Messages

quoted:
"I don't need her money at all. I now make close to 80,000 anually as a conductor and my wife works as a teacher making about 26000. So we're fine off. BUT my daughter still has the right to be supported by her mother. I just hate it that my daughter thinks (even when I made NOTHING at wal-mart) that I "should" pay, but her mom not. They are in a bad place in their life at their own accord. I wouldn't go after support now, but am mad that if and WHEN i was in the same position of having no money they glued by butt to the wall. Although, for them being greedy in the end did NOT get them what they wanted."

My children were and still are under the impression that they should be provided for by their father (me) and that their mother shouldn't have to send money to me to take care of their needs.  Note I said NEEDS, not WANTS.

The X filed Chapter 7 bankruptcy and included those things that she was Court Ordered to pay for through the Domestic Relations Orders, testified that there were no domestic relations orders and is now forcing me to protect my interests.  Just imagine if you will that you were in reciept of $500/week for child support.  That's 5 hundred dollars per week, not month or year, and you can't see your way clear to pay for your kids books fees at school....  But would rather get your nails done, buy clothes at Pricillas or Victorias Secret, drink yourself stupid and date your married boss.

Now that I have custody of my kids, I receive nothing and I don't really care, but what I really want is my $11k that she obsconded through dilatory tactics while I was paying her to take care of kids that were in my care/custody/control.

And, you're right, the kids still feel like their mom shouldn't have to pay a penny in support and that I should provide for everything.  From what I can gather from my kids, even when she was getting the $500/week, they didn't know that they were receiving anything from me.  They had to endure being on food stamps, on the free lunch program etc., because she wouldn't spend a penny on them.

Just makes you sad to think about how some parents feel THEY are entitled to the support as if it was allimony.

I wish you well in your efforts to provide for your children, they will after all appreciate the things that you do for them in the end regardless of whether or not the X kicks a buck in or not.

And the worst part of all this is that one of my dear friend was murdered (stabbed to death) when he testified concerning fraud in another persons bankruptcy proceedings.  His murderer is still walking free, but the local police KNOW who did it - they just don't have sufficient evidence to procecute yet.

I doubt strongly that my X has sufficient funds to get someone to OFF me, but the thought has occurred to my wife and I that she's just crazy enough to promise someone monies to have the deed done.

I will continue to fight for what is legally and rightfully mine, there should be NO rewards for people who file for bankruptcy protection on child support.  It's just another way for my X to continue to mess with me and force me to spend money that I don't have to keep her honest.

It's very frustrating.

I will let everyone know how it goes.

They have objected to my motion and there is now a trial date set.  Should be interesting.  I did file this motion on my own and will more than likely just go pro-se as the worst outcome is that my motion to obtain relief from the stay will be denied and I will have to wait until the final discharge to see if they have discharged child support.  Should be interesting.

So, I plan to write the dirty little secrets bag of tricks that some custodial parents do.

1) Don't pay what you are court ordered to pay, it will probably cost the non-custodial parent more money to hire an attorney to fight for it than it's worth particularly when they are little bills but many of them.

2) if you didn't pay for the doctors bills, dentist, ortho, anything that is "in the nature of child support" as a custodial parent, you can count on the fact that the individual creditors will sue you (the NCP) in small claims court and win.  Get ready for the garnishment because it will happen, they will direct you back to the Family court to address the non-payment issue.

3) if the other parent get's screwed in small claims court, file for chapter 7 protection on all the debts, chances are they'll just be released from the debts and you'll have to pay them unless you also file.

4) delay, delay, delay... don't worry about getting into court or that dilatory tactics aren't rewarded (by the letter of the law), you'll never have to pay what was removed from Peter to pay Paul as they'll feel sorry for you because they're sure that you used the money on the kids....

I am not an attorney and in no way should you construe this as advice.

;-)

I am not an attorney, I can only share my personal experiences with you and share what has worked and what has not.

If you failed to file timely your motion to terminate or modify child support at the time that a change occurred, the court is under no obligation to or should they go back before the date of your filing a motion to correct a situation.  eg., if you know that your son/daughter has become married, joined the military, has turned 21, these are things that by action of the law emancipate a child.  You may have a chance of going back to these dates if you can prove it (marriage certificate etc.)  If however, you have an agreed entry which was rendered as an order of the court where you both agree that when junior turns 18 or graduates from high school that the child is at that time emancipated, you may be able to argue that that order should dictate the event occurred on X date.  You might be able to petition the court to have child support cease upon that event and ask the court to rule that this is the date at which junior was emancipated, but you must file a motion with the court to terminate child support.

In short, when you file a motion with the court which has a bearing on child support (emancipation by operation of the law like a marriage, or through some other event), the clock stops at the time that you file your motion.  You CANNOT ask the court to go further back than your motion and expect the court to rule in your favor.  You can ask that the calculation of the NEGATIVE ARREARAGE goes back to the date of filing and then ask the court to rule on a proposed arrearage amount.

What I have found is that MOST of the time, if you're male and the person who's receiving CS is female, that the courts will do everything in their power to NOT force the Custodial parent to repay it.  If you are persistent and timely in your filings - you may have a chance but don't count on it being easy.  My X used dilatory tactics (Santa Clause died, her attorney had a political function that "just came up", her expert witnesses wouldn't be available due to an emergency.. in fact 5 different continuances) which caused me to continue paying child support to the tune of $69,000 over what would be ordered and 2.5 years transpired before I got to court, all the time of course paying huge dollars to an attorney to have him exchange letters and try to get on the courts calendar.  Because I filed my motion to emancipate, the clock stopped at this point, however, during my daughters testimony she indicated that she "temporarily moved back in" with her mother on X date.  The court, in HER effort to not make mom pay back $69k, ruled that the date of emancipation would be the date that she re-moved out of my X's home just six months before our court date.  Thus the arrearage calculated would only be $8k (even calculated it incorrectly).  Then the court made it a judgement which makes it impossible to ask for an IWO for it.

I then hired a collection attorney to get my $8k, he succeeded in getting a Garnishment order, however, her employer never got it setup as she filed Chapter 7 bankruptcy and "mistakenly listed" the debt as a non-secured non-priority debt.

I still have collected $0 from my $69k overpayment.

Get it?

I still am persistently trying to get my money back, but it's getting to the point where it's getting rediculous.

If I were in her position, I'd already be one of Indiana's most wanted deadbeat dad's and would be wearing an orange jumper - perhaps picking up trash along the highway or doing my time with the child molesters and drunks.

The title 4d folks aren't any help either, if you have dangling genitalia you're SOL...

Latest that I have learned is that the only way that I can intervene is to file "motion for relief of stay" which should require the Trustee and Judge to examine the completeness and correctness of the filing.  By alerting them in this forum, they either force the filer to amend their filing, or throw the whole thing out if they refuse.  In either case, it's rediculous that I must expend my $1500 to correct her $599 filing.  Will pass more along as I learn it.

Unfortunately, you cannot ask for attorney's fees in Bankruptcy Court.  I am between a rock and a hard place.  I do know that she has NO legs to stand on, that she has lied to her attorney and the Trustee's under oath.

I plan to file a "motion for relief from stay" in this matter, it's a $150 filing fee.  I will probably have to do my research tonight and see if I can get a copy of someone elses pleadings so that I present it in proper form so that it's not rejected because I didn't caption it or indent properly.

That should force the hand of her attorney to either 1) suborn perjury (which should be fun), or 2) admit that I have a valid order from the DR (domestic relations court) showing that there is an arrearage derived from CS (and subsequent judgment), or 3) make them withdraw their entire pleading or amend and refile.

Should be fun, but I dread it.

I agree with your assessment, however it's going to cost me between $1200-$1500 to get an attorney to represent me as I have done as you suggested and they simply don't care.

So, at this point, I have to examine whether or not $1200-$1500 is appropriate to recover $11000 dollars.  In my assessment is that it is worth my time, but it frustrates me that I must continually have to chase after what's rightfully mine.  Pisses me off actually.

The Trustee's are doing nothing.  They continually tell me to get an attorney to represent my interests.  I know that I can stop the clock by filing a "motion for relief from stay" which will force her attorney to come to court and represent her interests where I would then have an opportunity to show the orders showing that it is child support.

I am seriously considering having an attorney do this and ask for fees if they will permit fees.

If I had time, I could write a book on all the crafty (and crappy) things my x has tried to pull....

The latest is that she has filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy protection in the Federal Court system where all bankruptcies are heard.  She included a judgement for child support in her filings but didn't disclose that it was indeed child support.  Under the bankruptcy laws, you are not to be "forgiven" or "relieved" of your obligations in a Domestic Order (CS).  I have spoken with the Trustee's who handle these types of matters and they have suggested that I write a letter to her Attorney with evidence that shows the previous orders of the Court that contradict her claims that this is just a normal judgement of the Courts.

I have written my letter, provided information to her Attorney that refutes her claims that this is anything other than CS.  She testified under oath that this is NOT CS.  Penalties for perjury in Federal bankruptcy court, when it's of a material nature (not disclosing assets as one should, artificially increasing the amount of a debt owed so as to make it a no-brainer in the assets to debts columns, or the nature of the debt) is $500,000 or 5 years in prison as a maximum penalty.

I don't necessarily want to see her punished, but want to encourage her attorney to either 1) amend the filing or 2) withdraw it entirely, in either event, the CS should show back up on the worksheet as a priority non-secured debt ....

Has anyone else had to deal with a crazy, got nothing to lose x-wife that's pulled this kind of stuff?  Any advise?

>According to the NC CS calculator you would have to pay
>$343.55/mth in CS.

I wish I could just pay 10% of my gross income.  Mine is more like 38%.


>That is based on the info where you said the CP makes $100,000
>and you make $30,000.
>
>Are you saying that the rest of your expenses are so great
>that you can't pay the $343.55?
>
>