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I use to be on this forum some years ago when my DH was first going for custody of his DD.  We did get custody and did our best to raise the child, though it was hard at times as she was still seeing her mother and mom's abusive BF. Mom and the BF were watched by CPS for more than 3 years. Mom is diagnosed bipolar but appears to have BPD. When the girl was a toddler mom was in psych wards for a year at a time while my DH raised the infant.  The girl went to a therapist for 3 years and she seemed to be straightening out, until she started spending more time with her mother.


The child is now 13. After the last abuse problem, where mom's BF was throwing plates at the dining room wall, we went through 1 year of visits without the BF, 1 year of visits in the community with the BF, and were just starting to go into regular visitation.  October 5th was to be the girl's first regular weekend visit with her mother - except the girl called on Saturday and told DH that she wanted to live with her mother.


Ironically, we had just signed a new ACCESS agreement with the mother on August 29th. It specifically says it's the Applicant Mother's Access agreement and then states that the girl can visit as she wishes - but that my DH and the mother must agree on the visits.


For some reason mom has it in her head that this agreement SAYS that the girl can live with whoever she wants. And she thinks that (Ontario Canada) law says that the girl can choose where she wants to live at age 13. (Um, no. It only says that at 13 the child can give her opinion to the court via affidavit.)


But mom is convinced the girl can choose and the 13 year old is insistent on believing her mother.


Unless we call the police for Parental Abduction, we cannot get the child back on our own. We are currently waiting to see the court to request a Police Assistance clause be added to the custody order.  (You have to have a Police Assistance clause in the custody order or the police will not get involved in a custody problem.) Court date is November 28th.  (Why do we always get stuck with court on US Thanksgiving? I'm American and would like to have my Thanksgiving.)


DH was able to see the child for a few minutes with mom watching from a distance. At that point all he could do was ask her "Why?" She wouldn't answer but he says she had this nasty smirk on her face - until he started crying.  This devastated him as we'd put so much heart into raising this girl after she was abused.


At first the girl asked about visitation with us but now that DH has refused to hand over her birth certificate (mom wants to use it to get gov't money - but mom doesn't have custody so that wouldn't work) now mom is telling her not to talk to DH.  So DH hasn't seen her in more than a month and can't even talk to her. She doesn't even answer his Facebook messages.


Honestly, the mother is a serious problem: she's a game player who has basically no morals. She feels she is above the rules and the law - as long as she can get away with it.


We're at a loss.  If we go through with the Police Assistance clause we know we'll have an angry teenager on our hands that will still be going to visit her mother constantly, and mother will continue with the parental alienation that DH has been a victim of for so long and encouraging the girl to ignore our rules here at home.

We're now beginning to lean toward letting the child go to make her mistakes, because there's no way we can create a happy home when there's a mother with mental health issues constantly back-biting and attacking us.

Oh, point of information: the new Access Order says that the terms of the agreement cannot be changed for a minimum of one year.  We had to do that as before this mom was agreeing to orders and then applying to change them before the ink was even dry - which is exactly what happened this time too, except she just took the child instead of trying to re-write the agreement.

The Access Order is part of the Custody Order, with just the access terms changed.  The custody portion says there is joint custody but that our home is the child's primary residence and that my DH has "full care and control of the child." 

So, I guess my question is: if we should decide not to take action with trying to get the child back, what happens with this Custody/Access Order?  Would the courts allow the mother to change the order before that year is up?

I know the mother thinks what she's done is above the custody order and the law right now but she's going to find that she can't get that gov't money for the child that she thinks she can - not unless she has a custody order that says she's the one that has custody of the child.

Hope this all makes sense.  It's a mess.

In another group of mine, we're talking about divorce decrees and inclusions that require a parent to pay college tuition for a "child".  In that discussion one of my boardmates said:

I'm not sure about every state, but according to my lawyer, a divorce decree providing for college tuition is unenforceable because parents just aren't required to provide funds for college. We have to pay for food, clothing and shelter until 18... married or not.

[/I]

What say the board members here?  Is college tuition enforcable in your experience, within your knowledge?

I noted with interest this link below in a discussion where someone was being denied visitation due to the child being "sick" all the time.

http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/sickvisit.php (http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/sickvisit.php)

The article is quite adamant about a child's right to see their non-custodial parent and also that both parents should share custody during illness to show support.  My question is: what if anything do you do about a non-custodial parent that is constantly cancelling visitation due to "illness"?

For example, what do you do when the child has no fever, no cough, no runny nose but is simply cranky because she's been allowed to stay up late and she has a stuffy nose - but the BM brings the child back at 10PM at night - basically because the BM a) doesn't know how to parent and b) because the BM doesn't want to put up with a cranky child?

Today, SD visited with BM and BM told SD that she (BM) was angry with my DH because he allowed SD to go to BM's when she had a stuffy nose!  I mean, come on!  A stuffy nose!!    

What do you think?  Do we need to put a modified version of the above link into our parenting plan so BM knows that it is considered proper for the child to go to a parent's home when they have a very minor childhood illness?

We started out by putting together a motion to request Child Support from BM.  And since we were having problems with BM moving all the time and not wanting to tell us where she was going, we added in a request for an order that BM must always give us a valid, current home address and telephone number.  (Yeah, I know that's not perfect but it's a step in the right direction.)

Anyhow, BM doesn't like that we're asking for Child Support, so after responding to our papers one time she decided to attack.  Even though in two sets of paperwork she says that no changes need to be made in custody, access or child support - and even though she's offered a very meager child support - suddenly she's put up a straw man argument in the middle of some paperwork saying she wants more time with SD9.  All of a sudden she's added in this request saying she wants overnights in the middle of the week and all.  (Mind you, she doesn't even take SD for the full access time granted by the courts and she's cancelled 26 days worth of visits of the days she does take SD since last December.)

But my question is, since BM didn't bother to start this as a Motion filed with the court the way we did, does the court have to hear her request?  We had to begin our case by filing a Motion, filling out the paperwork, serving the paperwork, etc.  Can she just bypass all that now and put forth this strawman argument to try to distract from our Child Support request?

[Response:]

BM handed DH her response papers for our child support case just before court starts, when she was supposed to give them by Tues at the latest.  So the judge asks if DH will accept the papers since they're late.  DH says he accepts the papers but not the information in them.  Judge says okay, he just cancelled a settlement conference for Nov 5th so we can have that date - and DH can file his objections to the contents then on a new Settlement Conference form.  So, I'm already done with that and here's what our response is:

Response:

Regarding the change in the original order for access, the custodial Respondent, DH, has requested that he be given a valid phone number and address for the non-custodial applicant at all times.  This request is made for two reasons.  1) Due to the Applicant's history of moving residence every 6 to 11 months.  And 2) Because the Applicant has attempted to hide her whereabouts from the Respondent previously, at the insistence of her partner BM's BF.  In the last two moves, even the Applicant's adult sons have not been informed of the Applicant's address.  It is not in the best interests of the child for the custodial Respondent, DH, to not know where the child is being taken.  Among other things, the non-custodial Applicant does not have legal jurisdiction over the child and cannot consent to treatment of the child should a medical problem arise.  The Respondent, DH, has full care and control of the child, with the Applicant, BM, only being allowed information.

Regarding BM's Financial Statement, BM states she has been unemployed since 2004.  However, per BM's multiple statements to me as well as statements from my daughter as to her mother's work schedule, at the time of filing BM had worked a total of 20 uninterrupted months in 2 couples jobs with her partner, BM's BF.  The situation with them has changed, however. 

In August or September of this year BM received a settlement in a 4-year-long injury lawsuit.  At that time, she and her partner bought a condominium [COLOR=#NaNNaNNaN](Yes, folks, they were able to buy their new place and put down a hefty downpayment, apparently![/COLOR]), bought a truck and numerous other expensive items - [COLOR=#NaNNaNNaN]and then they both quit their jobs.  [/COLOR]
When asked, BM has simply stated that she's spent almost all of her settlement and that she is on Disability.  If Disability has been informed of the lawsuit settlement, they would still allow BM to have a settlement of up to $100,000 and allow her to collect a pension.  Collecting Disability need not equal being destitute. 

Beyond that, BM's Disability is not the only income that she and her partner have received during 2009.  Both were, to my knowledge, employed by Local Condominiums up until September 2009 - but BM notes income from only Sept 2009 to Oct 2009 - only one month - completely ignoring income from the rest of the year.  She only lists income from after she and her partner quit their jobs in September 2009.

There are other inconsistencies in BM's paperwork.  She lists now owning a condominium at 385 XXX in Our Town, supposedly worth $80,000.  A scan of housing listings for her area show a condo for sale at 365 XXX for $199,900; and again at 365 XXX another condo recently sold for $181,900.  Being only one unit away, these condos would have comparable pricing to BM's condo.

BM states she owns a 1998 Buick Century and a 2001 Dodge Dakota Sport, but she states the value of both vehicles as $800.  However, when she purchased the Buick Century in the spring of 2009, at that time she stated to me that car alone had cost her $800.  There is no listing for the value of 2001 Dodge Dakota Sport in her paperwork.  A scan of current sales listings shows that a Dodge Dakota Sport may sell at anywhere from $3,500 to $10,900.

BM states she has only one bank account with approx $800 in it.  However, on the next page she lists an overdraft at an OtherBank otherwise not listed in the paperwork.

BM lists debts for two leased vehicles - but she lists no monthly payments for these debts.  And since she owns a car and a truck outright and has no other vehicles in her possession, why would she have debts for two leased vehicles?

Request for Document Disclosure:

As there appears to be significant hidden income and assets, I am requesting an order for document disclosure. 

I would like copies of the following paperwork:

- I request statements from the last 6 months for any and ALL bank accounts, savings accounts, and other investments tied to BM's SS number: X.  This is to include the account where the original lawsuit settlement funds were placed.

- I request the full printed paperwork of BM's income tax for 2008.  In previous dealings I have been told before by lawyers that a Direction to Canada Revenue Agency form can easily be ignored by the agency and I will not waste the court's time waiting to see if the information will or will not be sent.  BM can request a copy from the company that filed for her or directly from Canada Revenue herself, to ensure the court receives the information.

- I request copies of all sales paperwork for the condominium BM has purchased, showing the purchase price, the down payment made, and the mortgage amount.

- I request a copy of the agreement between BM/BM's BF and Local Condominiums showing the salary they made as a couple and the value of the apartment they received in lieu of payment.  (It is stated this way as this was a couple's position and it is unknown how the agreement would list the names.)

- I request a copy of BM/BM's BF's last 6 months worth of paystubs.  (It is stated in this way as this position was a couple's position and it is unknown how the paystub would list the names.)

- I request a statement or letter directly from Disability showing the amount that BM receives or has received from them each month for the last year.

- I request a letter from Disability stating whether BM is still eligible to collect Disability, given her recent injury lawsuit settlement.  (That means she'll have to admit to Disability that she got a settlement. )

Our offer to settle:

It appears that given BM's recent lawsuit settlement she will no longer make any effort to be employed.  (Maybe I should drop that line, as it might just anger BM and evoke a negative reaction.)  Therefore, BM is to agree to allow the court to impute an annual income to her of $35,600 per year, until SD9 reaches 18 years of age.   

The value of the child support will vary as the Guideline tables are updated but will remain at the income level of $35,600 per year.

This value is reached by adding a 40 hour work week at minimum wage, plus half the monthly value of the free use of the apartments BM received in lieu of income in her two previous jobs at $500 per month, plus the $800 per month Disability pension that BM claims. 

At current table amounts this would yield a child support payment of $330 per month.

We filed for Child Support a month ago.  The court requires that BM file a Financial Statement within 30 days and give us a copy.  We've gotten nothing from her.  

Background:  A week ago CPS was visiting, giving us a report on their latest visit with BM.  Turns out that for the second time in just months BM has again tried to file a complaint against me, saying I'm abusing SD9.  BM has been saying that she's getting low on money and I think the former child support DH was paying is looking pretty good right now, even though BM hates having SD with her and tries to get rid of her as quickly as possible.  Still, BM had SD lie to the CPS agent the very first day that SD came over for her 2 week summer visit.  SD is afraid of BM and will do what she's told to do.  This time the CPS agent saw through it immediately (really poor lying on their part) and never even opened an investigation.  The next day SD called us crying, asking to come home.  And a week later she called us again, crying to come home and even invoking a special password that was only supposed to be used if she was being abused at BM's.  (She said she wasn't being threatened, she just wanted to come home.)

So, tonight the talk started while DH and SD9 were doing the dishes this evening.  DH was telling SD that we were taking our puppy to the vet tomorrow.  SD said, "Can I go?"  DH answered that she'd be at BM's tomorrow.  "Awwww!!  Can't I stay home?"

Fast forward about an hour; DH is putting SD to bed and she says to him "I don't want to go to BM's tomorrow."  DH says she has to.  SD says, "But you have control."  (DH has all care and control of SD, BM only gets visits and information.)  DH says, not for this.  (The CO states the visitation schedule.)  "But you said you had control!"  Not of this.  SD says, "I could get sick."  You could go to BM's even if your sick.  "No, Mommy doesn't want me to come over when I'm sick."  DH says he can't do that.  "When is my next overnight?"  DH says not until September. (We have our vacation time with SD coming up.)  SD looks surprised, then says, "I don't want to stay overnight at Mommy's anymore."

And what's the only reason she'll give DH for going through all of this?  Because she won't be able to play with her friends.  Um, no.  This hasn't been an issue all summer.  Something else is going on there and I think it stems from her 2 weeks with BM, and maybe also with BM manipulating SD into lying about me to CPS.  And maybe something more happened on Sunday, with BM being angry that she's not allowed in our home anymore.  (I didn't want to see her anymore because she's telling all these lies and I can't maintain the false face when she shows up, so DH asked her to stay in her car from now on.)

Wed is SD's appt with her therapist.  I think maybe we'll see if she'll tell the therapist some of what's really going on.  And if necessary maybe shortly we'll see if we can cut back BM's visitation time.

I see that the group has a Buddies List.  Is there also the facility for an Ignore List?  I don't see the option in the Buddies area the way I have in other groups.

TIA!

you found out that your discussions on another self-help board were being copied and posted to another discussion board without your (previous) knowledge or approval?

The originating discussion board is similar to this SPARC board in that it's for discussing divorce relationships.  The offending discussion board, just by its name, is obviously used to attack and denigrate people behind their backs.  However, I don't think any extensive personal information has been given out beyond the basics.

because DH had complained to BM's agent that BM wouldn't let SD9 call us while she was visiting.  Sat down with the agent and I think this is the best talk we've ever had with her.  She finally seemed to be more on our side, or at least she was open to us in a way she hadn't been for quite a while.  :thumbs_up:

We talked to her about SD not being allowed to call us.  We talked to her about SD saying she thought the BF was drinking again.  She (the agent) then talked to SD and we learned more.  Now - with some pushing - SD admitted that the BF has now had a drink in front of her.  "But only half a beer.  He drinks half and then puts the other half in the refrigerator."    And then she told CPS that "That's okay, though, because Mommy and I have talked to him about that and that's all he's allowed to have."  Yeah - and how many other folks let their beer go flat until the next day?  Not!  The naivete of kids.

And SD did a lot of 'I don't remembers' which the CPS agent was mostly able to push her past.  With the story about drinking, that tells me that BM has been coaching SD on what she is and isn't supposed to say.

The CPS agent said later that she was confused.  She said, "BM seemed so interested in having SD visit before this and now..." She just put her hands out like she didn't understand what was happening.  And I said to her, "Well, I had the feeling that either you or the other CPS agent had talked to BM and told her that she wouldn't get custody of SD."  The CPS agent then admitted she told BM there was no way she'd get custody back.  Then DH chimes in, "And that's when things changed.  When she couldn't get custody she didn't need to impress you anymore." 

Of course the thing we carefully didn't add, so as not to jeopardize our statements, was the rest of the truth.  Once BM realized she wouldn't be getting the child support back, then she didn't have to try anymore.  She didn't have to take or make phone calls with SD, she didn't have to appear to want to spend more time with SD, and her BF didn't need to appear to have stopped drinking.

I'm betting that the agent won't have made all those connections, but DH and I have.
So, the agent is now going to call BM and tell her that BM must let SD call us whenever she wants.  :thumbs_up:  The agent also said that if we have problems with contacting SD while she's with BM for two weeks then we can contact her and ask her to get involved.  (We asked for this and she agreed.)  And the agent will be doing a 'home study' with SD and BM during the two weeks that SD is spending summer vacation at BM's!  Which is great because then BM and the BF will have to be nicer to SD!  :thumbs_up:

I'll tell you, trying to keep up with these BM's and keep them from messing up people's (and kids) lives is exhausting!   

Hope this is okay to put here...

I was just wondering, are you aware that new posters are stopped from posting if they happen to put an emoticon in their post? 

If there's an emoticon in the text a note will come up stating that the poster is not allowed to put in links.  Now, maybe I think too highly of myself but I'm not so sure that most folks would figure out that the "link" that is being refused is one of the emoticons from your site's own dropdown emoticon menu.

DH has had custody for 18 months.  He got custody due to BM's BF being abusive to my SD who is 9.  Due to the BF, they had supervised visitation through last summer and so they didn't have any summer vacation schedule.  But this year BM is supposed to have 2 weeks of uninterrupted vacation time with SD.  There are only a few problems. 

1 A few weeks ago BM decided she didn't want SD calling *her*, so now she's assumed she somehow has a right to tell SD that she's not allowed to call her father!  We've told BM that per the custody order she must allow SD to call DH when SD is with BM - but we have no idea how well that's going to work.  (The custody order allows for "reasonable telephone access".

2 SD just told us the other week that BM's BF has started drinking again.  CPS had determined that the BF became abusive because he was drinking and he was to go to AA to keep him from drinking.   BF was in a snit over their cat last weekend which scared SD (due to her experiences with him abusing her) and she asked to come home to us but BM told her no.

We are really worried about what will happen with their two weeks of vacationtime.  They seriously aren't capable of handling SD.

What would you do about the contact problem? 

I've seriously thought that if SD can't call us and if BM gives us trouble with talking to SD, that we just might call the police and let them do a "wellness" check.  At that point I think that BM would be more likely to let us talk to SD on the phone.

My DH is reluctant to go for child support.  He feels that fathers seldom get child support and doesn't want to spend the money to find out.  Since we would be pro se anyhow and there is no cost for filing a motion, I'm not so sure that we would be spending money to request this.

BM is working at a couple-based job with her boyfriend; they are supers of a condominium.  I've done some research and in this area couples doing this kind of job can make about $32,000 to $38,000 per year.

Is there a reason why we couldn't ask for child support, now that BM is working?  Will courts not grant child support to the father just because you're asking the mother for money?

(BTW, for the record and not knowing if it would make any difference.  DH got custody easily because BM's BF physically abused the child.  But the custody order said no child support requested, but that would not prejudice requesting child support of BM in the future.)

Thanks for any help you can give.

Teri

Hi, I'm Teri.  I've been reading the board off and on for a few months trying to get info to help my DH win custody of his 7 year old daughter.

It's been a rough road.  We first noticed that DD needed to be away from BM about a year ago, about 4 months after DH's divorce finalized.  BM first had a constant round of guys going to meet her at her apartment, then she had a guy move in with her after only knowing him 2 weeks.  At that same time she started getting eviction notices from the apt complex.

A few months later we hear she attempted suicide, but by the time we hear this things have quieted down again and she and her live-in BF are looking at getting a rent-to-own duplex.  Only thing is that the rent is $100 more per month than for the place they'd been getting eviction notices for,plus utilities.

So BM and BF move with DD7 into the duplex.  Six months later they're evicted, but get back in after borrowing money - a full month's check - from a Welfare mother!  (They never pay it back.)  They start receiving eviction notices on a monthly, and sometimes weekly, basis as they pay back rent and then don't pay the full rent.

BM and her BF decide they're going to move from the country into the big city.  DH and I have already decided we're going to go for custody at this point and this works for us as we work in that big city and it would cut our commute time.  After months of saying 'gonna move tomorrow or next week,' BM and her BF finally move with DD.  By that time we've already found a place we want to move to and we follow 2 months later.  

A month after our move we tell BM that we want custody of DD7.  She says she wants to think about it but next time she brings DD over she hands DH custody papers that she's filed and says she has a court date.  Well, DH has already talked to an attorney so it doesn't matter who filed.

BM and her BF are extremely unstable.  In 1.5 years time they move DD7 to 6 houses and 5 schools, and the poor kid is only in 2nd grade!  They also go through 5 different pets, which last from 3 weeks to 3 months and then "runaway".

When DD starts telling us that the BF has threatened to rip the head off her 'security blanket' teddy bear and that BM has gotten her up several times in the middle of the night to pack bags and walk to the police station - walking because the BF threatens to slash the tires of BM's van - we ask the court to have a Child Advocate added to the case.  This is done, the advocate does all the research and prepares a report.  DD, who originally said she wanted to only live with us, after a comment by the advocate, DD then starts asking for 50/50 custody.

The advocate does a disclosure meeting which validates everything DD7 has told us.  The advocate says 50/50 custody BUT BM and the BF MUST take counseling together.

A few days later the BF flips out over the report and the counseling, and BM shows up on our doorstep at 2AM with DD7.  She tells us that the BF has been hitting DD in the head and poking her in the eye, he's threatened to burn her teddy bear and even threatened to kill DD's current puppy before her eyes!  We put DD to bed and call the police.  BM confirms that this has actually been going on for a month and a half and she never told anyone, including the Child Advocate!! BM goes to a shelter the next day and DD stays with us.  Two days later BM goes back to the BF!!

Children's Aid is called in.  After some investigation (and BM leaving the BF a second time and then going back to him yet again!) they confirm that everything is true.  (Maybe the BF admitted to everything?)  They say that the BF can only have supervised visitation, that the supervisor and the time and the place must be agreed upon by BOTH my DH and BM - and that BM CANNOT be the supervisor, thank goodness!!

So, in a nutshell, that's where we are as of today.  DD has been with us for two weeks now; it's been two weeks since BM brought her here.  DD is very happy here, though she is concerned once in a while that she won't be allowed to ever see BM again.  Once she's told she can see BM anytime she wants she's happy - and doesn't even ask to see or call BM.

We're hoping that with all this going on we'll be able to get the judge to okay our having primary custody of DD.  There's no current custody order by the courts, just a domestic agreement between DH and BM.

It's been a really long, hard road so far but I'm hoping that because of all that in the end everything will turn out the very best for DD, DH and I.

Teri