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My wife and I split two years ago. It wasn't pretty and I admit I pulled out all the stops to make things very hard for her. Stopped paying bills for the house so we were forced to sell, didn't pay child support because I wasn't "ordered" to, the works. Everything I was advised to do. (I can't remember what my screen name was on here back then, sorry!) Pretty much put her in the poverty position to where she had to fire her attorney and get a state one.

I wanted out, I wanted everything and I was on a mission. I had met someone else and wanted to get our life together going. Which I did. I remarried the day my divorce was final, the custody of our child was still in question.

When it came to custody, my new wife fully expected my ex wife to get custody & me visitation. She pretty much stayed out of the proceedings and when I came home telling her my 4 year old daughter would be coming to live with us full time she wasn't happy to say the least. Her exact words were "how the hell did that happen?".

My new wife has a 16 year old daughter and apparently was looking forward to having her freedom back in two years. The father of her child hasn't been around since my SD was about 2. My new wife and I were not planning on having any children together, she had her tubes tied a few years ago. She expected that "life" to include me. Travel, etc.

Now my ex wife wasn't a bad mother, but I was just found to be in a better position to raise my daughter. Granted, in hindsight, and talking with my current wife, I put her in the position to struggle with how ugly our divorce was.

My new wife resents me for how I treated my ex now that the whole story has come out. She refuses to help with my daughter. Says your kid your problem and goes on her way. I fought for my daughter fully expecting my new wife to take on the step-mom role. She is a mom already, I thought maternal instincts were maternal instincts, no matter who the kid was. Was I wrong for that assumption?

My new wife will go out with her daughter and leave mine at home with my, my little girl doesn't understand why and cries. I can't think of anything my daughter DOESN'T cry about these days. After a long day of work, the last thing I feel like doing is sitting on the floor and coloring, so what does she do? Cries. Even if I offer to read her a book later when I've rested a bit, here come the waterworks.

My new wife goes out with her friends, and since I can't find care for my daughter, I'm left home. I'm worried she is going to cheat on me and leave me.

I don't want to be a "single dad". I feel kids need a mother, be it biological or step, ESPECIALLY a little girl. If my kid were a boy then maybe I'd understand him a little better but my daughter? She's gone from the cute little baby I knew to an alien!

I guess what I want to know is, after everything, how awful of me would it be to go to my ex and tell her she can have our daughter back? I don't want to admit I was wrong because I'll never hear the end of it, but I just can't do this myself. Without support of my new wife, this is just too much. How do I do this without looking like the biggest schmuck on the planet?

Am I striking a huge blow to father's rights?

From what I can gather, it seems that you already see that you are hurting your daughter because of the situation and already think that her mom might be better suited to care for the emotional needs of your daughter. Why not start out by increasing overnight visitation with her mom? Just tell your ex that you would like help with the little girl while you work some things out with your new wife. Sure you made life hell for your ex but hopefully your ex will realize that she loves her daughter more.
As for fathers rights, just forget about it. You aren't advocating anything by putting your daughter's feelings second to them. If you do what is best for the child, that shows that fathers can be fair and nurturing. I would say that speaks more than just gettting custody.

Sorry, but best advice is dump the new wife and concentrate on being a father. It'll be a new experience for you.

Give the poor child back to her mother. She deserves to loved, cared for & cherished 100% by everyone in her life. Then you can go on & travel happily with the greedy, irresponsible, self centered, insensitive bitch you call a wife...for as long as it lasts. GEEE ISN'T THAT JUST GREAT!!! Small sacrafice for your happiness eh?  You have little appreciation for the most precious gift you could have even been given. (Is the bedroom really THAT good?) There are millions women out there but you'll only have this one moment in time to raise your little girl. YOU WILL NEVER HAVE ANOTHER CHANCE!!  

Don't worry about this being a blow to father's rights. Your pulling out all the stops had nothing to do with Father's Rights it only had to do with winning, with money & your stupid pride. Now that you won you don't like the prize..it's a burden, it's too hard. I'm just shaking my head. I doubt there is anything anyone can say to make you realize that nothing worthwhile in life is ever easy.

We are more concerned with the mental & physcial health of the child. The way your wife is treating YOUR CHILD is just wrong, it's hurting her, it's confusing her & she needs to be removed from the situation immediately. Stop the suffering. This would be a good weekend to transfer custody. Come to an agreement then file it with the courts on Monday. There are several forms on this site you can print out. My heart is bleeding for this child as I have a 4 year old too. They are extremely aware at this age. SO SAD!

Heck, at least you were honest.

KAT

Wow, if I didn't know better, I'd say you were my ex husband)(
Unfortunately for me and the kids, it's still a scorched earth policy, four years later.

You're not striking a huge blow to father's rights.  Your wife had expectations on how life with you was going to be.  I disagree with her total coldness towards your little girl, however.  How did you manage to get custody?  How bad did you trash your ex wife in court?  If you decide to modify custody, it will bite you in the rear end.  Fighting for custody was a power play, apparently.

I have a couple of suggestions.  If you and the child's mother don't live too far away, maybe you can do 50/50 custody.  For that to work, you have to make amends, so to speak.  Basically apologize for your behavior, and outline what you feel is best for your daughter.

I'm thinking that you're pulling in some good money, considering that your wife expects to travel, etc.  You could send your girl back to her mother, pay her enough money to either stay home with her, or have a housekeeper to watch her while the mother works.  In turn, you would negotiate very liberal visitation for yourself.

Your wife doesn't seem like a very nice person.   You obviously aren't that bad of a person, because you admitted making mistakes.  This can be fixed, but it's going to be painful.  Your little one will be starting school next year.  Can you trust your wife to handle all the things that go along with that?

Good luck :-)

Thanks for the kind words. I read some of the other responses, which I will respond accordingly to that were less than supportive. I wasn't sure if gradual was the way to go or just pretty much go ball over barrel and send my daughter home to mom. I don't want her any more upset than she already is.

I'll probably have to come up with a different reason than having to work on things with my wife though, as my ex will eat that one up....and as much as the other posters want to think this is all about my new wife and making her happy, it isn't...it's me realizing I can't be both mom and dad to my daughter. She DOES deserve more than that.

Ok, sure...there you go, the perfect solution. So on top of my already exhausting job which makes me too tired to be the best dad I can be you are telling me to go through another draining divorce and then support a home by myself, do all the cooking , cleaning etc.

You think that will magically solve all my problems and turn me into super dad huh? You really aren't that much of an idiot are you? I checked out your website, if you want to dispense advice like that, why don't you dump your wife first and then see what it is like to parent alone, no help whatsoever.

Being a parent isn't a "new" experience for me. My child is 4 and I haven't been an absent dad. I just happen to know what my limitations are. I figured out I can't do it alone. This has nothing to do with my wife now really.

If anything I thank her for teaching me a valuable lesson. She has been a single mother for many years, she didn't take the hands off approach out of spite, she did it to show me what it is like to be a full time parent, and I figured out, it isn't for me. I need help. She refuses to "replace" my ex-wife and I now find it was a bad idea to even consider without her input in the first place.

Peanut, do me a favor, you seem like a very bitter angry jerk who would do anything to keep a child from a mom. I don't need advice like yours. I saw enough of your kind on DD when I posted there a while back. Anti-female to the core.

I figured out what is best for my daughter, going back to her mom. What I'm looking for is advice on the best way to approach that, not crap like you are spewing. What part of I realize I can't parent by myself did you not understand?

Kat,

I didn't mean to make my wife out to sound that bad. I was more concentrating on how my daughter was. she is most important.

My wife was a single mom for many years, as I told the "nut" case she wasn't being cold hearted she was giving me a reality check. I was wrong for assuming she would just automatically take on the mom role. Yes my daughter's feelings are hurt, but aren't I as a parents supposed to knwo how to fix that? I don't. What makes my daughter happy I have found I don't have the energy or inclination for.

Not everyone can parent alone. Most people don't have kids expecting to raise them without help of family or a spouse.

I just don't know if going and dumping her right back at mom's is the best for her or doing it gradually. I huighly doubt that I can do anything over the weekend in one fell swoop, my ex needs to prepare for taking on our daughter full time again, I'd think that would be a bit of a scramble for her with work and everything.

Yes, the divorce and custody battle were all about my pride, I can admit that now. So I'm swallowing all of it.

What is "worthwhile" to me, is my daughter's 100% complete happiness. I thought our big house with the pool, the dog, a step mom and lots of kids in the neighborhood would make her happy. I was wrong.

Is it that wrong to admit I found out I'm the bread WINNER not MAKER?

Because from your response, you don't have a CLUE.  So you have found that you can't parent alone.  Great, at least you're honest about that.  But it's what YOU are doing to the 3 ladies in your life who have a vested interest in your honestly, namely your daughter, your wife, and your ex.  Yes, your ex, because you're talking about talking the EASY way out and just dumping your child back on your ex because it's 'too much' for you to handle.  No one ever said parenting was easy.  I've done it alone, too.  PD is doing it alone, but then he has a brain-dead ex who truly needs to stay out of her child's life so as not to screw it up anymore than she already has.

PD will be the first to tell you that the IDEAL situation would be 50/50 for the child.  I agree.  But you've got collateral damage going on here that ain't gonna go away.  You screwed up by NOT even talking to your wife about the custody issue in the first place.  Majorly.  If it had been me, I'd been sorely tempted to divorce you myself right then and there.  And tho your wife may be very indignant with the way you've treated her in this aspect, she certainly isn't acting mature in taking it out on your daughter, which is exactly what she's doing.  You BOTH need to grow up!

You've got more problems than just trying to parent your child.  You've made your bed and now you have to lie in it.  If your wife can't be adult enough to NOT take her latent anger against you on the child, what makes you think you two have any chance at a long relationship??  Dammit man, she's REJECTING your child!  That means she rejects you as well.  She knew when she married you that you were a package deal, whether or not your daughter was living with you or not.  Now, just because things aren't going the way SHE wants them to, she's taking it out on the one she sees as causing it all, your daughter, who is only an innocent victim of ALL of you in this.  

You've got some MAJOR fence-mending and soul-seeking to do, buddy.  The bottom line is your daughter, NO ONE ELSE, not your wife or your ex.  You can either suck it up and parent her, as is YOUR responsibility (sharing it 50/50 with her mother is best), or dump all your responsibilities on your ex and play weekend, fun-time daddy and kow-tow to your wife's pleasures.  Which way do you want it?

I would NEVER NEVER leave my husband alone with the stepkids just out of spite, resentment, or nastiness.

I married him KNOWING about his children and THEY should ALWAYS come first.

DH and I parent my son, 13 together, and his 2 boys, 8 & 10, TOGETHER!!

I can't imagine making DH choose between spending time with me or his chidren, and If DH ever tried to make me make that choice,  my son would win hands down!!

Don't choose your new wife over your daughter.  That can cause more damage than you know.  What kind of abandonment issues do you think that could cause?

Please work out the 50/50 custody plan and tell the new wife to either be a TEAM PLAYER or GET OUT!!

As you have probably read in my other responses, my wife isn't a troll or anything, just a mom who has been there done that and made me realize what I did and would do to my daughter because of it.

I won custody because I had the better attorney. I really didn't have to trash my ex. I had a house, a room for my daughter, a good neigborhood she lived with her mom in a condo when we sold the house, the home study is what won it for me really.  My ex's company downsized in the middle of our divorce, so for a while she was unemployed...things went downhill for her fast.

She is working now, has her own apartment, not that close but it's workable.

I'm not big on 50/50 where you send the kid back and forth like a tennis ball. I feel a child needs one primary decision maker, and home.

tell your ex wife that as your daughter gets older, you are discovering how much she really needs a Mom more than just every other weekend and maybe a night or so during the week.

Tell her you would like to work something out that she stay with you 1/2 the week and Mom 1/2 the week.  You can alternate weekends or do something like Sunday - Wed morning with Mom and Wed after school to Saturday Night with you.  Then your daughter gets BOTH parents that love her very much and it isn't overwhelming you. You pay what is needed in your house, Mom pays for what is needed in her house etc etc.......No child support is paid by either and you split school and medical stuff down middle.

Do you guys live close enough together that ex wife can get her to or from school easily?  If so this could work out great.  You would have free time then to do what you want with new wife.  That is if you even want to continue being married to her. Can't really tell if her is a marriage left or not. She seems to just want to go out and party.  

How does this sound to you? You aren't totally giving up your daughter this way.

Time for a parental reality check, bud.  You were NOT put on this planet to be a 'friend' to your child, to honor her every wish and make sure she is ALWAYS happy.  Life just isn't like that.  I have watched my own son, over the years, deal with many disappointments, some at the hands of his own father.  But that's life and I CANNOT shield him from all of it.  And if he doesn't learn rejection and disappointment with ME, he's gonna get hammered when he steps out into the real world.

He doesn't like it, but often I've told him, 'I am NOT your friend, I am your PARENT.'  No, I don't know how to 'fix' my son's hurt feelings, I can't explain it away or make it go away.  He MUST learn how to deal with it himself, if he is ever to cope in the real world.

And maybe your wife was trying to 'teach you a lesson', but at what cost?  Your daughter? In that aspect, she used YOUR daughter as a weapon against you.  A truly dispicable act, regardless of the intention.

And obviously you haven't learn yet that happiness canNOT be bought.  A big house, pool, dog, SM, and friends wouldn't make me happy either, if the SM resented my presence and I had a father who seemed to only give of his money, but not of HIMSELF.

It doesn't take much, take her with you when you run errands and talk, even if it's of silly things.  Ask her to help you as you work around the house, so you can do something TOGETHER.  Give of YOURSELF, your HEART.  Tha's what she wants, not money thrown at her.

I write one or two lines of my situation and you think you know the whole thing? I was concentrating more on my CHILD than my wife.

Yes she should have divorced me on the spot. The compromise was that she was going to stay hands off. My ex doesn't like her just for how things went down (other woman scenario) and she was pissed that I also expected her to take on my ex's role in the mother department. She is a single mom herself and made it very clear that my DD already HAD a mom. I was trying to forget that.

My wife is not "taking out latent anger" or "rejecting" my daughter. She made me see what parenting really is like. She refuses to take over when I don't kow what I'm doing. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO STOP MY DAUGHTER FROM CRYING! That isn't my wife's fault. It's MINE.

Now I need to fix it. My ex never wanted to lose custody of our child. It was a huge blow to her when she did, and for a while there, I reveled in it. I don't want to just DUMP my daughter back on her, I'm trying to find out the best way to approach it, how much time it should take, what things I need to consider so that for once I make everyone happy all at the same time.

So do you have any advice that may be useful in that area?

"the bottom line is your daughter" well no s*it sherlock. Why do you think I'm asking questions and subjecting myself to the grief I'm getting from people who would rather judge than advise.

Oh and it looks like peanutsdad is remarried so how exactly is he doing "alone"?

Then tell me which is worse for a child:  transitioning ONCE A WEEK and having the security of knowing she has TWO places she can call 'home'.  Or going to one parent for a couple days, just to barely get settled, only to be forced to go back. Knowing that one parent is actually a parent, while the other is just a 'visitor'.  There's MUCH more security and stability in a 50/50 arrangement than an EOW one.  Ask any child who's had to go thru it and they will tell you, the MORE time they got to spend with each parent, as equal as possible, the better they thrived.

Think of it this way.  If you have a one week on, one week off arrangement, your child would only be transitioning FOUR times a month.  With EOW, it would a minimum of 8, and that's if you don't include days/nights during the week.  Now, THAT's being a tennis ball.

And what's wrong with making joint decisions with your ex in regards to your child?  Wouldn't you be doing that if you were still married?

My wife and I have a very strong marriage. She is a no BS woman who taught me some valuable lessons when it come to putting kids first.

I have a very demanding job, that sometimes requires travel. We had explored shared custody at the start of things, but my ex and I didn't give birth to a tennis ball. Neither of us want that, and again, it would just be making my wife pretty much the primary care giver in my house, and that isn't right according to my wife.

We don't live close enough for the school split thing either. Not that that is a factor at the moment. I suppose we could do the split for now, but would yet ANOTHER change in the schedule just confuse my daughter more when school comes around? Or sghould we just come up with a EOW holiday occasional weekday if I can do it thing now?

That isn't what is going on here. She isn't making me choose my child or her. I asked her to marry me giving her a very different picture of what life would be like....then I got divorce/custody "tunnel vision"

She was willing to co-parent with me on a part time basis, not change her entire life around to accomodate being a full time mom to a 4 year old when my DD already has a perfectly capable mother. I made the mistake of not consulting with my wife.

My ex wife wanted counseling. I had refused, My wife, MADE me go. My wife figured out I was just battling for custody just for the fight long before I figured it out. .

Now she is making me fix it. My ex and I have a long way to go before we can be amicable again, but I hope to, for the sake of my daughter.

"forced" to go back. Interesting way to put it when my daughter at the moment doesn't even want to BE here. She wants to be with her mommy.

I'd rather be a weekend dad to my daughter when I have the actual time to spend with her that is QUALITY. Instead of a crabass dad who doesn't want to color during the week a half hour before she goes to bed when I get home.

**the MORE time they got to spend with each parent, as equal as possible, the better they thrived.**

well that would be fine wonderful and dandy IF I WAS GOING TO BE HOME. My wife clearly points out she is NOT my daughter's parent. If my ex is going to be home, and I'm not, who is my daughter better off with?

there is nothing wrong with "joint" decisions, but someone has to have the final say, otherwise you just argue forever.

My wife does something once, I mention it and you condemn her for it...do you mind not being so frigging judgemental? I was trying to put a point of the fact that I just don't know what I'm doing. Quit harping on her. This is about ME, MY DAUGHTER and what is best for HER.

Maybe, just maybe Kitty, some parents are only cut out to be buddies with their kids. I'm beginning to think I am one of them.

When I was married to my ex, I never changed a diaper, I never put a band aid on a cut I never nursed the kid through a cold. I expected the mom to do that. Just as I expected my new wife to do the same.

Just as I and all my siblings grew up with. My dad, to this day, is still a great buddy of mine.

Now for the last damn time, my wife does not RESENT my daughter, She loves me and she loves her, on weekeds we do things together all of us as a family. I had no business expecting her to take on the full time mom role. You think I did???

Then give her to your ex, plain and simple.  I even go the impression you'd do that ASAP, even this weekend if you could.  Only that your ex isn't prepared.  That's a good impression.

Sit down with your ex, set up an agreement and a parenting plan, give her time to get situated to have her on a full time basis, then have the agreement filed with your court file.  Or hand it over to her or your atty. and have them file it with the court, if you want a judge's signature to make it as legal as possible.

Seem's like a simple solution to me.

But before you do that, I would also recommend counseling for you and your daughter, both joint and separately with the same professional.  The poor child has been thru enough and, tho going to her mother full time may be what she wants and/or needs right now, it won't change the fact that she's been thru hell and this is just another 'transition' she's going to have to endure.  Because no matter how much she may seem to 'hate it' with you, handing off custody to your ex will still be viewed as rejection of her by you.  She's feeling rejected right now, not preparing her properly for this big a change will just solidify her fears.  

Look, you've apparently got a problem with honesty. I'm seeing that you've been dishonest with your new wife, your ex-wife, and your daughter. It bothered me that you want to go through this major transition in returning your daughter to her devastated mother (which you admit to having caused) without admitting to her that you'd made a mistake because "you'll never hear the end of it." Where is your remorse????  You want to send your child back without consequences for the hurt you've caused. Shame on you. You've hurt a lot of people for your own selfish gain. Honesty is sometimes all we've got anymore.. and this board exists because of all the liars out there .. devastating others for their own selfish gain (hear our pain!). I'm going through it with my ex.. and my DH's ex.

Start by making things right.. apologize to your ex for your behavior. (And your wife and your daughter for that matter) Then discuss with her how the two of you can parent your little girl with her suffering the LEAST consequences of your divorce.. because it's not her fault. What does that look like to your ex? What does that look like to you? I bet you'll find your daughter's Mommy has some good ideas on that.. and once you've admitted you were wrong and assure her you're not going to devastate her again.. she'll share them with you. If you were sincere.

Above all.. everyone.. please.. make honesty your policy!!

No, I wasn't "dishonest" with my new wife. We didn't communicate effectively. She wanted no involvement with my divorce, it was mine to handle and I took that to mean every aspect. When I was first getting divorced, I had no plan on going for full custody of my daughter, that changed, I didn't inform my current wife as per our agreement originally. Dishonest, no, my wife doesn't feel I was dishonest, so I really don't care if you feel that way. You weren't there.

Who said I didn't want to admit my mistake? I think giving custody back in and of itself is a HUGE admission. The "why's" behind it are irrelivant, and what happens if we get into the "why's" and my wife gets spiteful enough to talk to our daughter about it later? Hmmm? I'm trying to figure out the best approach here. I have no problem telling my ex that it is too hard of a job for me to handle, I never said I wouldn't say that. However what I'm not going to do is give her reason to put herself on a pedestal.

This board was a wealth of information and helpful advice on how to get my daughter, as well as how to transition her to my home, but now that I find I can't do it, all I'm getting is condemnation and very outlandish accusations instead of the advice I'm looking for.

Everyone needs to keep in mind that not everyone, including BOTH mothers and fathers, are not born or made good parents.  This guy has his child's happiness in the forefront, and took on the biggest job anyone can have, a FT parent.  

So, since you hadn't discussed with your wife about how having your daughter FT would affect her, and how she would feel about it, I say she is justified by her feelings.  I very much doubt she is intentionally hurting your daughter, and likely feels badly that she (being so young) cannot participate in their shopping adventures, etc., which is more difficult with a little one.  

You were raised primarily by your mother, and thought your wife would just step in those shoes.  Didn't happen.  You don't like the role you now have, and with your child's best interest at heart, you are considering revising the residential custody order.

Initially I thought of 50/50, like others did, however, if she begins school next year, that will not work with your distance factor.

So, what to do?  I say suck it up, explain to ex that your daughter needs her mom more than she needs you. Apparently you believe that, and you need to quit worrying about looking like a schmuck, you did this, now you must live with the consequences.  

Put your pride aside and go have a real heart to heart with your ex.  Don't bring up your wife...just tell her the truth.  Go for eow, one night during the week, and extended summers & holidays.  

What do you think your daughter will say about this?  Do you think she wants to live with mom?  

Well, that's all.  This isn't about Father's Rights...this is about the well-being of a little girl who appears very unhappy in her current situation.  Perhaps you should get a pet?  

Well gee, a full circle. Didn't I post originally that I wanted to give custody back to my ex, and asked the best way to go about it? I was never on the fence about it being the right thing to do, you people tried to talk me out of it and had a field day trashing my wife now.

Isn't a four year old a bit young for counseling? How would we relate to the same professional?

My DD gets very excited when her mom calls and when she knows mom is coming to get her, so I think she will be pretty happy.

LOL on the pet. Dumb dad here thought a puppy would help make the tears go away. It did for a few days, until the poop and piddle showed up all over the floor. My 16 year old SD was the one crying though, as the puppy ate her favorite shoe and then proceeded to poop on a shirt she liked as well. My DD, thought it was hillarious.

Yet another thing I didn't communicate with my wife on. Just brought the thing home.

I have really crappy communication skills. I admit that. Took me this long to learn it, and I don't know why I didn't in my first marriage, but then again my ex wasn't one for confrontation, my new wife, will pretty much kick my rear end if necessary. It's gotten to the point that my ex and I are so bitter having a heart to heart might lead to dagger throwing. Would it be a cop out to write a letter?

And thanks for seeing the big picture.

"Who said I didn't want to admit my mistake? "

You did...


(This is from your very first post...)

"I don't want to admit I was wrong because I'll never hear the end of it,"


"and what happens if we get into the "why's" and my wife gets spiteful enough to talk to our daughter about it later? Hmmm?"

A. You mean spiteful like you were during the divorce?

B. If the two of you are HONEST with each other.. and all apologies and admissions are out.. forgiveness is asked.. etc.. etc.. this shouldn't be an issue anymore. The policy has changed.

Well, if you hadn't slammed her yourself in your initial posts, we wouldn't have gotten that impression!  We were only basing our responses to what you posted, so I suggest in the future that you make sure the impression you're giving is the 'right' one.

Four is NOT too young for counseling.  DS is currently seeing a therapist who treats kids as young as yours and includes the families.  She's fantastic.  You need a child and family therapist, a specialist.

And with what you just posted to nosonew, it sounds like you need some lessons in communication as well.  Think of it this way, with the 'bombs' that you've dropped on your wife, how do you think YOU would feel if she did the same to you?   How would you feel if you came home one day, finding a $60,000 SUV parked in your drive, and your wife said, 'Oh, I didn't think you'd mind'?  Or a $125,000 Class A RV?  Think about it.  ANYTHING you do that could even remotely have an effect on the people closest to you has to be decided on jointly.  Heck, I have some major dental work that needs to be done, but until DH and I can figure out how we're going to pay for it, it's not going to be done.  I wouldn't just go out and get it done, even tho it's supposedly only going to affect ME, but he also pays bills in our home and it's another bill that we need to budget for, therefore HE must have a say-so in the decision, too.

Lol, I didn't want to go that far in my reply.  Since you did, I have to generally agree with what you're saying.  

Kids come first, no matter if you are married to the child's other parent, or not.  The wife never expected that this guy would get custody of the kid, and now she's po'd.  That's ridiculous.  In this world you have to roll with the punches, and I guess she can't.

I would go with at least a 50/50 plan, if not changing custody over to the mother.....of course with liberal visitation.  You know, if the wife will not accept the child, what else will she not accept???

You need to ALL go to FAMILY counselling and talk about this stuff.  Esp your new wife.

Oh for craps sake, she isn't pissed. She knew what type of parent I was before I figured it out.

Kitty C has that quote on the bottom of her posts, about having to have brick thrown at you...

my wife threw a brick at me for the sake of my kid.

She accepts my child, she doesn't accept my parenting, or lack thereof. Just as she was 100% into parenting, she expects me to be and I just don't have it in me. I wasn't putting my child first, I was putting MYSELF first. My WIFE made me see that. By giving custody back to my EX I'm putting my CHILD'S NEEDS FIRST.

saying that I don't want to, doesn't automatically mean I refuse to..I'd just rather not. It's uncomfortable due to the tension. If I don't hear the end of it, there is a chance my DAUGHTER won't hear the end of it either.  If there was a more constructive way around it I was open to those suggestions...that was what I was asking for.


And by the way, we were BOTH spiteful during the divorce. I haven't heard an apology out of my ex, nor do I expect it.


HAHAHA - divorced people being honest and open with each other...exactly what world do you live in? If that were the case, we wouldn't be divorced in the first place.

I didn't think I was slamming her I was trying to show what was going on with my daughter, what makes her cry.  I picked a lousy example. Hindsight I also should have put in there that my wife was trying to get me to see the other side of parenting by what she was doing.

Lessons in communication...you sound like my wife now =)

I'm slowly learning that how I grew up, isn't how things are in most cases.

Think I'll suggest teh counseling for my sdaughter to my ex, and let her find one she likes though. I don't have the first clue.

Watch the movie, Jersey Girl ASAP.  It deals with a single father who doesn't really know how to be a parent.  

I recommend that you keep your kid and think about changing careers so you can be a better parent.  You know, it really doesn't matter how much money you make or whatnot.  What matters is how you parent your child.  If your job makes you travel and be so tired, think about switching to something else so you can be there more, emotionally and physically.  I know you will probably say that is not possible, yada yada, but it is possible.  It's also possible to pick up and read some parenting books and/or attend a couple of classes.

Why especially my new wife?????

Have you not read everything I've posted? She has been the biggest influence on doing what is right my my daughter all along.

And my ex will never agree to stand in the same room with my new wife, muchless have counseling with her, so you can throw that idea out the window. Regardless if she owes my wife the world for forcing me to realize who the better parent for our daughter is.

one word. No. I love my work, it is an extention of me as it is a company I have built since I was 15. I own it. I love it. and I take great pride in what I do. Maybe if I worked for someone else it would be a different story. But I will not walk away from the work that has afforded me to live the way I want to, and allows my ex not to have to bother with child support when I got custody & if there is anything my daughter needs, it is not a problem. It is good to know at her tender age of 4, her college won't be an issue.  

I've made the decison to give my daughter back to her mom, and it is not a decision that has come without a lot of thought. I can not parent my daughter the way she needs to be parented. The way she is indicating she needs to be parented. There isn't a book in the world that I can read that is going to change that.

I had to take a parenting class for court, it was the dumbest thing I've ever been to.

Now, if you don't have advice on how to make this a smooth transition, please refrain from posting to me anymore.

It isnt about the adults, its about the children. It isnt about who looks bad, its about whats really best for your daughter.  
  "In the best intrest of the children"  should NEVER be about the adults.
  I'm fighting for my youngest daughter now and I have to put all of myself on the sideline and think of her. (sometimes someone has to knock me on the head for that to happen too.  ha ha)   Her father and I do not get along.  Just last week she had a function on my weekend close to his home. I wanted to take her and bring her back to my house and then have him have to come down and get her again (we live very far apart).  Then, someone told me, "You adults only drive on occasion, but the child ALWAYS makes the trips."  So, I took her to her funtion, we went to dinner, played around for a bit, then I dropped her off at her fathers door step.
  Instead of f*@#%ing him, I had a great time with my daughter.
Just something to think about.....

                                  Ladybug3

so true. It about our daughter, and what is best...and it took my wife battleaxing me since there was no way in hell's kitchen at the time I was going to listen to anything my ex had to say.

Will I miss having her around all the time? Sure. At night after I've rested, and she is already in bed, I go peek in to watch her breathe but being a parent doesn't mean watching them sleep.

My dad never went to PTA functions, and only occasionally did he make it to sporting events. He wasn't around a whole heck of a lot and I grew up thinking that was perfectly fine. In this day and age, it apparently isn't...but it is ingrained in me.

My ex is a good mom. We split because I met someone else. Wasn't planned but it does happen. I was wrong for accusing her of being a bad parent just because she was dealing with the emotioanl difficulties of being jilted for someone else. It was temporary, and I was the cause of it. My lawyer, and the boards I was posting to, flamed me into thinking it was a much deeper problem than that. I had her labeled as bi-polar and all sort of other "conditions". Blamed her for alienation when she refused to work with my schedule...it just went completely out of hand.

Hi bigsigh,

First of all, in answer to your question, are you the biggest schmuck in the world?...  seems like you have been that in the past, but you're not proud of it.

We grow and learn from our mistakes, from our suffering, from our challenges.

So, this is all part of your journey.

I read through many of the posts above, but not all of them.

You've got four people whose welfare you've committed to support (i.e., your daughter, your wife, your stepdaughter, and yourself), and it's up to you to figure it out.

Only you know the answer of how to pull that off.  Last time you asked everyone for advice a couple years ago, how'd that turn out for you?

You DO have an opportunity to become a more involved dad than your own father was.  It's hard work, I know that personally, because my dad was pretty detached while we were growing up.

Us men are generally good at working long hours with emotional detachment in relationships.  It's exhausting-- however-- for many of us to work long hours in relationships needing an emotional connection.

But, if we exercise that regularly, it becomes easier with time.

I'm going to suggest that you may want to see someone individually to aid you with your communication and emotional connection to others.  The communication lacks because there seems to be limited empathy in the moment.  Upon reflection (i.e., when pointed out to you by other's words or actions), you DO have empathy for others.

When you start knowing IN YOUR GUT what you must do, your life will be pretty awesome because you'll make decisions for all the right reasons.  But it takes much work on oneself, and with much introspection, to get to that place.

Again... you have a four year old daughter with a bright future ahead of her if she has good access to two available parents.  You'll have a great relationship with her if you make yourself emotionally available and supportive.  You have a wife who you seem to care for, and I would presume vice versa.

You've got a winning hand, but you haven't put it all together yet.  Quit dicking around and grow up.  Make some decisions like a mature, empathetic adult-- and that includes learning how to be a nurturing father to a little girl.

Your life will never be perfect, and those around you will never be 100% happy.  But if you work hard, you can achieve the best possible scenario for everyone; and you'll find ever-increasing fulfillment with your life.

Sincerest wishes for you.

DD

If you can't sit down with her...perhaps you will be able to in the near future. Write the letter, after really, really thinking about it.  Explain that you want to co-parent, etc., etc.

And, perhaps try and read a book or two about communication.  Once you know you have a problem, you HAVE to try to work on it!  And always remember, anything you do or say, does affect that other special person in your life.  This current marriage isn't going to last long if you don't remember that.  

Good luck!

You told me to refrain from posting to you if I couldn't offer ways to make the transition easy.  From reading your first post, I thought that you either wanted advice on how to parent better, how to make your new wife be involved, or IF you should give your daughter back to your ex.  Apparently you have already made up your mind that your business is a priority over your child.  I still recommend you go and rent Jersey Girl.  Just do it for the heck of it as it will be a BIG wake up call.  Do you think your daughter will care if you can pay for her college or buy her toys, in comparison to her remembering that you colored with her or taught her how to do things?

As far as the transition goes, what's hard about calling up your ex and telling her that she needs to have the girl back and this is how much you are willing to pay in child support and leave the ball in her court?  How could you make the transition any easier?  GO TO COUNSELLING or at least get your daughter in it.  She will be feeling that you don't love her or want her and no matter what you say that is how she will feel.  She will need to be in play therapy to get over her pain and confusion.

my wife got me books on effective personal communication. I've read all the ones in regard to business communication, have that down to a science but you don't have to be "touchy feely" in business...

and in all honesty, it isn't like I've broached the subject of sitting down and talking, I'm just assuming the worst will happen.

She is supposed to pick up DD tomorrow, maybe I'll bite the bullet then...

"This board was a wealth of information and helpful advice on how to get my daughter, as well as how to transition her to my home, but now that I find I can't do it, all I'm getting is condemnation and very outlandish accusations instead of the advice I'm looking for. "

This is why you are getting condemnation: being a parent isn't a choice.  It's a responsibility.  You say, "now that I find I can't do it" and that statement alone speaks a million words.  You can do it.  You are choosing not to do it.  May I ask an outlandish question?  What if your ex passed away?  Would a nanny be raising your daughter or would you step up to the plate?

well then "ya know" you just don't read very well.

If I had wanted advice on how to be a better parent, I'd have asked, "what do you suggest I do to be a better CP". Or had I wanted my wife more involved I would have asked "what can I do to get my wife more involved?"

Not, how do I go about giving my daughter back to my ex.

I think I was pretty clear on my intention from the get go.

And no you judgemental idiotic twit, my business isn't more imortant than my child. My child's FEELINGS are more important than anything. And she damn well better appreciate the fact that I can set her up with a future at the age of 18 instead of coming to me at graduation saying remember the time we colored clifford the dog purple when I was 6? What makes you think I can't still teach my daughter things on the weekends or other times I have her?

What's so hard about just "calling up my ex"??? Maybe it's the huge amount of tension and the very limited and strained communication we do have.  Maybe because 1/2 the time I do call, esp when my daughter isn't with her, she hangs up on me.

Yes it would be pretty easy to just dump the ball in my ex's court, but that isn't exacly the most responsible way of doing it now is it? By trying to come up with a plan I'm showing I care about my daughter's well being, not just dumping her like a pound dog.

Movies ARE NOT reality. I won't go watch some hollywood flick that is billed as a comedy (not even a documentary) with Ben Afleck & Jennifer Lopez that was produced by the guy who also did "Jay and Silent Bob"...and call that a learning experience.

I agree with DD.  So  many Dads out there would give anything to be in your position because they DON'T have their babies.  Time to eat crow with your ex.  Get a parenting plan together that gives your ex primary custody with 50/50 legal.  Make sure the agreement is such that you and your daughter have access to each other at any time.  Be there for your daughter, make sure she knows she can always count on you.  Have this prepared for your ex, I'm sure she'll take whatever she can get and appreciate the fact that you are owning up to your weaknesses and are willing to work on them FOR your daughters sake.  All children need their Daddies, but the bond between a Father and Daughter is very special.  Take care of your little girl, admitting you did wrong is the first step.  Doing everything you can to make it right is your life's work.

Nice.

Movies, aren't reality, DUH?  Really?  LOL!  Movies can have good MORAL points to them to learn from.  So you don't like Jay and Silent Bob, the director is capable of much more my friend.

Call me judgmental but you laid out the situation for what is was worth and now are going back on what you first presented the situation as.  Not just with my perceptions, but with others in this thread.

If you are wealthy, how about you get a counselor and attorneys to handle this for you and give you direction, instead of a bunch of people on an internet message board?  Why not buy the professional opinion, instead listening to people who are being so judgemental and unfair because we "don't get it".

**Last time you asked everyone for advice a couple years ago, how'd that turn out for you?**

good and bad. I got some great legal advice, but was also pushed into believeing my ex had all sorts of mental problems and couldn't care fo my daughter correctly because of them, when really she was just temporarily incensed at me and we were in the middle of a divorce that was ugly, a lot of property, money etc, and admittedly now, she got hosed.

I'm not sure which board it was on, here or another site, but I got talked into filing for full custody based on an e-mail exchange I had posted, and discussion about a confrontation related to it. I had a pit bull attorney, anything I wanted, I got.  I broke my ex's bank account, and then her spirit. It didn't take much to do it. But places like this fanned flames that never should have been I think. Too quick to think the worst and do the most extreme in retaliation.

I already am more involved with my daughter than my father ever was, even before I got custody, I think as she gets older I will get even more, but right now, I just don't understand her, she doesn't understand me and it is just hard on both of us. I think I'll be a better dad when she hits the teen years. I get along great with my wife's daughter.

I can't turn nurturing over night. I'd rather not make my daughter suffer day in and day out while I work on it. She has a very nurturing parent in the form of her mom. My wife helped me realize that.

If you are truely sure about this, since it will be heck to even attempt to ever change again. I think it would be best to have an adjustment period with more and more time with mom, over several weeks to months time span.

Do not approach it as telling your ex she can have daughter back, you need to ASK your ex. It sounds to me like she simply may not be in a position to take daughter back, after the financial divorce devastation.

Dont worry about fathers rights, concern yourself with what is best for your daughter. How long has your daughter been with you? That may have something to do with her water works, more so then you not being the dad you thought you would be. I dont mean that to sound mean, I am stating a fact. I DOUBT that any of us parents can say we are everything we thought we would be in the parent department. It is dang hard work, and every parent has their faults, weather they are capable of admiting those faults or not.

Part of being human is making mistakes, we all have made them! Part of being a parent is admitting the mistakes, as you have done here. Truely I dont think you or your new wife are awful people at all, I think you are both human, and have a different goal then full time parenting. Which of course is fine, assuming your ex can and will take it over.

I hope I have helped some. Good luck

considering the fact I posted on the FATHER'S board I was looking for other FATHER'S opinions.

I love Jay & Silent Bob....but I also know the difference between comedy, drama and documentary. I don't go see a comedy for the message darling, I go to laugh my ass off. From what I hear, Jersey Girl STUNK. And if that is the type of thing you base your life on getting messages from - you have serious problems.

YOU are the one who isn't "getting it". Of course, call me an "internet troll" just because I didn't give the correct perspective on my first post and had to redirect it. How adult of you.

Attorneys are sharks, and they are only interested in getting you want you pay for. I'm not interested in "buying" an opinion. I already feel like I bought my daughter's custody.

Why a message board? Because amid the twits like yourself are people like kitty c and others who after some back and forth dialoge help to get to the real issue, and come up with some sound thoughts & options.  

Who are you to assume this is the ONLY place I'm seeking advice from anyway? That, by the way, is a rhetorical question.

I realize there are a lot of fathers out there who are probably going WTF are you thinking!! Part of why I made the initial father's rights comment.

However I didn't get custody of my daughter from a lousy mom, I just got custody from a lousy attorney (hers) at a time I was thinking only of myself. Time to correct that.

Thanks for the kind words.

I edited it right away.  I am not calling you a troll.

Jersey Girl spoilers below....

Don't call me a twit again.  I offered you SOUND advice, but apparently if one does not cater to you or say it exactly how you want it, too bad too sad.  Sound advice is to go to counselling and also to watch a movie that deals with a father who really doesn't want to be a father but he learns to deal with it, and it included losing the best job he ever had.  Small price to pay for being a GOOD father to his daughter.

Your honesty is overwhelming, and while you don't want to place blame on the 'new wife' and shouldn't, she is 50% of the problem.  It was not that far fetched for you to think that she would be there for you, for your daughter.  While you should have discussed this with her before you won custody.  How can she LOVE you and treat your child like that?  Will she continue to treat your child that way when she comes for weekend visits?  Doesn't sound like the kind of person you would want around your child.  Who is more important here the child or the 'new' wife?  

I don't mean to sound harse, I admire a father who will go after custody of his child, admire a man who will give 100% to raise his child.  Its hard to be mom and dad, honestly you don't have to.  Be dad, let mom be mom.  Bet if you were honest with mom she would be a great source of HELP to you and daughter.  Pride is a powerful thing, don't let it cost your daughter.

I hope you find peace for yourself, and your daughter.  This must be a terrible spot to find yourself in.  I hope things work out for you all!

she's been with me going on 7 months now, three months ago is when my wife made me take on "full parenting responsibiilty" (and she is one hell of a hard ass) so I know what my limitations are. If the waterworks were getting better and not worse, I'd probably stick it out but I AM my father's son. I hear him in me when I try (and the operative word here is TRY) to dicipline my DD. That won't change.

A transitonal period, somewhat like when a parent is absent and gets reintroduced you mean? That type of timeframe?

I bet it was Dad's Divorce.....that place is MUCH more radical then this.  They say go for the throat.....and people here will encourage shared parenting and the parents trying to cooperate.

Believe me, your ex will have MUCH more respect for you if you come clean with her.  Take your time in commmunicating with her, do it initially with a letter or e-mail, if that's more comfortable with you.  You could break it with 'I've been having some thoughts on us making some changes in regards to our daughter..................if you'd be open to it, I'd like to discuss them with you.'

It's that first step that's always the hardest.  

And big sigh?  I want to apologize if I offended you in any way.  Now that I realize that the situation isn't what you initially portrayed it to be, I have a totally different opinion of it.  It's obvious that you love your daughter very much and you also realize that you are a product of your environment, we learn to parent from our parents.  You can't fix what you don't acknowledge and I think you're well on your way to righting some wrongs in your life.  I admire you for that.  

I still recommend counseling or a therapist, since you both have been thru so much.  Someone had mentioned your ex and wife too...and realize that we're not talking about everyone altogether at the same time!  We're talking about communications and feelings......I'm sure that your wife isn't totally unfeeling to what's been going on and counseling can help clear the air, so to speak.  Wiht your ex, it can help rebuild your communication with her and help her make the adjustment, along with your daughter.  With my son, it was imperative that I be there, and include DH as well, or we'd never had known how to deal with what he was going thru.  We needed to be educated, too.

Good luck with your daughter and let us know how everything turns out!

Edit or not, at one point you did call me a troll, doesn't change the fact that is was put out there. I could have called you worse than a twit.

I'll read books on the subject of parenting & communication, I will watch DOCUMENTARIES as it pertains to the subjects I'm dealing with. I will quickly disregard the advice to go see a COMEDY in regard to my parenting as I do feel it is assinine. I don't have to agree with every bit of advice I'm given. With that in mind, I never negated counseling as an option.

I wouldn't be "losing the best job I ever had" I'd be throwing away a company I built from the ground up that *GASP* if my daughter so chooses can take over when she becomes of age and will always have security. Why throw away certainty for uncertainty in the midst of such horrible economic times. THAT is what garnered you a twit. You have no business sense whatsoever.

Cathrine, I deal with here and now. I'm not even going to give your "outlandish" question any consideration because that is not the subject at hand at the moment and all you are trying to do is be argumentative.

Yes, parenting is a responsibility. And it is a responsibliity my ex wife WHO STILL IS LIVING AND BREATHING is better at than me on a day to day basis. I find no fault in admitting that.

I'm not terminating my parental rights for god's sake, stop acting like I am.

Yes kind of. In my situation it had been years of absense, with a weaning in type period when the relationship was reintroduced. Your situation is not the same, since it appears that the mom does get visitation.

Say mom gets every other weekend right now, then for the next month (again assuming mom is willing) adjust it slowly by adding a day or 2 to the weekends. I am not totally sure since my sd was a little older when her mom wanted to start seeing her again. For a four year old, I say take it slow. 7 months to her is a long time to have been with you, I do think it best to wean in more time here or there, before an actual move. My sd adjusted fine, and I dont see her suffering from the transition of having no visitation for 3 years, to now what is a normal visitation schedule in divorce.

I also dont think your daughter will feel you are rejecting her, as I have read a few reply's the imply that. My sd does not remember those years that she went without her mom (from 2-5years old). It also appears that her mom and her have nurtured a good relationship, with every other weekend. At her age of 4, now would be a better time then when the child IS old enough to remember.

Given that you've made up your mind...

Kids are resilient.  Don't worry too much about the best way to do it.  She can be completely readjusted within a few weeks.  Part of her unhappiness is liking sensing your own struggles with caring for her.

If her mom is healthy, and if they have had a strong bond, everything will be fine.  If what you say is true, her mom isn't going to hesitate to take more time.

Don't broach the subject in front of your daughter, obviously.

I think you can call your ex and start the conversation with, "I've been feeling more and more that it'd be best for daughter if you and she spent more time together.  I'd really like to work with you to figure out a new schedule, if you're open to that.  Do you need some time to think about this?"

Her mom may ask probing questions, and it's up to you to be as open as you'd like.  The apologies and openness may come much later, BTW.

I'd suggest a schedule that gives you and your wife enough freedom to keep your marriage healthy.  I'm sure your wife would be fine if you had alternating weekends without your daughter.

I'd likewise suggest a schedule that gives you frequent contact with your daughter.  For example, what if you had dinner with her on every Tuesday and Thursday?  You could pick her up in late afternoon (e.g., 3pm or 4pm) and either do a sleepover or just dinner until 7:30pm or so.

Then with every other weekend from 5pm Friday to 9am Monday, you also have nice long periods.

Work out vacation periods too so that mom can have a nice chunk of time during the summer, as can you when you want to go to Disneyworld or Hawaii with your daughter.

You're really starting from scratch here, and you're in a position to determine how much time you want to give up.

Perhaps part of your repentence can be paying for these new orders to be drafted and filed.  Follow state guideline on child support-- that's only fair.

In all this, make a commitment to yourself that because you have consciousness about your challenges, you can improve on them with every passing year.

You and your ex-wife had a very adversarial divorce.  The two of you have a second chance to do it in a way that you're both discussing what's best for your daughter.  Not many divorced parents have that hindsight and awareness to do it right the second time.

DD

Probably was DD, but I also remember a guy named Brent, and I think he's here, who gave me some really cut the ex's throat advice. I was posting to several places.

You didn't offend me, it takes a bit to get a point across on a message board. I didn't spell things out correctly in the beginning as it was. No harm no foul. In the end you offered up some very considerate advice and for that I am appreciative.

I went to counseling with my ex (at my wife's insistance) and that was a disaster, maybe if it was brought up (and I think you advised it) as a family counselor, one who deals with kid's too it might work.

My wife has been "working with me" on my communication, and for the first time in my life I've been receptive to trying. Never did with my ex. My wife would be willing to go to counseling in regard to my ex, but my ex flat out refuses to communicate with her so there really is no point.

I'm half tempted to let my ex know that if it weren't for my wife, I'd never even be considering giving her back custody...just to see if it calms the waters between them a bit. Help her understand my wife didn't "steal" her family.

when I was married to my first wife, she worked part time, DD went to care a few hours a week just for the social interaction of it but she really was around mom all the time.

I'm not a proud man to admit this, but while my ex and I were divorcing, she was on anti-depressants and her dr changed what she was on and she had a bad reaction to it that put her in the hospital. My lawyer manipulated it to sound as if she had a useage problem with it and I got emergency custody which turned permanent. So my DD went from all the time with mom to virtually nothing. Then pretty much standard of which she never misses a minute. She is careful not to ask for more time, although I know she is dying for it. (I still talk to her brother, he works for me)  

I don't feel my daughter will think I'm rejecting her either. She will get love from both sides when she is with each of us, and I'll be more receptive to giving it.

Wow, lots of comments.

Everybody has their take on the situation and I think even the most "judgmental" opinions should be helpful because that could be how some of your friends and family may see it.  One thing though, that I feel is that not every situation needs a "sit down" or "counseling" or "heart to heart" with everybody involved. Sure eating crow with your ex may make her feel better and you might feel forgiven but that act of confessing itself doesn't do anything beyond that. I think "talk therapy" and bringing everything out in the open is over rated. Too many TV shows now a days show people "telling all" and I think people think that is the way real relationships are resolved. I think in the real world, things are more often resolved without talking. Lots of things are expressed by action with no words. Sometimes you have to accept that you will never get the opportunity to really say what you want to a person and that person is also probably not going to get round to telling you their heart and soul. You just have to accept things as they are and be happy with the actual actions. Always try to do the right thing and other people will eventually see what you are about.
Regardless of the fact it will be uncomfortable for you to give your little girl back and you want to save face and all, I felt from your post that you do know what is the right thing to do. I would say don't worry about explaining or apologizing just do it.  Your ex was married to you, and knows your communication skills.  I would stay silent rather than saying things that might make things worse like "here you can have the girl back, I can't take care of her" or "My new wife couldn't replace her mom like I had hoped". I think just an acknowledgement that you were hoping your little girl could spend more time with her mom is sufficient. So what if your ex  thinks "ha! now he is giving her back because he can't handle parenthood! serve him right!" The little girl is getting what she needs.  Same with talking to the little girl, kids are really forgiving and time heals all wounds. Love for her father and your love for her is not in question, just how you are going to express it. Better late than never.

mom is very healthy. I basically feel like we need to do a total role reversal. What HER schedule is fits better to what I should have, and could be a good parent during.

I don't look at it as giving up anything if it makes my daughter happy. I can't get hung up on *my* time and *her* time.

I want to go back to how it was when we first were getting divorced. The temp agreement we had worked well. Everyone was happy with it until I got a bug lodged up my hindquarters.

I just tried to call her now (feeling a tad bold) and was promptly hung up on. Isn't she going to kick herself when I tell her what I was trying to call about, huh?

oh, my wife didn't want to hurt my daughter's feelings. It was pretty much the only way (since she tried everything else) to get the message through my rather thick skull that I was an ass to both my ex and my little girl. I explained the situation better in further posts.

My choice won't cost me my daughter, it will hopefully gain me a better parenting relationship with my ex in the long run.

My husband is just like you. Not to sound like a martyr or anything, but had he had a choice in the matter, and not had someone stepping up to the plate for his daughter, there is no way in heck he should have custody of his daughter. In fact the whole reason him and I met is from an ad he placed in the paper for a nanny. At the time he was left with 2 kids, one of which was a 18 month old baby, who my husband had no idea how to take care of. Therefore he hired a live in nanny, and well I guess the rest is history.

This doesnt make him a bad father, or you for that matter. We all do what we can, it just so happened that my husband found the help he needed right away, otherwise my sd would probably be raised by her grandma or something right now. Some fathers arent cut out for that part of child rearing, and some mothers arent cut out for it either.

Your new wife is simply what I have seen called "disengaged", and I dont blame her for that. It was probably the best thing she could of ever done, it gives you the side of parenting you hadnt seen yet. Babbling now but I do wish you the best of luck, and I understand you situation a bit.

**So what if your ex thinks "ha! now he is giving her back because he can't handle parenthood! serve him right!"**

LOL yeah, I suppose with everything in a way she kinda deserves to feel that way...

I never tried to turn my daughter against her mom, and mom knows, recognizes and has said she appreicates that. I guess I just worry that she might do it to me after all is said and done.

Then again that is just another bridge to cross if I come to it and it isn't even in binocular site yet.

According to your post your new wife is the reason you were rushing through the divorce.  You didn't have to take custody, you didn't have to fight for it.  YOU didn't want it.

Sounds like a bad relationship to begin with if you had never discussed the possibility of your d coming to live w/ you and her feelings and your expectationt to do nothing and have her raise your child.

Not all CP fathers expect their wives to raise their children.  WHERE WERE you when you were married to your ex that you dont know how to soothe her?

My dh is CP dad.  HE does most of the raising of my ss.  I help him alot- but I want to do that.  He had ss w/ him before he ever met me.  Not every remarried man thinks like you do.  Some want to be a father.

Jeez.  It isn't hard.  If she hangs up- send a letter.  I highly doubt if she knew you were offering to give her her d back she would react poorly.  You step up and explain your feelings and ask her if she is willing to work out some type of an agreement with you.  Increase her overnights to 4 a week and then to whatever you agree to after that.  If she is seeing d now it should not be hard on your d.  It is probably what she wants.

Ha, yeah, you reap what you sew.

She'll be spitting bullets at you for quite a while, given what you've put she and your daughter through.  But that too can be healed with time.

Maybe leave her a message when you know she's not there, saying you'd like to talk about changing the schedule in a way that's better for daughter.

Then she won't hang up on you next time.

I was falsely accused and ended up in jail.  In the past three years, my ex conjured 150 to 200 allegations against me, varying in gravity.  I ended up taking a polygraph to stop a child abuse investigation before it could begin.

It all distracted the bulk of the custody litigation from the real issues.

I share that to say... if my ex came to me and said she wants to apologize and wants our daughter to spend more time with me (i.e., though it doesn't sound like I did as poorly as your ex), I'd take the extra time, get it all signed, and then still tell her to F herself for what she did during our three years of custody litigation.

It may be years before your ex feels differently.

DD

Is that you namecall and totally overreact.  The line "You have no business sense whatsoever. " KILLS me.  Family isn't a business.  I had a Dad who was a successful enterpreneur who made sure I wasn't wanting for things.  I appreciate that, but I wish that I had spent more quality time with him.  To me, it's the memories that count.  Your daughter is likely young enough to not remember this.

Stop insulting people who you perceive as "judging you".  I am going off of what you have said.  It's only after you received critisicism that your story has changed.

I'll leave you alone now, as there seems to be a lot of people who are more than willing to appease you.

"How do I do this without looking like the biggest schmuck on the planet?"

Too late!

Who said they all do?

Not to mention, what business is it of yours where I was or how that makes any difference? I'm not married to the woman I don't have to "soothe" her.

I don't have to defend my choice of sending my daughter back to her mom. It doesn't mean I dont want to parent it means I admit she is BETTER at it than I am...and she has more time to be there for my daughter than I do...is there something so horribly wrong with that?

Wait, don't bother answering I know you will find something. I'm sure you hate your DH's ex...my wife doesn't hate my ex, she wants what is best for my daughter, and she is drilling home that the tow of us (my ex and I) need to work together to parent, not pass our child off on our respective new spouses (if and when my ex ever remarries)

if you don't have anything constructive to say to me, get off the string.

you are not worth the effort of posting to. You are clueless and just another twit who only wants to cause trouble.

if you don't have something produtive and useful to add, go piss up a rope.

.

.

more than likely, but even if she does spit bullets at me, she has more time to spend with our daughter, and she really does understand her better than I ever will...

so I guess I'll just have to wear a flak jacket whenever we speak. =)

All I have is her cell number, and although she is listed, she never actually gave me her home number (we both agreed on that count for both of us) so she is never "not there". I wouldn't be surprised if she has a special ring on the thing alerting that it is me.

She either answers or lets it go to VM when our daughter is with her, so I'm guessing I'll at least have to breach the subject then.

Sorry to hear about the hell you have been through. I thought I stooped pretty low on exaggerating the med situation...child abuse? That is horrible.

I was talking about YOUR DAUGHTER.  You know, the person you forgot about because you wanted to screw your ex over b/c YOU HAD SOMEONE NEW and wanted to move on.

If she is a better parent you never should have taken her to begin with.  You thought your wife would raise her and you would never have to deal w/ your d.   Now that you realize it isn't true you want to get rid of your d b/c you dont want the responsibility.

as long as you're willing to swallow your pride, do what's best and right for your daughter, make whatever amends you have to and start off on a new foot.  Painful, perhaps, but better for all involved.  I think you'll all benefit.

Best of luck!

Mike

Suing someone for their child that I dont want.  You give fathers a bad name.  Give her back to someone who loves her and cares.

You lack any amount of MATURITY.  Your 4 y/o is probably more mature then you are.  Excellent role model!

I also think before you do ANYTHING you need to go talk to a child psychologist.  Call your child's pediatrician and see if they recommend someone.  Call your attorney and see if they have a list as well.

Out of curiosity...did the court find your ex unfit in anyway?  

I saw that you had already called your ex....you need to stop following your first impulse!!!!!  Talk with someone first, since you already acknowledge you have problems at times effectively communicating I think you would be well served to talk with someone to make sure you don't say something stupid!  I mean that in a constructive way!  

It's great that you admit you made a mistake and you want to do right for your DD..that is admirable...but you need to make sure that however you handle it you ensure it is handled the best way for your daughter!

yes, I agree, and Kitty C too.

Rasin and Cathrine can take a long walk off a short pier.

No, the court didn't find my ex-wife unfit per se. The court agreed she was is pretty bad shape mentally (but guess who put her there) but it was more the living condition at the time than that. I paid out the rear for a private home study, she had to go with whatever the state provided for her and the reports were apples and oranges. As I said in a previous post, my attorney over dramatized her reaction to the new medication, and I didn't do anything to stop him...

me? say something stupid? never =)

My wife is helping me draft a letter to my ex. I think that is probably the best route to go. I think I only called just because I knew she wouldn't talk to me, it was a "guy guts" move.

I really want to stress to my ex that it was my wife who helped me understand who the better full time parent would be, in hopes my ex might at least TRY to get along with my wife and my wife says I shouldn't say anything like that. Opinion?

hey, if you want to see it through a bitter pair of bifocals, be my guest.

At the time, she wasn't being the best parent, I wasn't so sure she'd snap out of the downward spiral she was going into so on the advice of A LOT of people, including my lawyer, I acted on it.

My ex pulled herself up by the bootstraps, and I admire her for that, now I question if my choice to gain custody was impulsive or not but it could be me doing that made the difference between my ex staying in a funk or getting back to who she was. No one will ever know.

The point is, when she is healthy, she is the more nurturing parent who has the most time to provide for our child. She has more patience and she is female so she understand our daughter's needs better.

Not once did I EVER say I'd NEVER have to deal with my child when it came to my new wife, I expected her help. My wife feels the "first responders" to a child should be the biological parents. She will play back up only when either my ex or I can't take care of something and only then, and only if my ex agrees to her helping. I can respect that.

Now get the hell off my ass and my string. I'm doing what is best for my daughter the best way I know how you shriveled up prune.

*Nicole*, I was only stooping down to your and catherine's level so that you could better understand that you are NOT WORTH MY OR ANYONE ELSE'S TIME.

Advesarial & insulting seem to be the only languages the two of you speak.

#1 - never said I didn't want my child, through the 7 month journey she has been here I have come to realize how hard it is to parent, admire my ex's ability at it (when she is not going through a rough time) and want to give my daughter the best of both of us. I give my best to her on weekends, holidays and vacation time. Sometimes, you have to suck it up to the fact that that is the life hand you are dealt. Not everyone is cut out to be a full time parent, I tried, I gave it a valiant effort, but my ex wife is just plain BETTER at it than I am. Why put my child through the hell of my learning process, oir expect my wife to pick up my slack when she already has a "seasoned professional" she can be taken care of by?

#2 - You give step mothers a worse name by being such a bit*h, you need to take some lessons from my wife. I think most biological mothers would kill to have a step mom in the picture who is more in tune with the mom's side than adamantly standing by the husband, just because she is married to him. That describes my wife. She is neutral, and calls it like she sees it, even if it means calling me on my big mistakes.

#3 - um, wasn't that the intent of my original post? To find a way to send my daughter back in the easiest transition possible?

You can't make your ex see that your wife helped you figure this out.  

It is going to take time for this to play out....you just have to be patient and hope for the best in the long run.

I agree with your wife...don't even bring her into it.  This is about you, your ex and your DD....your wife is right.

She also knows her own emotional limitations and isn't afraid to admit them.  I like that!

Mike

Dammit. She always is. =)

Have nothing to do with the child.  That poor girl must feel the love as she sits there and cries and you dont know what to do and your wife refuses to help.

I have helped raise my ss since he was 3 b/c unlike your daughter he does not have a loving mom to do so.

What is so hard about just sending her back?  It has only been 7 months, she still sees her mom.  I cannot figure out what the problem is.  She is going to get a lot more love and attention there.  Call her mom and talk to her.  If she hangs up call and leave a message.  Once she hears what it is about she will take your call.  If she doesn't then maybe you would need to reconsider sending your d back there.

I didn't call you a name did I?

I truly do think it is a good thing that you want to do right by your d.  But this is rocket science.  Just tell her mom and switch custody.  It hasn't been that long, she is 4 and she will be happier getting love and attention from someone.  

I appreciate your honesty.  Your wife seems like a smart woman.  I've read through all the follow up replies and it seems like she is looking out for the best interests of your little girl.  

Okay, your ex wife is not speaking to you.  Can you blame her?  Have you considered hiring an attorney to speak with her?  You're going to need one anyway.  How about a mutual friend, or perhaps a member of her family?  

I don't know her financial or living situation, but if you can afford it, you could make things better for your ex wife and little girl.  You'll be paying child support, but perhaps you could help the ex move into a larger place.  If 50/50 won't work, then make sure you outline a liberal visitation plan.  Have you thought about this?  The little one isn't in school yet.  If your ex is working, she's going to have to arrange for childcare.  Is this good for your girl right now?  

Like I said, I appreciate your honesty.  Not many people can admit to being wrong.  Righting this situation will help everyone, including you.  I wish you and your family a satisfactory resolution to this situation, and most importantly, peace and harmony.

And I can see a few things.

1) You are willing to give up on your daughter, but not your business. So your work is more important, you struggled with this company since you were 15. But somehow you can't manage a four year old on your own. Yeah..

2) You cheated on your ex, yet you were bitte rand wanted to ruin her life. Hmm..

3) Your daughter cries and you can't figure out why. Maybe because she knows she isn't wanted and no one wants her in your house. She's lonely and sad. Geez, what can't you figure out.

4) You totally put down your wife in your first post and then when people agree with her behaviour, you make a 360 turn and sudden;y she's the best thing since sliced bread.

That poor kid is being neglected.

Save your breath and don't bother to slam me because that poor kid is the only thing that counts so yeah give her to her mom asap and live your own life and obviously she won't be a part of it.

I give you about a year with EOW and holidays and slowly you will stop the visits and become an absent dad.

Whats wrong with telling your EX just what you said right here?
 I think its sincere and I think she would respond to something like this possitively.


Ladybug3

Oh I don't blame her for not speaking to me at all. I'd probably be worse if the situation was reversed. She was chewed up and spat out in court.

I have an attorney, he's the one who did the chewing...and my wife and I both feel that by going that route, all she is going to think is that this lawyer has something else up his sleeve. If anything, it's better coming from me first in some form. Not to mention if I do go to my attorney, he will do his best to try to talk me out of it. Then charge me $2500 for the lip service.

My ex now has a pretty nice apartment of her own. I don't want to end up supporting them totally and, I'll be honest, I feel if I extend out that far, I'll get taken advantage of. If with substantial child support she doesn't feel she can adequately afford to care for our daughter, then I'll have to rethink the entire thing, but she isn't frivolous with the dollar, so I'd assume she has a way of working things out. That is all parce and parcel with the discussion we have to have.

Our daughter, when she isn't moody is very social, loves other kids and I personally feel if she had to go to child care it wouldn't be an issue, regardless of the other things going on.

When I wrote that initial post, I was in a very frustrated mood, my daughter isn't THAT bad off, but I do know her well enough to know who she would be happier with. I had hoped for different, and I gave her time to adjust...it just isn't happening the way it should so there is no need to frustrate things further.

so just quit wasting your time typing on this string. You really are just wasting bandwidth & my interest in anything you have to say is pretty much nil.

stop. just stop. I have no interest in your comments.

There is  A LOT that is involved with switching custody. The mental health of my child is a HUGE consideration. Many of the posters here have suggested I speak to a child psych and I believe they are right.

There are fiancial considerations. Travel arrangements.  If my ex is actually able to take her right away or if she needs time to set things up.

My visitation schedule needs to be discussed. I'm not going to do this if she turns around and refuses to let me see my DD out of spite. Thre has to be something written down and filed. That takes time.

I have no idea what her job hours are, she may ahve to change things around...she may even want to change homes...how the hell do I know?

do you honestly think I'm just going to pack my daughter off to her with no plan in place? I may have made my mistakes, but although she is a good mom, she has made her share too...I have a right to protect myself as well as my daughter.

I want assurances that she isn't going to take out her anger on our daughter, I agree with many of the posters here that we should get into counseling...the three of us, my ex me and my daughter...

so it is, to a point "rocket science".

Would you, raisin, hand your child over to your ex without something signed & sealed assuring you of your rights?

she sortof kindof has to give me the time of day first =)

as a form of revenge?

If your fear is if you give back custody she will  hinder your relationship with your daughter then it might be a good idea to work out a parenting plan that  gives you  the time you want plus unlimited ad hoc visitation.

I am a noncustodial mom and a stepmom, and I admire your ability to analyze yourself and face decisions that will be uncomfortable for you but best for your child.  I have two somewhat long comments to make:

1) As a noncustodial mom, I had to face my own issues with my son and society's assumptions about me.  He is 16 and has lived with his dad since he was 11 and out of control.  I had to face the fact that I did not know what to do with him.  I was single, working full time, and did not have the skills to deal with an angry, violent boy as big as me.  

Five years later, he is a wonderful young man, but I give a lot of credit to my ex.  We also have a 23 yo son, who lives with me, but it's easy to parent a grown man!  He'll soon be graduated from college and gone (I can hardly wait).    

2) My DH and I do not parent each other's kids.  We always felt criticized by the other if there was any disagreement, and the other bio parents resented any suggestion that parental authority came with a marriage license.  Being a stepparent is an almost impossible relationship.  Your wife was smart enough to recognize this and "detach".

Not everyone is cut out for the demands of parenthood, but that doesn't make you a bad person or even a bad father.  You will provide for your daughter in the best way you know how, and you will develop a thick skin for those who presume to judge you without walking in your shoes.  I suspect that, with your newfound communciation skills, you will find the right way to communciate with your ex and begin a journey of co-parenting that keeps your daughter's best interests in the forefront.

Give each step you take some serious thought - no more acting on impulse!  Then talk it over with a trusted party.  Then make your decision.

And one last thought - you don't need a shrink!  I've been through counseling many times, and unless you live on a deserted island with no friends or family to lean on, it's a waste of money!  The bookstore or library will be just as helpful!

Kitty, thats why I told him to dump the new wife and try being a parent,, its obvious he never has been. He knows what he NEEDS to do, but he wants the easy way out.


Now to you the original poster:


You've "won" the custody fight,, well guess what chump,, be careful what you ask for, cuz you just might get it,,, and you did.

So now, you wanna take the easy way out,, pathetic.  Stand the hell up and be a man.

Cant never could bigsigh. And losers cant.



Angry? yeah at times,, more like disgusted,,, You whine that your job is too exhausting, you cant parent, yadda yadda yadda.

Guess what numbnutz,, parents do it everyday. Some of us work 12 hour nights in busy hospitals and still manage to be single parents.


Not you,, oh lord God forbid you be inconvienced by being a full time parent. You made your case, you won your case,, but now it's entirely too much bother?


Since the only advice you seem to want is how to avoid BEING a parent, it's quite simple,, take her to her mother and hand her over.


I DID do you a favor,, I gave you the best advice you could get, you just dont want advice tho, you want validation.

So young to be shriveled up and bitter...

I happen to agree. I think what your wife did was right on, to many SM's try to take over and mother the child and what you wife did is make you step up to the plate and be a dad.  Well, you can't do that w/out the mom and you managed to shove her our.  I think your wife is right that your dd needs her mom, not someone who isn't her mom.  

So, I think you need to give your dd back to her mom asap.  Get a decent visitation schedule set up for you.  And I hope that your ex will forgive you for what you have done, and I think you should apologize to her.

This is sad, so sad.  I feel for your little girl and hope someday she will forgive you for this!

But that is your choice- not mine.  

I really do wish the best for your little girl.  Hopefully you wont delay much longer and will let her go home.

I have tried to read all the responses to your post but may have gotten lost a few times!

The time for pointing fingers/blaming/anger/and any other emotion that is not productive for your daughter is over.  Enough.  You have admitted to a big error in judgment . . . not an easy thing to do, and you have definitely had your public flogging.  So lets put the whips away and fix the problem.

1.  Please, PLEASE help this little girl who cannot help herself.  That is why YOU are the parent.  Parents are allowed to make mistakes - although we all strive to make as few as possible.  We are human.  I am not excusing what you did, why you did it, or judging you for it.  I am simply asking you to NOW DO WHAT IS RIGHT FOR YOUR DAUGHTER.

I am putting myself in your ex-wifes position and assuming she wants her daughter back - - - and if you and she know this is where your daughter will be happiest then DO IT IMMEDIATELY.  

AND MAKE IT SO THAT SHE CAN FINANCIALLY AFFORD TO RAISE THIS LITTLE GIRL.  You have stated that you have 'the good life', then for no other reason than for your daughter and the mother of your child - do the right thing.  

If necessary, consult a child psychologist or similar individual who can help you ALL through this process.

What happened is over.  Everyone, including you, your ex-wife, current wife, and so on. . . can continue to beat the subject and each other up, but the fact is that it is HISTORY and you cannot change the past, just fix the future.

We all make choices and I doubt that any of us has a 100% track record of winning - I wouldn't be positing on a divorce forum if my record had been perfect.  

I hope this helps.  Take care of that little 4-year old gift you have been given and make her world right.  She will love you for it when she is old enough to understand.

Good luck.
Liza32

It takes a BIGGER man to stand up and admit he can't handle something than sit there and try to muddle through it.

Let me guess, you tend to get hopelessly lost instead of asking for directions - what you think a MAN is...falls hopelessly short in my book.

You best watch who you call a "chump".

At the time I won custody, my wife was in and out of a hospital. She wasn't mentally THERE for my daughter. Guess who the hell advised me to go after custody based on the facts back then? Yeah, THIS place. Guess where I got my lawyer referal from. BINGO.

Why do I get the feeling you may have been one of the BIG pushers in it.

My ex is doing much better now, and with that she is a much more capable parent than I EVER have been. I'm not afraid to admit she is better than me.

Why do I get the feeling you have never, in your life either admitted you were wrong, or ever apologized to someone you have wronged.

Stay off my string.

never much cared for prunes - muchless raisins in the first place.

My daughter won't go near a raisin. She thinks it looks like animal poop.

exactly.

That is why I won't just hand her over, as some of the posters here seem to think I should do.

There were two sides to the divorce and two sides to why it got ugly, she did her fair share, so I know what she is capable of.

All I want, all I have ever wanted, was what was best for my DD.

that identified.

Thanks.

I won't give her back until there is a signed visitation schedule in place, among other provisions.

Think my wife went by the old "this is going to hurt me more than it is going to hurt you" addage when she did what she did. People are treating this like she did it from the get go, which is no where near fact.

I talked to a child psych today, just on the phone but gave a general overview. She seems to think based on a good hour and a half conversation that my daughter isn't going to suffer any emotional harm, it is more like an extended vacation for her than anything, provided my ex doesn't turn around and deny my time with her. As I have never denied her.

So we'll see...

Letter is almost perfected.

Of a few hours to write something up and sign it.  If your ex is not willing to let you see your d when you are willing to hand over custody then your d probably should not go with her to begin with.  Do you realize how happy this would make most NCP?  Most would take it that minute.

*Would you, raisin, hand your child over to your ex without something signed & sealed assuring you of your rights?*

No, but I wouldn't keep delaying it either.  Since you havent even talked to your ex you dont know how she will react and you are expecting the worse from her.  You have admitted she is a good mom so why wouldn't she do right by her d?

Counseling is a good idea.  I think it will really help you.

Little late coming in here but here goes.

You've got yourself in a bit of a mess and, sadly, your little girl is paying the price.  So what's the best way out of the mess?

There are basically 3 routes to choose from:
1.  find a way to make the best situation you can for your daughter with the status quo.
2.  file with the court and abide by the court dictating what will happen to your ex, you, and your daughter.
3.  find the way back to communicating with your ex so that your daughter's 2 parents can discuss freely and come up with the most appropriate solution; a solution that won't come about with either of the other options.

Of course the third option is the best but is it possible?

First, you admit that you treated your ex like cr**.  This will prevent your ex being able to coparent with you successfully and is one of the reasons you worry about revenge etc.  Therefore, an essential is accepting responsibility for the way you treated her and, somehow, making her realize this so that she can start the process of rebuilding trust in you.

Second, you state that your ex treated you like cr**.  This is preventing you from being able to coparent with her just as she's unable to do so with you.  However, the coparenting is now essential and something you need if the needs of your daughter are paramount.  Therefore, somehow you need to get past all the things that she did to you and will most likely continue to do to you while keeping the needs of your daughter in mind.  This one is a major toughie.

Third, and this one is actually the biggest of the lot, you CONTINUE to treat your ex like cr**.  I could quote many, many parts of your posts here that illustrate this very clearly.  If you want to find the best situation for your daughter, this HAS to stop even if your ex continues to treat you badly.  It's your only chance to cooperate with her to find the optimal situation for your daughter.

Now, if those three conditions can't be met, then your only option is one of the other 2; status quo or court.  No matter what you decide it's not going to be easy.  Good luck to you and your little girl.

YES!  Well said!!!!!!

I agree with the last statement that you should get rid of the new wife.  When my father remarried (eons ago), my stepmother came first and made it her job to make me feel like i didn't belong in thier family.  I have forgiven my father for making me feel so unimportant and still sometimes act a little jaded about it.  

bottom line...your child comes first.

I also think it might be a good idea to give her some more time with her bio mother if the bio mother is interested.  If that's not an option...set aside the time when you come home from work to spend just with your daughter.  don't try to accomplish anything else.  there is nothing that can't be put on hold in life except showing the one's you care for all the love you have.  your daughter will remember and cherish those Daddy/daughter times.

I will say that i think it's great that you recognize and admit to your past indiscretions.  it shows a lot about your character that you changed and are continuing to.

I wouldn't think that you'd want to do this pro se.  Another attorney could be your best bet.  I don't care what area a lawyer specializes in, they're all hyenas to some degree.  Do what you can to find one that will do what you are intending to do.

You're doing the right thing for your situation, and someday your daughter will thank you.  Today she is four years old.  Blink your eyes and she'll be getting married.  You want to be able to share in that moment, and walk her down the aisle.  

I wasn't talking so much about your daughter's personality, but more about upheaval in her schedule.  I'm sure she would get along well with other children.  She, in my opinion, needs a little down time to get acustomed to her new enviroment before daycare, etc.  

Most of us here are pretty frustrated, however you seem to be handling this situation pretty well.

I'm sorry, but I couldn't have said it better Pnut.

You're a father Bigsigh....you have a precious little girl that you were FORTUNATE enough to get custody off.....do you have any idea how many men, here and everywhere, would love to be in your shoes right now??  And you are looking for ways to "give it up"????  

Forgive me if there aren't too many here that are going to support your whim.  It sounds outright selfish to me.

Exactly when did I say I was walking away from my daughter completely? What exactly am I "giving up"?

When I got custody, my ex was in a severe state of depression, she was in and out of the hospital, she was abusing her medications-I was advised to get custody of my daughter as she was being neglected and that is what I did. At that time I had weekends, and a mid week visit-pretty much standard.

Prior to my ex's depression, she was an excellent mother. My daughter thrived well in her care.

Depression, if treated correctly, is cureable. My ex is cured. She is stable, and she loves her child. My daughter is thrilled every time mom comes to get her and sad to see her have to go.

I find, trying to hold everything together myself is overwhelming. Not everyone on the god damned planet can be a full time parent. I happen to be one of them. Why the hell should I not send my daughter back to a situation she thrives in, that I KNOW she does well in, instead of trying to struggle to make this work?

Exactly WHAT is so horrible about what I'm trying to accomplish, which is make EVERYONE happy, especially my child? Why the hell should I subject my daughter to the possibility of food not being able to be in her mouth, clothes on her back and a phenominal education - basically give up what I have worked so hard for that will only provide the best for her, and her mother, in the absolute long run? Just so I can claim king of the mountain -  I have custody?? My daugher isn't a posession. She is a person who's feelings I have to care about.

You people treat me like I'm deamon spawn. Like I'm going to walk away from my responsibility to my daughter completley. Where the "F" you got that idea I'll never know because I sure as hell didn't say it.

Whooopdedooo that the men on this board are fighting for what I got...good luck to them if they get it, but I'll tell you something, a good percentage of them are going to find themselves just as overwhelmed as I am, and a good percentage of them are going to shirk back and hand the responsibility back over to the mom, but at least *I* have the guts to say I'm not cut out for this & am looking out for my daughter to fidn the best way to go about going back to how things were.

Or the other percentage, like peanutsdad here, is going to bullsh*t everyone into thinking he's some phenominal single parent, when really he knocked up some chick then went crawling back to his ex-wife for help. Suuuuure, he parents all by himself...that's a joke. I'm sure his partner in life would have a few things to say about that. But then again he does a damn good job of keeping her in line from what I've heard.

that is why I find his "comments" so hypocritical.

Now if you want to treat me like I'm some sort of affront to father's rights, that's your problem. I'm doing what is best for my daughter, be it a popular decision or not. I'm not asking for your approval, what I'm looking for is if you were in my shoes, and made the choice I have, how you would go about it. If you can't offer up that type of advice, don't bother posting. Although I already have the groundwork in place thanks to those who chose to care more about my child than to judge so I really am not in need of the advice anymore.

Wow....you've got some chip on your shoulder.  

Bigsigh2004 is/was probably a number of people posting as 1.



Of course I maybe wrong.  My marriage partner is a perfect example of an error.

Not hardly, Bo.  Many of the responders are regulars here, who have been here for a LONG time, including me.

All I ask is that we don't let happen here what has been going on at Dad's Divorce..........and of course, the powers that be here won't let it anyway...........

By fake,, I mean a women posing as a man to try to say that men only think about themselves (job, etc) and are all thumbs raising a child.

I just checked his/her profile and it said "ERROR: No such user profile.  The user has disabled his/her user profile."



P.S. you're cross the line!!!!  Slug butt :-)  lol

P.S.S. when I was at my sons 4yr daycare I heard one kid say "slug butt" and the whole table laughed!!!  I did my best not to crack a smile.  It was hard.

Check out FleetingMoment posting style and bigsigh2004.  Look familiar?

I agree with you...the father got what he wanted, bit off more than he could chew, is a total clueless, blubbering idiot about raising his own kid.

I was especially suspicious of the way they painted the picture of the 2nd wife too....not caring about her stepchild....purposely leaving out the stepchild to make her cry and feel bad....choosing her daugher over her husband and his family.

I think, once again, we've all been bitten by that nasty troll.....:(

Boivar, do me a huge favor, go to Waylon or Brent and ask them to compare IP addresses of fleetingmoment and myself. Tell him I gave you full right and permission. NOT only am I NOT that poster, but I have a feeling I'm not even in the same geographical REGION.

As far as a profile is concerned, pardon the ever loving crap out of me for not putting one up. I wasn't planning on turning my time here into a lifelong event. Just as I had been here before to get advice on what to do when my ex was in dire straights and my daughter was suffering, I came I asked I left. Just as I plan on doing shortly from here. I also didin't see anywhere saying a profile was mandatory. My e-mail is available, I've gotten several from HELPFUL people.

For the love of christmas, you people rally around the dad's who want custody and fight tooth and nail, but what about the ones who find parenting a struggle? Exactly how does it make sense to put me down when all I'm doing is caring about what is best for my daughter, regardless of how it makes ME look. Although I will defend rediculous accusations made by some here.

Just because I'm going against the grain and wanting to place my child back with mom I'm some sort of fraud? I'm not looking to walk away from my kid for god's sake. When I took custody, it was in her best interest, now, it is in her best interest to change things. Sometimes, life hands you curveballs. I'm busier than I have ever been, my daughter doesn't get the time from me she would like to have or I'd like to give and there really isn't a way around that considering I support three households, mine, I help my ex and I also have my in-laws who are not healthy living close by who need help and care. Not that has any real relevance.

Bolivar, ever hear of first right of refusal? Quite frankly, most parents feel that if the child can't be with one parent, they should be with the other. By what I'm doing, THAT is what happens in this situation. My wife, becomes backup, not a full time parent to my daughter. The way it should be. The way the people who actually take the time to be realistic about my situation, and talk to me, instead of this bullsh*t come to find. In fact, it was someone who e-mailed me who compared it to FROR.

I agree with the lot of you that fleetingmoment is a bit of an irritant to the site. But my situation, is a real thing. I came here looking for advice. I asked a legitimate question. It deserves the same respect as any other question asked here. I didn't ask IF I should place her back with mom. That decision has already been made. I asked how it would be best. How you can't give me advice based on what would happen if say, you, won custody of your child and there was to be a transition, how you would go about it is something I don't quite get.

I got my daughter in an emergency motion, she was plopped on me and she didn't take it well. I'm NOT going to do the same thing to her this time. How that is so wrong I don't understand.

I corrected myself.

In my haste to get the post up, I was trying to put into words what my daughter was doing (the crying) and used a very bad example by stating about my wife. But it was something that had just happened recently and was the forefront example in my mind.

For three months after I got custody, my wife ended up doing more and more, and me doing less and less when it came to my daughter. My ex was fine with me not being around much, my new wife, expected more of me as a parent if I was to be one full time.

As I stated somewhere in here, my wife chose to give me a well deserved "wake up call" and forced me to see what being a parent really entails. Forced me to see it was not right of me to just expect her to do everything without consultation.  I never once said she didn't care about my daughter. There is a difference between refusing to take on the responsibilities I should be, and not caring. Her not taking my daughter out with her while I was home was not a life threatening or forever scarring thing for my daughter, but it did help me come to understand that I don't understand the needs my daughter has, or do I have the skill to figure it out. In the three months my wife has been pretty much hands off, my daughter has been worse, not better. That doesn't exactly say a whole hell of a lot of good about my parenting style.

Do I like admitting that? no. But isn't it best for my daughter that I do?
Wouldn't some of the father's on here love for their ex's to have a light bulb turn on and say hey, I'm doing very well at this, here you be the full time parent?

I'm doing with my new wife the things I never did in my first marriage. communicating, counseling, trying to be understanding of everyone's needs. With this comes a better understanding of myself, and what I'm capable of. It also takes that male chip off my shoulder for a while and helps me to admit when there are things I CAN'T do. I'm not going to "Tim 'the toolman' Taylor" my way through being a parent.

Do you have any idea how frustrating it is that I can design some of the most complex office structures, but can't comprehend why a 6 year old wants to color a pig purple and not stay in the lines? Now who do you think that frustration ends up landing on? My daughter, that's who. Should she see me get mad at the footie pajamas with the snaps at the stomach that I never get right the first time? Or when she blobs a bunch of toothpaste on the floor? And what, tell me what, posseses a child to NEED 9 million stuffed animals on her bed just to sleep? I've put that kid to tears at bed time more times than I want to count.

I want to go back to being the parent she ran smiling to at the door when I walked in. I want her to associate with me authority, but also in a good way. How it used to be. I was a better dad to her that way. Why is that so wrong to admit to? Why am I a fake just because of what I'm looking to do?

Should I have mde my post gender neutral? I am the CP and I want to give the child back to the NCP. Would that have helped?

All I want, is to go about what is best for my daughter, in the best way possible. I did what was best for her at the time I got her, and now I want to do the best I can for her now that her mother is back on her two feet. It's called best interest of the child.

There is no need to try to turn me into the patron saint of anti-father's rights. I'm not giving up my parental rights, by any means, just shifting the weight of parenting to a level I and my daughter are the most comfortable with. I'm pretty convinced after 7 months, and her only getting worse - at this point it isn't going to get better. It should have by now. Time to try something else.

 1. It's easy to have multiple IP addresses.  Its done all the time.
 2. You are new, but claim to be old.  Tell me what was your old alias?
 3. Your posts are a mile long, like FleetingMoment
 4. If you do have money, why not hire a professional to help you with this decision.  Why ask a bunch of strangers you do NOT know, and then criticize those who disagree with you.  We are a bunch of KOOKS ya know!!:-)

Thinking about my last statement maybe you're the KOOK.  You are getting advice for the most important area of you life from a bunch of posters, acting like we are some kind of qualified expert.

I did not read through the whole string, but I think I remember you mentioned you are a business owner.  I to am a business owner.  As a business owner you would naturally know that when making a big decision to gather info BUT seek counsel from a specialist.

After this board did you go to your local bar and gather info on how to handle your situation?  Believing there advice was that of an authority.

I too ask questions to get different ideas.  BUT, I would never act on a critical part of my life such as my child, solely based on the answers at a board (or bar).  

Take a parenting class.  I think the question you should ask is – "why am I so emotionally week that I can't raise my child?"  God forbid the mother dies.  

Good Luck and God Bless!!!

Parenting is not easy whether you're a man or a woman.  Wait until she starts school.  It gets worse.  May I suggest that you and your child's mother start looking for a good private school?

The way I see it is that the child's mother holds the key to this situation.  I mentioned getting another attorney in an earlier reply, and you might want to start looking.  Your ex wife needs to be approached in a way that will not make her feel threatened.  I'm sure there is still a high level of animosity, and that needs to be defused before any kind of coparenting can occur.

Yeah, you've gotten some hostile replies, but don't let it bother you.  I've gotten my fair share of hostility over the years(some of which I deserved), but I'd rather be here getting straight advice, than on message boards full of nasty, bitter women.  

I don't know if you go to church or anything, but prayer works.  This problem cannot be solved overnight, so definitely pray for patience ;-)

what I find offensive is when people assume and don't ask questions.

With that, I'd like to point out an assumption on your part. Where do you get the idea that I'm basing what I do SOLELY on what I hear here? When did I ever indicate that? Or did I ever call this place an "authority"? It's just a source/resource.

There are people I'm not paying behind the screen names on this board, am I going to defend myself and get pissed off when they would rather waste my time hurling insults and not giving input based on questions?  (much like now, where I have to defend the integrity of my post just because you want to turn me into someone else)

People here have switched custody, people here have written up agreements, people here have had kids who were unhappy. I was hoping to come here to find people that would give input based on just the NEED I was requesting, and not get into a moral debate as to if it is right or not. That isn't for anyone else to decide. None of you are in the situation I'm in. None of you are around MY child, or live MY life. To presume that I'd be abandoning her or otherwise, is entirely wrong to assume.

I'm not a bad father or "emotionally weak" just because I find myself more comfortable with the weekend/once during the week scenario. My time with my child was of better quality then. Is that NOT what is important? I'd still be "raising" my child. I'll still be a very large influence in her life. I always have been. By what you are saying, any father that does not have custody of their child, isn't "raising" or influencing their child's development then?

Bolivar, have you ever taken a parenting class yourself? Do you have any idea what a bunch of hogwash they are except for the ones about newborns? There isn't a generic class anywhere that can fully help you deal with an unhappy toddler. A child psychologist MAYBE can help, but you know what, so can her mom.

I don't think in terms that irrational. "what if the mother dies". If something like that happens, it will be dealt with accordingly. But as long as mom is on the planet, and doing just fine, there is no reason she shouldn't be the CP if I'm not doing that well at it.

ok to answer your questions:

1) well, it wasn't a question, but I really don't have the time to be that devious, I own two computers, one here at my office and one at home that my SD is glued to. So I have two IP addresses. I'm not a computer geek. I build buildings.

2) If I remembered it, don't you think I would have used it? It had my initials and some numbers that were on the bottom of a desk calendar from that year. I was posting here maybe a week, week and a half. I have more important things to remember.

3) So that is all you are going on? The fact I'm long winded? Tell me you are kidding. If it weren't for the rediculous accusations, if people just got down to the nitty gritty of advice based on the questions only, I wouldn't have had to have gotten long winded. I sure as hell didn't start out that way. I now come to realize my first post probably should have been two miles long.

Sidenote - you know the first time I came here, my post was very short. Something along the lines of "my ex is in the hospital for her depression. My daughter is is the care of her neighbor. What the heck is an emergency order of custody" I didn't get accused of anything, I didn't get railroaded, I didn't get questioned as to if I was serious or not, I was just given out and out advice and helpful information that coincided with what my lawyer said. I was also directed to ask questions to socrateaser. I pretty much expected to get the same thing this time. Wrong expectation I now see.

Apparently since I was taking the child from mom, I was worth helping, the fact I feel mom is back on her feet and deserves to play full time role now once again, I'm sh*t on toast.

4) I have answered this already sortof. A) I got good advice last time that coincided with the people I was paying. b) I'm not criticizing the advice I've been given here. I've appreciated every bit of it. No one here has the right to disagree with my choice of placing my daughter back with her mother since they don't know the situation. No one has the right to call me names based on my choice, or treat me like I'm a bad father or abandoning my child. It isn't like anyone went into great detail on how to write something up and I called them a moron.

Bolivar, since you also are a business man, maybe looking at my situation from that perspective would help.

Say you had an excellent employee who started abusing alcohol due to stresses in his/her life, and with that the person's job performance declined.  Let's say your company is large enough to fall under the category where you MUST send your employee for help prior to being able to fire them for poor performance. Say the treatment center they went to worked wonders and they were back to being the excellent employee again. While that employee was away, you did your best to cover both jobs, but both jobs suffered as a result and the product you were manufacturing had noticable flaws due to lack of attention to detail.

Now, upon the return of this employee, even after proving they were back to being the start employee you had orginally hired, would you still fire them anyway? Or would you draw up some sort of agreement allowing them to continue their job in the same capacity as before, provided that from now on, certain requirements were met? With the undestading if they aren't met, it means certain termination?

Putting it that way, and then looking at the advice I was originally asking for, does my thought process make any better sense to you?

I have read your post and through most of the replies. I noticed the pattern in which you defend your wife's actions and make excuses for you and your daughter.

Did it EVER occur to you that the reason your daughter is "crying" and looking for the attention is because; She once had it from your wife and now it's gone? That little girl is probably feeling hated by your wife, excluded now from activities, that once was there. Regardless of the "reality" check your wife has given you now, it HAS affected your daughter. I believe your wife is using as many excuses as she can muster to YOU so you get that CHILD out of HER life and yours, out of that HOUSE for the sake of her own selfishness. Based on what you've said, I feel you have fallen right into your wife's trap.

It's between the lines; You love your wife more than your own child. You will not do 50-50 placement because you say your daughter is not a tennis ball. Yet, you're willing to do every other weekend. This only proves to me that you DON'T want the responsibility. Whether your ex is alive or not, you're obligation is to take the responsibility for your child regardless. Hey, I'm alive! Give her to me! I'll be more than open hearted to giving your daughter what you WON'T. To bad your so-called wife won't either, not even out of the respect and love she claims she has for you.

You wanted some ideas and suggestions;

1. Get rid of the wife. (You must be tired of taking on the responsibilities of supporting HER child through housing, food, phone, etc...)

2. Hire a nanny. (A good loving woman who will give your daughter what she is not getting from you or your wife. Then when YOU think you have the time to spend with your daughter, give the Nanny the day off)

3. Hire one or two extra workers to relieve some of your work load so you can spend time with your daughter. (You must be able to afford that seeing as you DON'T pay child support, you can afford a home with all the luxuries. Maybe YOU need to down size in that area for the sake of your child)  

Do you not understand? We are all here fighting, crying, spending money, losing sleep and heartbroken to have the very opportunity YOU want to get rid of. You are a disgrace to my gender, not to mention the oxymoron statements that pour out of your mouth.  

You need a reality check! Your attorney DID NOT do anything YOU didn't want HIM to do, so stop playing the victim. This is what you wanted, what you paid for and what you have. If your wife refuses to stand by your side in the raising of your child, I can tell you there are a lot of women out there that would love you and your daughter enough to step up to the plate - without conditions!  

"Children learn what they live"

First off...
Hi :)
Many here have seen your second wife as harsh and controling ect. I frankly see her as any other SM. It is your child, she can support you in it, but it is your responcibility not hers. If she chooses to be more involved then good for her, but it is and should be HER choice.
Second....
Your daughter is not happy,  she wants to be with her mother. That is something easily changed. Talk to your ex, write and noterize a new parenting plan with her, and have it filed with the courts.
Third....
You do not feel you can handle being a full time father. At least you say it.  Now it is time to set things right with your child and the ex. Make sure you let your child KNOW that you love her and always will.

You and yours WILL be fine.


P.S.... This is PD's ex-wife and current SO and going to remarry eventually. When we divorced I gave him custody of our children because I knew they would be fine with him, and were for 1 1/2 years before he met and produced a child with his ex gf.  I happen to be with him because I choose to be :)

Good Luck in finding your path!

I believe that was great advice!

Some people are simply not cut out to be parents.  That's just the way things go.  Just because you are capable of producing viable eggs or sperm, doesn't make you a mommy or a daddy.  

You made an excellent suggestion about hiring a nanny. Just because you are capable of producing a human being, doesn't mean that you can jump in and be a mommy or a daddy.  At least this guy has a conscience, and enough love for his little girl to do the right thing.  In my mind, he has the makings of being an excellent father.  I hope things work out for both him and his daughter.   I don't think his new wife deserves to be trashed, either.  I am contradicting my earlier views, but she has a good point.  You trash your child's mother so you can take the child away from her, and you now expect me to raise this child.  BS!  I agree.

Yeah, I'm sure he could find plenty of bottom feeding women to take his wife's place.  Most of us women here would be very wary of a man who did what he did to his child's mother.  

HOW we handled the transition of my wife caring for my daughter the majority of the time to me? Or are you happy in your little world of assumptions like some of the others? you aren't reading between the lines, you are creating new ones.

My wife, is extremely sensative to the needs of kids. She has raised a fine child, honor student, active in the community etc. goes to her mom for everything, all by her little self there is no father really in that scenario. She is also sensative to the needs of my EX (hell of a lot more than I am or ever will be) in how my EX would feel about how much she parents our child.

We sat down and talked about what she planned to do. We both sat down with my daughter and explained to her that daddy was going to try to be around more, etc. We continued to reinforce that fact with her.

If my daughter goes to my wife for affection, she is right there doling out the hugs and kisses anytime. I love how you automatically assume my wife compeltely ignores my daughter as if she doesn't exist. If her shoes need to be tied or otherwise and I'm in the house, she directs my daughter to me. What you think if i'm not there she forces my child to fend for herself? Never once did I say that.

The blame, for how my daughter is acting is soely on my shoulders, as everytime she does act out, it's directly due to something I'VE DONE/SAID or otherwise. Who do you think told her she couldn't go to the store with SM?

My wife, made me go to counseling with my ex to better help our relationship for my daughter. She doesn't want my daughter out of our lives, what she wants is my daughter equal in both her biological parent's lives, now that the other half has attended to the treatment she needed. She "stepped up to the plate" when it was necessary to do so, now that my daughter has to able bodied and minded biological parents, she's stepping back.

There is no way in hell I'm dumping my wife, she has been the best educator, role model and support for what a family SHOULD be that I have ever come across. She wants for my daughter what her daughter didn't get BOTH parents actively involved in the upbringing and support of our child.

This isn't just about my daughter suffering. Now that my ex is back to herself, she is suffering too. which in turn, affects my daughter.

HIRE A NANNY?!?!? what the hell good would that do? This is NOT about my wife refusing to step up to parent my child it is about the fact that there is another biological parent out there who comes next in line to me in caring for my daughter. For god's sake a nanny would be something to consider only if my ex was totally insane and unfit and both my wife and I held full time plus jobs. The point here is to get my ex more time with my daughter because she is a good parent.

You can't tell me to "hire more workers" at my company when you don't understand the complexity of what I do. And who says I don't pay support? Yeah my CS was suspended after I took custody, but I pay my ex alimony. Not that it matters.

No, my attorney didn't do what I wanted him to do. That is because I wasn't educated enough in the area I had to quickly dive into. What SHOULD have happened was a temporary custody situation, to be reviewed in six months to see if my ex got better before it was determined to be permanent. Had I known, or had my lawyer informed me that that was an option, it is what I should have done. We wouldn't be where we are now if that were the case. I'm not calling myself a "victim" that word never came out of my mouth. Underinformed is not a victim. My ex, as far as I'm concerned is the "vicitim" in all of this. next comes my child.

Did anyone ever bother to ask what the custody/visitation set up was now? No. Right now, my ex has every other weekend and wednesday from 6 to 8. That's it. Is that fair for a parent who is fit to parent? Hell, when I was the NCP *I* even had more time than that. For a child who was raised primarily by her mom, then all of a sudden didn't see mom for weeks (or get to talk to her since she was hospitalized) then going to that little of time. Both my ex and kid are reeling and not recovering from it.

My daughter was better adjusted when she hung out with mom Mon-Fri, I came either on a wed or thurs night to go have pizza or something then got her all weekend. It worked. My child was happy. Why you want to chastize me for wanting to go back to what makes my child happy is beyond my comprehension. Getting all hung up on the fact that I want to give primary custody back to her. oooo bad me. Give me a break. Through the help of people from here and other places, I think I've got a pretty damn good plan in mind that will work for everyone.

I could choose to be the vindictive bastard and tell my ex you made your bed, lie in it. Not care that her downfall was not a permanent or recurring problem. She was diagnosed and treated for severe depression. All the evals that were done didn't come out with any "disorder' attached to her. I could be selfish and keep my daughter with me more just because it's in the court order now. I could try to take all the time in the world for my kid to "adjust". But that isn't fair to everyone.

I'm quite aware that there are people on this board fighting tooth and nail for more time or custody of their child. However, I would hope, that if they were going for custody it is because there is something seriously wrong with the other parent, or that they had a very limited visitation schedule (not unlike what my ex has right now) My wife and I both agreed that now that my ex is better, that she would more than likely at the very least go to court for more time, why make her pay for it? It's best anyway.

I have a new lawyer now. He's a pretty great guy from what I can tell and fully supports my choice and will be helping me attain it. His comment about "wording" of a court order is that they are "just words".  legal custody, physical custody, all of that, means nothing if either parents chooses to ignore it. Who has physical custody when both parents are fit is less important to me than the "legal" aspect. Say in things. As long as I can maintian that, and get to see my daughter as regularly as before - I'm a happy camper.

The advice that astounds me most of all that I've heard several times on here, is the one about how I should dump my wife. The one person in all of this who has been the advocate of equal time for both biological parents. How is that in the best interest of a child who is already reeling? Watching yet another fight and split of people she loves when all it takes is some strategic planning and reorganization to make everyone happy. I came here for advice on how to keep the chaos down to a minimum and I'm getting advice that would just make more. Boggles the mind.

Not that easy since my ex at the moment is so pissed off at me she won't talk to me - at all. Part of why I posted to begin with, to get other ideas on how to go about it since going direct ain't gonna happen. I've chosen to retain a new attorney and he is going to draft up an agreement and send it to her with a letter stating my intentions. Including a clause stating that if she ever goes downhill again, custody will revert back to me and there will be no changing it in the future among other things.

Oh my daughter knows full well I love her, NO doubt in my mind about that, and she will continue to. What this really ends up boiling down to is more of a change on paper than anything else (other than more time for mom)

Hey kiddo, tell peanut I said I think you should dump him & take the kids. =) You obviously have the common sense and brains in the family. I hope you are teaching your children compassion because he certainly doesn't have any.

Eventually remarry? What's the holdup? Don't tell me you want to save up for a huge affair and a white dress.

 "If her shoes need to be tied or
otherwise and I'm in the house, she directs my daughter to me".
    -My point exactly! So what you're saying is she won't tie a simple shoe lace because you're home? Instead of; out of love and respect.

"What you think if i'm not there she forces my child to fend for herself? Never once did I say that".
   -Did I ever say you did say that? NO.

"Who do you think told
her she couldn't go to the store with SM?"
    -Why would you want to hold her back from that? Do you feel guilty about something?

"My wife, made me go to counseling with my ex to better help
our relationship for my daughter."
    -Wow! She has a lot of control! To bad YOU couldn't have thought of that.
 
"She doesn't want my daughter out of our lives, what she wants is my daughter equal in both her biological parent's lives"
    -Then why go back to your old visits of weekends? Shouldn't SHE be telling you that's not equal?

"She "stepped up to the plate" when it was necessary to do so, now that my daughter has to able bodied and minded biological parents, she's
stepping back."
    - That is the worst form of stepparenting I have ever heard of. If I was a child I would be crying too...because of confusion.

"There is no way in hell I'm dumping my wife, she has been the
best educator, role model and support for what a family SHOULD
be that I have ever come across. She wants for my daughter
what her daughter didn't get BOTH parents actively involved in
the upbringing and support of our child."
    -Then with that statement, SHE of all people should be there for HER stepchild...REGARDLESS! So when the day comes that SHE is classified as the "wicked stepmother" you'll then know why.

"This isn't just about my daughter suffering. Now that my ex is
back to herself, she is suffering too. which in turn, affectsmy daughter."
    -Your ex has been suffering a long time, remember what you did to her. Now you know why your ex doesn't want to talk to you.

"HIRE A NANNY?!?!? what the hell good would that do? This is
NOT about my wife refusing to step up to parent my child"
    -Go back and read the first line to this post.

"You can't tell me to "hire more workers" at my company when
you don't understand the complexity of what I do. And who says
I don't pay support? Yeah my CS was suspended after I took
custody, but I pay my ex alimony. Not that it matters."
    -It doesn't matter, you wanted suggestions...this was one of them.

"No, my attorney didn't do what I wanted him to do. That is
because I wasn't educated enough in the area I had to quickly
dive into."
    -You knew well enough to strip your soon to be exwife of all resources available for her and your child as well.    

"What SHOULD have happened was a temporary custody
situation, to be reviewed in six months to see if my ex got
better before it was determined to be permanent."
    - You're right but your actions of screwing the ex over in the beginning was more important. You should have had your "now wife" with you then.

"My ex, as far as I'm concerned is the "vicitim" in all
of this. next comes my child."
    -Yes! Just the way you had planned it from the start, until you SEEN the reality of it. Now you don't want it.

"Did anyone ever bother to ask what the custody/visitation set
up was now?"
    -Why should we have, when we were led to believe there wasn't one. Look at your first post, can you point it out to me? Maybe I missed it.

"Right now, my ex has every other weekend and
wednesday from 6 to 8. That's it. Is that fair for a parent
who is fit to parent? Hell, when I was the NCP *I* even had
more time than that."
     -So still, where is it fair for both parents? As your WIFE WANTS it to be.

AND;

"My daughter was better adjusted when she hung out with mom
Mon-Fri, I came either on a wed or thurs night to go have
pizza or something then got her all weekend"
      -I also think YOU were better adjusted.
 
"Why you want to chastize me for wanting to go
back to what makes my child happy is beyond my comprehension."
    -If you feel chastized I have no control over your feelings. However, it may make your child happy but not as FREE and HAPPY as you. Why? You ask...because you still won't go for 50-50% and you even stated you would be a happy camper.

"I could choose to be the vindictive bastard and tell my ex you
made your bed, lie in it."
    -You did that one already during the divorce when that's exactly what you wanted to be. Again read your first post. Now you want to go back to less time and being happy, and you can"t now be vindictive, now you have to be humble to get what YOU and your WIFE want.

"She was diagnosed and treated for severe depression."
    -I know I would have gone in a severe depression had my soon to be ex done to me what you did to her.

"I could be selfish and keep my daughter with me more just because it's in the court order now. I could try to take all the time in the
world for my kid to "adjust". But that isn't fair to everyone."
    -You could, but fair is not what you or your wife want, you don't want to parent half the time and your wife doesn't either.
   
"I'm quite aware that there are people on this board fighting
tooth and nail for more time or custody of their child.
However, I would hope, that if they were going for custody it
is because there is something seriously wrong with the other
parent, or that they had a very limited visitation schedule
(not unlike what my ex has right now)"
    -Your ex has been limited until YOU and your WIFE decided you didn't want that, because after all you wife raised her child, SHE has her tubes tied, SHE wants to travel. SELFISH!
 
"My wife and I both
agreed that now that my ex is better, that she would more than
likely at the very least go to court for more time, why make
her pay for it? It's best anyway."
    -Yes! Why put the poor woman through he** again while you get what YOU want, AGAIN.

"As long as I can maintian that, and get to see my daughter as
regularly as before - I'm a happy camper."
    -Selfish! There was no equal time then. That's all I have to say about that one.
   
"The advice that astounds me most of all that I've heard
several times on here, is the one about how I should dump my
wife. The one person in all of this who has been the advocate
of equal time for both biological parents."
   -I still don't see where the "equal" time comes in. Equality wasn't there in what you had before and that's what you want again.
 
"Boggles the mind."
    Mine too!

Took me a long time last night to read through all the replies and responses - I really didn't think I had much to offer, but I just had to get my two cents in.  
Yes, you made a mistake - no shame in admitting that.  You were cruel to your ex for your own gain.  When we are going through divorce we go through the whole range of emotions, and the worst in all of us comes out.  And yes, it's usually the kids who suffer the most.  But it's not too late to fix things.  You may not like this piece of advice, but being on the other side of things, I think it's very important to say you're sorry to your ex.  Once she gets the letter from your attorney please make the effort to sit down with her.  You don't have to admit the wrong things you did, she already knows what they were and so do you.  Just say you're sorry.  It will take a lot for her to trust you, so having it all down on paper will make it easier for her, too.  She will never take you for "your word" again, and I don't think even you can blame her for that.

That said, on to your relationship with your daughter.  I am raising an eight year old boy basically on my own.  His Dad decided when our son was 4 that he wanted to return to our home town (6 hours away).  I was the only person who worked for the last 12 years of our marriage.  I have a good job where we are now, and there were many reasons we BOTH decided to make the move to where my son and I live now.  I was not willing to pack it up and move again just for his whim.  He left, son and I stayed.  I am a "real" single parent.  Work full time, have arranged my work hours around sons schedule.  I get no child support, no help of any kind from Dad.  He comes around a few times a year for fun weekends - that's it.  Yes, it's hard raising a child of the opposite gender.  It's hard raising any child.  I have played more games of Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh than I will ever care to count.  But that's what my son likes to do.  I'm the one playing football and basketball with him.  I have sat for HOURS coloring and drawing with him.  Yes, your daughter is different than any relationship you will ever have - but it will be the most rewarding relationship also.  Of course she is thrilled to go to her Mom's - she feels loved and WANTED there.  I'm not saying that you don't want her, just that she doesn't feel it.  I think you're right - she's better off with her Mom as custodial parent - and I don't think 50/50 living arrangements are good for kids.  But, just because it may not be "your day", doesn't mean you can't be in her life.  I would love for my ex to be at all of our sons activities, whether it was his day or mine, but it has always been just me there.  
I think you do need to make the change ASAP, before your daughter gets old enough to realize she doesn't want to live with you anymore.  You have so many wonderful years ahead of you.  My Dad passed away 7 years ago - you know what most of my memories of him are?  Him taking me fishing, him reading to me, him teaching me how to ride a bike, etc, etc.  He never had the money to send me to college or give me the things he probably wished he could - but those would not have been the things I remember now.  Your little girl will cherish the time you just sit with her.  Kids love to hear stories about when you were little, they love to just listen to you talk about them.  I have shelves full of books about "relating to boys", because boys are soooo different than girls.  I'm sure your ex and current wives will eventually love to help you.  Your wife has already raised one daughter - she can be a wealth of information to you - but she's right - you are her father, you need to find a relationship with her.  Your limits will be stretched, but your daughter will open your eyes to things you never knew existed.  Your life will be so much better for having a daughter.  
Okay, I have rambled on long enough - but I hope my point has been made.  Make the change, but also change yourself.  Stop thinking of what you can't do for your daughter and start doing the things you can (even when they are not the things you want to do).  Your daughter will only have one Dad, let her have the memories of him that will carry her through even after you're gone.  

Will you all cut it out now? This is FleetingMoment. For some reason, my auto signon stopped working. I did not save the numerical password given to me when signing up so, "Login Failed."

I owe it to Bigsigh2004 and the rest of the posters to come forward and let YOU know that HE is not ME. Long posts, posting styles are very far apart. Reanalyze if you must.  

Bolivar, you and a couple of others appear hellbent on trying to figure out who I am, compare me to other posters, and unfortunately create rumors in the minds of other posters regarding new ones such as Bigsigh2004. The man's story, whoever he may be, sounds truthful and you singlehandly managed to create chaos for him. His story may not be something you are accustomed to reading on this board, but every day comes along a new situation. You are not the ONLY person on this board that is very real.  

That is sooooo WRONG, and destructive of the integrity of new posters. Definitely something moderator should take note of.

PS.... Boll Weevil instead of Bolivar, the name's more fitting.  

 

One thing that seems to be overlooked in this is that my ex was in the hospital for her depression when I took custody. HOW it got taken was wrong, it shouldhave been handled differently, but the reasons it happened were still very valid and very fitting for the situation then.

You hear so much about "routine" and how kids, especially my daughter's age, are pretty rigid about it and my daughter's routine DID go ass over apple cart. What I am trying to accomplish is get my daughter back to the routine I know she was comfortable with.

It isn't about what my ex wants, it isn't about what my current wife wants, it isn't about what I want, it is about what my daughter NEEDS.

My ex was not perfect. I wasn't going to sit here and bash her for the things she did since this really was supposed to be about what to to for my daughter, but instead it turned into a burn at the stake of my current wife and lynching of me. I'm irritated beyond belief that I had to spend so much time "defending" myself and my wife. My ex tried to hide the fact she was in the hospital, she tried to keep it from me that my child was actually living with the neighbor...that is what drove me, and my attorney to the lengths it went.

Lets go over your questions/responses:

**My point exactly! So what you're saying is she won't tie a simple shoe lace because you're home? Instead of; out of love and respect.**

As I have stated, over and over and over and over and over...my wife, for the first three months my daughter was here did pretty mcuh everything, all the shoelace tying if I was around or not. That, is just plain wrong and I understand that now. It is not her place to take the place of either my ex OR myself. If I'm home I'M the parent. Right down to the little things. Out of "love and respect" my wife insisted I be a parent not a bystander. I was doing less for my daughter now than when the custody situation was reversed. My wife decided to call me on it. She was right to do it.

**Why would you want to hold her back from that? Do you feel guilty about something?**

Guilty for something? where did that come from? My wife chose not to take my daughter with her to the mall so that I'd spend quality time with her myself. Again, due to me doing less than before.

On the counseling...
Are you a step or something? Never been divorced? Sounds as if you are because you seem to have very little understanding of when you are that angry with someone, many times there are things you won't do just because THEY brought it up. Like hell I was going to counseling because my ex wanted it. My wife, helped me realize I was pretty much being a stubborn idiot. It was for my daughter, not a control thing by my ex as I was doing a good job of convincing myself.

You know what, I'm done going through all this point by point. You seem to want to take everything out on my wife and that can only lead me to the conclusion that there must be another woman in the picture with YOUR ex, and that venom is coming out in regard to my situation.

I'm not here to defend myself, and I'm tired of doing it. Not to mention with the advice I've already received from other people here and other sources, I'm well on my way to making what is best for my child a reality. You really don't get it and you never will.

**Of course she is thrilled to go to her Mom's - she feels loved and WANTED there. I'm not saying that you don't want her, just that she doesn't feel it. I think you're right - she's better off with her Mom as custodial parent - and I don't think 50/50 living arrangements are good for kids. But, just because it may not be "your day", doesn't mean you can't be in her life.  **

exactly exactly exactly

I think I'll be a better role model and parent when my daughter is older, When she gets into (I hope) some type of sporting thing, or hell, even if she becomes a cheerleader I'll still go watch. When it is easier to communicate and after I've (with the help of my wife) learned to communicate better. It kills me that I just can't seem to get into doing the things she wants to do, I really have tried, but I just end up frustrating her. My ex is so much more in tune with her right now.

The new attorney I have is an older, more gentle soul. I'm hoping going from a pit bull to a lap dog will help open the door to acutal communication with my ex.

Thanks for your comments linda. You sound like a wonderful person and a great mother. A lot of your wisdom is what my wife is teaching me as well.

.

Have you figured out that your actions are controlling and manipulative?

I don't know how old you are but I am 41 , It's been My experience from being married to a woman that did all the similar crap ,But in a different way , That self centered is self centered , And If She can't respect the most precious thing You have , I will garuntee she doesn't respect You , They are two fold , But I have read your responses and if you are looking for support to do what You want , then You don't really need to ask ,I drew the line with My current wife and had her ass served with divorce papers , She was Mean to My son and She was the one to go , My soon to be ex had the same double standard , and it was all about her and her daughter of similar age to your step daughter,I would NEVER Let this happen , And I stood up to the mouthy brat step Daughter , And My soon to be ex went balistic . All the while she had smacked My son a few times , And was mean too him , But all the while when I was trying to deal with her Brat daughter , She would come unglued on Me ,This un equality even played out at the dinner table over wich child got to blabber mindlessely , Of course My son was told to be quiet and step daughter was alway's preffered , I am not a wimp . And YOU ARE , Stand up to this Woman , And tell her the children get treated equal , If you can't do that then Give the child back , Who cares about what People think . If you can't stand up too your current wife, And the current wife disrespects your child like this , Then It won't work , My wife abused My son and Yours will to , When she does what she does That. is a terrible step mother , I know because I had a similar situation , Get a grip people like your wife [and my soon to be ex ] DON'T CARE about any one but themselves and THERE children , And I won't compromise Good human ethics , I See you as compromiseing what is equal and fair , And My wife is a product of this  , She had a terrible step mother and Her Bio dad never stood up to Her . And  this will Be My wife's third divorce, And I do not wonder why . This is a terrible thing to do to this child . My advice too You <<< Do what Your wife want';s , And I will garuntee You will see that there will be other crap she pulls, this won't end with You appeasing her By giving the child back ,  
     OR ;Think of this angle , It alway's happens in reverse when Couples are married , and mom gets stuck at home , So maybe this isn't so abnormal after all , Or maybe , Just give the real mom a lot more time, Ask If she wants the child more, I bet she does , But here's another reality , Maybe you are just not cut out to be a full time parent, Thats not so terrible of you to admit it. than to carry on like this treating the child unfairly, Only you can answer wich is more important , I love My son , But I'm Not so sure I want to deal with Him full time , And My special time with him is the best , BUT My very similar Soon to be ex , Was even jealous when He was here and I would read him books ,And spend My special time with Him , I think Your wife and My soon to be ex are birds of a feather , And you will continue to have problems , Or maybe  just give bio Mom a bunch more time , And see how it goes ,. But certainly the time Your daughter is spending at home unfairly, could at least be spent with the bio mom , Get over the ego and pride trip and  Let Bio mom And your daughter Benefit While you sort this out :  
       It's a better Man that live's By principle than pride "

my wife is not controlling by any means and I'm not here to defend her, myself or anything else, I came for advice, and the people who recognized that and are willing to not compare their lives with mine,  and just get to the business of answering the questions I have/had offered up some excellent ideas.

My wife does not consider my daughter a brat, loves her tremendously and does anything for her if I'm not around, but expects me to parent when I am there.

I'm sorry your life with your STBX is so bad for your child, but what you are describing is NOTHING like my situation at all.

Hmmmm, now suddenly this handle is working again.  Thanks, moderator :)

Well I'm conflicted here, I see your problem. I can see that your situation could happen to almost anyone.

On one hand, the fact is that if you were a woman asking the same in a group that supports a fatherless society, or were a woman just asking girlfriends about this, you would probably be told, "Go get her a babysitter and go out and have a good time yourself. Or give him some more time on Fridays and Saturdays."


I would advise you before making such a decision, to consider that your new wife may act the very same regardless. I seldom see any woman get in the habit of "going out with her friends" and suddenly cease this no matter what change the husband makes in his life. If you stop going to the bar with the buds or whatever, one day you'll stop by and visit a relative on Friday night and to her you've given her a go out and drink card.

She may say, "Your kid, your problem." now, but when you hand your daughter to your wife you'll still be giving up a couple weekends a month for your daughter and your new wife might be looking at your paycheck and saying "Your kid, your problem."

Again, I can't grasp the entire situation from just one post, but you say you're afraid of being a single dad, have you ever considered that you will still have some of the same problems with your wife after you give up your daughter, and then you'll be in an even lonelier position? Trust me, unless maybe you're Don Juan and have a hot date every weekend, having a kid around the house is better than being lonely.

I've seen plenty of couples that have had previous broken marriages and they think their marriage will work if they just go out together instead of separately, but I almost never see it work over the long haul. Spending time together is great, but if the problem is her going out to clubs with her girlfriends against your wishes while you sit at home alone or with your daughter, I doubt finding a way that you can be free on the weekend will fix the situation. Maybe if you can just look at it that way you may not hold a grudge against your daughter next time you have to stay at home on a Saturday and dry her tears. Trust me, I've seen this stuff a million times, once a wife or girlfriend thinks she's discovered the "ultra life", nothing but a huge paradigm shift (like on the magnitude of suddenly discovering religion) will ever change any of her behavior, and I doubt you being free on some weekends is a big enough paradigm shift.

Damn dude, relax. What he was saying wasn't meant to cast aspersions on you, he was trying to relay his experience to you and the bitterness he felt as a result of such.

Every guy here has probably experienced a similar situation to yours, as far as women feeling different about them because they have kids from a previous marriage or whatever.

If your second wife really is so great you want to spend more time with her and the full time parent gig just isn't working out, it's understandable that you'd consider changing that.

But if you are saying that a lot of the problem is your wife going out with friends when you want her to stay at home, I'm sorry but this almost never changes. If you go out partying with her, she'll want to do the same on weekends you don't want her to, and after a few quiet weekends she'll resent you because she knows she could be out somewhere with guys lined up to ply her with free drinks (a uniquely female experience, they don't have bored househusband porn sites you know.) This attitude invariably leads to emotional infidelity which usually leads to either physical infidelity or marital breakup.

The idea that trust and calm communication and quality time above quality are all paramount in a marriage is largely the suggestion of feminists IMO. Rather, mutual respect and addressing conflicts while maintaining it are more important, and fidelity is most easily maintained by people not placing themselves in situations where they're likely to faulter.

What I can't believe is how this thread went from a man asking for help in transitioning his child back to his mother and ended up being about his second wife's partying ways.  Maybe everyone here who seems to think this is the fault of the second wife should go back and read his first plea for help.

The erroneous assumption that women are better able to handle children than men has led to many stepmothers being forced to parent children they have no real relationship with.  Many men see women as the nurturers and assume that they know how to handle children.  I would resent my DH assuming I could step in as his children's mother, and the children would resent it as well.  

This woman is not out drinking and partying while her poor husband is stuck home with the kid.  She simply stated the obvious - that she is not the child's mother and does not intend to play that role.

Let's get back on track - he was looking for advice about helping his daughter transition to a new living arrangement.  

My husband tried mediation with his ex-wife. If you are both willing to change the custody order, then an unbiased observer might be the best thing. You tell them what you want, your ex-wife tells them what she wants, and you compromise until you reach an agreement.
Personally, I think that it's a refreshing change to see someone who does actually take responsibility for their actions, and realizes that they have made the wrong one for their child.
Maybe if you take the first step and apologize to your ex-wife, without expecting an apology in return, then things could move foward so that you both can parent your little girl to the best of both of your abilities.
It's amazing what can be accomplished when you lower your own walls of defense and humble yourself before someone. They usually have a tendancy to listen a little more closely to what's being said.

Just one more note...
It's pretty interesting to see that most of the people who are lambasting bigsigh for WANTING to give his ex MORE time with their child are the same people who are FIGHTING their ex for more time with their child(ren).
What I wouldn't give to have my ex WANT to give me more time with my child and be WILLING to work out an arrangement where BOTH of us could parent our child more effectively.

,,,,,,,And I sit and dream of the day I come home from work to color books with my daughter. I sit and dream of the day!! :(

I am a step mom and do not in anyway feel like my 2 step kids are a bother.  I can't see how your new wife would feel this way especially being a mother herself.  However if you feel that your sittuation isn't the best for your daughter maybe you should let her BM take her back.  I'm sure she would love that.  And as far as never hearing the end of it.... I'd say to put your feelings the back burner for now and make sure you are providing the best environment for you daughter.  Don't get me wrong I am sure you love her but without support from your new wife it sounds like it's not a good environment for her.  I'd also think about how your new wife is acting towards your daughter and decide if you can live with the cold heartedness.  Cause it's probably not going to get any better.  

I have no idea why anyone brought up a string from way back in September...and it really was less about my wife if you ended up reading the entire thing.

the situation was resolved a long time ago. She is with her mom and everything is how it should be.