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Main Forums => General Issues => Topic started by: POC on Nov 01, 2004, 09:18:17 PM

Title: Lets' Set a New Agenda
Post by: POC on Nov 01, 2004, 09:18:17 PM
Whomever is elected president, governor, rep, senator, etc... let's put the pressure on them. Please ask reporters to start asking our newly elected/re-elected leaders, "In the absence of wrong-doing, do they believe that both parents should be allowed to share meaningful time with their kids?"

It's simple and to the point. It's really yes or no. They can make all the lame excuses they would like. We've heard them all before. If they want to talk about the small percentage of dads who abuse or neglect their kids, they are only reinforcing the absence of wrong-doing provision. If they want to talk about the small percentage of dads who don't want to see their kids, they are only reinforcing the "allowed to share" provision. Soon, all will be able to see if these "leaders" truly believe that both parents ought to be a meaningful part of their kids' lives, or not. Then, good moms that are NCP's will get the respect they deserve too.

Sooner or later, there will be a reporter who wants to make a name for him/herself!

Title: RE: Lets' Set a New Agenda
Post by: joni on Nov 01, 2004, 09:31:29 PM
there already is...Glenn Sacks, http://www.hisside.com.  Glenn's got many supporters on this board and with his national following, Glenn's been able to really draw some attention to important men's issues in addition to shared parenting.  you can listen to his radio program via the web at his site.

Title: RE: Lets' Set a New Agenda
Post by: POC on Nov 02, 2004, 06:18:35 AM
Joni,

like many others on this board, I too am a supporter of Glenn Sacks. But, if others do not lay ground work with reporters, Sacks will have little traction for this movement. If reporters think enough other people want to know the answer to something, they will ask the question - that's all they have to do.

That's the beauty of setting the agenda. If you get to ask the questions, it doesn't matter what the answer is.
Title: RE: Lets' Set a New Agenda
Post by: Davy on Nov 02, 2004, 11:54:50 AM
I agree substantially with any and all continuing efforts to force change  and hope for responses from this post.   Let's color outside the box !!

My long time vision is that we, as a culture, stop asking and start telling.
Dominating a new agenda would be an ATTITUDE SHIFT whereas attorneys and court rooms would be for extrordinary matters rather than the norm where government invites itself to interfere in the family unit and places children for sale.  

The entire concept would be to provide a foundation of human decency where parents would agree on all matters concerning the children.

AS AN EXAMPLE.  Does anybody think a uniform comprehensive one page parental agreement document could be devised and implemented nationally then managed by well balanced child focused parental assistance boards ??  

No politicians, no courts, no attorneys, no CPS workers, etc !!
Title: RE: Lets' Set a New Agenda
Post by: oklahoma on Nov 03, 2004, 10:39:07 AM
"No politicians, no courts, no attorneys, no CPS workers, etc !! "

But what about the loss of jobs!!!  :)

Title: Time to 'BRING IT ON!'
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Nov 03, 2004, 12:36:42 PM
I am more then willing to do what it takes!

Where do we start?

"Children learn what they live"
Title: RE: Time to 'BRING IT ON!'
Post by: POC on Nov 03, 2004, 04:44:22 PM
Good places to start are letters to the editor, legislative delegation meetings (will be coming up soon), websites of media outlets, and just about anyone else who might listen. You're only limited by your imagination. Just keep it simple. All of us are capable of putting together a dissertation about the matter. But, others don't care. I also don't recommend telling much, if anything at all about your personal situation. That only leads to the inevitable counterpoints of someone else's personal situation. From there, the conversation only digresses.

To the point, "In the absence of wrong-doing do these leaders believe that both parents should be a meaningful part of their kids' lives?" As their constituents, we deserve to know if and how they intend to formulate this belief into public policy. If they have no intention to do so, we deserve to know that too.
Title: RE: Time to 'BRING IT ON!'
Post by: Davy on Nov 03, 2004, 08:12:32 PM
POC; please consider :

"Good places to start are letters to the editor, legislative delegation meetings (will be coming up soon), websites of media outlets, and just about anyone else who might listen. You're only limited by your imagination".

Every bit helps but like efforts have been accomplished over many years by many individuals and groups and very little has been accomplished.
 
" Just keep it simple."

Absolutely !

"All of us are capable of putting together a dissertation about the matter. But, others don't care. I also don't recommend telling much, if anything at all about your personal situation. That only leads to the inevitable counterpoints of someone else's personal situation. From there, the conversation only digresses."

Absolutely.  There are other places to vent and share experiences.  
In bizzard situations folks think you're lying/exaggerating and/or can't identify with the situation because one has to live it.  Hell, I saw, heard, and experienced and I don't even believe it.  

"To the point, "In the absence of wrong-doing do these leaders believe that both parents should be a meaningful part of their kids' lives?""

In the absence of wrong-doing BS is a big part of the problem.  Moreover you're ASKING for a response to a question that practically everybody will affirm.  

"As their constituents, we deserve to know if and how they intend to formulate this belief into public policy. If they have no intention to do so, we deserve to know that too."

As a constituent they respond to us.  We don't respond to them in matters concerning our children according to their belief systems and social policies that are clearly deplorable and unworkable.    Our objective NEEDS to be one that defines a functional policy for our children.  

I believe that happens by removing oneself from the issue and to focus on an objective.  The mechanics and details follow.
Title: I've got your back...
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Nov 03, 2004, 11:19:09 PM
POC, you have more experience then I do, just let us know the WHO, WHEN, WHERE...!

"Children learn what they live"
Title: RE: I've got your back...
Post by: POC on Nov 04, 2004, 05:48:33 AM
Where are you from, and if different, where are your kid(s) now?
Title: RE: Time to 'BRING IT ON!'
Post by: POC on Nov 04, 2004, 06:15:03 AM
>POC; please consider :

>Every bit helps but like efforts have been accomplished over
>many years by many individuals and groups and very little has
>been accomplished.

Consider that this issue was more than a huge rock, it was a mountain. Millions of dads were caught flat-footed, and lumped together will a very small percentage of dads and then labeled as dead-beats. But, in just the last couple of years, there have been victories. There have been unconstitutional rulings on child support. Iowa has passed equal parenting time legislation. California ex-governor, Gray Davis was repealed after he vetoed paternity fraud legislation. Since then CA has passed paternity fraud legislation. Joining CA has been Georgia, Maryland, Alabama and others. On Tuesday, 85% of Massachusetts voters voted in favor of a joint physical custody referendum. Yes, there is much to do. But, things were totally entrenched before. Now, there is some movement in our direction.


>In the absence of wrong-doing BS is a big part of the problem.
> Moreover you're ASKING for a response to a question that
>practically everybody will affirm.  

Geesh, now you're blaming me for structuring the quesiton in its proper conotation. Of course, they will agree. They are supposed to be shaking their heads yes before they respond. I don't care what their response is as long as I get to pick the question.

Ask yourself this, How assenine will they look if they negatively respond to the quesiton? Question 2, if affirmatively respond to the question, will the situation not be drastically improved?
Title: One other point to consider.............
Post by: Kitty C. on Nov 04, 2004, 09:16:25 AM
One comment I hear all the time is that two parents who are at each other's throats cannot effectively co-parent 50/50.  I tell them exactly what I told Gov. Vilsack, in my letter urging him to sign HF22.  If those same two parents walk into court KNOWING that the kids will NOT be fought over, it takes all the animosity right out of the situation.  Because the current judicial system is the one who has created the adversarial atmosphere........where NONE should exist in the first place.  There should be no 'winners' or 'losers' in divorce, only a division of property, a plan to co-parent, and a dissolution of the marriage contract.

I honestly think that the real key here is taking out that adversarial atmosphere in the judicial process.  Then there is NOTHING to fight for and you're only going to court to do it legally, since the marriage contract is legally binding and you have to undo it legally as well.

Just my thoughts........
Title: Agreed!
Post by: StPaulieGirl on Nov 04, 2004, 09:22:14 AM
While I am not in a position to do so at the moment, others can become active with their local party headquarters. Run for local office.  Sometimes babysteps can lead to better opportunities.

Imo, the first thing that needs to be done is to crack down on "no fault" divorce.  That will slow down the tide of people looking for greener pastures.  The next thing to do is to find a way to throw out corrupt judges and GAL's.  Incompetent attorneys should have their licences revoked.

I understand where you're going, but until we address the real problem in our society, nothing will change.  A country is nothing without family structure, and so the family structure has been systematically destroyed for the last 40 years.  I could write a post so long that your eyes would cross, so I won't.  

Speaking of the eGray Hooker, Free Republic and John and Ken from KFI (am 640) were instrumental in giving that bum the heave ho.  When Davis was running for reelection, I went to a couple of rallies with Free Republic, and my poster mentioned the paternity bill that Davis vetoed.  In Century City, the Secret Service guys were across the street, and were checking out my sign.  They were there protecting the Hilldabeast.

See?  That's what's wrong with our system.  Corrupt politicians who pander to the lowest common denomitor, which would be the Federal Government.  They seize your states tax dollars, then make you dance to their tune.  Want to try and fix that?

I don't want to be negative, but this is a huge task. Anyone who is able to, should try and run for local office in their town.  Quietly make your way up the ladder.  It's all I can think of.
Title: RE: One other point to consider.............
Post by: StPaulieGirl on Nov 04, 2004, 09:27:47 AM
Excellent point!  Take the incentive away for the usual bitchery, and the kids win.  Have you thought about running for office?  See my post somewhere on this thread....
Title: Me?????
Post by: Kitty C. on Nov 04, 2004, 10:19:47 AM
No way.......I sound a LOT better on paper than I do in person.  And I have a tendency of bucking a conservative system in a rural backwater.  This past election, in our county, proved the 'good old boy' system is alive and well.  Just in our little hamlet alone (pop. 2300+), if the fire chief and his cronies are in favor of one certain candidate, others will follow the Pied Piper almost blindly........I've seen it happen over and over again.  And this is a family situation as well, where the chief position is literally handed down thru the generations.  No democracy here!

And with me in our volunteer EMS unit (our pres. is nephew to the chief) and having to work with these guys all the time, it makes it tense at times.   Let's just say that I don't see that town getting a female firefighter, not in my lifetime and I doubt in DS's either.

BUT, I have made the rounds of the state reps.  I haven't been able to verify if my state rep. won his election, but he has already promised me that if I and/or others can come up with a prospective child-friendly bill, he would support it and do his best to sell it to the other reps.

Unfortunately, we also need the judges to uphold those laws and get society to think differently about it.  A LONG row to hoe.........
Title: RE: I've got your back...
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Nov 04, 2004, 11:01:11 AM
Illinois, same as my son
Title: RE: One other point to consider.............
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Nov 04, 2004, 11:04:03 AM
I could not agree more, Kitty. Taking the fight out of it makes it easier on the kids. Their not put in the middle. I also think the divorce rate would come down. Make things equal from the get go.....Would make parents stop and think before they decide to pack up and leave.

"Children learn what they live"
Title: EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Kitty C. on Nov 04, 2004, 11:55:42 AM
You have to start at the core, the root of the problem.  Anything else is just a band-aid, a temp. fix with no perm. solution and open to change on a whim by whomever is in the decision-making position, whether it be a lawmaker, judge, atty. or some other professional.
Title: RE: Me????? Yeah you :-)
Post by: StPaulieGirl on Nov 04, 2004, 01:09:58 PM
I'm the same way.  You're one up on me, regarding  contacting your state reps.  Someday I'd like to run for local office, but that would primarily focus on bringing jobs to the Victor Valley.  I think once you have your foot in the door, you can talk to people who can bring the changes we want.

It would be nice to have bi-partisan support for proposed measures.  After all, you're a Democrat, and I'm a Republican :)
Title: RE: Me????? Yeah you :-)
Post by: Kitty C. on Nov 04, 2004, 01:40:18 PM
I think the reason I hesitate is because I've watched and helped a friend run for the sheriff's office 3 times now, and lost again on Tues. to a newcomer.  The old guard finally is retiring after 28 years in office and they picked one of their own to run on the Rep. ticket.  I live in an EXTREMELY saturated Rep. county!

I've often thought about the school board, which could be a starting point, I guess.  It's getting that 'foot in the door' that's the hardest part.  For me and this community, it would be more like shoving a battering ram thru a door, LOL!  I think that's how hard I'd have to push to get in!
Title: Yeah Kitty....
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Nov 04, 2004, 02:41:21 PM
If you decide to run for public office, can you move to Illinios?

We could use the help....


"Children learn what they live"
Title: RE: Yeah Kitty....
Post by: Kitty C. on Nov 04, 2004, 03:28:10 PM
Sorry, my heart's in in Iowa......at least for the time being!

BTW, are you in northern or southern IL?  DH is currrently working over there, near Princeton.
Title: RE: Yeah Kitty....
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Nov 04, 2004, 04:07:42 PM
If I remember correctly, Princeton is on the west side near the border going into Iowa. Maybe 60 miles in. I am south of Chicago.

We have rural areas, we need good EMT'S, you might like it.

Still say, you have the makings of a great Governor....
 
"Children learn what they live"
Title: RE: Yeah Kitty....
Post by: Kitty C. on Nov 04, 2004, 05:02:08 PM
Ohhhhhhh, if you ONLY knew me, MSD!  Like I said, I look a LOT better on paper than in person, LOL!

But I also have family in the Oak Park area.  DH works as far east as Henry...may not be all that far from you.  But they'll soon be packing in the equip. for the winter and he'll be in the shop doing PM and tear-downs till spring. But it's better for him to stay more centrally located on the RR line, which is just about where we're at right now.

And I've stayed with him over in Henry a few years ago.  If it happens next year, we just might have to see about getting together!
Title: RE: Yeah Kitty....
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Nov 04, 2004, 05:10:41 PM
I have many family members in Oak Park, small world!

"Children learn what they live"
Title: RE: One other point to consider.............
Post by: POC on Nov 04, 2004, 05:49:30 PM
When one party stands to gain by from a contentious atmosphere, there will be additional contention. That party who stands to gain from the animosity is most likely to create it. By saying you can't have 50/50 when there is animosity almost assures animosity. You're right, tell 'em 50/50 is the way it's going to be and there won't be much reason to be uncooperative.
Title: RE: I've got your back...
Post by: POC on Nov 04, 2004, 06:02:19 PM
Typically, local delegations of state legislators meet to listen about issues that concern their constituents in a public forum. I have spoken at several of these delegation hearings. Many times committees allow for public input too. If you contact your state rep and/or senator I am sure they will let you know when the next one is. But, it is likely to be after new legislators have been sworn in. That is a good time to put the bug-a-boo in a few reporters’ ears too. Give 'em a few factual tidbits to chomp on, and then spring the question on them.

If you need more ideas, let me know. I am full of it, uh, I mean them.
Title: That's what I like to hear!
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Nov 04, 2004, 06:11:35 PM
>If you need more ideas, let me know. I am full of it, uh, I mean them.

"Children learn what they live"
Title: When are we doing dinner and drinks???
Post by: joni on Nov 04, 2004, 10:51:05 PM

Well when Kitty's in Oak Park, let's all get together.  I'm 15 minutes from Oak Park.
Title: RE: One other point to consider.............
Post by: joni on Nov 04, 2004, 10:54:30 PM

printed that point off for my file, you're right, if custody is taken off the table...the air's out of their sails.  Well put Kitty!
Title: RE: When are we doing dinner and drinks???
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Nov 04, 2004, 11:39:56 PM
I am a good 3 hours away! Maybe we can plan to celebrate when Illinois gets something in writing. legally, officially. With luck, we might be next...and with proper wording.

I am ready for some good old fashioned letter writing. Maybe start with the Flint newspaper and their bias article. Did you read that peice of trash?

"Children learn what they live"
Title: RE: Agreed!
Post by: Peanutsdad on Nov 05, 2004, 12:28:13 AM
Wanna see quicker change?


Start hounddoggin legislators, judges and attorneys with PI's. Give incriminating evidense to their spouses.( Let's face it,, odds are good they WILL be caught with dirty laundry). Let them get the dirty end of the stick in divorce,, bet the laws change a lot quicker ;)
Title: PAST Time to 'BRING IT ON'
Post by: Davy on Nov 05, 2004, 12:44:34 AM
and the time has probably NEVER been better.

I have to be very brief right now.  My vision COMPLIMENTS any past , current or future individual efforts.  It involves organizing millions of people (nationality) from all walks of life transcending every social entity (ie age, sex, ethnicity, marital status, etc) and initially has one premise that parents will determine ALL custody issues thus removing all of government from making any determinations concerning children - parent relationships .  

It is basically that simple.  I can elaborate on this vision.  This is a civil endeavor but not neccessarily respecting any authority (so-called) that does not respect our endangered children.  

Perhaps everyone could think in these terms...non-profit, regional coorinators, endorsements from other respected organizations, etc.
An action organization ... not a support group.

Membership cost 02 cents...small at first then snowballing.  Primarily email communication.

I think it is best to think in general terms and let the detail components work out as dedicated committed resources become available to make decisions by sharing ideas and working together.    

Any input ???
Title: School Board is a good choice
Post by: StPaulieGirl on Nov 10, 2004, 10:22:37 AM
I'm a registered Republican, but I'm always willing to explore other  candidates.  I do it all the time.  What was the difference between your friend and his/her opponent, besides political party?  Of course there are some people that will not actually look past the political party when voting.  That's probably what happened to your friend.

If I was to ever run for any local office, I would change my party affiliation to Independent.  I've heard one or two things about the Constitution Party, but really have no information.  In areas where the majority of the population belongs to a particular party, it could be a wise move to run as a third party candidate.

The school board is a good choice.  There are issues with today's public education system that I think everyone can agree on.  At the local level, I'd say it's the budget for starters.   You could attend open board meetings, and take notes.  Listen to what they want to spend your money on.  You could research current and past budgets.  What galls me is that they always need more money, but it's not helping kids to read or learn basic math.  

They keep asking for more and more money, but the bathrooms and classrooms are falling apart.  Where is the money going?  If we have to make our money stretch, so should the government.  Find out if these folks go on "fact finding missions" to Vegas or Cancun on budget money.  It happens.  Check out how much money their luncheons and dinners are costing.  If they truly cared about education, they'd have potlucks.  If you, or anyone else reading this, decides to run for a school board position, this is an issue that ticks everyone off.  More money for substandard education.

School boards are another good ol' boy network.  You could hope for a nasty scandal that would sour voters, and encourage them to look elsewhere.  Everyone is getting fed up, and the person who best addresses their issues is the one that wins....well, theoretically.  
Title: RE: Agreed!
Post by: StPaulieGirl on Nov 10, 2004, 10:52:28 AM
Lol!  Seriously, let's face it.  There is a double standard between regular taxpaying folks, and the folks that tax us.

Every election, someone is digging up dirt on some candidate.  The ultimate was all the info that was dug up on Clinton.  Did Hillary leave?  How about Arnold Schwarzenegger?  There was some unsavory behavior towards females in his past, however he wasn't married at the time.  It seems that for some people, there are no consequences.

These women will publically stick with their husbands until the bitter end.  I wish they had more self respect.  The evidence should be leaked to the news media, which would bury it most likely (unless the politician is Republican), Drudge, and other outlets.  Let the voters get them out of office.  If you can't manage your personal life appropriately, how can you govern or make decisions that affect so many other people?

I agree with your thoughts, though.  Wouldn't it be nice....
Title: RE: Lets' Set a New Agenda
Post by: ladybug on Nov 10, 2004, 05:43:06 PM
I agree, we do need to set a new agenda.  On October 25,  we had our first meeting for our group we named PAS KIDS IN DISTRESS.

FYI, I have outlined what we have done in Maine.  So far it seems to be working, but I expect we'll run up against roadblocks.  Any idea you have will be welcome.  We need to share any idea that works.  We can accomplish great things if we work together.  Now's the time to contact
your newly elected Reps and Senators, they are writing their bills now to present when the session starts in January.....  See Below:

Thought you might be interested in what Maine is doing to combat parent/child alienation and abuse.  So far we are getting media attention, which is badly needed   ---
Here is our formula  we used= you do need to plan ahead
Get a name for your group, ours is PAS Kids In Distress or PAS KIDs

1.  Write a letter to the editor (you should get some responses, these will be these your core members,  enlist them to help spread the word).  They will feel better when they think they are doing something to         help and will get some comfort knowing a group is trying to save their sanity.  

2.   From this you will be able to find someone who is willing and able to help you form and lead a Childrens/Parents support group and at the same time get active.

3.   Get all the information you can...there is a lot out there...write down all the web sites, books and other important information,  put it in a binder for easy reference. This can be presented at your meeting.

4.    Set a Date and Plan a meeting, even if you only have 4 or 5 who respond to your letter....it will grow.

5.    Do a mailing to Legislators, GAL's, School Guidance Counselors, Lawyers, Psychiatrists, Child Protection Workers and anyone you can think of.  The least expensive way is to send post cards.  Make your own cards on your computer.
Don't be disappointed if none of them come..your main goal, for the 1st meeting is to get publicity.  All those you invited will see that you mean business when they read it in the paper.

6.    Notify the press!  You may want someone to write a PRESS Release
because it needs to be something that grabs their attention.
Write a prepared statement to give them at the meeting.  If they
don't come you can mail it the next day adding something about what went on at the meeting. Be sure to include a story someone (maybe your own) has told.  No names needed in the article unless you wish).

7.    Invite some one knowledgeable to come and speak.  We had a Psychotherapist, who had gone through it, speak to us.

8.    For those who are victims, invite them to tell their story.

9.    Be sure to spread the word about the Class Action Law suit and ask them sign the on-line petition.

10    Urge them to write a letter to the FBI  about their situation.  They have been denied their civil rights that is guaranteed to them by the 14th amendment and they  have a right to make a complaint (more info is at Childrens Justice.org/crop, a sample letter is there so they can form their own letter from that.)  
            Hopefully, you will be able to get the press to do an article.
            (we had 3 reporters at our 1st meeting,    
11   Set a date for your second meeting (our second meeting is coming up Nov 29, 7:00 pm at Gilbert School)  
   
Here is what we have planned for the next meeting.
            We sent notices to the newspapers so it can be listed 2 weeks
           prior to the meeting.  We have to get the word out early.
           
            At this meeting we have invited two State Representatives and one  State Senator.  We are trying to get laws laws enforced/ changed/ written    i.e.  = The courts are too slow and families are destroyed before their case even gets heard.....
The Guaradian's ad Litem do more harm than good.......etc
                       
If you do this, be prepared for someone to attend the legislive hearing
and speak to the committee regarding the importance of the bill when
it comes before the committee.
 
        (We would love to hear about your experience with a GAL
    before our next meeting,Nov 29, even if you're from another state)

If there is anyone in Maine, needing help or who would like to work with us, please email us at     pashelp@hotmail.com.   Or send your story to PAS-KIDs,  PO Box 2114,   Augusta, ME 04330.
 
We would be very interested in hearing from anyone who has formed a group as to what you are doing.
Together we can make a difference, not just in Maine. Let's swap ideas.
 
Hazel Davis