Messages

Once again, thanks for the straight dope.

I have emailed my attorney instructing to seek waiver on mediation forthwith.

Also I have enquired about the use of all my evidence. I think I need to tread carefully there. I did promise Mom in law I would never let wife see her affidavit & I sure don't want to upset her.

I think your approach with deposition is the right way to go & will discuss with my att'y.

Your final statement is terrifiying for me. Wife missed the visit again today (presumably thinking she has restraining order). How long is too long before they don't want to mess ? It's already been 8 months - it took the 1st 3 months to find out where she was & get any visits. I know my 1st att'y caused this by not being aggressive enough at the start (I didn't know any better & picked at random from yellow pages).

Mt Att'y deposed her employer in Orlando & she definitely already has unstabel employment record there. (before that she never really worked or paid taxes)

Also she's living in 500sq ft apartment & has had daughter in & out of several day care facilities & sitters while she works. She never provides me with any of their details except as when ordered by the court.

Again thank you for this advice. It is invaluable & I am far, far better informed to ask my attorney the right questions.

Thanks, Steve

Thank you so much. That seems like excellent sensible advice & I will discuss exactly that course with my attorney.

I do not know what the Police report from Dec 18th says exactly yet as I don't have a copy. It is in Orlando, so I had to write them last week to obtain. Itt could take couple of weeks, so if necessary I will drive up to Orlando to obtain a copy well ahead of the hearing on 17th.

DCF called this afternoon to try to schedule an appointment, so I imagine I will learn a lot more about her new injunction tomorrow.

As it happens I DO already have a sworn & notarized Affidavit from my Mom & father in law. This is 5 pages in length & really states how they witnessed my wife abusing me (financially & mentally), how she planned & plotted to leave me and told her Mom I would not see daughter again. Explains how my wife has long history of "using and abusing people" & I am last in long line. Says wife is unstable & I need to be with daughter.

This affidavit was produced a few months ago for my Immigration Attorney - I am English & wife left just before green card came, meaning I had to reapply with a special application, hence the need for affidavits.

I have not given this affidavit to my family\custody attorney to use yet (but she is aware of it) - I wouldn't want to explicity use it in custody case without Mom in laws permission since wife will surely see it at some point. Also it is addressed to the US INS so I'm not sure if it would even be admissable here.

From the INS evidence I also have a Social Worker report stating how I was abused.

I also have a letter from my Clinical Psycologist who states he has met with me and Mom in law, seperately, on multiple occasions - states he has never met with wife but is aware from grandmom & me of promiscuity throughout her life, suicide attempts, drug abuse & inpatient treatment for same. He states the extensive behavior patterns are indicative of Borderline Personality Disorder, he thinks it likely and necessary I would get custody & hence important for me to remain in US for sake of daughter. This letter is from last August.

My Att'y knows this Psycologist (he referred me to her). He has given evidence in custody cases in past (why mom in law thought I should see him). My Att'y told me to continue seeing him, but she is careful to have no direct contact with him herself yet.

Of course I have written long detailed affidavits myself as well. Covering 8 years detailing exact times, dates etc etc.

I definitely think I should get even more aggressive, & wonder if, how & when is best to use any of this evidence. For me the sooner I can bring this nightmare to some sort of acceptable conclusion the better.

If mom in law says ok, I will pass Affidavit to my Att'y to use it.

1) How much if any of this evidence should I give to the DCF when they come visit this week? I was thinking of running to Kinko's & preparing a folder covering everything. But I have a slight concern that since some of it is addressed to INS it might somehow be used against me.

2) If I give mom in laws affidavit to DCF is it likely wife will get to see it - effectively revealing my Ace too soon?

3) Wife is certainly delaying mediation, & I am quite certain she is not prepared to give me any access, or give an inch in mediation. But if I seek a waiver what is the risk court may see it as me who is escalating & estranging?

Thanks so much for your advice, I will certainly be taking this up with my attorney first thing.

Thanks again - this website is a real godsend!!

Firstly, thank you very much for your feedback it is very helpful & I will discuss Polygraph idea with my att'y & use it when necessary.

I am telling the whole truth, and can possibly bring along my parents (& perhaps in laws) as witnesses (depending on what exactly I learn she is alleging in the new dmoestic violence injunction).

Our dissolution of marriage and custody dispute in Palm Beach Co. is still Pending. There are no final orders.

Wife got a new att'y & re-drafted her Petition for Marriage dissolution in September. Saying I had touched my daughter improperly, and that I had behaved violently toward her during our marriage & she was afraid for her life.

My Attorney immediately deposed her after she signed this new petition in September. When she discussed each violence allegation specifically she admitted the main 2 incidents she alleges were more than 3 years ago. They are not true (in fact she attacked me in an argument & I had to restrain her - I NEVER hit her), they were in my home in England, wife admitted she never called police or anything & stayed in my home & my bed for weeks afterward.

When discussing allegations about my daughter under deposition the main one she said was I "cupped" her vagina with my hand, when pressed she admitted that daughter was wearing a diaper and also fully clothed - she was 18 months old at the time & I picked her up in this fashion. Wife still firmly believe this is "inappropriate".

There is an "Agreed Amended Order Granting Custody Evaluations, Psychological Evaluations of the Parties, & Temporary right regarding the minor child" made last August 2nd. This laid out temporary custody with wife (although at the time we did not know where she was living) & specified visitation for me every Sunday from 3-6pm with a neutral supervisor arranged by wife, at an agreed location in Palm Beach Co.

Since then wife missed many visits & established very poor record not showing up for so many visits.

I was unhappy that my then att'y had agreed to supervised visitation without my consent, even though he insisted it was "without prejudice" and it was only wife wife would agree to let me see daughter.

I sought advice & retained a new att'y in August, right after this. New att'y is much better, we communicate well by email & she always checks my consent before proceeding with course - she is very good but expensive & I fear I won't be able to afford her for much longer.

On August 23rd my new att'y obtained "Order on Husbands Motion to Compel Wife to Disclose Whereabouts of Child" Odering her to reveal address, day care etc etc. She resisted & was in contempt, but after a week she complied & her att'y delivered details - this was when we learned she had moved to Orlando (although I did suspect beforehand).

This Order was the first and only time to date that anything has been argued in front of Judge in this case - my attorney pointed out to Judge that this was not a DV case & he granted the Order.

Since then we have been doing discovery.

My wife was deposed first in September, my att'y wanted a continuation & wife postponed & missed several appointments after that. Fianlly she showed up & we did 2nd part of her deposition in Sept.

My new attorney Filed "Respondent\Husband's Verfied Motion For Temporary Relief" also last August, seeking to get wife to return daughter to this jurisdiction & to my care. Also stating wifes actions expelling me from childs life - & so child can enjoy love of 2 parents again granting Petitioner (wife) reasonable rights of visitation as long as the child is not improperly removed from this jurisdiction again". So far nothing seems to have come from this motion.

Both attorneys have told me not to give my wife any money at all yet. In her 1st petition she asked for alimony & CS. But since then neither of her attorneys has asked me for this. My att'y says this is because she has no case until she moves back to Palm Beach Co. I did learn that both of her att'ys tried to persuade her to move back here, but she refused & it was this conflict that led her to dismiss her 1st att'y.

Standard Interrogatories were served & 3 months later wife is not in full compliance.
Also my att'y filed a "Respondents Notice of Serving Expert Witness Interrogatories" early in October, requiring wife to reveal details of any Experts or Witnesses she has retained in whatever fashion for this case. Wife has not responded. Under deposition in December wife admitted she has no evidence & has no expert testimoney at all in support of her allegations.

I finally felt we were making more progress when mediation was set for Jan 17th next week, but now my wifes Orlando stunt means she gets to delay it again. It is my understanding that we can't begin Social Investigation until we have attempted mediation.

Last October during the supervised visitations, it seemed my daughter enjoyed them too much - she did not want to leave & when it was time to go she avoided (she is only 2) and said "take me home Dada" wife got very mad & accsued me of brainwahing daughter.

Since then every week she made & excuse & said supervisor wasn't available for the visit, or weather was bad etc, and found reason to say "she would supervise herself" so stupidly I went along with 5 such visits with wife & daughter, the tradeoff for me was I got to spend longer with my daughter on Sunday & we would go to dinner afterward (I paid). On these visits wife would try to persuade me how nice Orlando is & to consider moving there, I generally ignored her & would only discuss my daughter & basically focused on daughter whole time.

This led to Epcot visit on Dec 18th. Wife called & said supervisor not available but she had free tickets for Epcot would I consider coming there for visit. When we got to gate (she was hour late) she only had 1 free ticket & I had to pay $57 for my ticket I didn't bother arguing. But aftre 2 hours inside wife took daughter from me & gave me a dirty look - Stupidly I snapped at her and called her "an evil bitch" she immediatly declared visit over & called several people then police. I just went off & played with daughter wehn police showeed up. No charges, police were very nice but I just felt very stupid & embarrased.

I seems next day (Dec 19th) wife tried to obtain "Injuntion for Protection Against Domestic Violence" in Orlando court, claiming I had threatened her during Orlando visit, I absolutely did not. I learned about this on Dec 27th when sherrif delivered copy to my home - it was denied.

Since Epcot incident, we had 1 more visit at mother in laws home on Christmas day. Wife tried to say I couldn't visit on Christmas, but she was staying with her Mom & her Mom called me & asked me to come over with my parents (wife didn't know about this), so we showed up & generally had a lovely visit with daughter & both sets of grandparents on Christmas day - wife stayed in back bedroom out of the way.

Now it seems wife has gone back to Orlando court & on Jan 3rd somehow managed to get temp injunction this time - for what exactly is unclear since I have not been served yet and the only time I have seen wife since Epcot all grandparents were present at all times ( and all are very supportive of me).

1) There is supposedly a hearing for this in Orlando on 17th. I will be very worried about going into court without an att'y present, but if my att'y has to go to Orlando to represent me it will be hugely expensive & likely use up a lot of what I have just borrowed to give her on retainer. I will gladly go into court & suggest a Polygraph myself - but is it essential to have an att'y present?

2) Should I offer to take the Polygraph in Court at the hearing, or when the DCF come to talk to me, or both? (I did offer to take lie detector last March when wife 1st petitoned for divorce & made allegations. DCF rejected her allegations & no further investigation was done then)

3) My wifes Mom, who is very supportive of me for daughters sake, is now getting exasperated & saying perhaps now she should "intervene" formally & go on record testifying about wifes behavior (before wife left, she was plotting & told her mom what she planned to do saying I would not see my daughter again - her mom begged her to reconsider). I think this will be great, but would want to use her testimony when it will be most effective (i.e talking to Custody Evaluators?), just how effective would this be & when would be the best time for her to go on record? especially since it will be at considerable emotional cost to my mom in law.

Thanks so much for your feedback, I really appreciate the advice.

Dear Socrateaser, I'm new to this site & reposting these questions here from another forum....

My story is my wife left our home in Palm Beach Co. FL last March, at first it was just a 2 week vacation (which I paid for) to visit her grandmother and she took our then 21 month old daughter with her (in the new car I had just bought her). She never returned. On the day I expected her home she called & said "I'm not coming home I'm divorcing you get a lawyer", this was total shock to me & she woudln't say when I could see my daughter.

The she filed divorce petition & demanded a paternity test & made unclear allegations that I had behaved improperly with our daughter & also violently toward her. (I have loving relationship with daughter & have never hit my wife in 8 years). I had no idea where she was.

Dept of Children & Families came to interview me at my house, I explained everything, & also a lot about my wifes past & our relationship - she is very unstable, drug addiction 15 years ago, multiple previous relationships, several suicide attempts, accused many previous boyfriends & husbands of rape \ abuse etc etc. She abandonded me once for a year & had affairs living with 2 differnt men in the interim contracting Herpes, then she came back to me under false pretenses & became pregnant with our daughter.

I am 36 years old, from a normal family, never used drugs or mental health or criminal history, graduate professional, always worked & did make high salary hence always supported wife & daughter & paid for everything. This was my first marriage.

Wife is 40 years old, long record, she has never worked. DCF & police officer present suggested when my lawyer responded I should seek custody eval & pyschological evaluation of wife. Seemed like good advice. Daughter was examined, there was no evidence of any abuse. Much later I learned DCF rejected wifes allegations.

I was fortunate to have the support of my wifes Mom & Stepfather. We lived with them for a short while when I 1st moved to this country (I'm English) & they are close to us. Her Mom new she was lying & was afraid as I am for my daughter since she knows well how unstable wife is, she told DCF wife was lying & desperately tried to get them help find my daughter.

My 1st lawyer issued my response seeking custody & Psych Evaluation. I did not see my daughter for 4 months & none of us (her mom either) knew their whereabouts. Eventually attorneys agreed to custody & psych evaluations & there was an agreed Order. In the same order they agreed temporary custody with my wife & I would have "supervised" visitation one day per week - it was the only way wife would consent to let me see my daughter. I did not agree to supervised visitation my then attorney did that without my consent.

My Paternity was confirmed in July. I hated having to do it, but att'y said to go ahead.

The first visit took place at wifes mothers with wifes mom & her present. She soon changed that, claiming her mom was an unsuitable supervisor, & then missed 5 out of 8 possible visits in the following months.

I started seeing a counsellor at suggestion of Mom in Law when wife left. Same counsellor (forensic Psychology) has seen Mom in law as a patient for several years (lot of stress due to wifes behavior), he thought much of my wifes behavior as described by me & her Mom indicated Borderline Personility Disorder BPD, I looked it up & her parents & I concur this describes her exactly - wifes brother (an MD) also thinks she has BPD, but as yet she is undiagnosed. (I've since learned & realized I was emotionlly abused throughout our relationship)

I was frustrated with my attorney & with assistance of counsellor found a new attorny who seemed far more familiar with fathers rights etc. I retained new attorney (at huge expense) & straight away she obtained court order getting wife to declare wherabouts & day care, dr's details for daughter etc. Wife resisted claiming she thought I would kill her. Neverhteless she was eventually forced to comply. It seemed she had moved to Orlando about 180 miles from our home in Palm Beach county. A week later wife asked me to go to Orlando for the visit & tried to persude me to buy a home there.

Later in deposition we found she thought she had a 6 figure job in Orlando in real estate via old boyfriend. Job never happend she eventually started work part time at realtors but has been living off inheritence money from her grandparents.

Eventually we got her into deposition, att'y wanted to do 2 sessions & we covered a lot of ground she admitted to everyhting re: her past & made outrageous claims against me then completely contradicted herself minutes later. She did not want to come to deposition & missed 2 appointments. As things are moving against her she tries harder to delay more. My attorney has ordered a transcript of one of the deposition sessions to give to social investigators.

We still have not had mediation, finally it was recently scheduled for Jan 17th. I have been anxious to get on with it, I don't expect wife to agree to give me any access to daughter, but at least when that is attempted we can begin Social Investigation.

This week I just learned that wife has had an "Order for Protection Against Domestic Violence" granted to her in Orlando (Osceola County)court. Our divorce & custody is in Palm Beach County Court. I don't know all details yet but apparently she is claiming I threatened her during a visit with daughter & Epcot Center in Dec. (I was stupid enough to let her persuade me to go there with her for one of my weekend visits, she said the usual supervisor was unavailable - but I'm not dumb enough to threaten her, however I did get very frustrated & when I snipped at her she said visit was over & called police - no charges but very embarrasing )

She attempted to get an "Injunction for Protection Against Domestic Violence" first attempted in December immediately after this Epcot incident - her 1st petition for this was denied saying "petitioner directed to address visitation issues in Palm Beach County Court". I have not been to Orlando since & there can be absolutely no evidence other than my wifes hearsay.

But now I just learned that she tried again & her Order was granted on Jan 3rd - I have not been served with details yet, but learned there should be hearing on 17th in Orlando. I think she is asking that court to give her injunction seeking temp custody of our daughter, no contact at all for me, & requiring me to go to domestic violence center. DCF contacted me this week, Orlando have appointed a Case Manager & DCF want to come & interview me again. I have emailed my att'y with all details.

1)  My first reaction is how can she do this in another court while this whole case is going on in PBC? We're pretty sure her att'y in Palm Beach County didn't advise her on this course, she is probably getting help from a counsellor of sorts - she's good at that, very persuasive & manipulative.

Now this hearing in Orlando has given her another reason to delay & cancel mediation again. I'm getting very worried & frustrated, I was starting to think I had a good case with her poor record, cutting off access, & her family supporting me. But now I'm running out of money as well & we haven't even had mediation yet. I've paid $12000 to Attorney already, she is good but now she wants another $5k & I know evaulations will be expensive.

2) I'm very worried my wifes delays & now these attempts to do things in other courts will cause me to run out of money completely before we even have mediation & then if I can't afford to pay for proper evaluations I may lose by default. What should I worry about most & treat with highest priority?

You are absolutely right.

I already found this resource on BPD Central website //www.bpdcentral.com  I read it & gave it to in laws as well - we all find it invaluable for dealing with my ex.

Another crucial resource from same website is SPLITTING written by a lawyer, gives practical advice for anyone facing high conflict divorce from Borderlines\Narcissists.

This was particularly helpful for me, practically everything it says she will do has come true.


Thanks

Thanks so much. I really appreciate that.

I've been reading many of the other posts on this forum as well - it's so sad that this kind of thing is so common, yet it is very encouraging for me to know I'm not alone.

God bless. Steve

He sure did. Thanks so much.

I wrote to my attorney & she got straight back tonight - following his advice, or close to.

This resource is so invaluable - even just to make sure I ask my attorney efficient sensible, smart questions!  What a godsend.

Thanks again, Steve

Thanks Sly. That is encouraging & you are certainly right.

I felt so stupid after going along with those visits with her in December, I really do have a much better measure of her now, and after all she's put me through I really should have known better. Mom in law even warned me to be careful, she was up to something! I just wanted to see daughter - doh!

Meanwhile you are right - this website is invaluable, a real godsend. I feel more confident already since yesterday. Socrateaser has given me some great advice over on his forum on these same questions.

Thanks for the encouragement, it sure does seem bleak and out of control sometimes, especially with her curve balls and delays, but you can bet I will use very dime I have and continue to fight this as long as there is breath left in my body!

Take care, Steve

Hi, I'm new to this forum, when I've read others here I thought I'd write in to see if If anyone has any advice.

My story is my wife left our home in FL last March, at first it was just a 2 week vacation (which I paid for) to visit her grandmother and she took our then 21 month old daughter with her (in the new car I had just bought her). She never returned, on the day I expected her home she called & said "I'm not coming home I'm divorcing you get a lawyer", this was total shock to me & she woudln't say when I could see my daughter.

The she filed divorce petition & demanded a paternity test & made unclear allegations that I had behaved improperly with our daughter & also violently toward her. (I have loving relationship with daughter & have never hit my wife in 8 years). I had no idea where she was.

Dept of Children & Families came to interview me at my house, I explained everything, & also a lot about my wifes past & our relationship - she is very unstable, drug addiction 15 years ago, multiple previous relationships, several suicide attempts, accused many previous boyfriends & husbands of rape \ abuse etc etc. She abandonded me once for a year & had affairs living with 2 differnt men in the interim contracting Herpes, then she came back to me under false pretenses & became pregnant with our daughter. Wife is 40 years old, long record, she has never worked. DFC & police officer present suggested when my lawyer responded I should seek custody eval & pyschological evaluation of wife. Seemed like good advice. Daughter was examined, there was no evidence of any abuse. Much later I learned DCF rejected wifes allegations.

I was fortunate to have the support of my wifes Mom & Stepfather. We lived with them for a short while when I 1st moved to this country (I'm English) & they are close to us. Her Mom new she was lying & was afraid as I am for my daughter since she knows well how unstable wife is, she told DCF wife was lying & desperately tried to get them help find my daughter.

My 1st lawyer issued my response seeking custody & Psych Evaluation. I did not see my daughter for 4 months & none of us (her mom either) knew their whereabouts. Eventually attorneys agreed to custody & psych evaluations & there was an agreed Order. In the same order they agreed temporary custody with my wife & I would have "supervised" visitation one day per week - it was the only way wife would consent to let me see my daughter. I did not agree to supervised visitation my then attorney did that without my consent.

My Paternity was confirmed in July. I hated having to do it, but att'y said to go ahead.

The first visit took place at wifes mothers with wifes mom & her present. She soon changed that, claiming her mom was an unsuitable supervisor, & then missed 5 out of 8 possible visits in the following months.

I started seeing a counsellor at suggestion of Mom in Law when wife left. Same counsellor (forensic Psychology) has seen Mom in law as a patient for several years (lot of stress due to wifes behavior), he thought much of my wifes behavior as described by me & her Mom indicated Borderline Personility Disorder BPD, I looked it up & her parents & I concur this describes her exactly - wifes brother (an MD) also thinks she has BPD, but as yet she is undiagnosed. (I've since learned & realized I was emotionlly abused throughout our relationship)

I was frustrated with my attorney & with assistance of counsellor found a new attorny who seemed far more familiar with fathers rights etc. I retained new attorney (at huge expense) & straight away she obtained court order getting wife to declare wherabouts & day care, dr's details for daughter etc. Wife resisted claiming she thought I would kill her. Neverhteless she was eventually forced to comply. It seemed she had moved to Orlando about 180 miles from our home in Palm Beach county, later in deposition we found she thought she had a 6 figure job there in real estate via old boyfriend. Job never happend she eventually started work part time at realtors but has been living off inheritence money from her grandparents.

Eventually we got her into deposition, att'y wanted to do 2 sesssions & we covered a lot of ground she admitted to everyhting re: her past & made outrageous claims against me then completely contradicted herself minutes later.  She did not want to come to deposition & missed 2 appointments. As things are moving against her she tries harder to delay more.

We still have not had mediation, finally it was recently scheduled for Jan 17th. I have been anxious to get on with it, I don't expect wife to agree to give me any access to daughter, but at least when that is attempted we can begin Social Investigation etc.

This week I just learned that wife has had an "Order for Protection Against Domestic Violence" granted to her in Orlando court. Our divorce & custody is in Palm Beach County Court. I don't know all details yet but apparently she is claiming I threatened her during a visit with daughter & Epcot Center in Dec. (I was stupied enough to let her persuade me to go there with her for one of my weekend visits there - but I'm not dumb enough to threaten her, however I did get very frustrated & when I snipped at her she said visit was over & called police - no charges but very embarrasing ) She attempted to get an injunction 1st in December immediately after this incident - her 1st petition for this was denied saying "petitioner directed to address visitation issues in Palm Beach County Court". I have not been to Orlando since & there can be absolutely no evidence other than my wifes hearsay. But now I just learned that she tried again & her Order was granted on Jan 3rd - I have not been served with details yet, but learned there should be hearing on 17th in Orlando. DCF contacted me this week, Orlando have appointed a Case Manager & DCF want to come & interview me again. I have emailed my att'y with all details.

My first reaction is how can she do this in another court while this whole case is going on in PBC? I'm pretty sure her att'y in Palm Beach County didn't advise her on this course, she is probably getting help from a counsellor of sorts - she's good at that, very persuasive & manipulative.

Now this hearing in Orlando has given her another reason to delay & cancel mediation again. I'm getting very worried & frustrated, I was starting to think I had a good case with her poor record, cutting off access, & her family supporting me. But now I'm running out of money as well & we haven't even had mediation yet. I've paid $12000 to Attorney already, she is good but now she wants another $5k & I know evaulations will be expensive.

I'm very worried my wifes delays & now these attmepts to do things in other courts will cause me to run out of money completely before we even have mediation & then if we can't afford to pay for proper evaluations I may lose by default.

Anyone have any advice?