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That is sad, but so true for so many. I wish the mothers could feel from the childs point of view and understand how important children (especially daughters) need theird fatehrs in their life. Even to know that they are loved.

I would write or send flowers or keep in constant contact to re-inforce your love as best you can. But fighting in court is worthless for dads. Unless teh mother is a druguser, abuser, or have  criminal record, dads never get anywhere in court.

My DH works, and I work. I make slightly more then he. We have 3 kids of our own together. Right now we share 50/50 of his 10Y old SD from previous, and have no CS support order. We think the BM will file for full custody when she turns 12, and start asking for CS.

Realistically do they calculate my income into the formula?? Because they have asked for my W-forms many times in the past. Plus they look at our taxes which show our incomes combined?

Also, his ex has 2 masters degrees and 2 bachelors degrees, but hasn't worked in over 3 year?. Does that go against him since her average income in none? (Incase you were wondering, her mother has been paying her rent and car, and living expenses, along with help from student loans)

Any know, I have no idea.

hi Ref,

My step daughter whom we have enjoyed 50/50 shared parenting for 9 years, and prior to that my husband was her sole caregivier. When we married mom came around to gain legal custody, and being the mom, although previoulsy uninvolved she was able to gain 50/50.

During those years she has been working hard on destroying the relationships with my SD and her entire fathers side. Grandparents, cousins, neighbors, half-siblings.

We have been in court numerous times with mom trying to gain sole (at least 5 battles) This last battle the courts flat out told her they will never change give her sole.

But the PAS has gone to the extreme, SD has not told daddy she no longer wants to see us. She had a long list of bogus reasons. her mom always fills her mind with dreadful things about us. WE are a normal family of 6, and she is not an only child in our home, and it is different then at moms, where she is the princess.

Anyways now it being HER stating how miserable and hating us, my hubby is considering letting go.

It has been so much work  fighting to have her in our life and to keep her happy. We all walk on egg-shells to make sure she is happy in our home, and nothing seems to work. THe PAS is too impactful.

I know it seems whimpy to let go, but for our sanity, and from what it seems we are "torturing her" by  making her see us.

I noticed you said you were a product of PAS. At what point do you think she might be aware she is PAS'd?  Or are her feelings real towards us. (Even though we can tell her mom put words in her mouth)

In a way we feel ready to give in and let go, but are afraid it will get twisted into we cut her out, instead of what it is. But we have given it our all.  In fact the ball (legally) is in our court right now. The GAL and the appointed counselor state that she should be with teh dad cause mom was mentally abuse. But it would still be a long and hard haul to get sole, and if she doesn't want to be with us, why should we??

I'm only asking you cause I would be very intersted in knowing what someone who has been through it personally, would feel.

What we would like to know is does our SD really want us to let go? She said she is tired of the fighting....

My SD is gaining weight quick. She is age 10 and 110 pounds. You can't notice it much, but if not addressed it may develope into a weight problem. My DH addressed the issue with EX, and she said she would "grow into" her weight. But she is at the age of approaching puberty soon, and may get  worse.

She seems to go out to dinner a lot, eat school lunches, and her grand-dad (from ex) takes her to pastry shop after school and she gets 2-3 pastries!!

It seems out of our control since it's a 50/50 plan, and no one recognizes the problem.

If we practice good eating on our time, it gets und-one on mothers time.

Can you discuss together what dates you want? ztell you have a vacation planned for such and such, and would likeher to join you? etc.

No, it's not up the child to choose, I would think the order states some specifics about when and how long etc.

Don't mention it. :-)

Very interesting. I love the polygraph idea. Fresh idea tha tI never heard of.

Having the recorded calls in the parenting order is good as well. Afterall you can have anything in the order, it's up to the parents.

Reading these posts is somewhat comforting to know that they might "brun-out" or give up on us as a source.

For now, she is a constant thorn in our side, and constantly tormenting and alienating my SD from (mostly me) our entire family. Even the grandparents. Problem is she has her mother as an enabler. She supports her financially, pays her apartment, car, bills, and she lives in the nicest area. She has been a student for years with MBA, and 2 bachelor degrees, and no job for 3 years and counting.

Yet to the world, and court she is somehow able to portray herself as having it together, responsible,organized and intellegent, as she is well spoken (unless you listen real close it usually makes no sense) But her words are large and she speaks fast to throw you off. She writes the same way, very condescending...

However she has her mother get her daughter (my SD) ready for school in the mornings because she can't get out of bed herself. (Sleeps alot). She doesnt work, but is never home for her daughter. She dumps all the homework projects on us. My not tending to them on her time and when she is with us it is due to turn it, and we are stuck scrambling to help her get it done.

Then she has the nerve to publicly demean us in the schools, and report to people that our home is "sub-standard", and we have no structure, and we are irresponsible and loose things. Funny part about it is, the stuff she accuses us for is stuff she is 20 times worse at. We are always picking up the slack.

But if we confront her ablout anything it only intensifies teh situation, so we ignore everything and hope she gets no "fue0, of foodl" to feed her source.

She is able to manipulate any situation to suit her needs. Any.

I hope it does tire and wear soon. I keep hoping she will get pregnant by someone and go away.

But for now we can't distance, we have to deal with her, and we hope by ignoring we are doing the right thing.

Here are the 9 criteria (according to the DSM IV)
Having 5 of these 9 "qualifies" you as a narcissist...

1)Feels grandiose and self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents to the point of lying, demands to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

2) Is obsessed with fantasies of unlimited success, fame, fearsome power or omnipotence, unequalled brilliance (the cerebral narcissist), bodily beauty or sexual performance (the somatic narcissist), or ideal, everlasting, all-conquering love or passion

3) Firmly convinced that he or she is unique and, being special, can only be understood by, should only be treated by, or associate with, other special or unique, or high-status people (or institutions)

4) Requires excessive admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation - or, failing that, wishes to be feared and to be notorious (narcissistic supply).

5) Feels entitled. Expects unreasonable or special and favourable priority treatment. Demands automatic and full compliance with his or her expectations

6) Is "interpersonally exploitative", i.e., uses others to achieve his or her own ends

7) Devoid of empathy. Is unable or unwilling to identify with or acknowledge the feelings and needs of others

8)Constantly envious of others or believes that they feel the same about him or her

9) Arrogant, haughty behaviours or attitudes coupled with rage when frustrated, contradicted, or confronted.

I am a step-mom to a ten year old, and we have been dealing with the programming (PAS) sicne age 4. Mother was out of the picture prior to then. But when she decided to become a parent she had a littany of cutdowns and critacisim about my husbands ability to parent.

My husband is teh most loving unconditional caring father that I know, and the bonds are still thee but we can tell where they are headed. She leads the child to believe she will catch colds in our home, and we are unable to care forher, after visits with her mom her (our) clothes are often changed, because they made her itchy or too hot, too cold– Never good enough.

The list goes on and on. Soon she will be age 12 and we know what that means. Her mother has been preparing her to get infront of the judge and say she prefers her moms house. We will be out of the picture.

Funny part is when her mother has her at her house, she is never home. She leaves her home alone or leaves her with a grandparent. It's as if it's a fight over power and nothing more. I can't help but feel she doenst really care about her daughter.

She removes handouts, teacher notes, and homework information from the bookbag,  before the father picks her up for his parenting time, and tries to keep him out of the school loop. We have tried to put envelopes in the book bag to facilitate exchange of assignments. But it gets tossed. She goes out of her way to bring back the school folder she removed from teh back, to return it to the school, so the father can not get his hands on anything from her school. Grade ccards, graded homework, school pictures etc.

It's unreal.

I can do nothing about it, sicne I am only a step-parent.