I was mad because she gets child support - total BS!  She will do anything to pull yss away from dh.  And she will, in my opinion, destroy yss to do it.  Court was in January and I stressed for five months (since our marriage) helping dh prepare and dealing with it all.  YSS had said he wanted to live here - he is 13.  A month before court, bm's employees start buying yss gifts and hanging out with him constantly.  He thinks he is cool, he has 20 and 30 year old buddies that buy him expensive things.  He turned on us - and here we are in debt to a lawyer.  

I decided that was it.  I detached myself from that turmoil.  When he is here, I treat him fine, though I have come to realize that I dont look at him that much anymore.  I know he was bought, but he is old enough to know that as well.  He has behavior problems, we got counseling for him, but his mother said he didnt have to go.  He is learning disabled and his last grades were awful.  This coming Thursday a decision will be handed down - he either stays in school with restrictions: he has to do home tutoring, or he has to go to an alternative school.  

I think his mother is the worst excuse for a mother I have ever known.  She had him hanging with her buddies to keep him there - and these are people that are convicted felons - and one has been arrested this month for grand larceny.  She lies constantly - in court all she said were lies.  She ignores the court order.  She doesnt discipline yss.  She is not paying her rent - but she buys him goodies all the time.  She can make a friend so easily and yet she is the most evil person I know.  She does things just to irritate dh, like demanding an hour difference in anything dh says....she only dates guys that are druggies...doesnt help yss with homework or even try to get him to do it.....

YSS steals.  The last I knew was 11 packs of $5 yugi-oh cards from his mom's store.  He had new spike bracelets from his mom this weekend.  He also had a linkin park wallet and a spinner belt buckle.  He claimed those newbies came from classmates but dh didnt beleive him.  DH thinks he stole the items.   The mom's take on stealing -all kids do it.  He cannot clean himself when he goes to the bathroom.  He overpours everything he drinks.....

I am so tired of this woman's lies and games.  I have even wanted dh to stop seeing yss just to have this entire turmoil out of our lives.  But, dh of course isnt going to do that.  And I know I wouldnt give up my children either.

I had decided to take the stance of 'look how the children we raise turn out'.  Dh's oldest son has lived with dh since parents divorced, he has graduated, has a car, his own place to live and works two jobs.  He eats dinner with us often.  My two girls are honor roll students and would get hysterical if they were to get in any real trouble in school.....I dont mean to compare to anyone but in my own head, so that I could feel better.

But, recently I feel myself being pulled back in.  When bm didnt bring yss until 8:30 friday night when she had been in town for over two hours eating out with friends......after telling her lawyer she couldnt make it here any earlier than 7 because of her work schedule...

tired of this woman yanking our chains.  Her being in control of times.  DH is tired of hearing yss constantly say I want, I want....because he is so used to getting goodies now.  All the kid thinks about is what he can get.  

I love my dh - but I dont like the way I feel because of his ex.....

Title: Same situation
Post by: TwoBoys on Mar 01, 2005, 07:45:24 AM
Only were just in the beginning.

Were getting married in less than a month, and his sons mother is the same way.  And their son is only 19 months.  We already have so many problems, its ridiculous.

And most of them sound a lot like this.  Im afraid of it because even with a barely 2 yr old, we dont have any behavior problems, but she does.  He now has 4 decayed teeth from her giving him sweets, a bottle at night, and letting him carry juice around in a bottle all day.  It takes abuot a day of him at our house to get him out of his old habits.  Hes used to being able to point and whine for anythign with her, with us he speaks, with her he doesnt.  She is amazedthat every time he comes back to her, hes talking away, and then he stops after a day of being wiht her.  She of course says that we stunted his progress, that his visit with us traumatizes him.

She continually tells him im "bad" and daddys "bad" and she gets angry if we show him any affection.

Its a mess.  She constantly yells and screams at fiance in front of their son, telling him hes a jerk, how he ruined her life, burned all of her dreams of a perfect family, etc.

Its a mess.  All i can say is i can empathize.

I keep hoping that as time goes by, shell get better, but its been almost two years (they were already split up when she found out she was pg), and nothing has changed, it only gets worse and worse.

Title: Ditto...
Post by: onedaddy on Mar 01, 2005, 09:54:24 AM
Title: RE: Ditto...
Post by: TwoBoys on Mar 01, 2005, 10:08:03 AM
Its so sad to see all of these situations.  

I know with us, its been very hard for me.  When DH's son was smaller, we bonded easily, he absolutely adored me.  As he gets older, he soaks in more of what his mother says, and it makes everything so mcuh harder.  He doesnt come to me as easily.  I have to fight like hell to be liked.  He is clingy, she has already said she coddles him and tries to spoil him so itll make it hard on us.  He sees DH so rarely that he just clings to him most of the time.  

He absolutely adores my son, who is 6, and even that is becoming harder.  BM says that my son is evil, mean, and to be careful of him.  Hes 6 for crying out loud!  its a mess.  I could probably even understand if shed ever met my son, and thought he was a holy terror or something, wild and unruly, but shes never even met him.  I dont think shes ever even barely seen him except in passing (seeing him in the back seat for a spare second as we leave the exchange point).

Sigh... who knows.

Ive helped DH fight like hell for almost 2 yrs now to see his son, but now were shelling out thousands of dollars every couple of months, and of our 3 or 4 days a month of visitation, we have to spend the entire time undoing what shes done the other days of the month.  Usually only takes a day or so, but when we get him friday ngiht and have to return him sun afternoon, its hard.

And of course, we have our own problems now as a result, including hte financial strain.


Title: RE: Ditto...
Post by: onedaddy on Mar 01, 2005, 12:05:58 PM
I grew up as part of a step-family.  I guess I knew there was some animosity but we NEVER saw.  We attended the same events and everyone was cordial to each.  Heck we all lived in the same neighborhood just to keep the relationship.  I never experienced this bull.  I just can't imagine how these kids are going to come out okay.  They are told not to hug or kiss me, not to tell their daddy they love him. At 3 my ss was afraid of us because his grandmother said "your daddy is a mother f***er" over and over and over.  Sometimes when DH is on the phone with them BM or her sister or her mother takes the phone from their hands and hangs up.  Their wonderful SF took the phone out of SD's hand and in front of both of them told DH he was going to "f*** him with his fist."  They constantly threaten DH with jail, se files false reports and tells them.  We  had it ordered they attend therapy and even then were forced to file a contempt.  Now they go, we even bring them 1x a month and all we hear are lies.  How can they get any hel[p if they go in and lie to her.
Everyone listens to this crazy b**** because SHE IS THE MOTHER!

It's hard not to want to give up.
Title: RE: Ditto...
Post by: TwoBoys on Mar 02, 2005, 06:51:23 AM
I wish i knew some advice to give, but if i did, wed take it ourselves!  

We face the same thing.  Weve tried calling just to SS can hear his dads voice, but it really only makes it worse.  She says "SS - PHONE!" and he of course, being 19 months old, doesnt come to the phone, he asks her to please tell him that its his daddy, she has a cuople of times int he past, and he immediately comes to the phone, but i think thats why she doesnt do it now.  She says "I cant stand having to tell my son that YOURE his father, so NO im NOT saying that, nothing in the court order says i have to".  And even when there are things in the court order, she says "no judge is going to tell ME how to behave".

She tells ss his daddy is a b*st*rd, im a wh*re, we ruined their lives, and constantly accuses us of abuse.  The physical abuse allegations slowed down a lot, because we finally said "fine, if you have proof of abuse, please, we are concerned for his well being, take a picture of any bruises, and file charges, and let them prove it. " that shut her up... she knew there was no abuse and i guess was trying to scare us into not exercising visitation.

we get psychotic emails all the time, her claiming shell fight tooth and nail to keep him from us, and that shell do whatever necessary to make sure visitation ends one day.

Its a mess.  Its hard, and its already affecting him and his relationship with this father, and me, and the rest of the family.

Even the ones hes the closest with - as soon as she finds out he has any kind of relationship with anyone in H's family, she starts the crusade against them.  And worse - her mother is all for it and helps her out.  Its a mess.  Her sister and father have shown a little sympathy for us, but apparantly not enough to knock some sense into the mother. :(

I wish i had an answer for a way to at least bring it to a halt, if not undo all the damage thats been done all around.  To top it off, were paying a fortune, and it just keeps happening.  Im afraid well have spent $50k by the time the child is grown, and as a result of her doings, he wont even want anything to do with us.  

Title: RE: Ditto...Two Boys
Post by: dipper on Mar 02, 2005, 01:49:53 PM
It helps just to know others go through this - misery loves company or whatever.  Its just being understood.  goodness, last year before we got married, dh and his ex had went to court.  Dh couldnt afford a lawyer and her lawyer treated him like dirt - even bringing up stuff that legally could not be brought up.  I wrote a letter to the editor about the mistreatment of fathers in the court system......this was brought up in court against us.  Saying I had did something that yss could have read - excuse me, but yss has the capacity of less than a third grader - he could not have read this.  And no one here read it to him - and they were far away from here.  One of her friends faxed her a copy - now, how did this friend know me?  I wasnt married, hadnt did a public announcement of our engagement and am a very private person overall.  BM had to be talking about me - full name and all to this person who I still wouldnt know if I saw her....

Yes, bm has used my children as a defensive - saying we think my children are little angels and put down on yss.  YSS steals - all kids steal.  Yss fondles - he has hormones.  We are awful for thinking he has problems.

I feel for you and your dh.  Atleast with yss, he was 9 when parents split up.  But, he is learning disabled and is easily taken advantage of.  She acts like his best buddy, not his mom.  He is like the 'husband' since she doesnt have a guy right now.  IN your situation, bm is able to manipulate since birth.......

It does take a toll on a relationship when so much focus and anxiety is place out there.  And the financial stress - I have a real hard time not holding that against yss.........dh only went to court because yss said he wanted to live here.  He was asked several times before court if its what he truly wanted.  Then day of court, he is on the phone with his and his mom's buddies laughing and hooting it up......and telling us about all the goodies he is going to get....  Its hard to remember he is a pawn in this and not resent what he put us through...
Title: RE: Ditto...Two Boys
Post by: wendl on Mar 04, 2005, 06:12:47 AM
Welcome to being a stepparent.  These mothers are so fricking insecure that they need drama in their lives to think they have control and they will if you let them.

Since they themselves are not happy they try and make you and dh unhappy, I personally won't subject myself to the lovely ex.  

My stepkids are great however after court, bm said some stuff to them and they wouldn't talk to me (after 4yrs of talking to me then nothing) dh talked to them and things got back to normal.

When they arrive at our home they are in dirty clothing and stink, it usually takes them a day to adjust to our house and our rules, but after that the weekends go great.  

We do what we can, I treat my ss's like I treat my son, no special attention all the kids deserves the same not more or less.

so as a stepparent we learn to juggle, we learn to try to help the children. I know my stepkids used to always say mom go this and that, but you know what when they get older they WILL NOT remember who bought what they will remember who did what with them, camping, fishing etc not the material things that some CP's purchased to buy their love.

Love is not purchased its given from the heart. It is free and does not cost and goes a lot farther later in life then the new video game.

My parents divorced when I was 8 and you know what I know my mom purchased me things, but I can't remember what they were, I DO remember camping, boating etc with my dad and going to a fair in Canada with my mom.

**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**
Title: RE: Ditto...Two Boys
Post by: backwardsbike on Mar 05, 2005, 01:45:46 PM

I just had to chime in here with my .02.  I am going thru all the same stuff you are.  There is one difference though.  I AM the bio mom. Ex won the custody eval and took the kids.  They did it by making my Dh out to be a child molester.  He and I both have clean child abuse clearances.  We were honest about the problems in our family.  Dh is Bi Ploar and has now been diagnosed and is under treatment.  He is stable and a wonderful father to our own two kids.  No one ever filed a child line.  No therapist and there has been a boat load of them.  No evaluator and we've had two.  I had to have a forensic eval of myself to prove to the judge that I'm not crazy.  In fac,t I am a psychiatric nurse with a BS degree in rehabilitation with a minor in psychology.  And Dh had to have a separate eval saying he could be alone with the two NC kids for more than one hour without supervision!  During this time he was doing all the daycare for our two kids while I worked.

The main perpertrator is the SM.  I do not understand why she would do this.  I don't even know her.  I tried to be friendly with her when they got together.  I even invited her into our mediation.  She left in a huff when after weeks of her high handed attitude and disrespect the mediator said, " But they aren't YOUR children."

I have read an excellent book called Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak.  I would recommend it to anyone going thru this.  It has proved helpful to me.

Thanks for listeneing.  If nothing else you now know that alienation works in reverse too.  Bm's do become the trgets, sometimes.
Title: RE: Ditto...Two Boys
Post by: dipper on Mar 07, 2005, 08:38:49 AM
Backwardsbike, I am sure it happens in reverse many times.  I dont know why people do this - I am going into human services, so I have had many psychology classes.  I guess some of it boils down to insecurity, as another poster pointed out.  I try to remember that I wouldnt want anyone telling me how to raise my children, as we are all different......

In this case, yss is being hurt by the way he is raised - and I would go into this further as he has just been kicked out of school until his IEP team can decide whether to let him back in or make him go to another said she would consider meds, but not counseling.  He has ADHD - but he is not hyper.  He is the most calm child you ever saw.  His problem is impulse control and he does not think at all about the consequences.....which dh and I feel would be helped more by counseling or even a combination of the two.  However, according to yss, she just told the school she was reconsidering meds, she really hasnt made any attempt to set up an appt.....

I feel for you -whichever side you are on, its awful and it can destroy your life if you let it....make you anger, bitter.

My dh and I had problems because of the stress, then I released it and life was so much better for us all, now with the current problems at school and dh once again considering fighting for custody, I have been trying to help him investigate and I have been stressed again and feel myself getting miserable and its almost obsessed.....I told dh last night - I cant do this, I value our relationship and my relationship with my children too much....

Title: RE: Ditto...Two Boys
Post by: backwardsbike on Mar 07, 2005, 12:07:57 PM

I really feel for the child.  Impulse control disorder is so difficult.  the poor kids doesn't want to behave badly.  they really just can't t help it.

I am a psychiatric nurse.  I worked in a residential treatment facility.  I have cared for many kids with poor impulse control and impulse control sidorder.  Meds can help.  But that help is so limited without counseling to help these kids learn cognitive strategies to deal with their lack of control.  Meds now -a - days are a world apart from whay they used to be.  But they aren't a magic bullet.  Has the child had an evluation by a mental health professional?  
Title: RE: Ditto...mental eval
Post by: dipper on Mar 07, 2005, 07:41:52 PM

I know my yss doesnt want to be bad, but it is so frustrating when all he gives is an 'I dont know' to things.    DH had him in counseling, but it wasnt doing any good - the licensed counselor was not able to evaluate him.  Well, bm loved this woman - she had her snowballed.....So, when dh removed him and got an actual psychologist, bm stopped all involvement.  The psychologist wanted to do a full work up and we got the teachers to fill out forms and we did questionnaires, but bm would not.  The psychologist wanted another to do the actual testing on yss, but he would have to be there most of the day - meaning missing school.......and since he is with bm on school days - well, the judge in January talked to yss for less than five minutes and decided that yss didnt need medication.  BM stated in court that yss didnt want to go to counseling, she saw no need for it, and that no one was making him go if he didnt want to.  According to the statement from a school official, she has stated that she has not reconsidered counseling.

The original counselor had leaned toward conduct disorder, but filed it as adjustment disorder with a disturbance in conduct.  The psychologist was withholding any label until he could get all results in......

YSS was on medication for ADHD and his behavior was pretty much the same.  He got in fights, vandalized, stole, lied........he is always extremely calm at home.   His mother made the sole decision to take him off meds.  His behavior has worsened but I think it may be more the circumstances than the lack of drugs.  

DH is on the road now as he took yss home....and I have to tell him when he gets here that yss lied to him again.  YSS had some 'nice' goodies when he came a couple of weeks ago and stated that school friends had given him two of them.  DH didnt believe him - but yss came up with names.  DH asked the principal to question the students - and they know nothing about the, either yss got the gifts from someone he knows dh and I dont approve of ( like the lady arrested for grand larceny, or the 26 year old druggie) or he stole them.....

I love the child and I want what is best for him.  Unfortunately, we cant afford a lawyer again so soon and I dont think there is any hope without a good lawyer.  Also, I think yss would be a very high maintenance child on a full time basis and it is alot to consider in itself....

Thank you for your input - and please let me know if there is anything you can see that we could be doing......
Title: RE: Ditto...mental eval
Post by: TwoBoys on Mar 08, 2005, 11:43:09 AM
I just had time to catch up.

We had SS for the weekend, adn it went great with a few (normal) exceptions.

For the first time, ever, he got in the car, pointed at me, tried to call me by my real name (which he doesnt normally call me) and started crying and going "no no no no", and then started crying "mama mama mama, baba baba, baba".

he has NEVER cried for his mom, never cried when approaching me, and never asked us for a baba (bottle).

We were lectured when he was 14 months old that he was to only get a sippy cup during the day.  We immediatley throw out the bottles, switch to sippy cups, and now shes demaning that he get a bottle.  (hes be 2 in 3 months).  He also has 4 decayed teeth i think that i mentioned, from being given a bottle at night and too much juice in a bottle during the day.  Shes now saying he  gets a bottle whenever he asks for one, and that we are depriving him and traumatizing him and neglecting him by not giving him a bottle when he asks for it - that he NEEDS it (this is after strict demands by the pediatric dentist to NOT give him one).  Shes also refusing ot have the decay treated, but she did finally have one filled when she tried taking him to a dentist that told her his tooth was so soft in one spot it was giving in when he pushed on it.

His teeth have already eroded and are now about half the size they used to be and are brown.

She called this weekend during breakfast, asked what we were feeding him and we told her cheerios.  She said we didnt know what we were doing, or what he liked, adn we should know that he likes cocoa krispies (uh... he has FOUR DECAYED TEETH!).

Sigh... its hopeless.

Ive tried everything to be nice, to be cordial, i just try to stay out of it now.  Now shes trying to accuse us of harassment (for calling to check on SS once every couple of days, yet if we go more than 3 or 4 days without calling then we get nasty voicemails).  And shes using that as why we should pay her 10k in attys fees from the past year of this battle.

Im worn out.

We get married in 3 weeks, she doesnt know the wedding is this month - she thinks its in 2 months, so hopefullly things will be smooth for the wedding at least.

Title: RE: Ditto...mental eval
Post by: Kitty C. on Mar 08, 2005, 02:38:27 PM
Under NO circumstances do you allow her to find out when you're getting married!  BTW, it wouldn't happen to be on a weekend that you have him, is it?  Hope you were able to plan it that way.  Congratulations!

This lady is certifiably nutzo, especially in regards to his teeth and what he eats or drinks.  She also fails to realize that destruction of the supernumaries NOW can even have an impact on the perms, cuz if the situation is allowed to get bad enough, those teeth could be rotting even before they erupt.  This child is in for a world of hurt and pain inflicted  by her neglect and abuse.  If you ever get a chance to take him to a ped. dentist, 'remind' him/her that they are mandatory reporters and that this is certainly a form of abuse.
Title: RE: Ditto...mental eval
Post by: fight4ss on Mar 08, 2005, 04:45:57 PM
Hey - - I'm new around here but I'm in the same boat.

Do NOT let BM find out when the wedding is. We scheduled out wedding on a weekend that we had SS and she tried everything to keep him that weekend.

My SS had started this "tic" (on purpose) that got him some attention from us. We asked him about it and he did it only when he was watching TV or talking to us. Not when he ate, slept, played, etc. We asked BM about this and she said that we were crazy and that we must be doing something to him to make him do it because he certainly didn't do it with her. Uhm, okay.

Two days before the wedding, she calls - "I'm going to FL for the weekend and I think I should keep SS because he started doing that tic thing in his sleep. I'm afraid he's having seizures and I don't want to leave him with you."

Now wait, you're worried about him having seizures but you want to take him to FL?

So DH tells BM maybe you should stay here and not go to FL then if you're that worried. We'll take him with us the day of the wedding and drop him back off with you after it's over.


Sheesh -

She went to FL without SS though. I guess partying was more fun than pretending to be concerned about SS.

Good luck you guys.

I'm learning to just stay away from BM at all costs. The more interaction I have with her, the more she puts SS in the middle.

Sorry I rambled... I could go on and on and on and on.....
Title: RE: Ditto...mental eval
Post by: TwoBoys on Mar 09, 2005, 07:13:31 AM
No way on earth are we telling her when the wedding is.  She thinks its in may.  It originally was.  She started her crap about it months ago.  Shes denied us visitation repeatedly, and still denies us makeup visitation.  So... when my fiance had a business trip that was supposed to interfere, we decided to move it up and not back.  And of course, we moved it to a weekend when were supposedto have him.  In fact, its in 2 1/2 weeks, and thats when our next visitation is (we just had him this past weekend).

Our stipulation specifically states that we are to receive him for one week during the fathers day period.  Fathers day falls on a sunday.  So we requested to get him Sunday morning, through the following sunday morning (one week).  

Her attorney has sent a letter stating that he will NOT get him that week, that he will have him when she says he will, because shes taking him on vacation for his birthday (in other words, shes taking him out of the state so we cant attned his birthday activities, which the SPA specifically states that our attendance is to be encouraged).

So... I dont know what to do about this.  June is just around the corner, and she has stated, through a letter from her attorney, that we will not get him when we requested it.  

Sigh, its a mess.  She does this with everyhting.  She suggests a week, well agree, shell change her mind.  I guess its just too easy if we agree right away.

So... yeah, no way on earth will we let her know about the wedding.  The other thing is - the court order specifically states that I am allowed to do all exchanges after we are married.  SHes going to love that one.

I dont htink she realizes that it says that.

Shell find out soon im sure.

Title: RE: Ditto...mental eval
Post by: Kboeds on Mar 09, 2005, 10:30:19 AM
I just wanted to say I understand what all of you are going through.

I also knew what I was getting into when I met and married dh, we were not able to have his 3 younger children at our wedding because he was still going to court just to gain vsitation of them. My husband has 3 older children who were BM's when he married her and he adopted them. The oldest SD attended the wedding and we had a part of the ceremony were we all, dh, me, my dd's and sd stood together at the alter, and after mentioning the other 5 kids that couldn't be in attendance, a prayer was said about the joining of two families, and that on that day we would become one family. We video taped the wedding and after dh won his visitation request, we had the kids to TX for 2 weeks and they got to see the tape. They were disappointed that they did not get to attend, but you could see the joy in their eyes when they heard their names mentioned in our ceremony. They ask us to play that part again.

BM told kids that dh wasn't their dad anymore and that they were to call him by his first name. She told the kids that he was their old dad and that he left,(after she divorced him)  so now her b/f was their new dad. (that was 4 years ago) Dh and I told the kids that he is now and will always be their dad! Two ysd's are both adopted and the youngest went to dh one day and said "are you my real dad?" dh said I am your dad and I always will be" BM jumped all over him and told him not to EVER tell the kids that again. She said they are very confused about being adopted and that she has told them that he is not their dad cause they are adopted. BM told kids he is only their dad legally cause the judge says. but he is not their real dad. Dh and I told kids again, as soon as dad adopted you, he became your dad and he will always be your dad just as much as Bio-son's dad. When the kids called him by his first
name he wouldn't answer them, not until they called him dad. They finally realized that he is not going to let BM replace him so easily like she has told the kids he would.

What dh and I have done is acknowledged what the kids go through and tell them what we will do to make it easier on them, but that when we do (_____) this is what we are really saying. Kind of like a code. We told the kids that when BM or OSS tell them that dad doesn't love them, don't agrue with them. (the kids were fighting a loosing battle trying to defend him. OSS would and still will punish them if they say they love their dad.) We said when they tell you that, this is what I want you to say to yourself. My dad said when they say he doesn't love me, Dad is saying he really does. We told them don't say it out loud, we don't want you to get in trouble. Just know in your heart that Daddy does love you very much. When dh calls to talk to the kids, if BM or OSS are there, they keep the conversation very short and won't say they love or miss him. Dh ask bio son why and he said that they get in trouble if the want to talk to him or say they love him. Dh said you know that is wrong..right and son said yes. So, dh told son, if they are there and you can't talk, I will know it is because you don't want to get into trouble. I don't want you to get into trouble either. I will just tell you I love you and if you say OK then that will be telling me you love me too... okay and his son said yes.

Point being we are trying to take the pressure off the kids. We are not bad mouthing BM or OSS, simply acknowledging we know what is going on and that we want to make things easier on them. dh is not going to make a seen about them not talking when he knows they are the ones that will suffer from it. The kids know if they take things home from our house that what ever it is will be taken away from them. So we always give them the option of taking things home or not. 99% of the time the kids say, they don't want to take things home cause they don't want to get in trouble or have them taken away. So we let them leave there things here for their next visit.

This is getting really long to I will stop now.. but I have many more examples of things that have happened and how we handled it. There was a time when dh and I thought having a good relationship with his children would be impossible because of the actions of their bm and oss, but now we know there is hope.

Title: RE: Ditto...mental eval
Post by: TwoBoys on Mar 09, 2005, 11:48:15 AM
How old are the 3 younger ones?

Our biggest concern is that ss is not even two yet, and hes been around me since he was 2 months old, but at the same time, her crusade against us has been going on just as long.

And now, its starting to really show when we first pick him up.  Maybe im overreacting, becuase im still bothered by it - its only happened once (the last time we picked him up).

And it is really hard b/c he absolutely adores me 30 minutes later, but it is so hard knowing that this is only the beginning.

Title: RE: Ditto...mental eval
Post by: Kboeds on Mar 09, 2005, 06:18:35 PM
The younger ones are now 8, 9 and 12 but we started seeing them in 2001 after their dad had not seen them for two years. BM had already had a two year head start on the process before dh started getting visitation with them.
When we first started going and seeing the kids, they called me girlfriend number 7. When dh told them not to call me that, they said that is what mom calls her. BM was doing all she could to turn the kids against both of us.

We took the kids away from the house several times crying and screaming for their mother. Then shortly afterwards they would be fine. One thing you need to understand is that kids have to live with their parent. If they go home and bm finds out they had a good time, then they get in trouble or they have to spend hours or days defending themselves or the other parent, it only leads to serious problems with the kids. I have found that as a survival technique it is better for the kids to go home and say they had a bad time or cry when it is time to go so that mom won't get upset with them for enjoying themselves. That  makes BM happy and she will then coddle them and give them positive attention instead of the negative.

Your ss is picking up on this already at his young age. BM will complain that every time you and dh pick him up he cries, but in all honesty she loves it. Just put him in the car and go about your business. If she sees that it is having the desired effect, she will only do it more. Let her and ss see that you and dh are not going to allow their behavior affect your time with him.

Don't treat him any different then you did before! If you try extra hard then he will learn that the behavior is benefiting him on both sides. As he gets older you can try some of what I mentioned earlier.
"Your mommy is mad at me and daddy and that is ok"... sometimes grown ups get mad at each other for a long time, but we all love you and we don't want you to think that you are in trouble.
Remind him that no matter what he hears at home, daddy and you love him and that he should hold that in his heart.

Take a deep breath and ready yourself for the ride.

Title: Your my hero!
Post by: onedaddy on Mar 11, 2005, 06:03:02 AM
WOW the 2 of youreally got things right!  Those are lucky kids.

But it is hard. It is hard when you have to answer to everyone and you've done nothing wrong.  Whe you are not entitled to make the littlest mistake without the GAL and therapist and 2 lawyers come at you.  When every single decision you make is scrutinized  and you must defend your reasoning for everything.  Because even though the kids have a great time with us the tell their mommy that we treat them terribly and they are afraid of us.  She makes them call the therapist and the GAL and tell this to the evaluators and probably the judge one day.  They are taught to lie to us and everyone else.  Therapy is useless because they believe BM and if we say they are saying what they are told to we are mudsliging.
Our life is hell fir doing the right thing and these kids are going to be in deep trouble  
Title: RE: Your my hero!
Post by: TwoBoys on Mar 11, 2005, 09:13:06 AM
Luckily, our ss isnt old enuogh to talk yet, so I am afraid of what is yet to come, if its already that bad.  L ucky for us, the one time weve had to face the judge he was understanding of our side, and actually ripped the BM a new one.  Basically, she flew him to us one friday, he came to us with a fever, no other symptoms.  Over the weekend, he was cranky, but the fever was manageable with motrin.  We called his pediatrician, who said that if there was nothing but a fever, not to bring him in, not to bring him to the ER, that he would be fine, until there were symptoms to treat, theres not much to do, and as long as we were giving him motrin and keeping the fever managable, thats about all they could do.

We met her halfway on sunday, she demanded we return him right then and there (early), he had stopped taking a bottle that morning, and was fussy in the car, but had slept good the night before, she took him home, immediately took him to the ER, had him seen by her brother who is a dr (how convenient), and of course, his life was in danger.  Not really of course, he was dehydrated b/c he wouldnt take a bottle, and all they did was give him fluid and motrin.  SHe basically tried ot say that we made him sick, that it was our fault, etc.  

Now, come our next visitation, he had a fever and she said he couldnt possibly travel, got drs orders from her brother that he was not to travel until the condition improved.  The day we were supposed to get him he had no fever, and she still refused to bring him.  Yet, it was perfectly ok, in fact it was REQUIRED that we travel to brin ghim to her when he was sick.  Yeah, ok.

She took it in front of hte judge, trying to make us get supervised visitation b/c of that.  The judge laughed in her face basically and said she had no more parenting experience than we did, in fact less depending on how you look at it (i have a 6 yr old), and that all parents live and learn.  The child getting a cold was no fault of ours and was no reason to order supervised visits.  She then tried the whole "he has seperation anxiety" tactic.  He told her that she had no way of knowing if he was having a hard time seperating from her or if maybe it was really the child had a hard time seperating from his father when she moved 8 hours away.  That if she was concerned about seperation anxiety she wouldnt have removed him from his father.  And he ended it with telling her that she was the one that seemed to be displaying symptoms of seperation anxiety, and her problems were not his concern, so she should get over it.

Hopefully it will continue to go this way.  Our only problem is its costing us a fortune, and shes trying to get us to pay her legal fees.  Why we should have to pay each time she feels like pulling something is beyond me.

But, im afraid of what all her ranting and raving will do to our relationship with ss.  :(

The worst part, if anyone ever had a good reason to bad mouth a NCP, it would be me with my Oldest sons father.  And still, despite the things hes done, I would NEVER ever mention it or bad mouth him in front of my son.  I know that b/c he really is just that bad, that my son will have no problem coming tothat conclusion all on his own.  

In the meanwhile, all we can do is try to make the most of the little time we do get to spend with our kids.

Title: RE: Your my hero!
Post by: Kboeds on Mar 11, 2005, 04:45:47 PM
Okay.. I thought about this while typing my last post, but felt it was getting too long so I didn't mention it.

Onedaddy, we have had the same problem with dh kids going home and saying that we did something mean to them. BM complaining and saying that the kids have told the school, the councelors, Dr. etc... and that she was going to make sure the judge knew so that we wouldn't get to see the kids anymore.
(remember the survival technique I mentioned in my earlier post.?)

So, sk's were going home and telling BM that we did things we either didn't do, or making things we did do sound really bad. Such as saying that dad punished him for being a bed wetter,..etc.. etc..
When this has happened, this is what dh did...  for kids who can talk and reason this has worked for us.

Dh with SS...
DH ; did you tell your school and your mom that I punished you for being a bed wetter and you didin't want to come see me anymore?  

SS; No

DH; mom said you told her and the school that, so was mom being dishonest with me or are you afraid to tell me.

SS; shrugs

DH; you know I have never punished you for being a bed wetter..

SS; yes you have...

DH; when..

SS; refers to a visit when he got in trouble for wetting his pull up when he was awake and watching TV..

DH; Your right, I got upset with you for that, and if it happened again I would get upset again. You are too old to be wetting your pants when you are awake and I will not change my mind about that. I did not punish you, I told you that was unacceptable and that if it happened again you would be punished. And that was not about bed wetting.  

Dh; Do you want to stop seeing me?
SS;  No
DH;  Do you know that when you tell mom and the school that I did things to you that aren't true, they can make the judge say you can't see me anymore.

SS; no  (Keep in mind, he doesn't know BM's agenda, he is just trying to get ice-cream)

Dh; well they can, and I don't want that.. so if you are truly upset about something I said or did to you then I want you to come talk to me and see if we can work it out first. Okay?

SS okay..

DH and SS... lots of hugs and I love you Bud!!!

We have not heard any complaints from mom since that conversation.  We have had talks about things that have happened that he feels are unfair. We have followed through with him talking to us about the situation before he feels the need to run to mom.

Don't get me wrong here people... We have had hell dealing with all of this for the last 4 years and we still have a long way to go.  Like I said before, when something new comes up, we just try to figure out a way to calmly combat it.  

You said your children like the visits, so help them to understand that telling on you could get you taken away from them and that you really don't want that to happen. I don't know how old your kids are onedaddy, but maybe you and your children can come up with a list.. what are truly bad things mom, and doctor should be told about, and what are not bad things.
Truly bad thing.... Dad hit me and left a mark on my back!
Not a bad thing... I was getting my hand too close to the fire and dad hit my hand away from it.
(both could easily go back to mom or doctor as Dad Hit Me!!)
Once the kids have helped you make the list, maybe it will help them to not tell the doctor "dad hit me" because he kept the childs hand out of the fire. (Just an example)

Boy.. I'm really sorry that I keep saying so much in these post. This is something that is really close to my heart and it makes me sick that so many people have to deal with ex's like this.

I should really shut up now... I think I will change my name to jabber box..
Title: RE: Your my hero!
Post by: onedaddy on Mar 12, 2005, 09:10:23 AM
Firstly SD is 8 and ss is 5.  We are in counseling ourselves and she has told us to NEVER confront them.  That they are tellin BM what she wants to here and they are doing this to survive.  To tell them that we heard this and that from mmmy would be too scary.  Even though the kids know about everything because BM talks to them about court.  The counselor told us to never so much as say the word court or judge in their presence.  I agree with you confront them and explain even though I am pretty sure they understand most of this.  I am confused, I want DH so badly to be able to confront them and teach them it is wrong to lie, it is wrong to strtch the truth, sometime their actions are hurtful.  I want them to grow to be empathetic, something there BM lacks completely.

Title: You need to talk?
Post by: Kboeds on Mar 12, 2005, 12:46:53 PM
I feel bad using up dippers post on all of us. If you would like to chat more about this feel free to email me at I would love to chat with you, I know how frustrating it can me.