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Soc,

A co-worker of my wife is in a unique situation - not sure if you might be able to provide insight or not. I said I'd ask...

case is in CA

Woman worked for an adoption facilitator for a while and she just found out that her former employer is set to be deposed against her on Monday in a CUSTODY fight with her ex BF for her son.

Woman didn't leave the facilitor's company on good terms and she is concerned because the facilitator has intimate knowledge of her life, including the details of a child she placed prior, using that same adoption service she worked for. (no the child placed was not the exBF's) She wasn't fired from the facilitator's company, she quit.

The exBF apparently called the facilitator to get "dirt" on his ex because he knew they were on bad terms.

1. Can this former employer discuss anything regarding this woman's private life legally?

2. What is this former employer allowed to speak of, bearing in mind this woman was also a client a year prior?

3. Could this former employer/facilitator provide documents to the exBF and his attorney regarding the child the woman placed earlier?

4. Isn't there some sort of privacy law this violates? Either on the end of being a client or as a former employee? After someone leaves employment, isn't there some sort of prevention regarding blacklisting?

5. This deposition is set to happen Monday afternoon, (april 4) if there are laws against any type of disclosure of private information this ex employer could violate, is there anything the woman might be able to do to prevent to deposition from happening?

Thank you for your time.  

The policy they have initiated is actually one a lot of larger compaines are taking up to keep the less than honest employees from taking advantage of "sick days" when they aren't sick.

Unfortunately, most of the people that take advantage of the sick days are those who don't have families - so you are basically getting screwed because non-parents took one too many days in the past few years off to nurse hangovers - and the company lost out in productivity and probable profit as a result.

The nutshell is there is nothing illegal about the policy.

having him call back and retract the statement was the wrong thing to do. It's pretty much akin (in a guy's eyes) as tripping over a crack and then having to go back to apologize to that part of the sidewalk. Pointless.

You put him in a really embarassing situation and there was no way his male pride was going to take the bite for it. His ex wife has known him longer than you have, she knows what he will and won't apologize for, it's part of why they are divorced. So she knew the minute the "retraction" came out of his mouth who made him do it. You pretty much set your own self up for that humiliation.

Next time, let it slide woman, don't be so insecure.

The family thing...

You know what, I have a daughter with a woman I'm not married to anymore. We will always, to a point, be family because that is what our child feels we both are, her family. I will not, under any circumstance, spoil that image for my daughter and neither will my ex.

She and I will occasionally banter abut things going on in our lives, even when we were going through the harder times of our split #1 because our daughter was in earshot, #2 because you can't be effective parents if all you do is hate each other.
 

depending on where your court case is. I have friends who live in the "bible belt" in western TN, and several other states along that "line" and morality is a HUGE issue in some of the smaller county jurisdictions.

A guy I know was subject to supervised visitation and scorn from the court for merely dating while his divorce was in process and meeting up with the woman and all of their respective children at a McDonalds. You have to wonder what would have happened to his custody had the woman slept over.

We may live in the USA in 2005, but not every square inch of this country is as progressive thinking as many on this board, and that has to be taken into consideration when someone brings "morals" to the table for question.

From what I've heard about/seen/read - just because a child asks for the change in custody - doesn't make your case any easier.  

There still has to be substantial reasons for the change and it has to be other than the child just isn't getting along with mom very well right now - and that is all it sounds like. Kids & parents argue. She is hitting preteen years, testing her mom, hormones, etc.

Also, you said "children" - so I assume there is more than the one who is asking to live with you. A judge rarely breaks up siblings.

Although I agree with you that violence against men is not recognized as it should be - there is something to be said about "target audiences" too when it comes to things like this.

The letter was not on the editorial page of the Chicago Sun Times written for the entire public to see, or in the Sears catalog flyer which is seen by both men and women, this letter was addressed to consumers of Fashion Bug - those consumers being women.

I've been an unfortunate male stuck in a "Bug" while my wife shopped. It's a harrowing experience of pastel colors and no where to sit. Men have no business in a FB store as far as I'm concerned, so it shouldn't be expected that they be a focus of any letters, articles or otherwise.

It is not the CEO of Fashion Bug's job or responsibility to educate the consumers on the full issues of domestic violence. It's enough she even brings the subject to the table. Just because she only mentions men in passing does not mean she isn't aware of DV against men, but when you are looking to touch the hearts (and the wallets) of your primary consumer, you write your letter, article, advertisement, etc. to appeal to them.

There is no reason to go half cocked over a letter that mentions DV when it is really only being used as a marketing tool, and not an educational one. Sure she quotes a statistic, but look at it for what it is, an eye catcher - just like the "buy one get one free" posters they put in the window.

>>Under no circumstances be apologetic and weak. Don't say, "of course, I don't support what he did." Of course you don't support blowing up yourself in front of the Capitol. However, you don't need to say that.<<

Excuse me? Don't say you dont support what he did to not sound "apologetic and weak"? How about sounding SANE??

It's dimwitted dad's like this that make the effort those who are fighting for equality in the courts harder. These idiots are the people the ones who make the decisions remember.

He shouldn't have custody if he is that far off his rocker. If a mother who attempts to kill her kids shouldn't have custody, then a man who tries to blow up and potentially hurt innocent people should be kept away from his kids too. There is obviously a viable reason he's being denied custody.

I don't care how sympathetic anyone is to how someone feels, there is no reason to condone or otherwise excuse dumb behavior. Not saying anything against it is just as bad as saying you condone it.

The reason NEITHER of them were charged with murder is because Michigan law doesn't recognize a fetus as an individual until it is at 21 weeks gestation. What was quoted in the article is only part of the statute.

The reason Michigan places it at 21 weeks is so that it doesn't interfere with abortion "rights".

If the fetus was that or above, she would have been held liable as well. Thanks to the state covering their a** on abortion, she gets away, and he gets felony assault on her - no charge gets applied to the fact that the fetus was miscarried due to both of them being idiots.

for pretty much proving the point I was trying to make after Bolivar's 2nd attack on me, as he had back in September. Although from appearances on an administration side they look to welcome ANY parent in ANY custody situation here, some of you "longtime regulars" seem to make your own rules and laws of posting. Trying to run off who you don't feel meet these unwritten requirements. Regardless of how I got to it, I AM an "NCP".

Several years ago I came here as a just about to be divorced father and received quite a bit of help. I found the information on this site to be extremely helpful and the people here decent. I vented a lot. You cared. You treated me wonderfully and told me if I ever had any other questions to come back.

I took that to mean ANY questions. I thought this was ultimately about the well being of the kids.

When I came back in September with my next questions, I was angry. I was angry with myself mostly, I was angry with my ex, I was angry with my wife. I vented. I didn't post what I needed with exact accuracy because at the time I was pretty much a ball of frustration but I didn't think that would be that big of a deal, you had put up with venting posts from me before.

Then Bolivar lambastes me just because I didn't remember my old screen name. The entire string stopped being about doing what was best for my child and started to be all about your opinions about me, and your opinions about what I was choosing to do, your opinions of who I actually was - you tore every little post I made apart, even the first one that I made about 10 minutes after an argument I had with my wife. I got called a troll, a liar, selfish etc...All I wanted to know was what would be the best wording for my agreement, things I should be watchful of, for my daughter's sake.

There were a few people that saw what I was trying to accomplish, and helped me, gave me advice, and for that I will forever be grateful. I really didn't care what the lot of you thought of me personally, this was about my situation and what I knew, in my heart and living my life day to day was best. None of you from a message board have a right to judge me for my choice. Hell, you made some very wrong assumptions about what exactly my choice entailed and not once did you ever have the sense to clarify. You assumptions were so much juicer and allowed you the opportunity to attack me that much worse.

Some of you "old time regulars" took this site from a helpful and informative place to a web edition of Jerry Springer.... not once but twice now at my expense.  

Ever since September, I came by every once in a while to check up on a few of the people who have been nothing but kind to me, Kitten being one of them. I'd post on generic topics because I don't feel qualified to answer anyone's more detailed questions, not to mention I wasn't aware it was "quasi-required" by the "regulars" to be considered worthy of return to the site on even a sporadic basis.

Someone accused me in the past few days of posting my update to "rub your noses" in it, that I was only here to "rub salt in wounds", that I, once again, was a "troll" a PBFH, a "sadistic CP mom", a liar & a fake. Might I point out that I did not put up a single "update" post. THAT would seem like I was being pompous. All I did was answer someone who asked how things were going, and I answered with as little detail as possible out of RESPECT for everything others are going through. I even got grief for that, just saying "all is as it should be"....because it is, based on MY situation. The person that gave me grief made that one line out to sound as if I was extolling the virtues of motherhood over fatherhood. How they came up with that I have no idea. Anything else I posted was completely off the subject of my situation, but still on subjects I had knowledge of.

I was so rudely told that I had no business here if I didn't contribute and help others here. Well excuse me for thinking I was. Educating people on the inadequacies of domestic violence help, for either gender, in my opinion IS help. Then just because I happen to give a small amount of credit to the women's end of things, the message I was trying to send was ignored, and I once again MUST be a woman because god forbid a man on this site stand up for a woman's cause. Well, DV is not a "woman's cause" to me. I don't associate women's shelters with family court, or false RO's or what have you. I associate them with the violent death of my mother. You will never get me to look at it any other way, but apparently I'm wrong and horrible because I don't associate it the way you would prefer I do.

I got told several times in this last bashing session to "walk in our shoes". Well, I did once, back when I first divorced. I feel for each and every one of you. However all the empathy in the world for anyone else wasn't going to change what was happening with my daughter, and she will always be more important than anyone.

That said, here's a pair of MY shoes...why don't you put them on a read for a while.

Several years ago my wife at the time came to me and told me it was over, she wanted out. That I was emotionally "not there" for her. By that time I was so sick and tired of her inability to manage a checkbook or any other household finances I was quite ready to call it quits myself.

It turned into the typical "bite me"/"screw you" contest. Each playing the typical divorce and custody games. Her taking advantage of my mistakes and me taking advantage of hers.  (You know, that whole laundry list of "have you ever's" I believe MSD asked me). False allegations, withholding of visitation, we both did it to each other - just low enough under the radar to hurt each other but not high enough for the courts to care. Were we both good parents? Yeah, I can admit we were. Now anyway. But this stopped being about being parents, like so many divorces and custody battles these days.

Then my ex had her nervous breakdown...and I swooped down for what I can only describe now as the kill. I got the coveted "CP" title. The one thing I knew she wanted to retain so badly, just like it is the one thing so many of you feel is being denied to you. What I thought, at the time was the grand poohbah prize of divorce and custody.

But let's go back a second to why I got divorced in the first place. That whole "emotionally not there" thing. My wife now, very strong willed and independent, it's not an issue like it was in my first marriage, I didn't even consider the "emotional thereness" when it came to my daughter.

My ex was right about me in that respect. I really am not very capable of emotional support. Now I could Freud it out to the fact that my mother was killed by my father and I witnessed growing up very cold behavior so how could I learn to nurture with that type of influence - yadda yadda.  I could probably come up with a lot of excuses for it if I put my mind to it. I felt though, it was better for me to accept that that is just who I am.

My ex tried to get me to be more nurturing while we were married, to her and our child. When I got custody, my new wife stopped rescuing me and tried to get me to be more nurturing by going hands off when it came to my daughter. Both of them at some point thought that switch in me would turn on like a light.

I got accused of "obviously" being a "sadistic CP mom" because NO father in a custody situation would say good things about the mother. I got treated like I put her on some sort of pedestal, all because I admitted she was a better nurturer than me? what the hell was that? I've got a laundry list of things I can't stand about the woman, but it was irrelivant to the situation to list them all.

Plain and simple, I just don't have that circuitry. It tears me up inside. Counseling didn't even help. I can be the best provider, house, cars, food, and all the material necessities but there is a point in me where (although I can nurture to some extent) someone's tears become a great source of tension for me and I just can't handle it.

None of you, without a crystal ball to look into your future can know, with 100% accuracy if by being given the "CP" title, you would always do better than your ex ever would or could. You hope if it is awarded to you, you can. BUT - you know what this whole ordeal has taught me? That little girls who have witnessed an ugly divorce & were put through the wringer of custody (shrink evals etc) are more emotionally needy than their mommies ever were.

So I had a choice, I could continue to covet the CP title, keep my daughter with me and run the risk of her growing up to be like me, or I could do my daughter the huge favor of being able to gain fully from the good things both her mother & I bring as individual parents. Hmmm, really hard decision to make there if you put your child first.

I'd really rather blame work, life pressures, my wife, my ex, anything than admit I failed at being a nurturing parent - I'm a perfectionist by nature. It's wrong of any of you to just assume someone can be everything to a child if they "work" at it. Yeah, maybe I could have become more nurturing, but how long would it have taken and at what cost to my child? Why not have her be with the parent that already has that ability during the times of day she needs it most, which were evenings during the week, the times I always found I was at my worst.

So why am I posting all of this? You tell me you can learn nothing from my experience? Well I beg to differ.

Here are the life lesson's I've gained from being a pawn in the family court system.

Through life, when we broke up with people we dated, it was pretty short and simple. There was no intent on total annihilation, even if you lived together. You weren't urged by everyone to sling as much sh*it as you possibly could at each other. There wasn't a winner or a loser, there were just two people going their separate ways. I can't think of an ex-girlfriend that I can say I loathe with such deep feeling as I did my ex wife for a while there.

What we so quickly forget is that at one point, this person who is the other half of the DNA to our child(ren) was someone we felt was worthy of our love, that we shared a dream with, that we chose (for most situations) to have a family with. If this person were truly THAT evil, I seriously doubt we would have been attracted to them. There is and always will be a core, even in the person we split from, that will hold a special place in our hearts. Our marriages & relationships weren't 100% horrible 100% of the time. I sometimes wonder if things get so ugly in court because we are trying so hard to forget anything good about the other person just to be able to concentrate on the bad for the "win".

Divorce & custody court gives us this rather warped sense of "entitlement" that sometimes, well beyond the day the final papers are signed, still rings in our ears. We are assigned titles. CP, NCP, RESIDENTIAL, NON-RESIDENTIAL, LEGAL THIS LEGAL THAT...and we wear them either like badges of honor & control if you get the "right" one or badges of shame & defeat if you get the "wrong" one.

Well, my current wife and I sat down after all of this and decided it was best to leave the titles to the aristocrats and the British (no offense to any British on the board) and worry about what was best for my daughter. My ex agreed and we became PARENTS again. Not feuding ex's. Not CP's & NCP's....the courts, as far as we were concerned were no longer going to run our lives.

So for all of you to get so all up in arms that I was (OH HORROR UPON HORROR!) relinquishing my "CP" title was pretty well lost on me. It doesn't take a title to be a good parent, unless you count the ones spelled MOM & DAD. Only reason I even had to worry about the "title change" was due to my daughter's education and what would be required by the school. I had a few residual retaliation worries I wanted addressed, but over the course of the past few months I've found I had nothing to be concerned about.

I WAS where you are at one point, but when I came back here in September asking for your assistance again, I was well past the evil hateful spiteful stage, both me and my ex were....but there were still a few loose ends to tie up, that I had hoped I wouldn't have had to pay $250 an hour for when there were perfectly good knowledgeable people here from what I experienced.

I wasn't giving up my rights to my child, but you treated me like I was. My changing the title didn't make me lose any time with my daughter, as you assumed, it just got readjusted to better suit everyone's needs. I'm not going to apologize if, for our family, one of the needs is my continued profitable business. Nor am I going to sit here quietly and allow you to assume outrageous things like I relinquished the title of CP for selfish reasons. Peanutsdad even had the audacity to assume I did it just to have more time to myself. He couldn't be more wrong. Especially when he didn't even know what the visitation arrangements were before all of this. I tried in vein to get you to listen to me but the town riot was too far in full swing.

I didn't come back here to rehash my story. I wasn't even planning on bringing it up. What was I supposed to do when I was asked? Ignore it? Lie?  I didn't come back here to cause argument or problems. I didn't come back here to rub anyone's nose in anything. I don't, as someone said, think I'm some sort of "hero". But I am a "billboard" of sorts for the hope some parents have of the fighting ending, and everyone living in peace for the sake of their kids. I can say it does happen.

The only common link between any of us is the title the court puts on the person who is not the residential custodian. "NCP". All of our stories, histories and lives, although there will be some parallels, are fundamentally different and although it is wonderful that you can offer advice based on your experiences, it is very wrong of any of you to make accusations, judge or otherwise chastise anyone based on them. My ex wife is not your ex wife, my child is not your child, and you do not lead your lives in the exact same way as I do. I should not be made to feel bad simply because in our family, we have chosen to set aside the monikers.

In the end I didn't care if I was the CP, NCP, or the ABCDEFG...all I cared about was doing what would get everyone to long term peace, and stop my little girl from crying every night before she went to sleep. Hate me for my choice if you want to, but keep your insults to yourself from now on. I did what was right for my child, not YOUR child. MINE. I wouldn't dare tell you how to be a parent to your child, don't tell me how to be one to mine.

I'm still going to continue to peruse the site, like I said, I have made some friends here who understood exactly what I was striving for and I look forward to seeing what their progresses are. I may even post on a generic subject or two now and then. I have that right as I have done nothing wrong to any of you. Bolivar, Joni, Peanutsdad and the rest of you who want to believe the worst, go right ahead, but I'm sure everyone here would prefer you didn't start world war three by posting yet another "so and so" is a "so and so", or start in on me again over this.

Here is another extension of help I'd like to lend to the people of this site, although I get the feeling it has been suggested before and ignored:

Be you new here or a dinosaur, might I offer the suggestion that if you feel someone is not who they say they are, instead of the inflammatory public posts and making things get ugly and out of hand, as I can't see how that helps ANYONE'S custody situation, you contact the administration of the site to deal with it, or if you are so inclined to "confront" them that you at least do the courtesy to the other 1900+ members of saying your peace to them in e-mail, or by the private system. Twice now the same person has done this to me publicly and it has accomplished absolutely nothing of worth and ironically in it I get accused of not being a productive contributor...

**You do not share the same problems that most people here share. SIMPLE**

assumption on your part

**Where did I post that, other then to you?**

didn't say you specifically

**Now you have me confused with catherine, I feel insulted.**

my apologies

**I did however, try to make you see some value in the knowledge Bol has. You could learn a lot from him and others here.**

for what? my situation is done with.

**If I remember correctly, you got it pretty good on your first post here. Changing CP to NCP. Reason was, we could not understand why you would decide to do that. You could have kept custody and did shared parenting**

actually, no I couldn't due to distance, her schooling etc. She had to have her residence there. And no, her or I moving wasn't an option. That would have created more trouble & cost than it would be worth. What my choice was should never have been chastized like it was. It was the best scenario for MY family and that should have been respected from the get go.

**I think you have taken this all WAY BEYOND the need. I for one will let you find someone else to challenge. Maybe they can word it to your understanding...**

I'm the one being "challenged" here!! I'm not taking anyone on, I'm defending myself against an attack that there was no business having been done in the first place.

I've made the same point over and over, I don't feel I need to, nor do I want to understand the plight of every NCP but you and Bol keep trying over and over again to make me "see" something. These are YOUR causes, YOUR fights...they aren't mine. Good for you for having them but for christ's sake already, as callous as this sounds I DON'T CARE!

All I did was post a few comments/opinions on the DV system, having NOTHING to do with custody whatsoever and all of a sudden I'm being keelhauled by you and Bol over NCP sufferage & having my custody situation from back in September dredeged up like raw stinky stewage.

And I'm being accused of making too much of this? Both of you get off your soapboxes already!