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#11
Child Support Issues / RE: no
Jun 15, 2007, 09:46:20 AM
You cannot protect them from an emotionally absent and uninvolved father. Let the relationship take its' own course and stop trying to direct it. You left out a LOT of pertinent information and that is why some of us went in the direction we did with our posts.

YOU are only responsible for the portion of the childhood experience that the kids have with you. You cannot direct and oversee what goes on with their father, grandparents, etc.

If you are so comfortable with talking to him, why don't you talk to him about this? There may be things you aren't aware of. The kids may be manipulating things or,  you may be 100% right and there is absolutelly NOTHING you can do about that. You knew the type of person he was when you married him and you still decided to have kids with him. You cannot change that now.

He is most likely parenting just as he was parented. Many of us with rotten parents never learn how to rise above it and do better for ourselves and our children. I am not among that group, but I know of many and I also know that it was difficult for me to recognize the behavior patterns I was repeating even though I hated them. Not everyone has the fortitude to step out of roles they have been forced to live in, yet have become complacent with.

Being overprotective to make sure your kids have a "happy" childhood experience is a detriment to them. It will not produce well adjusted adults who know that life comes with good and bad. Let them deal with the relationship they have with their father. If one or the other comes to you with complaints about dad, tell them they need to talk to him about how they feel. They are old enough to handle this themselves mom. IF, they continue to have problems, I would talk to dad in a conversation out of the hearing of the kids and don't tell them about it. If you talk to dad, you have to be non-confrontational. The kids are teen and pre-teen - a lot of this may have a lot to do with that and nothing else. Who knows? Nobody will unless it is handled carefully and soon.

I told you that I may be wrong, but I still don't think I am totally off the mark. Missing them on the weekends they are gone is still too much emotional attachment no matter if you are remarried or not. Crying when they are gone is too much. I still think you need to take a close look at how you are reacting to this situation and realize that you are most likely contributing in some way.
#12
I may be wrong because I don't know a whole lot about this area, but it is my understanding that the Trustee is in place to make sure everything is done by the book. If the Trustee has been alerted that a debt is not valid to be included in the bankruptcy, I would think they would have a DUTY to investigate the matter. Why in the world would you even need a Trustee if they werent' there to make sure everything was handled properly?

The courts put rules in effect and put orders in place and then when they are alerted that the rules are not being followed, they hide behind procedures and technicalities to keep from doing anything. This seems to be the case too often!
#13
You totally missed the whole point of some of these posts. YOU have a problem that YOU need help with. YOUR problem is affecting your children and their relationship with their father.

YOU need counseling to help you get over their dad and learn how to move on with your life. The kids KNOW you are having anxiety attacks over the thought of them going to their dad's for the weekend. They KNOW you would prefer them to stay at home with you. Why are you putting them in that position and how can you live with yourself putting guilt trips on your children?  YOU are making them choose and they are caught in the middle.

How much of your current circumstances do you blame on the dad? How do you speak of their dad to them? Do you take a neutral stance and encourage them to have a relationship with him? I assume from  your posts that the answer to that is no. Have you ever blamed their dad for them not being able to have things or you not having money to do things for them? You have to be careful in the things you say and do. Kids are not stupid. You are living in the past. You are holding on to your anger over the break-up and they know it.

I told my daughter if she didn't want to come anymore she didn't have to and I haven't seen her in months. I resorted to that after  YEARS of intense PAS. You need to read up on PAS and see what some of the behavior patterns of alienating parents are. From your posts, I think you probably display many alienating behaviors.

What kind of leisure activities do you enjoy? What do you do on the weekends when they are gone? Sit and pine for them? I feel like you posted also that you cry over them being gone. Why in the world do you do that? If they go to a friends house for a sleepover, do you fret and cry then? If they stay at your parent's house for the weekend, do you miss them terribly and cry? You have to put this into perspective. YOU chose the man to have children with. You have not mentioned that he was abusive in any way or a convicted criminal or anything else that would justify keeping his kids from him. The only thing I can see that he has committed is becoming divorced from you. If there is something you haven't revealed, then I may be wrong, but you didn't provide any information showing him as an unfit parent. Why was he okay to be your husband, have kids with, and raise them together before and now he is not?

Everyone yells at kids sometimes. If you don't ever raise your voice to your kids, I suspect you are not providing a very structured or disciplined household. Kids need struture and discipline. They need to have consequences for misbehaviors. If you are not providing a strong parental presence for them, then dad is most likely trying to deal with that when he has them (and THAT will never work). Parents MUST be on the same page and parent together (even if they are divorced) in order to provide a solid foundation for children to grow up on. For whatever reason, your children are not getting that. I do not know what dad's side of the story is, but from what you have presented, the kids are dealing with a clingly, emotionally dependent mother who lacks strong parenting skills. What this will develop into is children who feel emotionally responsible for their mother, blame everything and everyone else for all the negative consequences in her and their lives even though they are mostly responsible for their plight, manipulate their mother since there are no consequences for their behavior and resist anyone who tries to impose struture and discipline on their lives. You will be dealing with children whom you have no control over and things will continue to go downhill from there.

Get a life for yourself outside of the kids. Go out when they are gone. Date. You don't have to bring someone home to meet them until you feel you have met someone special and you will know when that time is right. Involve yourself in activities that are adult orientated so you can get some time away. YOU need to find YOURSELF. You are not an extension of your children. You are an individual person, not just a mom. Your kids need to begin in the next few years to see you as an adult person who happens to be their mother. NOT a mother who is high up on a pedestal. When the kids see you are a person, they will feel they are their own selves as well and this will help them to live better lives. Seeing your parents as adults is a respect issue and I believe they develop more self-respect when they recognize their parents are PEOPLE and not their parents who they can always cling too like little children. I hope you understand what I am saying here.

Most importantly, put the relationship YOU had with dad in the past. The NOW is about the relationship they have with dad. Think about your relationship with your dad. What kinds of memories do you want them to have of their childhood? YOU have the power to make it a good experience for them or something they will need years of therapy to recover from (if they ever make it to therapy).

Please stop what you are doing now. Encourage the kids to go. Maybe call dad and tell him that the kids would really like to see XX movie (or whatever activity) and you wanted to let him know in case he wanted to take them. Tell him that you have a lot of opportunities to do special things with them and you want him to have a chance too. Keep him up to date on what's going in in school, etc. There is no reason not to keep him involved. The more information you give him and the more you encourage the kids to be involved with him in a positive way, the more of the "single" parent load will be taken off of your shoulders. Stop living like a martyr. You are creating your own suffering in order to raise yourself up to some higher level. You don't need that. Feel good about yourself just because of who you are. Not because of the suffering you are enduring and the load that you are carrying for others. Get rid of that stuff and be free of it. Once you are happy within yourself, everyone and everything around you will be better off.

Please go to at least a few counseling sessions to get a professional, neutral opinion on the matter. I truly think that if you can get into a better frame of mind and different mindset about things, life will be much better for you and your children.
#14
When are you going to head back to court? I've been wondering  how things are going for you. I'm sorry to hear about the job situation. Won't your ex be graduating from nursing school soon and getting a job? That will be a prime time to get a review of your CS order and you could get it changed then.

The laws are very loose in so many areas. They state the law and then have the last part say something to the effect of "or as determined by the court". This makes the "laws" meaningless because the judge can decide how the law applies or even if it does!

How are things going with your attorney?

#15
I agree with Mist. She knows better then to put the child support judgement under the bankruptcy and so does the attorney handling the matter.

You know what you need to file, I don't see why you would have to get an attorney, but if you feel you must, then do so. The trustee telling you that is not right, but many in the legal field behave in this manner. It's like a clique' they are all part of because they are members of the club and they certainly don't want the riff-raff rubbing elbows with them! If only they all realized that they are peering up at us from the gutter!

Yes, you are in the right to ask for interest and your attorney fees to be paid. Hell yeah I think it's worth it to collect the money. Do you think everyone would be blowing it off the same way if you were the one that owed the money? These are one of the examples of the biased system that I see all the time. to me, any amount of money would be worth it because of the principal of the matter.

It's your kids money. Go for it. It will be a huge chunk of college expenses if nothing else.

sorry for typing errors. I am at a different computer and hate this keyboard!

Good luck.
#16
Has she had her final hearing for the bankruptcy? If not, show up at the hearing and raise your issues. The hearing I am talking about is the one where the creditors who want to object or try to collect on part of the debt are invited to attend. You should be on that list.

I would stop being the nice guy and not communicate with her attorney any longer. Send a letter to the trustee of her bankruptcy along with copies of pertinent orders and let them handle it. You cannot control how the action to correct this is handled. There are rules to follow and BM has failed to follow them. Alert the proper authority and let it go.

My ex has pulled some real doozies. My advise, go on with your life and don't let her actions faze you. When she realizes she isn't getting under your skin anymore, then she may go in her own direction and even is she doesn't, you won't be worried about it anymore. Recognize that the dynamics of the relationship you two had will remain the same until YOU change them. She knows what gets to you. Change the rules of the game.

I would just notify the bankruptcy court and let the chips fall where they may. Perjury very rarely gets prosecuted so I wouldnt' worry about her doing time for it, but the debt should be excluded from the bankruptcy.

#17
In most cases, a party to the case cannot serve the opposing side. You can get anyone who is over the age of 18 and not a party to the case to hand her the papers. Get a family friend who she doesn't know preferrably. Then, that person has to complete an affidavit of service and send to the court. This will satisfy that she was properly served.

Good luck.
#18
Well, I opened the account with OCSE so she can't close it and I don't think she will so that is not a concern for me. If I were you, I'd request the case be re-opened to make sure you have proof you are paying. That is why I requested the monies go through their office via an earnings witholding order. I still get treated like a dead beat dad though.

Anyway, no this situation is not covered under FAQ's. All of the FAQ's are geared towards the "woman" asking questions related to inability to collect, etc.

I sent an e-mail with the situation and the reply was that as soon as they receive the new order my account will be handled accordingly. WTF does that mean?

Oh well, I'll just wait and see.

And the order was sent by the court to OCSE about two weeks ago and they still don't show they have received it.

I'll be glad when I don't have to play these games in court and with CS anymore. Sad to look forward to your child growing up due to this harassment and BS.

Thanks anyway.

#19
Child Support Issues / RE: any suggestions?
May 21, 2007, 07:19:35 AM
John,

The court is extremely biased when it comes to enforcing child support orders against women (and instituting one as you are finding out now).

Your attorney is giving you good advice.

The best thing to do is continue on as you have been and don't run up your costs by asking your attorney a million questions a million times.

The next regularly scheduled meeting with your attorney, inform him/her that you would like her to be ordered to pay all or a portion of your fees due to her actions being what brought you to court and her delays.

You've been supporting the kid for this many years, you've spent $8,000 on your lawyer, so you aren't hurting for the money.

No, it's not right that she isn't paying. But it is the fact and she is stalling on purpose and you know this.

Getting stressed out worrying over this is not worth it.

good luck.
#20
I have been paying through the OCSE for about 6 years. I'm sure they have encountered this before and know what to do. It's a first for me!

I think you are right about them crediting my account and not sending money to the ex until it is paid up. I guess that will make me ahead in my CS obligation then since my employer will still be taking the reduced amount out each week.

thanks, your reply was helpful!