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Main Forums => Father's Issues => Topic started by: joni on Oct 18, 2004, 09:07:01 AM

Title: Foreign policy of the Heinz (as in John Kerry's wife) Companies
Post by: joni on Oct 18, 2004, 09:07:01 AM


Facts Regarding John Kerry's Wife-Scary

I checked and my bottle of Heinz catsup says "Product of Canada"! Guess I'll be checking out all the Heinz products at the store! Shortly after reading the following e-mail content, I happened to look at the label of a jar of Heinz sandwich slice pickles.

Yep...."Made in Mexico." Check some of your Heinz products.

Sen. John Kerry keeps talking about U.S. corporations leaving this country and setting up shop in foreign countries, taking thousands of jobs with them. He is right, because that has happened. However, he is trying to blame it on George W. Bush. As far as I know, Bush has not moved one factory out of this country because he is not the owner of a single factory.

That cannot be said about Kerry and his wife, Teresa Heinz-Kerry, who, by the way, refers to herself as African American because she was born in South Africa and now lives in the US.

According to the Wall Street Journal, the Kerry's own 32 factories in Europe and 18 in Asia and the Pacific. In addition, their company, the Heinz Company, leases four factories in Europe and four in Asia.

Also, they own 27 factories in North America, some of which are in Mexico and the Caribbean. I wonder how many hundreds of American workers lost their jobs when these plants relocated in foreign countries. I also wonder if the workers in Mexico and Asia are paid the same wages and benefits as workers in the United States. Of course they're not.

However, Kerry demands that other companies that relocate should pay the same benefits they did in the U.S. Why does he not demand this of the Heinz Company, since he is married to the owner?

If Kerry is elected, will he and his wife close all those foreign factories and bring all those jobs back to America? Of course they won't. They're making millions off that cheap foreign labor.

This message was NOT approved by John Kerry.

Every American needs to see this list of companies that the Democratic Presidential nominee's wife owns and controls. Do you find it bothersome that she would have control over him (bucks talk) and he could sell out our entire country???

And lest us not forget how John Edwards became a millionaire.  He's an ambulance chasing lawyer who sued doctors.  Many doctors in this country are in crisis because of the staggering amount of medical malpractice insurance premiums.  Many doctors are quitting practice, many other doctors are leaving rural areas.  In Illinois, there are no neurosurgeons one hour west of Chicago.  There are no neurosurgeons 2 hours south of Chicago until you hit St. Louis.  If you suffer a brain injury in Southern Illinois, you have to be airlifted to St. Louis or Memphis!

You think the Kerry/Edwards administration is really going to save health care in our country?

Please read the following:

John Kerry's Wife

Do you find it strange that Kerry's wife is never with him?

Do you find it strange that you never hear any thing about her?

This may be why!

As time goes on, we're just getting to know the possible future First Lady of the United States of America, and it is quite interesting.

You'll be hearing even more about Teresa Heinz Kerry, wife of Democratic front-runner.

She has quite a track record, especially when it comes to the causes she donates to.

One of her favorite charities is the Tides Foundation.

What is that, you ask?

This foundation sends hundreds of millions of dollars to groups that protested the invasion of Iraq; that demands open U.S. borders; and provides legal defense for suspected terrorists.

Among other groups supported by Kerry's wife:

Ramsey Clark's International Action Center.
This is the same Ramsey Clark that offered to defend Saddam Hussein.

Another group seeks to ease restrictions on immigration from terrorist nations.

Another group has links to the terrorist group Hamas.

And on and on.

American jobs are OUTSOURCED by John F. Kerry and his wife Teresa Heinz-Kerry!

We need to ask:

Why not manufacture in America and ship finished products overseas?

How many American workers are in these Heinz overseas factories?

HEINZ WATTIE'S AUSTRALASIA - Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

HEINZ SINGAPORE PTE. LTD. - Republic of Singapore

HEINZ WATTIE'S LIMITED - Auckland, New Zealand

HEINZ JAPAN LTD - Tokyo, Japan

HEINZ-UFE LTD. - Guangzhou, People's Republic of China

HEINZ COSCO - Qingdao, People's Republic of China

HEINZ KOREA LTD. - Inchon, South Korea

HEINZ WIN CHANCE LTD. - Bangkok, Thailand

HEINZ INDIA PRIVATE LIMITED - Mumbai, India

PT HEINZ ABC INDONESIA - Jakarta, Indonesia

PT HEINZ SUPRAMA - Surabaya, Indonesia

HEINZ UFC PHILIPPINES - Manila, the Philippines

HEINZ HONG KONG LIMITED - Wanchai, Hong Kong

H. J. HEINZ (Botswana) (Proprietary) LTD. - Gaborone, Botswana

KGALAGADI SOAP INDUSTRIES (Pty) LTD. - Gaborone, Botswana

REFINED OIL PRODUCTS (Pty) LTD. - Gaborone, Botswana

OLIVINE INDUSTRIES (Private) LIMITED - Harare, Zimbabwe

CHEGUTU CANNERS (Pvt) LTD. - Chegutu, Zimbabwe

HEINZ SOUTH AFRICA (PTY) LTD. - Johannesburg, South Africa

HEINZ WELLINGTON'S (PTY) LTD. - Wellington, South frica

HEINZ EUROPE - Hayes, Middlesex, England

H. J. HEINZ COMPANY LIMITED - Hayes Park, Hayes, Middlesex, England

H. J. HEINZ COMPANY LIMITED - Rovereto, Italy

H. J. HEINZ COMPANY LIMITED - Telford, England

JOHN WEST FOODS LIMITED - Liverpool, England

H. J. HEINZ FROZEN & CHILLED FOODS LIMITED - Hayes, Middlesex, England

H. J. HEINZ COMPANY (IRELAND) LIMITED - Dublin, Ireland

H.J. HEINZ COMPANY OF CANADA LTD - North York, Ontario, Canada

OMSTEAD FOODS LIMITED - Wheatley, Ontario, Canada

ALIMENTOS HEINZ C.A. - Caracas, Venezuela

DISTRIBUIDORA BANQUETE, S.A. - San Jose, Costa Rica

HEINZ ITALIA S.r.l. - Milan, Italy

FATTORIA SCALDASOLE, S.p.a. - Monguzzo, Italy

COPAIS FOOD AND BEVERAGE COMPANY, S.A. - Athens, Greece

HEINZ POLSKA! Sp. ZO.O. - Warsaw, Poland

PUDLISZKI S.A. - Pudliszki, Poland

WODZISLAW, S.A. - Wodzislaw, Poland

ETS. PAULET S.A. - Douarnenez, France

H. J. HEINZ FROZEN S.A.R.L. - Paris, France

HEINZ IBERICA S.A. - Madrid, Spain

IDAL (Industrias de Alimentaca, Lda.) - Lisbon, Portugal

MIEDZYCHOD S.A. - Miedzychod, Poland

HEINZ C.I.S. - Moscow, Russia

HEINZ GEORGIEVSK - Georgievsk, Russia

CAIRO FOOD INDUSTRIES SAE - Cairo, Egypt

HEINZ REMEDIA LIMITED - Tel Aviv, Israel

STAR-KIST FOOD DA'OR LIMITED - Haifa, Israel

H. J. HEINZ GMBH - Di2 i3Yldorf, Germany

SONNEN BASSERMANN - Seesen, Germany

KONINKLIJKE DE RUIJTER BV - The Netherlands

HAK BV - The Netherlands

FOODMARK - The Netherlands

HONIG MERKARTIKELEN BV - The Netherlands

DRUKKERIJ DE GROENBOER - The Netherlands

H. J. HEINZ B.V - Elst, The Netherlands

H. J. HEINZ BELGIUM S.A. - Brussels, Belgium

SERV-A-PORTION - Turnhout, Belgium

Arimpex Industrie Alimentari S.R.L. - Rov! ereto, Italy

Comexo S.A. - Chateaurenard, France

HEINZ EUROPE - UK and IRELAND - Factories: Chorley, Fakenham, Grimsby, Kendal, Kitt Green, Leaminton, Luton, Okehampton, Telford, Westwick

Think of the conflict of interest a President would have who's wife owns business interests in all of these countries....

I don't think John Kerry's Vietnam service is going to make people look the other way on this stuff.
Title: WOOOOWWW!!!!!!!!!
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Oct 18, 2004, 09:11:18 AM
Joni, Great post! THX...
Title: RE: they aren't HER companies
Post by: catherine on Oct 18, 2004, 09:14:59 AM
It's called INHERITANCE.  She did not personally make ANY decisions regarding the company.

Oh, and about the Heinz factories being located in other countries  -- does it make sense to ship ripe tomatoes (for example) across the world in order to make ketchup?  Of course not.  Factories are located near the raw ingrediants for a reason.
Title: RE: they aren't HER companies
Post by: joni on Oct 18, 2004, 09:27:37 AM

Guess that puts the tomato farmers in the US out of business...especially when my ketchup says made in Canada....because Canadian tomatoes are cheaper than the ones in the US so of course, go to the source in Canada and put your factory up there where you can make more profit margin.

And her inheritance lets her give charity to questionable entities...
Title: as much as Bush has been connected to questionable businesses? *nm
Post by: catherine on Oct 18, 2004, 09:31:59 AM
?
Title: Missing the point...
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Oct 18, 2004, 09:48:45 AM
You are missing the point here. Her husband is running for President, her companies are all located out of the United States. It is sending a message...

Have you checked our economy lately?

"Children learn what they live"

Title: No, I'm not
Post by: catherine on Oct 18, 2004, 10:00:03 AM
They aren't HER businesses, was my point.  You missed mine.
Title: RE: Foreign policy of the Heinz (as in John Kerry's wife) Companies
Post by: Kitty C. on Oct 18, 2004, 10:15:00 AM
Personally, I refuse to vote for the lesser of two evils, but.........

Bush did NOT personally move businesses and corporations out of the US.  What he DID do was make it almost impossible for corporations to stay in business here in the US, so in order for them to remain in business, they took their companies elsewhere, for the cheap raw materials and labor and low or no taxes.

Maybe you haven't seen much of Teresa Heinz-Kerry, but you probably won't if you don't live in a swing state.  Here in Iowa, we're being DELUGED from both sides practically 24/7.  I've seen more of ALL the candidates and their spouses than I wish to think about.  Even the spouses of all the candidates have been campaining alone in this state.

I've found nothing good to say about either side.  I've seen family of friends die in a war that was based on lies of WMD's, driven by picket lines of workers who only want a decent wage and decent benefits for their families (while the corp. threatens to 'relocate'), and consoled friends who have had to either uproot their families because of plant closures or go on state assistance and/or to food pantries to feed their families.

IMO, BOTH those candidates have lost what is most important to this country, home and family.  All they can see is the 'big picture' and refuse to acknowledge that in order to even have that, you have to have a base or foundation.  If that foundation is weak and constantly shifting, it's almost impossible to build on.

When a candidate comes along who is willing to clean up his or her own back yard before pointing fingers at others, then I might be able to vote with a clear conscious...........
Title: RE: Foreign policy of the Heinz (as in John Kerry's wife) Companies
Post by: jilly on Oct 18, 2004, 10:50:36 AM
My very best friend in the whole wide world lives in the UK and works for Heinz Europe - UK as a quality control manager. She goes to various factories (Spain, Italy, France, India, etc.) to inspect them and makes sure that they are following the health codes and that they are following the strict guidelines has for ingredients for Heinz products. She just got a promotion and is in charge of a baby food factory. The factory in Chorley (where my friend lives) was shut down a couple of years ago. It was part of the frozen food division and they made frozen pizzas.
She made it very clear to me that Teresa Heinz Kerry really has NOTHING to do with the running of the company itself. She just inherited the money from her husband.
I'm not making an endorsement for either candidate because I'm not impressed with either one of them.
Former President Bill Clinton is the one you can thank for the lose of jobs in America. It just didn't start hitting us until he left office. Same thing as people blaming the recession on former President Ronald Reagan. He just had the misfortune of being in office when the
decision(s) of his predecessor(s) caught up with the economy.
As for where Heinz products are made....hellfire...have you seen where the majority of the products are made when you shop in Wal-Mart? That's why you don't see "Made In America" stamped on products anymore. Not many companies can make that claim anymore. And if you DO make that claim you better be dayum sure it IS because the government has very strict guidelines on what qualifes for "Made In America".
Title: RE: Foreign policy of the Heinz (as in John Kerry's wife) Companies
Post by: joni on Oct 18, 2004, 11:04:10 AM

Absolutely, you make some great points about inheriting an economy on the downslide from a predecessor president.

Speaking of inheritances....Ms. Teresa Heinz-Kerry should sell off the "inheritance" investment and drop the Heinz off of her name.  And stand on the podium and say that she's embarrassed by what her name sake has done to the American economy and that her husband's administration would put a stop to that.  All I hear out of her mouth is her mouthing off to reporters when she doesn't like the question put to her.

And you're absolutely right about shopping.  Last year I went to pick up a last minute XMas gift.  There were 8 or so people in line because the cash register had crashed.  Every single one of us were holding a present that said "Made in China".  All of the gifts next to us in line on the shelves said the same.

I changed my bank when I found out they outsourced their service department to India.  I closed a credit card for the same reason (Chase).  I changed my DSL  (Comcast)  when I found out they outsourced their tech support to Canada.

So I pay more for these services.  I hope to make a small dent by example and feel less hypocritical when I go to sleep at night.  
Title: RE: No, I'm not
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Oct 18, 2004, 11:13:10 AM

Oh, and about the Heinz factories being located in other countries -- does it make sense to ship ripe tomatoes (for example) across the world in order to make ketchup? Of course not. Factories are located near the raw ingrediants for a reason.>

Your words not mine...

She may not be directly giving orders, but I bet her hand is in the kitty, none the same.

"No offense Kitty C!"

"Children learn what they live"
Title: RE: Foreign policy of the Heinz (as in John Kerry's wife) Companies
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Oct 18, 2004, 11:18:04 AM
A few years back, Walmart really pushed the Made in America slogan. Too bad they didn't stick to it.

Hard to find anything these days, but when possible, I buy American made.

"Children learn what they live"
Title: Setting the record straight..........
Post by: msme on Oct 18, 2004, 12:21:27 PM
I got this a couple of weeks ago. Whenever I get something like this in my email, I always run it through http://www.snopes.com  This is an "Urban Legend" web site. They generally have the right information on anything that is going around.

As much as I dislike Kerry, I won't send out junk. The following was cut & pasted from Snopes.

Claim:   Senator John Kerry's wife owns Heinz, a company that outsources much of its work abroad.

Status:   False.

Example:   [Collected on the Internet 2004]


Kerry does not like off shore companies: Oh Really? Just came across a bit of information regarding Kerry and his claim of the Bush administration sending jobs abroad. Well, it seems that the Heinz Corporation, owned by Kerry's wife, has 79 plants where it manufacturers products and 57 of the 79 are located in countries outside of the U.S. How many U.S. jobs are lost here?

Factories located at: Taipei, Taiwan (makes Heinz baby foods) Dublin, Ireland; Paris, France; Dovarmenez, France; Lisbon, Portugal; Madrid, Spain; Milan, Italy; Monguzzo, Italy; Athens, Greece; Warsaw, Poland; Pudliszki, Poland; Wodzislaw, Poland; Miedzychod, Poland; Moscow, Russia; Georgievisk, Russia; Cairo, Egypt; Tel Aviv, Israel; Haifa, Isreal; Elst, The Netherlands and 6 other plants there; Brussels, Belgium; Dusseldorf, Germany; Seesen, Germany; Turnhout, Belgium; Rovereto, Italy; Chateaurenand, France; North York, Ontario, Canada; Wheatley, Ontario, Canada; Caracas,Venezuela; San Jose, Costa Rica; Johannesburg, South Africa; Gaborone, Botswana; Harare, Zimbabwe; Cheguta, Zimbabwe; Wellington, South Africa; Melbourne, Victoria, Australia; Republic of Singapore; Auckland, New Zealand; Tokyo, Japan; Guangzhov, People's Republic of China (makes infant cereal); Qingdao, People's Republic of China (makes infant foods, ketchup, mayonnaise & puree); Inchon, South Korea (makes Heinz products and StarKist); Bangkok, Thailand; Mumbai, India; Jakarta, Indonesia; Surabaya, Indonesia; Manila, Philippines; Wanchai, Hong Kong.

Also recently purchased from Bordens these products: Classico Pasta Sauce; Aunt Millies Pasta Sauce; Mrs. Grass Receipt Soups; Wylers Bouillons & Soups.

Think of the conflict of interest a President would have who's wife owns business interests in all of these countries and others. Pass it on!!!!
 

Origins:   In  
1995, Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts wed Teresa Heinz, whom he first met at an Earth Day rally in 1990. Born  Teresa Simões-Ferreira in Mozambique to Portuguese parents, Mrs. Kerry was previously married for 25 years to Henry John Heinz III, who was a member of the founding family of the H.J. Heinz Company and represented Pennsylvania for twenty years in both the U.S. House of Representatives and the Senate prior to his death in a plane crash in 1991. Mrs. Kerry inherited a Heinz family fortune estimated at over $500 million.

Although Senator Kerry has been critical of the Bush administration for rewarding "Benedict Arnold CEOs" who move "profits and jobs overseas," the above-quoted attempt to link Kerry (through his wife) with the very outsourcing he decries is flawed in two major ways. First off, Teresa Heinz Kerry does not "own the Heinz Corporation" — she has no involvement whatsoever with the management or operations of the H.J. Heinz Company, nor does she own anything close to a controlling interest of the company's stock. According to Heinz itself, the Heinz family trust which Mrs. Kerry inherited sold most of its shares of Heinz stock back in 1995 and currently holds less than a 4% interest in the company:

Neither Mrs. Heinz Kerry nor Senator Kerry nor any of the Heinz trusts or endowments — either individually or collectively — holds a significant percentage of shares of the H.J. Heinz Company. In 1995 the Heinz Endowments and family trusts sold a large percentage of Heinz shares in a secondary share offering to diversify their holdings. As a result, their current holdings are under 4 percent.

There is no connection between any philanthropic programs of the H.J. Heinz Company and its Foundation and the Heinz family interests (including the Howard Heinz Endowment, the Vira Heinz Endowment, and the Heinz Family Philanthropies).
(A 4% stake in a company as large as Heinz still represents a considerable amount of money, but it isn't nearly large enough a share to give the holder any significant control or influence over the company's business decisions.)

Moreover, the Heinz Company's operations are not an example of the type of outsourcing that is currently a hot political issue (i.e., sending out work to offshore companies to provide services which a company might otherwise have employed its own staff to perform). Heinz is a U.S.-based global business which sells its products in dozens of other countries, and like other food companies it has to localize some of its production at factories located in its foreign market areas. (It makes little sense from either an economic or a freshness standpoint to be shipping fruits and vegetables and/or finished food products halfway around the world rather than producing them locally.) One wouldn't expect, for example, every can and bottle of Coca-Cola sold anywhere in the world — whether it be Australia, China, or Portugal — to be produced by U.S. bottlers.)

As the H.J. Heinz Company notes, well over half its sales come from foreign markets, and it therefore operates overseas facilities to serve those markets:

Currently, 60% of the sales of the H.J. Heinz Company are outside the United States and to accommodate those customers by providing facilities closer to those markets, the company maintains a number of overseas facilities that provide products for consumers in those markets. This allows Heinz to pack the freshest ingredients, tailor its recipes to local tastes and deliver the finished products in a timely and efficient manner. In the United States, Heinz makes its flagship ketchup in factories in Fremont, Ohio; Muscatine, Iowa; and Stockton, California.
Last updated:   30 March 2004  
 
The URL for this page is http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/heinz.asp
Click here to e-mail this page to a friend

You never get a second chance to make a first impression!
Title: RE: they aren't HER companies
Post by: Peanutsdad on Oct 18, 2004, 04:47:54 PM
>It's called INHERITANCE.  She did not personally make ANY
>decisions regarding the company.
>
>Oh, and about the Heinz factories being located in other
>countries  -- does it make sense to ship ripe tomatoes (for
>example) across the world in order to make ketchup?  Of course
>not.  Factories are located near the raw ingrediants for a
>reason.


I guess we dont grow tomatoes in the US. Tell me ,, who produces MOST of the worlds agriculture?
Title: RE: Foreign policy of the Heinz (as in John Kerry's wife) Companies
Post by: Brent on Oct 18, 2004, 05:32:19 PM
>Facts Regarding John Kerry's Wife-Scary

I don't care if she worships Satan and laughs while impaling newborns on metal spikes. The fact is that Bush has got to go. Period.

Don't think of it as electing Kerry- think of it as getting rid of George Bush.

I personally think both of them (Bush and Kerry) are hypocritical scumbags with too damn much money and power already. They both lie, cheat, and steal. They will both tell you whatever fantasy you want or need to hear in order to get your vote, so don't kid yourself.

The only difference is that Bush has already has his chance to do whatever damage he can to this country, and he's done a bang-up job of it too. Time for a new crooked politician to come in and destroy the county. Out with the old crooks, in with the new.
Title: Thnks Brent, couldn't have said it better, was thinkin the same thing!!
Post by: smtotwo on Oct 18, 2004, 07:49:19 PM
NM
Title: thank you for posting this
Post by: catherine on Oct 19, 2004, 06:52:07 AM
I had read both spams (the original and this one) and these were the points I was trying to make but I did so with little grace.
Title: see msme's post please. *nm
Post by: catherine on Oct 19, 2004, 06:52:32 AM
.
Title: RE: they aren't HER companies
Post by: Kitty C. on Oct 19, 2004, 07:31:19 AM
Yup, they do, PD.  That's why there's a Heinz plant about 40 miles from where I live, right near the fields where their tomatoes are grown. In fact, DH worked for a farmer in our area when he was much younger, on his tomato farm.  This man sold to Heinz, as that was the closest manufacturer and you cannot ship massive amounts of tomatoes far.

For those of you who live in CA or any other place where they grow tomatoes, those large hopper-bottom semis you see heaped full of tomatoes...those are going directly to a processing plant.  They are NOT the tomatoes that will be sold individually in a supermarket.  For those, they are packed and shipped almost directly from the farmer, so as to protect them during shipment.

As far as who produces the most, you have to be commodity-specific, PD.  As for beef and pork, I'd say the US, but in grains, it can be a toss-up on any given year, between us, Canada, Russia, and Argentina.

There's a farm equip. manufacturer not far from here (no, it's NOT John Deere) who makes the LARGEST wagons and implements in the world.  I've met the man who invented them, he's a farmer and a genius.  He makes 36 row planters and 700 bushel auger wagons.  BUT his biggest buyer is NOT the US, it's to foreign countries.

Having grown up an Iowa farmer's daughter, I've seen many changes in agriculture, the largest being the slow demise of the family farmer to the big corporations.  But right up there is the lack of continuous dominance by the US in the agriculture markets.  As a nation, we've done our job well in bringing prosperity to 2nd and 3rd world nations, as they are MUCH more self-supporting than there were just 20-30 years ago.

But the ONE huge difference between a company that is perishable produce based (as in tomatoes) and almost anyone else is that you HAVE to go where the product is.  It's almost impossible to transport those commodities long distances without adding huge costs to the comsumers.  So if they can grow tomatoes in many other places besides Muscatine, IA, they HAVE to manufacture there.  It only makes economic sense.

It's for the same reason why there are no large wineries here in Iowa, because this area is not conducive to growing grapes.  It has NOTHING to do with moving jobs elsewhere.

Thus ends your lesson in agriculture for today...........  ;-)
Title: Excuse me - but it is an INTERNATIONAL COMPANY
Post by: cathy on Oct 19, 2004, 12:34:33 PM
And it is not HER company.  She owns less than 4% I believe.

So, guess you think Heinz should manufacture ALL their products in the USA and just tell the people in other countries to buy them.  Gee - maybe they would be a little put out, ya think?
Title: It isn't HER COMPANY!!!!!!!!!
Post by: cathy on Oct 19, 2004, 12:36:00 PM
And it is an INTERNATIONAL COMPANY.  Of course they are going to have locations outside of the USA
Title: Gee, now let's discuss Bush being an alcholic and Laura killing
Post by: cathy on Oct 19, 2004, 12:40:51 PM
her boyfriend when she was a teenager.
Title: Now that you brought it up...
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Oct 19, 2004, 01:16:13 PM
NYTimes.com > Opinion  
EDITORIAL OBSERVER
Imagining America if George Bush Chose the Supreme
Court
By ADAM COHEN

Published: October 18, 2004

Abortion might be a crime in most states. Gay people
could be thrown in prison for having sex in their
homes. States might be free to become
mini-theocracies, endorsing

Christianity and using tax money to help spread the
gospel. The Constitution might no longer protect
inmates from being brutalized by prison guards. Family
and medical leave and environmental protections could
disappear.

It hardly sounds like a winning platform, and of
course President Bush isn't openly espousing these
positions. But he did say in his last campaign that
his favorite Supreme Court justices were Antonin
Scalia and Clarence Thomas, and the nominations he has
made to the lower courts bear that out. Justices
Scalia and Thomas are often called "conservative," but
that does not begin to capture their philosophies.
Both vehemently reject many of the core tenets of
modern constitutional law.

For years, Justices Scalia and Thomas have been
lobbing their judicial Molotov cocktails from the
sidelines, while the court proceeded on its
moderate-conservative path. But given the ages and
inclinations of the current justices, it is quite
possible that if Mr. Bush is re-elected, he will get
three appointments, enough to forge a new majority
that would turn the extreme Scalia-Thomas worldview
into the law of the land.

There is every reason to believe Roe v. Wade would
quickly be overturned. Mr. Bush ducked a question
about his views on Roe in the third debate. But he
sent his base a coded message in the second debate,
with an odd reference to the Dred Scott case. Dred
Scott, an 1857 decision upholding slavery, is rarely
mentioned today, except in right-wing legal circles,
where it is often likened to Roe. (Anti-abortion
theorists say that the court refused to see blacks as
human in Dred Scott and that the same thing happened
to fetuses in Roe.) For more than a decade, Justices
Scalia and Thomas have urged their colleagues to
reverse Roe and "get out of this area, where we have
no right to be."

If Roe is lost, the Center for Reproductive Rights
warns, there's a good chance that 30 states, home to
more than 70 million women, will outlaw abortions
within a year; some states may take only weeks.
Criminalization will sweep well beyond the Bible Belt:
Ohio could be among the first to drive young women to
back-alley abortions and prosecute doctors.

If Justices Scalia and Thomas become the
Constitution's final arbiters, the rights of racial
minorities, gay people and the poor will be rolled
back considerably. Both men dissented from the Supreme
Court's narrow ruling upholding the University of
Michigan's affirmative-action program, and appear
eager to dismantle a wide array of diversity programs.
When the court struck down Texas' "Homosexual Conduct"
law last year, holding that the police violated John
Lawrence's right to liberty when they raided his home
and arrested him for having sex there, Justices Scalia
and Thomas sided with the police.

They were just as indifferent to the plight of
"M.L.B.," a poor mother of two from Mississippi. When
her parental rights were terminated, she wanted to
appeal, but Mississippi would not let her because she
could not afford a court fee of $2,352.36. The Supreme
Court held that she had a constitutional right to
appeal. But Justices Scalia and Thomas dissented,
arguing that if M.L.B. didn't have the money, her
children would have to be put up for adoption.

That sort of cruelty is a theme running through many
Scalia-Thomas opinions. A Louisiana inmate sued after
he was shackled and then punched and kicked by two
prison guards while a supervisor looked on. The court
ruled that the beating, which left the inmate with a
swollen face, loosened teeth and a cracked dental
plate, violated the prohibition of cruel and unusual
punishment. But Justices Scalia and Thomas insisted
that the Eighth Amendment was not violated by the
"insignificant" harm the inmate suffered.

This year, the court heard the case of a man with a
court appearance in rural Tennessee who was forced to
either crawl out of his wheelchair and up to the
second floor or be carried up by court officers he
worried would drop him. The man crawled up once, but
when he refused to do it again, he was arrested. The
court ruled that Tennessee violated the Americans With
Disabilities Act by not providing an accessible
courtroom, but Justices Scalia and Thomas said it
didn't have to.

A Scalia-Thomas court would dismantle the wall between
church and state. Justice Thomas gave an indication of
just how much in his opinion in a case upholding
Ohio's school voucher program. He suggested, despite
many Supreme Court rulings to the contrary, that the
First Amendment prohibition on establishing a religion
may not apply to the states. If it doesn't, the states
could adopt particular religions, and use tax money to
proselytize for them. Justices Scalia and Thomas have
also argued against basic rights of criminal suspects,
like the Miranda warning about the right to remain
silent.

President Bush claims to want judges who will apply
law, not make it. But Justices Scalia and Thomas are
judicial activists, eager to use the fast-expanding
federalism doctrine to strike down laws that protect
people's rights. Last year, they dissented from a
decision upholding the Family and Medical Leave Act,
which guarantees most workers up to 12 weeks of unpaid
leave to care for a loved one. They said Congress did
not have that power. They have expressed a desire to
strike down air pollution and campaign finance laws
for similar reasons.

Neither President Bush nor John Kerry has said much
about Supreme Court nominations, wary of any issue
whose impact on undecided voters cannot be readily
predicted. But voters have to think about the Supreme
Court. If President Bush gets the chance to name three
young justices who share the views of Justices Scalia
and Thomas, it could fundamentally change America for
decades.

 
"Children learn what they live"
Title: RE: Now that you brought it up...
Post by: Kitty C. on Oct 19, 2004, 02:22:02 PM
Thank you SO much for posting this, MSD!  What an eye opener!  I mean, I've heard of this vaguely, but never in this detail and it just solidifies my opinions!
Title: RE: Excuse me - but it is an INTERNATIONAL COMPANY
Post by: joni on Oct 19, 2004, 03:31:37 PM

it would be a taste of their own medicine...it's what other countries do to us all the time....send us their goods tariff free and tax the crap out of anything we try to import into their country because they're protecting their own manufacturing base.  it would level the playing field.
Title: Thank you Joni, well said
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Oct 19, 2004, 05:55:11 PM
Not only that, but everyone is forgetting the 4 % that she still holds. Bet with a Mega Million operation, she could still live comfortably...
Title: Mine too...[nm]
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Oct 19, 2004, 05:56:25 PM

"Children learn what they live"
Title: RE: Foreign policy of the Heinz (as in John Kerry's wife) Companies
Post by: BobbyLee on Oct 20, 2004, 05:28:50 AM
It never ceases to amaze me how much support Bush receives from the people who are most negatively affected by his policies.  If you are for cutting programs for children and sending your children off to die for oil, then he is your man.  If you make over $200,000 a year, be sure to vote for him.  If you believe that corporate America puts too much effort into protecting our environment----of course vote Bush.  If you believe guns are more important to children than after school programs, absolutely support Bush. The list goes on and on.  Nothing scares me more than 4 more years of this guy.  Not even catsup and pickles!
Title: Not trying to be argumentative,
Post by: cathy on Oct 20, 2004, 05:34:38 AM
but I really don't understand what your point is here.  Are you saying she isn't entitled to live comfortably?  (probably with the kind of money we are talking about, welllll beyond comfortable)

It sounds like you are mad at her because she happens to have money - - - what am I missing here?
Title: And what would that accomplish?
Post by: cathy on Oct 20, 2004, 05:40:53 AM
Sorry, but I just don't see how anything gets better when you take a "tit for tat" attitude.

And so far as "leveling the playing field" - exactly how do you do that?  When you are the powerhouse, have resources beyond compare, technology superior to any - - - how do you "level the playing field" with countries that are struggling with poverty, countries that are trying to rebuild, countries that have outdated technology, countries that have little to no resources or skills?  

Or would you have us simply say "Nah nah nah here's a taste of your own medicine" and watch them go down the tubes?

So your solution is to propogate what you yourself think is a problem? Hmmmmm
Title: May I ask....
Post by: cathy on Oct 20, 2004, 05:46:06 AM
if it solidifies your opinion FOR Bush, or AGAINST Bush?
Title: RE: May I ask....
Post by: Kitty C. on Oct 20, 2004, 07:24:29 AM
Against, of course!  Packing a Supreme Court with a bunch of right-wing conservatives is NOT in the best interests of this country, especially right now.  The Supreme Court must be as close to neutral as possible, so you have to have a balance among the nine justices.  Throwing that balance off can have disasterous effects on us all.
Title: people in glass houses
Post by: joni on Oct 20, 2004, 07:58:07 AM

The concept of macro economics is tedious....but you made some valid points here....our country is struggling with poverty, we need to build our rural areas, many businesses go out of business in our own backyard because of outdated technology, how many of our own citizens have little to no resources or skills?  The point is we're not taking care of our own.

Other countries do a much better job of taking care of their own.  Their economy is strong because they live off of their own manufactured goods, they don't allow imports and if they do, they tax the crap of the import so it doesn't eclipse their own manufactured items in selling price.

Do you honestly believe that Heinz opened foreign plants to reinvest in foreign economies?  Come on!  Heinz opened these plants because the foreign country would not make it economically feasible for them to sell their items because of tariffs.  We have an open door for free trade.  We don't get the same in return.  

To avoid the tariffs that other countries impose on us, hell, just open a plant in the foreign country and close a few in our own putting how many Americans out of business?  Hey...the US allows imports and it's so cheap to manufacturer this stuff in China or Mexico, let's just close down some more US plants and then import our own stuff back into the US.  Need customer phone service?  Let's open some offices in Canada ($.65 cents on the US dollar for labor) and India ($.10 cents on the US dollar for labor).

I have no problem with rich people.  When our child support obligation is finished and we stop having legal battles over visitation and custody, I will be a rich person.  I hate the hypocrisy of politics and when I listen to the contender going on and on about what the current administration is doing wrong in this regard and his wife's investment inheritance has done the same thing, what credibility does he have?  Nada.  So I say to Heinz-Kerry, if you support your husband's platform, sell the rest of your investment and get up on the soapbox and say to your contingents, I'm embarrassed that Heinz has taken away US jobs and I won't make any more money off of it.  It's a conflict of interest.  
Title: RE: Foreign policy of the Heinz (as in John Kerry's wife) Companies
Post by: joni on Oct 20, 2004, 08:14:48 AM

How do people making over $200,000 a year benefit so much?  First, they're in the highest tax percentage bracket.  Also, you get no childcare benefit or child tax credit because it's phased out.  Also, you begin to lose your exemptions and those diminish.  Your Schedule A items....you don't get the full deduction for these and that how you wind up paying 50% of your income in tax.  School loans?  Forget about, you don't get that interest deduction because you lost that the minute you earned over $100,000.  
Title: Reinvest in foreign economies???
Post by: cathy on Oct 20, 2004, 08:15:23 AM
Nope, do not believe that for a minute - not the Heinz cooperation itself.  First and foremost, they are a company and their purpose is to make money for its investors.

I was saying it is an INTERNATIONAL company.  They sell their products everywhere, and I believe that more than half their sales are outside of the US.  So how is it taking "US jobs"?  You think they should ONLY produce their product in the US and sell it everywhere else?

And once again - it is NOT Heinz-Kerry's company.  She inherited less than 4% of the company.  This certainly isn't enough to even remotely think that SHE personally makes the decisions for this company.

Again - you are comparing apples and oranges.  This is NOT what is being criticized.

Title: Whew! :-)
Post by: cathy on Oct 20, 2004, 08:16:52 AM
I have learned not to make assumptions - - - - and yeah, the thought that you meant you supported those ideas was verrrrry scarey!

I'm sure probably 99.9% of us are in the same boat - really wanting a candidate we can vote FOR, rather than just voting AGAINST.
Title: RE: Not trying to be argumentative,
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Oct 20, 2004, 08:20:03 AM
I could give a shit less about the money, I stand on principles. Her husband is running for President, our economy sucks. Our work force is going down the toilet...

An effort to keep American jobs here should be at the forefront.
ENOUGH SAID.

Could you survive on unemployment or the minimum wage?
That is what is going to happen with so many companies looking for different turf. How many have already left?

"Children learn what they live"
Title: RE: Whew! :-)
Post by: joni on Oct 20, 2004, 08:21:49 AM

I was thinking of making the reference back to the old Dick Van Dyke show of to never assume because you make an ASS out of U and ME.  

--I'm sure probably 99.9% of us are in the same boat - really wanting a candidate we can vote FOR, rather than just voting AGAINST.--

http://badnarik.org





Title: RE: May I ask....
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Oct 20, 2004, 08:24:10 AM
I vote for neither, their not 'worthy'
 
They are not the only canidates on the ballot...

"Children learn what they live"
Title: RE: Whew! :-)
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Oct 20, 2004, 08:27:59 AM
Nice......

"Children learn what they live"
Title: But how are these "Ameican jobs"???
Post by: cathy on Oct 20, 2004, 08:28:28 AM
More than half of the Heinz company sales are outside the US.  (even if it were "her" company)



Title: That was the exact quote I was thinking of...
Post by: cathy on Oct 20, 2004, 08:30:04 AM
although I never knew its origin!

In this case, glad my assumption (IF I had made it :-)  was correct!
Title: True -
Post by: cathy on Oct 20, 2004, 08:31:40 AM
but it seems are choice is to vote for a candidate that we may consider more worthy, but has no chance in hell of being elected....

or to vote for the lesser of two evils.

Neither are very palatable - and probably the biggest reason lots of people don't even bother to vote.
Title: RE: Reinvest in foreign economies???
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Oct 20, 2004, 08:32:05 AM
So, your saying, the hell with American jobs...

The point is, not a good reflection on her husband. Not only that, why does she not stand beside him?

Don't you have a board to go home to...

"Children learn what they live"
Title: You just don't get it....
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Oct 20, 2004, 08:33:50 AM

"Children learn what they live"
Title: I ASKED YOU BEFORE...
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Oct 20, 2004, 08:40:07 AM
Can you survive on unemployment or minimum wage...

Losing jobs in this country hurts everyone. The economy is a big factor in every election.

Do you need reading glasses?

"Children learn what they live"
Title: No need to be rude...
Post by: cathy on Oct 20, 2004, 08:45:01 AM
And I asked you questions you never answered as well.

I apologize.  I thought you were asking a rhetorical question.  Can I survive on unemployment or minimum wage?  I have no idea, I am fortunate in that I have never had to.  I am sure that if I were in a position were I HAD TO, I would obviously find a way.

Do I need reading glasses?  No I don't.  I have 20/20| 20/15 vision.

Now - how do you determine that the people employed in other countries by an international company who has more than half its sales outside the US - how do you determine that they are taking "US Jobs"?  Or perhaps YOU need reading glasses?  :)

Title: My my - you are quite a rude person
Post by: cathy on Oct 20, 2004, 08:47:43 AM
So do you consider this "your" board?  My, didn't realize it was private property for your exclusive use and for your views.

I don't see anywhere that I said "the hell with American jobs...."

Why does she stand by him....uh, let's see, cause he is HER HUSBAND??  Because the company that she inherited 4% in has NOTHING to do with the issue at hand????

American jobs - - - my my, as much as I love this country, I am beginning to understand the concept of the "ugly American".  

Geeez
Title: That was very informative....
Post by: cathy on Oct 20, 2004, 08:49:57 AM
Thanks so much.

I can tell that you aren't willing to provide any information, just repeat the same tired old slogans of "AMERICAN JOBS" without any thought behind it.

Title: the real issue of "taking jobs"
Post by: catherine on Oct 20, 2004, 08:50:33 AM
Isn't international companies like Heinz.

The issue that's being discussed and debated by the men in charge is outsourcing Help Desk/programming type jobs to countries like India.

I don't think the other poster quite understands this.
Title: RE: No need to be rude...
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Oct 20, 2004, 08:50:50 AM
That is not the point we are trying to make.

It hurts our econmy when companies are moved out of the country.

The point is, how it reflects on her husband, get it?

"Children learn what they live"
Title: RE: My my - you are quite a rude person
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Oct 20, 2004, 08:53:21 AM
I never see her by his side. where is she?

"Children learn what they live"
Title: hey cathy
Post by: catherine on Oct 20, 2004, 08:54:04 AM
my question is, how does he even know you have a board "to go home to" as was put so snottily?
Title: Exactly....
Post by: cathy on Oct 20, 2004, 08:55:31 AM
And I don't think they WANT to understand that.

The fact is - the jobs they are talking about are NOT US JOBS
Title: Right
Post by: catherine on Oct 20, 2004, 08:57:20 AM
No Heinz factory was closed down in the United States to reopen in another country to save on labour.
Title: RE: That was very informative....
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Oct 20, 2004, 08:58:37 AM
Well, you go argue with someone else, I have better things to do.

The information you seek is all around you, just look. Been going on for at least twenty years, companies have been moving out of this country for a long time now.

I could give a damn about Kerry or Bush, neither one deserve my vote...

"Children learn what they live"
Title: Oh yeah - *I* get it....
Post by: cathy on Oct 20, 2004, 08:59:08 AM
Not sure YOU do though.

Again - how do you see Heinz are moving jobs out of the country????

And personally, I think it is rather idiotic for someone to make judgements about a presidential candidate based on erroneous, misconstrued info about a company his wife inherited less than 4% of.
Title: Huh??
Post by: cathy on Oct 20, 2004, 09:01:03 AM
SHE isn't running for office.

I've seen her by his side, but she (I hope) has a life other than "the wife of the candidate"
Title: Taking your bat and ball and going home...
Post by: cathy on Oct 20, 2004, 09:04:46 AM
Sure there are companies doing that - - BUT THIS THREAD WASN'T TALKING ABOUT THEM!

The issue was about trying to hold it against Kerry because Heinz has plants in other countries and hires people in other countries.

Yeah - I couldn't give a rat's ass about either of the candidates - but it is ridiculous to argue that Kerry is a hypocrit cause his wife has 4% in an international company, and extrapolate that they are taking "US Jobs"

Title: RE: Taking your bat and ball and going home...
Post by: MYSONSDAD on Oct 20, 2004, 09:09:56 AM
Well, I won't waste my time arguing with you. And as far as taking my bat and ball, going home.

 No, I am walking down to the unemployment office. I have better issues then this to discuss...
 
"Children learn what they live"
Title: RE: That was the exact quote I was thinking of...
Post by: joni on Oct 20, 2004, 09:14:44 AM

So are you going to look at Badnarik's web site and listen to Glenn Sacks show this Sunday?  I hope that's why that you're glad, not just because there's less votes for Bush, but that's there is a viable alternative and to send a message.  It'll be a chance to hear a candidate who was denied and then arrested for trying to participate in the presidential debate.  A candidate who's platform  CLEARLY supports the assumption of JLC and going after states (like Michigan) that infringe on noncustodial parents constitional rights?
-------------------------------
The promo for this week's His Side--Libertarian Presidential Candidate Michael Badnarik Defends Noncustodial Parents' Rights--is below.

I invite you to call the show and join the discussion in progress at 1-877-590-KTIE (in California) or 1-800-439-4805 (out of state). The show can be heard at 5 PM PST/8 PM EST on Sunday (10/24)--to listen, click here.

If you would like to ask Michael Badnarik a question live on the air or by e-mail, email your first name and phone number to Glenn@HisSide.com.

http://www.hisside.com

http://badnarik.org/plans_parentsrights.php
Title: Yeah - that's what you said before......
Post by: cathy on Oct 20, 2004, 09:26:38 AM
Maybe that was the problem - you were arguing, I was trying to discuss.  But you never wanted to answer any of the questions.  Just kept repeating erroneous information.

If you are truly on the way to the unemployment office, than I wish you luck in finding a job.
Title: I will definitely look at the website....
Post by: cathy on Oct 20, 2004, 09:35:31 AM
but it will probably depress me.....cause if he truly is a candidate that aligns more with my views and belief, it will be utterly depressing.

Unfortunately, I am too much of a realist to think that a candidate from any party other than Democratic or Republican will be elected.  

I really hate to even say this - but typically, it seems that the "outlayers" that throw their hate in the ring attract enough votes to possibly sway the election to the candidate that is at the other extreme.  Did that make sense???  

I know all the heartfelt speeches on making a difference - - - and one voice joined with others........but I just don't have that in me.  I take my hat off to those that do have it in them to lead the way and hopefully make it so that one day, we realistically have more than 2 choices.

Title: My Grandmother always said..........
Post by: msme on Oct 20, 2004, 09:58:21 AM
Politics & religion make strange bedfellows. They are 2 subjects you never discuss with friends or family. Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. That's why they have curtains around the voting booths. I feel we should all respect each others opinions. State your facts & let those who read them do as they please with the information.

I will defend with my life your right to do that & I will expect the same from you. This thread has dominated way to much time & space on this board & personally, I really wouldn't call it a fathers issue, anyway.
(Do I hear gender bias?) Just kidding. Sorry, I couldn't resist.

May I politely suggest that each & everyone of us stop & pray for all the candidates & our country. We should also pray that there is a large voter turnout & that every voter make an informed decision & votes with both their brain & their heart.

God bless America.
You never get a second chance to make a first impression!
Title: RE: My Grandmother always said..........
Post by: Kitty C. on Oct 20, 2004, 10:07:31 AM
Perfectly said, Mom msme!!!!!!!!!!
Title: RE: My Grandmother always said..........
Post by: kitten on Oct 20, 2004, 10:16:02 AM
AMEN!!!!
Title: They certainly make an odd couple, don't they?
Post by: StPaulieGirl on Oct 21, 2004, 06:27:51 PM
Thank you for posting this.  Many people don't understand just how powerful Teresa Heinz-Kerry really is.  They also don't understand that John and Teresa are elitists who look down their noses at the rest of us.  They have no concept of how Mr. and Mrs. Normal live, or our daily concerns.

This stuff has been up on Free Republic for quite some time, and my family has been sending me emails entailing these facts.

Speaking of John Kerry's war record, and Teresa's uncontrollable mouth, here's a tinfoil thought:  we're so busy being shocked about her latest remarks about Laura Bush that we've all but forgotten the true status of John Kerry's military discharge....

Hmmm, tinfoil?  Ya'll decide.
Title: Lol @ Canadian tomatoes! Good point (nm)
Post by: StPaulieGirl on Oct 21, 2004, 06:30:21 PM
Hehe...
Title: They certainly make an odd couple, don't they?
Post by: StPaulieGirl on Oct 21, 2004, 06:27:51 PM
Thank you for posting this.  Many people don't understand just how powerful Teresa Heinz-Kerry really is.  They also don't understand that John and Teresa are elitists who look down their noses at the rest of us.  They have no concept of how Mr. and Mrs. Normal live, or our daily concerns.

This stuff has been up on Free Republic for quite some time, and my family has been sending me emails entailing these facts.

Speaking of John Kerry's war record, and Teresa's uncontrollable mouth, here's a tinfoil thought:  we're so busy being shocked about her latest remarks about Laura Bush that we've all but forgotten the true status of John Kerry's military discharge....

Hmmm, tinfoil?  Ya'll decide.
Title: Lol @ Canadian tomatoes! Good point (nm)
Post by: StPaulieGirl on Oct 21, 2004, 06:30:21 PM
Hehe...
Title: RE: I ASKED YOU BEFORE...
Post by: StPaulieGirl on Oct 22, 2004, 07:03:22 AM
No one can survive soley on unemployment or minumum wage.  My daughter is expecting her second child. I'll call him my son in law, because they've been together for 5 years, was laid off once again.  He is a certified electrician, but he needs a higher certificate in order to be kept on once the job is finished.  The class was not available while he was on unemployment, and he couldn't find a job.

They're on public assistance, BUT they're paying for that class that is finally being offered.  Hopefully, when he gets that certificate, he'll be able to get a job that will last.  His last job was working on that new Indian Casino in Palm Springs.  When the job was finished, so was he and most of the crew.  

It is obvious that the Kerrys don't care about the little people, or their real concerns.  This is why my daughter and son in law registered to vote for the first time.  They actually watched the debates, and the general conclusion is that Kerry is full of sh!t.  My other son in law is a Democrat, and is so disgusted, that he isn't even going to vote.  I mentioned Badnarik's name, so maybe he'll check him out.
Title: RE: the real issue of
Post by: StPaulieGirl on Oct 22, 2004, 07:27:38 AM
The issue that's being discussed and debated by the men in charge is outsourcing Help Desk/programming type jobs to countries like India.

Gee, this has been going on for so long that you've forgotten about all the factories that now operate in China.  Ask people in the Midwest and the "rust belt" what happened to their factory jobs.  They are now being performed by slave laborers in camps.

It's not just IT and help desk jobs.  True, Heinz is an international company, but why can't they operate factories here?  Not everyone can or wants to be in Information Technology, but people still need a steady paycheck for an honest days work.

The other poster understands this issue quite well, as do most of us.
Title: Not going to start all this again....
Post by: cathy on Oct 22, 2004, 08:48:28 AM
But Heinz DOES have operate factories here!

Again - the discussion was Kerry and his wife and the misinformation surrounding the Heinz company.

So, no, I don't think the poster understands this issue - or at least, isn't willing to discuss THIS issue.

Now - be done with it!  I know I am
Title: You said it so much better than I did
Post by: StPaulieGirl on Oct 22, 2004, 09:28:06 AM
You are right on target with this post.  We need to take care of our own, and tell the rest of the world to take a hike.  Why on earth does this government encourage companies to take their factories overseas, yet not tax the hell out of foreign imports, like the rest of our "allies" do?

Our government is practicing economic suicide.  We're supposed to buy the crap that this country needs to import workers to do the work that Americans won't do?  Bullshit!  Remember when you could get a job babysitting, mowing the neighbors lawn, or delivering newspapers?  How about college girls who used to be au pairs?  Nope, not anymore.  Those have now been classified as jobs we don't do.

That's the lowest rung on the job ladder.  Let's look at manual labor.  Drive by a Home Depot, or other home improvement mega store.  Heck, drive by a city park at 6 am.  What do you see?  Licensed contractors hire these men for construction work, under the table.  Why bother keeping a payroll so the government can tax you out of business, when you can pick up day laborers and pay them half of what the going rate is?

There is a slave trade in this country.  Every once in a while a story will appear on the news about a raid.  One several years ago, produced several hundred Asian women.  They had to work off their debt by being chained to sewing machines.  The smugglers actually owned an apartment building, and was apparently modified to resemble a prison camp.  Now I would like to know who bought the garments that were produced, and where they were distributed.  That was never, to my knowledge, discussed.

This is America dammit, and I read a story more recently about female immigrants being used as sex slaves....in Maine of all places!  If I tried really, really hard, I bet I could probably find that article.  Unbelievable!  Okay, that doesn't have anything to do with economics, but still....

Back on topic, it doesn't matter what side of the fence we're on politically, we all need to make a living, and so do our kids and stepkids.  At this point in time, all  I can say is create your own home business.  Of course most small businesses fail, because you pay more to the government in one way or another, than you take in.

I'm all ears for suggestions on how to fix this.  Kerry won't.  His idea of employment is having his butler serve him his peanut butter sandwiches...
Title: Tsk, tsk....no need to be that crabby
Post by: StPaulieGirl on Oct 22, 2004, 10:11:49 AM
We're talking economics.  Bush has his hands full trying to keep ME nutcases from blowing our country up.  Bush is in no way 100% responsible for the dire straits that we are in, economically.  That can be put on Jimmy Carter's doorstep.  Maybe even before him, but that's before my time.

Sure Bush could do better in regards to our economic security, but he's just a man, not a magician.  Please stop comparing Bush with Kerry.  I have problems, mainly with the border issue with Bush...however he isn't a bad person.  He cares, and you are old enough to know that he can't fix everything and make every one of us happy.

Kerry will completely bury us if he is elected.  If you think we have problems now Brent, just wait.  Do you really think that pompous wannabe gives a rats ass about what you or I care about?

Bush inherited Bill Clinton's house of cards. Imo, his biggest mistake was not firing every single Clinton employee when he took office.  

Look towards 2008.  The war in the ME is too important.  Also remember that Jacques Kerry supports worldwide interference in American business.  Also remember that there are a lot of people over there who welcome and depend on our presence.  We are responsible for a whole lot of lives....Kerry doesn't care about anyone but himself.  Ask any vet what they think about that sack of crap....

Step aside from your everyday problems, which are just as crucial as everyone else's, and consider that we do not live in a vacuum.

I probably didn't change your mind  :(
Title: RE: Foreign policy of the Heinz (as in John Kerry's wife) Companies
Post by: StPaulieGirl on Oct 22, 2004, 11:43:03 AM
I have to agree that Bush should be taking a stronger stance on our economic concerns.  The core economic base has been bled out of our country for generations, and we need a president who will stand up and say, ENOUGH.

You and I both know that it isn't that simple.  

The WMD's are in Syria.  Saddamn had 12 years to hide this stuff while the UN was buying him time.  What the lamestream media hasn't told you is that they mixed up regular missles, with ones that had biological warheads.  Unmarked.  We found out the hard way.  

Speaking of the UN, are you keeping up with the "oil for food scandal"?  Kofi Annan could put Bugsy Siegal to shame.  So could France, Germany, and Russia.  Screw them!  They helped Saddam liquidate an entire generation.  That's not even considering the mass graves that are still being dug up today.  Iraq is nothing but one big graveyard.  Do we let people like that kill, torture, and maim our fellow  brothers and sisters?

Losing someone is unthinkable, especially when that person is serving overseas.  I'm sorry that you've lost family and friends in this war.  Last year, I saw a picture that was posted, and it was of a children's prison that had been liberated.  My little one saw it, and stated that she wanted to join the Army when she grew up.  Btw, she's doing great.  Pretty soon she can use a 3 legged cane :)  She knows instinctively that we need to protect those that need protection.  If we don't do it now, we will be letting ourselves in for another 9/11.  No lie.  They're out to destroy Western Civilization.  I have no worries whatsoever about her joining the military.  Only God knows the hour and the day.  She could get nailed at the neighborhood liquor store, buying an ice cream bar.