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Hello.  I reside in NY state but my ex-wife and our children reside in IL right now.  We are going to court for contempt at the end of this month (my ex-wife has violated the court order regarding my visitation and communication with the children).

The Tape Recording Laws I found via this site state NY does not require the consent of all parties; however, IL does require all parties to consent to the taping.  

1) Is it legal or illegal for me to tape record a phone conversation (be it either from my home phone (land line) or my cell phone)?

2) Will it depend on who is making the call?  Does the NY law apply if I am the one making the call, but the IL laws apply if I am receiving a call from my ex-wife?

3) How admissable would the recordings be in court?  

Thank you.

Dear Socrateaser-

I wrote to you before about my ex-wife stating she is ending our "verbal agreement" that reduced my child support obligation from $250/wk to $200/wk.  You replied that you would want to see the actual wording from the documents.  I have provided that below.

ACTION FOR DIVORCE dated and signed by (ex's attorney) and (ex-wife) on May 15, 2006...

"To the above named Defendant
You are hereby summoned to serve a notice of appearance, on the Plaintiff's attorneys within 20 days after the service of this summons... and in case your failure to appear, JUDGEMENT WILL BE TAKEN AGAINST YOU BY DEFAULT FOR THE RELIEF DEMANDED IN THE NOTICE SET FORTH BELOW."

Under #8 in the Action For A Divorce is the relief sought-

"WHEREFORE, Plaintiff respectfully demands judgement as follows:

... 3. Modification of Defendant's support obligation from $250.00 per week down to $200.00 per week."

In the JUDGEMENT OF DIVORCE dated and signed by what appears to be (Justice of Supreme Court's name) on Aug 2, 2006 it states:

"The issues in this action having come on to be determined... the Defendant having been personally served on May 26, 2006 and the Defendant having failed to serve a notice of appearance or answer to the complaint, and the time in which to answer Plaintiff's complaint having expired, and Plaintiff having submitted her claim for divorce of the marriage... and the Court having made its Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law,

NOW, on motion of (ex's), attorney for Plaintiff, it is hereby ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED, that the Plaintiff is hereby granted a Judgement of Divorce against Defendant...

...and it is further ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED, THAT A COPY OF THIS JUDGEMENT SHALL BE FILED IN THE OFFICE OF THE CLERK OF THE FAMILY COURT OF ONONDAGA COUNTY, ACCORDING TO STATUTE, BY PLAINTIFF'S ATTORNEY."


My questions:

1) Am I correct in interpreting the documents to state that since I did not respond to the Action of Divorce, the Judgement of Divorce was granted in favor of my ex, with her getting her "relief demanded" by default.

2) I take this to mean that it is in writing, and is ORDERED by the court that I only have to pay $200/wk.

Please advise.  Thank you very much!

Dear Socrateaser,

My separation agreement states that I waived the calculated Child Support amount ($196/wk) and agreed to pay $250/wk (the extra $50 for child care expenses- even though my ex only worked 1 out of the 3 years we were separated); it was our agreement that I would only pay the $250 until she "got on her feet" and then would pay $200.

I paid 1/2 the cost of the divorce proceedings over 2 years ago, and it wasn't until this past May that my ex paid the lawyer her 1/2, and filed for divorce.  However, two months prior (March '06) my ex agreed to the reduction to $200/wk, as I was going out of work for surgery, and would be out a couple of months.  This was to be on a permanent basis.

When my ex filed for divorce I received an "Action for Divorce" from her attorney, and didn't think I needed to do anything as the divorce was not contested.  In the "Action for Divorce" there is a section titled "Relief Sought" and in it, besides requests such as my ex being allowed to take back her maiden name, etc. was a line item stating the Child Support was reduced to $200/wk.

I received our divorce papers once finalized, and the front states that since I did not respond to the Action for Divorce, the divorce has been granted to my ex, and the stipulations of the separation agreement are enforced.  I hadn't even noticed this section until I recd a letter from my ex last week stating she is "ending our verbal agreement to reduce the Child Support and the $250/wk is to resume as of this week."  

1) Since I did not respond to the Action for Divorce, and the divorce was granted to her, does that mean that the "relief sought" was also granted to her?  (meaning it was not a VERBAL agreement, but put in writing, and I only owe $200/wk)?

2) Or, because I did not respond, and the Divorce Decree states that the stipulations of the separation agreement are enforced, does that mean that she does NOT get the "relief sought" and I still owe $250/wk.

Thank you.

I am in the state of NY.  My kids were just allowed to relocate to Illinois, and while I haven't seen the actual court order from the judge yet, our attorney says that my visitation schedule is the same as what BM's other daughter's father agreed to.  We lost our case because Dad#2 dropped his case, decided not to fight his daughter's moving out of state, and now my visitation is being affected by Dad#2's choices, too.

Dad#2 agreed that, despite only getting visitation for 1 week at Christmas, 1 week for spring break and 8 weeks during the summer, during the week of Christmas he will give his daughter back to BM Christmas Eve through Christmas morning.  Now, BM moved 12 hours away and will only be in our town staying with relatives so the kids will be removed from their second homes to sleep at a relatives house for the night instead.  Our lawyer is sending a letter to the judge asking for our visitation to be changed, that I not be made to give up my kids on Christmas Eve for the night, but he is not optomistic.  It is unfair of the judge to penalize me because of Dad#2's choices, even though it affects children in the same household.

It has been suggested to me to make a complaint about this judge (he's actually a Court Attorney Referee because Family Court has too many "Parts") to the Bar Association, and/or to make an appeal.  It was also brought up, though, that by filing a complaint the judge may come to attention and rule in our favor in the future, or he may hold it against us.

1) Should I file an appeal with a higher court and, if so, which one- Supreme Court?  

2) Or do I file a complaint with the Bar Association?  How?

3) If the judge finds out about our complaint, if we make one, isn't it possible that all further actions in front of him will be ruled against us?(part of the court order states that NY state retains jurisdiction over IL)  Is it worth the risk?

4) If judges are elected officials, but this guy is a Court Attorney Referee, is he appointed to office, so that we'd be able, as the public, to not vote him into office again?

Thank you.

Need some opinions from dads here...

My fiance lost his kids in a court battle w/ his ex wife just 6 weeks ago- she moved out of state (almost 12 hours away) because her boyfriend requested a job transfer.  (Some of you may be familiar w/ the case, as I posted like crazy about it on here).  Anyway, we're getting married next June (we had to move up the wedding date because of BM giving us a hard time about the kids missing 2 days of school- kindergarten and 1st grade- to BE IN their dad's wedding w/ the original date.

I am having a hard time coming up w/ a wedding present idea, but thought of something today- season tickets for football.  There are only 6 games, and the tickets are almost $200 each (and I'd have to buy 2 of course!) so they're not something I can afford to do right now for his bday or xmas- it's a "big ticket" item (no pun intended) that is more appropriate, IMHO, for this type of gift.

FH has dreamed of buying season tickets & taking SS to the football games once he turned 5 or 6yo.  He wanted to buy them last year but I told him SS was too young- not haven't the faintest idea that it would be our last (football) season w/ the kids here.  Now, if I buy these season tickets, I know FH will love them, and we'll have a good time at the games- we go to sporting events all the time together.  I'm just worried that it will be a bittersweet gift, that FH may not enjoy himself as much as he could, and will be at the game thinking he should be there w/ SS and not me.  SS will be 6yo this next football season.  

How would you other dads feel?  Is football football?  Or would you rather not have that reminder?  

And if I shouldn't get the tickets, can you men give me some other wedding gift ideas?!  :)

I was just reading your postings about your relocation case, and since I'm going through the same thing right now, I feel your pain.  Your last update was on August 11th (today is the 22nd).  I wonder what's happened since then?  

In that last post you mentioned that the BM involved "might" make more money if she moves, and that the schools and environment are better where the kids currently live.  
From what I've learned so far in our case, BM has the burden of proof if she wants to move, to prove that the move is in the children's best interest, and the judge will consider the move if she's moving 1) because of a transfer for her job/promotion 2) husbands transfter/promotion 3) to be closer to family 4) greatly increase economic stablility.  Sounds like 3 strikes, she's out, in your case.  

While she may be moving closer to her family, the courts will not consider the "potential" for a better job/income as a valid enough reason, and if they are not married, he's not a factor (in our case, BM got engaged to the guy just after he took the transfer out of state, then ran off and married him last week-we go to trial next week).

Please update us, hope things are working out for the best for you & yours.

I've been posting about my current situation under the "Father's Issues" topic, but I have a different situation I'd like some advice on, and it doesn't fall under that category, although it is slightly related.

Quick background for those who haven't read the above referenced postings...
My fiance's ex wife (divorce JUST finalized last week) is trying to move the kids out of state, we go to trial in two weeks.  She got married this past weekend (was only engaged for 6 weeks, got engaged AFTER her boyfriend accepted a transfer that is the reason they're moving).

Here's a part no one knows yet- including anyone in my FH's family and his ex's family (except her mom)...
FH and ex really got married 1 yr. earlier than when they had their ceremony & reception that everyone attended.  Ex had a daughter from previous relationship (2 yo at the time) whose Medicaid was denied and since they'd gotten engaged the month prior, my FH suggested they go ahead and get married right away to put the kid on his insurance plan (he has the BEST & cheapest insurance in town).  So they did, but kept it secret.  I didn't even find out until I noticed it on their separation papers and confronted FH about it- BIG blow out at the time...

Anyway, while I respect him for doing that for the kid, I hated the fact that they kept it secret, but on the other hand it was the ex's mom's choice as she paid for their wedding.  

Now, FH and I are paying for our entire wedding ourselves, no help from anyone.  We've bought my dress, paid for his tux rental (to get a promo of BOGO free cruise tix), and bought the favors.  One bridesmaid has paid for her dress.  All the other plans have been made but nothing else has been paid for yet.  

So here's the deal...now that the ex is remarried, FH is taking her off of his insurance policy (he would've kept her on, per an agreement they'd made before, as it only costs him an extra $1/wk for family coverage).  He pays $84/month for FULL family cov (health, dental & vision) and I'm paying $136/month just for single health & dental.  When we get married we'll save not only the $136 month (cuz it won't be a change in premium to take the ex off and put me on) but we'll save in prescriptions- I'm on a couple of monthly maintenance drugs and FH's plan has cheaper co-pays than my plan.  

If we go to city hall and get married as a technicality only, would it be wrong not to tell anyone?  And would it be wrong to still have our wedding & reception next year?  

The ex rushed getting married this time, hoping it will help with the relocation case.  I don't want anyone thinking we're doing the same thing (in terms of rushing) just because she did, and if we get married now it won't affect our case.  I hate that if we do this it will be the same as what she did (in terms of getting married one year early).  As a woman I want it to be "my own."  And it was hard enough to deal with when we realized she got the same engagement ring I did- I don't want to turn around and use the same sequence of events for my vows...do I?

I asked a few people their opinion- one guy in the office (who was asking this morning how things are going w/ the case) said he can definitely see our point cuz our insurance rates are crazy.  My twin sister is completely against the idea- she said not only am I the youngest in our family and the last to get married, but (and she says she doesn't mean to sound selfish here) but she doesn't think it's fair that she should have to pay for her dress (matron of honor), her daughter's dress (flower girl), and her husband's tux (groomsman) if we're already going to be married!  She says since we already have our wedding attire, why don't we just wear that now to get married if we want and we can all go to dinner, because they want to be there the first time I say my vows- then we can have the "party" for our anniversary or something like that.  (This is what I did for them- they had a quick JP wedding cuz she got pregnant quicker than planned, so I threw them a surprise reception on their 1st anniversary).  

What do you think?  I welcome any outside comments, suggestions, opinions, from objective points of view.  
THANK YOU!

Our lawyer got a copy of the order that BM's lawyer is submitting to the judge, and if the judge signs off on it, it becomes the court order- the final ruling on our relocation case.  It states that during our Christmas visitation we have to give the kids back to BM Christmas Eve so they spend the night & Christmas morning w/ her!  Just because that's what she got her older daughter's father to agree to, they're trying to make us take the same deal!  So we're going to get screwed by this guy again!  We lost our case because because he didn't have the ba$$s to fight for his daughter, to stand up to BM, and now we're going to lose the holiday of our actual holiday break because of him, too!  I could kick him in those ba$$s he doesn't have!  UGGGGHH!  

I am so mad about all of this!  I keep telling myself to let it go, that they're my fiance's kids, that if he's not pissed (but he is, he just accepts things and doesn't fight it, just like a$$ face Dad#2) then I should just sit back and enjoy the time w/ the kids when they are here.  But I can't.  I miss them so much, and I see how withdrawn their dad is becoming, and how much their grandfather is hurting with them gone.  I see their empty bedrooms and think of all the hours in the days each week that we have free now because they're not here for us to do stuff with them, and it make me so mad, and sad, and hurt.  I can't let go of that.  I can't just be calm and wait for our next visit and not be pissed at BM and want to get back at her in every little way possible, for doing this to us.  Just something as little as her opening the ecard I sent SS for his 1st day of kindergarten (subject- "To (SS) from Dad") and she opened it before he even got home from school, makes me want to drive the 12 hours to her house and rip her throat out!

...on the NY State Message Forum and only recd 1 response, which recommended posting on other forums.  "Shorte" has sole custody and wanted to move out of state, didn't know if that was possible.  

My fiance's ex-wife is trying to move his kid's out of NY and we're trying to stop her.  I would like to know what, if any, feedback "Shorte" got from anyone on any of the other forums.  

This is my first time posting, only my second visit to the site and there are so many posts and I can't possibly go through them all to check.  So if anyone has any info. on the subject or remembers this user and the outcome, please respond.  

Thanks!

Judge ruled that the kids shouldn't be separated and are already used to living w/ mom and "visiting" dad.  The other dad involved who started fighting but dropped his case wouldn't honestly admit that BM said she would stay here if she lost our case- and no one ever asked BM if she would stay, so we couldn't prove that the kids wouldn't be separated if the judge ruled in our favor.  

BM was planning on leaving the morning after the ruling, but the Law Guardian (who ended up still recommending the relocation be allowed but tried to get us more visitation than the judge gave us) talked to BM & her lawyer and got us an extra day.  The kids left at midnight on Thursday.

Per the court order we get:

1wk at Christmas (but we heard BM is to get them back for Christmas Eve - Christmas morning and if this is true we're fighting it)

1wk for spring break (these are the only school breaks they get)

8wks in the summer

Daily contact by any electronic means we choose

Anytime BM comes here she has to tell us & let us see them

Anytime we want to go there we only have to give BM 24hr notice and she has to make them accessible to us

That's all we get.  10 weeks out of 52.  And now we have to try and get Child Support dropped or reduced so we can afford the 12hr (each way) trip.  The Law Guardian told us he'd even ask the judge to write it into the court order that the kids be allowed to come here for our wedding next Sept. 1st (BM said she won't let them cuz school starts in August, even though it's a holiday wkend and they'd only be missing a day or two of Kgtn & 1st grade).

I'm absolutely miserable, my fiance is holding it in right now, but I know he's going to break when they've been gone awhile and the shock wears off.  

I've seen this a few times in the subject lines or after someones name, and just now at the end of one of Socrateaser's replies to a post.  What does it mean?

Even though we weren't planning on having skids over this weekend, because we've had them the past four weekends in a row, plus one every Wednesday, we probably would've ended up taking them out to do something today or tomorrow anyway.

Knowing that we CAN'T see them, because they're in Illinois for the week, with BM, really sucks.  It's one thing when it's our choice not to visit with them, but when that choice is taken from us, it makes it worse.

My FH has tried calling to talk to the kids at least four times now, since BM told us she was leaving Thursday after court (it's now Saturday morning), and he still hasn't reached them.  He asked her to have them call and say goodbye to him, told them we have free long distance so we don't mind making the calls- but nothing.  We don't even have her phone # out there, just her cell phone # that she never answers.

It's going to be a long week.

I am floored.  I sent our lawyer a fax this morning, asking if we move from our townhouse to a larger house w/ a fenced in yard and a play room for the kids, closer to family, will that help our case, or will it be considered a "disruption" to the children's lives that we should avoid during this time.  
In response, our lawyer called and told me that BM's lawyer confirmed their divorce is final (okay, good, finally), and that she's leaving after our court appearance tomorrow for Illinois, so she can get married!  And our lawyer agrees with hers that the kids should be there with her, so he's letting her take them, because she knows she has to bring them back for our weekend on the 18th (and her first court appearance v. the 10yo's dad on the 18th).  
I argued that we get a visit during the week, which we usually take on Wednesdays, so why can't she be back by then, but our lawyer says he's not going to push it.  If she doesn't come back on the 18th, we can go to IL w/ the court order and have her arrested.  Yeah, right.  Like the NY cops are going to go w/ us and chase her around Illinois?!  And we want the kids to witness this?!
So I call my FH and wake him up (he's working nights) and he agrees with the lawyer!  I can't believe it!  He said BM's not stupid enough to not come back.  I told him she was stupid enough to marry him! and hung up on him, which apparently got him to call the lawyer, but per the voicemail he left me afterward, their "decision" still stands.  Bulls#*t!
This is ridiculous!  We just fought like mad to get the court order, to keep the kids here, and now they're just going to hand them over?!  They think it'll be looked upon as some action of good faith- I think they look like idiots!  No judge would blame us for not trusting her!  
And wait, I'm sure she'll use it against us, that we let her take them once, that we didn't fight for that one visitation day, and the kids will be talking about nothing but the new place (they'll be there for 8 days!) so if they have another meeting with the law guardian I can only imagine all the new & exciting things they'll have to tell him about!
Ugh!  I can't stop crying and the stepmom online support group I belong to has been shut down all week, so this is my only release.  Please bear w/ me through this really long rant.  Thanks.

KidzNeedDadTo replied to Detter D's post "I feel I've been divorced from my children" on Tuesday, August 1st.  His message was very distraught sounding and I replied to it right away.  There haven't been any other posts on the board from KidzNeedDadTo since then.  

I sent an email directly to KidzNeedDadTo Thursday, August 10th, letting him know that I'm worried about him- even though I don't know him or his family, or anything else about his situation but what he wrote on Detter D's post, but I haven't heard anything back.

I hope maybe the silence means KidzNeedDadTo is getting to spend time with his daughter.  I don't want to think anything bad or negative.  

If anyone out there has had any contact with KidzNeedDadTo, or you've seen any postings from him since August 1st, please respond to this, for my own piece of mind- PLEASE?!  

Thank you.

We had our "first appearance" in family court yesterday, and BM seemed like she honestly thought she'd walk in there and leave having "won" and would be able to move to Illinois this weekend! The "referee" (it's not a judge) immediately realized she didn't have counsel present and adjourned until the 22nd and assigned a Law Guardian to meet with the children. BM's mom was there- and get this- they both showed up wearing above-the-knee jean skirts & flip-flops! Real classy! Anyway, BM's mom complains that the kids are due to start school (in Illinois) on the 23rd, so the date gets bumped up to next week, Aug. 10th. I waited for our attorney to counter that, and he didn't, so I spoke up (and the referee SMILED at me) and I told him that the children are still registered at their elementary school here- they just have to be re-enrolled, which is just a matter of filling out a form! I was smiling the whole time and trying to hide it. BM's mom looked like she wanted to choke me.

BM holds up their separation agreement, says "He gave me sole custody!" The referee told her we're not in trial yet, he's only holding up the judge's petition stating she can't take the kids out of the state, but she's free to go! And if she does go, the kids go to their father! And then the referee pointed out that if we go to trial, that will run way past the beginning of school in either state so the school issue will be irrelevant! His tone of voice was very demeaning towards BM the entire time, and when he told her she was free to leave, but the kids weren't, he even flipped his hand at her, said "Go! But they don't leave!"

The kids met with a law guardian today (who is an old friend of my parent's, but BM took the kids to the appt. so we didn't get to tell him this- it may not affect it one way or the other, but I'm willing to try!) Originally BM said "YOU make the appointment, YOU take them" but I don't know if she figured it would look better if she took them, or if she actually was being considerate since she's a SAHM and he's working nights and getting up to take them to a noon apt. would totally interrupt his sleep for the day, but my FH wanted to be the one to take them to the apt. anyway.  He felt that they might have "nicer things to say about the parent they last see before going in with him" but I know that's not the case. They're 4 & 5 and they're going to want to live w/ their mom, but they're not going to want to be separated from their dad, either. We now to have to trust in the professionals to do what's best for them, to do their jobs properly (fingers crossed).

BM left there ticked off, never spoke 2 words to us the entire time. We feel much better about our case now, though- but not 100% confident. Even though BM can get an attorney now and will have time to prepare before a trial, we're way ahead of her with all the research I did and everything I've put together for our attorney.  I hope her attorney, who she obviously has not retained these past few weeks, wants to kick her in the behind for not having done so, and then do the same to her mother, whose big mouth moved the date up, giving him only 10 days to prepare his case for the pre-trial conference next week, rather than the 22 days he would've had!

I just still can't believe that right out of the gate the judge-guy was already "against" the MOM!  Score one for the DADS!