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Main Forums => General Issues => Topic started by: okcowgirl1974 on Jan 20, 2005, 02:36:32 PM

Title: I dont know everything, here's what i do know.
Post by: okcowgirl1974 on Jan 20, 2005, 02:36:32 PM
     What I'm about to discuss is very sensitive, very few people in my life know about this. This is a very tragic situation, I hope I can find understanding and not blame.
     Either through my fiance's ex wife had a blood transfusion while she was pregnant with his daughter or her being unfaithful to him. ( this was back in the 80's) She and her and her unborn daughter contracted HIV.  He was trying to work through his own grief and understandably would not touch her for fear of him getting it. About a year 1/2 later he caught her in bed with another man.  While working out their divorce they were still living together, while he was at work, the Ex filed for abandonment, through( i dont know every detail) some gov't agency. They gave her $40,000.  As you can imagin, the cost of the hospital bills for their condtition are unbelievable.  Well james has about $15,000 left to payback.  
     And James let her have physical custody of their 2 kids, because of her condition he wanted his kids to have memories of their mom.  This woman is unbelievable, she wouldnt leave it at that she tried to revolk all of his rights to his children. She treat her kids like they are her paycheck.   And if you are wondering if he has the disease too, No he doesnt, if he did he would be as sick as they are.  His daughter is a real miracle child. The pain she has gone through is unimaginable.  Today she is an ordinary child.  The medicines she take has slowed the progression of the disease.  She is a teenager now, she has developed like a young lady, but from day to day we never know how long she will be with us.  when she gets the flu or the cold she has to be hospitalized.  She and her mother both have AIDS now.  The mother doesnt have much longer.
   I am not gonna tell you my fiance is perfect.  And I understand that a man who does not provide for his family is a poor excuse for a human being.  Through bad choices and things beyond his controll he lost his job, and had trouble finding one.  Believe me he tried finding a job.
    Me I live in OK,  he and his family live in TX.  I havent heard anything at all from him since august.  His family was suppost to keep me posted about him and how he is doing, i dont get along too well with his family.  I think about and miss him everyday.
   I just need to talk about this  only my mom and dad, and 2 friends know about this.  Its hard to talk about.
Title: You seem very young to me
Post by: MafiaMom on Jan 20, 2005, 02:53:09 PM
and I'd LIKE to sympathize with your bf, but I still can't. I'm sorry. I've lived the life on both sides of the fence for 13 years, and I've seen and heard it all. And "falling on hard times" does nothing to help with sympathy because when I had my ds, my ex didn't pay cs...and I did EVERYTHING I could to support my son on my own. My x claimed he'd get a job at McDonalds so he didn't have to pay me the amount the court ordered.

Your ex may have lost his job, and had trouble finding one...but I'm sure the local McDonalds was hiring...or the local restaurant needed a bus boy. Honestly, a parent is a good parent when they do everything they possibly can to care for their children. So when you speak about him falling on hard times...look closely at that. It seems to me he's trying to raise attendance at his pity party.

I'm sure you love him very much. But you said "a man who doesn't provide for his family is a sorry excuse for a human being." Are you telling me your bf could have found ABSOLUTELY NO WORK...even enough to send $25 to his children per month? Or was he just too "proud" to take a job that was "beneath him" to get him thru until that perfect job made itself available?

and hon...just because he's not as sick as they are does NOT mean he's not HIV positive. I would say protect yourself and get a test done...him too. HIV can hide in your body for YEARS and you'll never know you have it until one day you get ill. Please don't let him fool you into believing you'd see him ill if he had it.
Title: RE: You seem very young to me
Post by: okcowgirl1974 on Jan 20, 2005, 03:14:35 PM
I need understanding not blame.  Im not saying He did everything right. I know he had the best intentions at heart.  YOU NEED NOT to judge,  maybe i was wrong to come here...   to seek help...  and you seem very judgmental to me
Title: RE: I dont know everything, here's what i do know.
Post by: okcowgirl1974 on Jan 20, 2005, 03:19:50 PM
plus he's been tested for 7 years
Title: RE: I dont know everything, here's what i do know.
Post by: knoot7 on Jan 20, 2005, 04:41:18 PM

I don't know what age has to do with your problems but please visit your email - I gave you a link which you will find the support and advice you are looking are going through some hard times and want to talk with someone - it is understandable and it is possible to find such a place as I mentioned in an email to you - MUCH better support there... and you do not have to defend yourself for your decisions or your BF's decisions....just get advice on how to handle things since the choices have already been made.....

Title: RE: You seem very young to me
Post by: ksmomof2girls on Jan 20, 2005, 09:58:49 PM
>Your ex may have lost his job, and had trouble finding
>one...but I'm sure the local McDonalds was hiring...or the
>local restaurant needed a bus boy.

FYI.....depending on his background McDonald's or any other fast food place won't hire you, because they think its worthless to train you, then have leave for a better paying job after only being there a few weeks.

I know this for a fact, because one of my friends was trying to find any kind of work, and they turned down because of her experiences and extended education.

Title: We do support you and sympathize with you on this....
Post by: Genie on Jan 21, 2005, 12:13:09 PM
I know it is hard. I have been through it with my DH and am just about done caring now.  Mafiamom knows the reality of many different situations b/c she has lived them.  Somtimes she may sound harsh but she is just trying to get others to see the reality of the situation they are in. Sometimes an outside perspective is what a person needs.

Only time will tell with you guys. You stated below he gets out in a couple of months. You haven't had contact with him for quite sometime so you may find that he won't be contacting you when he gets out either.  No matter what, you can't fix the situation for him. Believe me I have tried many times and unless he wants to change it he can't.  

Also what are his plans for when his ex does die. Will he bringing his daughter to be with him?  He will find out the reality of paying for all the treatments she needs then. It may help get him in gear.

I know it is hard at times to find a job but there are ones out there. He just needs to be willing to swallow his pride and take something that is lesser till he can get something better in the future. Hopefully he will have learned that he doesn't want to go back to jail for not paying once again when he gets out.
Title: RE: I dont know everything, here's what i do know.
Post by: okcowgirl1974 on Jan 21, 2005, 01:23:59 PM
thank you
Title: I'm not blaming you at all, hon
Post by: MafiaMom on Jan 21, 2005, 01:30:28 PM
All I'm trying to do is get you to see PAST the love, into the reality of the situation. The old saying, "Blinded by love" is quite true when applied to real life. I'm not being judgmental, I'm being honest. Being honest sometimes means saying things someone doesn't want to hear. One day, though, you will see what I meant, and that it was meant with CARING...not to judge you at all.

People DO understand how you feel. However, you stated in your first post that the bm "got what she wanted" and it appears you think SHE put your bf in jail. She didn't. That's the point I was trying to get you to see. As another poster pointed out, a mere $25 a month would have kept him out of jail. If he got a job making even a small amount of money, he could have come up with a small amount to send every month to show he's trying...and he wouldn't be where he is now. Regardless, he is where he is. And bm didn't put him there...he put HIMSELF there by choosing to send ZERO rather than even a meager amount.

People don't have the power to just up and throw someone in jail. If that were the case, I'd like to see the nosey, meddling, puppy hating neighbor across the street put away for a few months. It doesn't work like that. The only way someone is put in jail is if they don't try at all, don't show up for the show cause hearings, don't make an effort to try to right a wrong. They don't end up there because someone ELSE put them there...but because their own actions put them there. When unemployed, he should have contacted the court for a temporary reduction in cs, rather than just forget about it.

Does that make more sense? Is it less harsh?

I do feel for you. I do. What you expected to hear, however, is unknown to me. I'm not going to feel sorry for a man who is in jail because he didn't send even $25 (or $10 for that matter) a month to his dying ex wife to help care for his children.

Again...I'm not being judgmental...I'm being honest. Someday the sun will clear and you'll see thru the love, and into the truth. What did you EXPECT to hear from us? Honestly, because I don't exactly know what you expected. Compassion and understanding for your side of things? Sure, I feel for you...but not how you WANT me to. I feel for you because I see love blinding you to the reality of why he is where he is.
Title: RE: I dont know everything, here's what i do know.
Post by: okcowgirl1974 on Jan 21, 2005, 01:30:47 PM
I dont see that email, im very new to this site.  Is there a place on this site for email, or was it sent to my own email address
Title: LOL...defend herself?
Post by: olanna on Jan 21, 2005, 03:10:25 PM
What advice would give her on how to better handle her bf jail for non-support of his kid? Tell her how to bake a cake with a file in it to get the guy out?

When she needs some real advice on how to get the arrears off the credit report and how to get CS amount reduced, please send her back here for real advice...
Title: RE: LOL...defend herself?
Post by: okcowgirl1974 on Jan 21, 2005, 03:38:24 PM
I came here as a resourse on how to deal with this.  If I had wanted your kind of advice I would have listened to my mom when I first told her.  Im a level headed person,  I dont drink or do drugs.  I obey the law I can pretty much tell you I would never have to go to jail.  I'm not promiscuous.  I really do not have to defend my self or him.  I never said he was perfect or did everything right. Maybe he should be where he is. That's the Law.  I just need help dealing with it.  I made a commitment to him to be faithful to him, I have done that.  I feel partly to blame for him being there.  He came to OKto be with me, and left a really great job with a major auto auction.  He had a job here when his step dad died of colon cancer.  He had to go back to help his mom and so he could keep better contact with his kids.  I moved to TX with him.  He got a job there with a BBQ shop.  I encouraged him to move back to OK where i help my dad on a cattle farm, I encouraged him to not get a regular job and help me on the farm, and I would give him 1/2 of what my dad pays me. That would have covered Child support.  He moved here got a temp job and was helping me.  But he missed his kids too much and had to move back.   That was when he had trouble finding a job.  He got his child support taken out of his check regularly.  His kids are covered by medicare.  There would be no way he could cover the cost of her meds alone.    He made his choices and he is paying the consequenses and so am I.  I dont need anyone to tell me if i/he did the right thing or wront things.  I in the end make my own choices.  I follow what my heart and mind tells me to do. Im just needing help.
Title: RE: I dont know everything, here's what i do know.
Post by: knoot7 on Jan 21, 2005, 03:43:37 PM
I am fairly new here as well...but I clicked onto your name and then clicked to send an email - I don't know exactly where it sent.....

as for LOL defend herself....olanna - she has made her choices and those are her choices . Yes no need to make her defend herself...but give her sound advice on how to go forward with her choices is the advice she is looking for. AS MafiaMom and Genie did in a more supportive post afterwards How to deal with what is going on and perhaps get advice on how her BF can handle things going forward...but to talk about getting tested for HIV - she is aware of that - OBVIOUSLY! So why need to give advice on that? Why assume that her BF had made no attempt or has never done anything for his daughter and EX?? Did you read the first post at all??  That is what I am saying. There is a harsh way to put things to sound like you are barading her and telling her that things are bad and to walk waway instead of providing sounds advice she so much needed!  and then the latter posts as states above were MUCH more of what she was looking for and needing!
Title: RE: LOL...defend herself?
Post by: olanna on Jan 21, 2005, 04:02:16 PM
For starters, I haven't given you any advice. I believe in letting people find their own way to hell.

Did you happen to read this?  This will give you a better idea of what "help" is available here and what you can expect in the form of information from the SPARC site.

Welcome to SPARC, the Separated Parenting Access & Resource Center.

SPARC's goal is to ensure that children of divorce continue to have meaningful relationships with both parents, regardless of marital status. We advocate on behalf all non-custodial parents to ensure they get equitable treatment in court and continued access to their children. In addition, we work to promote gender equality in Divorce and Custody issues.

SPARC recognizes the value of fatherhood and supports the concept of true joint custody, where parents work together for the best interests of their children. When joint custody is not possible or workable, we often advocate for fathers as custodial parents. Statistics show that custodial fathers are the most likely to encourage a positive relationship between their children and the other parent and to raise happy, healthy children.

We support parents who have the best interests of their children in mind, and who understand the importance of participation by both parents in the children's lives. Unfortunately, many custodial parents see no value in the presence of the other parent (often fathers) in their children's lives, and some actively work to sabotage any involvement. This psychological warfare is a form of child abuse that frequently causes serious and permanent harm to children. We actively oppose those who engage in this kind of child-harming behavior.

To accomplish our mission, we serve as a provider of information and support resources, and we provide our services without cost. The information and services available through SPARC can be used to great effect, but they will not help a parent "cheat" their way to custody. We work to promote fair and equitable treatment, not to give one parent or the other an unfair advantage.

One of the more recent advances in Family Court litigation has been the recognition of what is referred to as a "Parenting Evaluation". This is exactly what it sounds like- an assessment of each spouse's parenting skills. In a proper evaluation, a comprehensive investigation into each spouse's psychological makeup, parenting skills, and other factors is conducted and the results are weighed in an attempt to determine the best custody arrangements.

We support parenting evaluations by impartial evaluators who are truly concerned about what is best for the children, but we also offer many other avenues for managing and resolving divorce and custody-related issues. If you're a recent arrival, we suggest you start off by leaving a message about your situation on the SPARC Forums. The users and Moderators on the SPARC Forums will be glad to assist you in finding the information you need.

Title: RE: LOL...defend herself?
Post by: okcowgirl1974 on Jan 21, 2005, 06:38:43 PM
     Since I may be a step parent one day it may be best I find out how to deal with the issues I may be facing.  
     I am willing to accept his children it took me 2 years to convince his children I didnt want to replace their mother or take their dad away from them.  Just before he got the summons, we were able to spend a whole weekend with his kids.  I took SD shopping with me,  i was trying on new dresses and she was critiquing each dress for me.  In the end i bought one dress, then I allowed her to pic out a t-shirt under $10.  That shocked her no one not even her mother had went shopping with her like that.  And we were able to talk by our selves for once nothing serious just chit-chat.  When I she had to go back, she did something that shocked me and touched me deeply.  She put her arms around me, gave me a hug, and said "now I know why dad likes you so much.  and said "i love you if he does".  I was speechless, I was so closed to tears.  I just said "I love you too and I will always want you and your brother to be a part of the family we create together."  If anyplace could help me deal with the separation maybe this site could help.  If there is another site that deals more with my specific problem I thought this site could direct me.  I was up front when I signed on to this site,  they allowed me in so I'm staying.
Title: RE: LOL...defend herself?
Post by: olanna on Jan 22, 2005, 12:41:16 AM
Allow me to play devil's advocate here for just a moment....

"Since I may be a step parent one day it may be best I find out how to deal with the issues I may be facing. "

And you might not be a step parent one day. But there is nothing that can prepare you for that outside of the experience itself. Like saying, I am going to read every book I can find so I can learn how to snow ski.

"I am willing to accept his children it took me 2 years to convince his children I didnt want to replace their mother or take their dad away from them."

It isn't about you. It's about them accepting you and even under the best conditions, they may *never* do that. Please don't kid yourself. Standing by him will mean little to nothing to young children. As with any relationship, there has to be a chemistry and connection and a desire to make it work.

" she did something that shocked me and touched me deeply. She put her arms around me, gave me a hug, and said "now I know why dad likes you so much."

Spending money on most any kid always gives them a warm and fuzzy glow. I must get 100 hugs from my own kid when I take him out for a new video game. It's called retail therapy.  It has the same affect on some women, as well.

"I just said "I love you too and I will always want you and your brother to be a part of the family we create together."

Word up...the kids are already his family and will always be his family, whether you want it or not. It's you that actually will have to work on being accepted; not them.  Harsh but real.

"If anyplace could help me deal with the separation maybe this site could help."

What kind of help do you want? You need to explain exactly what it is you are looking for here.

" If there is another site that deals more with my specific problem I thought this site could direct me."

This reminds me of a scene from a Crocodile Dundee movie I saw. The gal was explaining to Dundee what a therapist does...she explained it to him, telling him that is was someone that was paid to listen to your which C. Dundee responded..."ain't you got no mates?" IOW, don't you have a friend you could have a beer with or coffee and sit down and talk about your feelings? Just seems to me that this kind of thing is better addressed in the analog world and not the digital world.

" I was up front when I signed on to this site, they allowed me in so I'm staying."

There are no questions asked for signing up for this site, other than creating a username, password and giving a valid email address. There is no screening process here for deciding who gets to come in and doesn't, unless of course you violate the TOS.  And no one is asking you leave, so I guess I don't get what you mean in the above statement.

Title: Explanation...
Post by: MafiaMom on Jan 24, 2005, 07:59:40 AM
Re: the HIV testing. In her first post she stated her bf doesn't have it because he "isn't sick" like they are (or something to that affect). That's why the issue of HIV testing was brought up again. She didn't say he doesn't have it cuz he was tested...she said he didn't have it cuz he wasn't SICK.

As for why I posted re: her seeming to be young...because we all know that with age comes experience, and it seems to me she has no experience re: cs and stepparenting. She has the illusions of grandeur that many young women have.

If this poster wants support...sure, we can give her support. HOWEVER, in my years on the boards, and it's been a LOT of years...I've seen women like this. I've even seen MEN like this. Those who think the world or the ex wife/husband is "out to get" the ncp. In reality, most ncp's get put in jail because of their OWN actions. That's the first thing she needs to learn IF there is going to be a decent relationship all around (meaning with the kids, the bm, and her). She needs to put blame where blame DESERVES to be laid.

In order to have a good relationship with the kids, no matter how much we dislike the bm, we cannot show those feelings of hate towards the bm. The kids WILL pick up on that. If she thinks the bm put her bf in jail, that will come across in her relationship with the kids. They WILL pick up on that. And if the ncp is the one who was wrong, we need to be able to say, "Look, it wasn't what bm's what ncp did HIMSELF that put him there." Because if we DON'T, and we see only the "wrong" that's been "done" to the man we love, we're fooling ourselves. And in fooling ourselves, we tend to dislike the bm...and that's not where the blame should be laid. So the "first step" in accepting the situation she finds herself in, is to accept the fact that her bf is the one who put himself where he is now.

I read her post to Olanna...where she hopes to someday be a stepmom to those children. I've been a stepmom, and like everyone I thought life would be great...that I'd have a great relationship with the kids. However, that's NOT REALITY in most situations. There are a ton of websites for second family troubles. Reality is NOT what we  dreamed it would be or those websites would not be necessary. If reality were as wonderful as we thought, there would be no need for second wife message boards.

To this poster, because of that, I've put the truth "out there" for her to see. I can't say I feel sorry for her bf. I also can't feel sorry for HER because she hasn't accepted "reality" yet. Once she accepts reality, she will have a totally different view of her situation...and she won't NEED support because she'll know what happened was a direct result of her bf's actions, and not bm's...and at that point, like the other poster stated, she'll be able to look at her bf and say "this is the choice you made, and this is where it got you" rather than, "Poor bf! BM put him in jail!"

Title: RE: Explanation...
Post by: olanna on Jan 24, 2005, 10:08:27 AM
She also hasn't heard from her bf since August, so there is a grand chance she has nothing to hold onto or worry about anyway.

Title: UPDATE:
Post by: okcowgirl1974 on Feb 04, 2005, 10:20:06 PM
Sorry I've been having puter problems, something about cookies...
Crazy how things can change in a couple of weeks.  I was truly in dispair about my situation.  This forum has helped tremedously.  My b/f called me two weeks ago.  What some of you said was true it wasnt his ex but the DA that called him into court, because he missed 4 months out of faithfully keeping a job and getting child-support taken out of his checks.   He was in "lockdown" for a couple of weeks.  He was then in a sort of "half-way house" where he was allowed to find work in the community.   He went to a temp agency that got him a job with the city.   He is fixing water mains that sort of thing.  He did really well.  He paid off the 4 months he missed ahead of time.  They let him out on parole in middle of Dec.  He called me when he was on his feet and into his own appartment.  He told me he had $2K left of the $40K he owed. (his ex filed for abandonment while he was still living in the home, while he was at work, before the divorce was final.  The gov't paid her $40K which he had to pay back) Here is the kicker...  He didnt realize and no one told him that they charged interest on that $40K.  He now owes $40K.  Isnt that GREAT!!  He is on parole untill he pays it off which is about 10yrs.   There is a good part though.   He now gets to see his kids every day.  They can see him when ever they want because they are in the same town.  My b/f's mom moved there too, so not only do they get to see their dad all the time, but the get to see their grandma too.   When his daughter gets sick he can be there with her.  
      He has asked me to move there with him.  He's going to be hired permanently soon,  then he will get benifits, and all those goodies.  I told him I still love him and care about him,  but If he really wants this bad enough he will make it happen.  I spent a fortune previously driving back and forth between OK and TX to see him.  I only go if he provides gas money.  And Ive been kind of on this roller coaster ride and didnt really didnt know what i was getting my self into when i met him.  I told him this was his last chance with me.  I've got to see proof that he's getting his stuff together once and for all.   He also quit smoking which was a big problem between us.
    olanna, I really dont know enough about you to judge you and you could have given more constructive critisism.   But I think you were the most help full of all in your own way.   I am an added member to their family.  That is a good way to thing about it.  Allthough, that doesnt mean I or any children I have with their dad are second class citizens.  I didnt mean I the way I wrote it.  With your help I can be more affective in the way I relate to them.  I know you are probably find more ways to critisize me or him.  Go ahead I will probably learn from it.   And I have always had trouble making and keeping friends.  I have found 1 friend through this time that has listen to my problems, and didnt judge me or him or the situation.   I told only a few people about this.  The few that did blasted me or him the same way I was here.   I have found my first real friend at 30.  guess what she's only 19 and she showed more kindness to me than some of you  at what ever age you guys are at whatever ages some of you are-- amy
Title: RE: UPDATE:
Post by: knoot7 on Feb 08, 2005, 12:24:41 PM
WOO HOO- this is great to hear! I am gald that you took what ever was spoken here and learned from it - that makes you a truly unique person and someone special.  

Some people are pesimists and others optimists which of course is very apparent. I am really glad you found a friend and someone that you can count on for the future. You can find the support you need and I hope that you know that with the other site you just me - you will find good friends, good advice and certainly no judgement what so ever. Also you will find positive relationships with step children. I never got into a response as I didn't want to add more drama to your post...but not all kids show their affection just because they are bought something..... they are genuine feelings and words that are spoken. As children are honest. Some people really do have EXCELLENT relationships with their Step Children and it is possible to turn relationships around to become what is most defnitely a wonderful parenting experience!

I hope your B/F will provide everything you deserve!

Good luck!
Title: Is there an attorney willing to look at this case?
Post by: okcowgirl1974 on Feb 10, 2005, 11:52:31 AM
He was never able to afford adequate legal counseling.  I was wondering if there's an attorney in the E. Texas area willing to just go over his case and see if everything is acurate?   He still hasn't much money to spare,  so anything would have to be free services.  How would I go about finding something like that?
Title: You could possibly find an attorney...
Post by: Genie on Feb 14, 2005, 12:30:32 PM
that does Pro Bono work.  

He can get a free consultation also from alot of attorneys but I don't know who much they would delve into his paperwork without some sort of payment. Maybe they could make out payment arrangement. Certain amount every month?
Title: I'm glad things are better for you...
Post by: Genie on Feb 14, 2005, 12:34:13 PM
and that you and BF have reconnected at least on some level.  

Time has passed since he went in so I think you guys should take things slow. I wouldn't move out there with him immediately.  I am glad he has a job now that will hopefully be permanent and he is back in his children's lives regularly and is there for them on every level.  I think that will go a long way to him turning things around. Sometimes the NCP just gives up on every level when he/she doesn't see the children for whateve reason.

I hope whatever happens it is what is best for you.  At the very least, you can have some closure on this relationship and maybe even be able to form it into a lasting relationship.  Good Luck.  Keep us updated.

And I hope I am not one of the people you stated were not kind to you. I didn't mean to be that way if it came across in a bad way.