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Police Report and 911 Calls.Cell Phone Harassment, & ACS Call, etc

Started by HzlEyez, Apr 04, 2007, 08:12:33 PM

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HzlEyez

Good Evening,

I am emailing here because, hopefully someone can assist me and my boyfriend in guiding us.  We currently reside in NYS.  We want to know is there a way to obtain the records to each of these incidents without subpoenas from the court to show the court evidence that my boyfriend's baby mother is harassing us and hopefully it can help my boyfriend to obtain full custody of his child.
It all started in Nov 2006, my boyfriend, my child and I were at home. We had just arrived from work and from picking up my child.  There was a knock on the door.  I inquired who it was an it was ACS. They were here b/c an anonymous call had been placed against me and my boyfriend alleging that I use drugs and abuse my child.  Also alleging my boyfriend abuses my child.  We went through the process and the case was closed due to it being unfounded.  Now the thing is after the case was closed we obtained the report but, it doesn't provide the caller information.  I want to know is there a way to obtain that information without a court subpoena to prove to the court that our suspicion of either the baby mother or a friend of the baby mother is where the call came from?
The next incident happened in December 2006 during the scheduled pick up of my boyfriends child at a court appointed public place.  The child's mother and the child's grandmother followed my boyfriend to where he had parked his jeep a block away.  As they both got close to the jeep the child's grandmother started using obsence language towards me.  My boyfriend heard what the child's grandmother was saying and so, he finished buckling up his daughter and closed the door to his jeep.  He than proceeded to state to the child's grandmother, "what is the problem?"  I immediately started dialing 911.  The child's grandmother charged towards the curbside and started yelling how my boyfriend had violated the court order by bringing me to the curbside of her daughter's residence.  Now my boyfriends court order doesn't state that he can't be accompanied by anyone to the scheduled pick up at the curbside.  The court denies anyone being present at the court appointed public place.  The court order visitation states the following: Pick-up and return at public place.  Friday pick up curbside at the mother's home.  No one to be present except parents at public place.  My boyfriend if I accompany him to the pick up and drop off parks his jeep a block away where I can have a visual of him.
My boyfriend informed the grandmother that if anyone was violating the court order was her own child for having brought her to the scheduled pick up at the public place.  The child's grandmother than told my boyfriend that no court was going to tell her that she couldn't accompany her child to the public place.  The child's mother than took out the court papers and stated,"these court papers, the court can kiss my ass?"  The child's mother and the grandmother eventually left and my boyfriend and I waited for the police.  My boyfriend filed a report against both of them.  That same night when he brought his child to the scheduled drop off the child's mother started screaming at him,"you have nothing to say now, where's your bitch?"  I was a parked in the jeep a block away.  My boyfriend turned and walked away from her.  Next thing the child's grandmother charges towards my boyfriend.  My boyfriend then back's into the street.  She than starts screaming to my boyfriend,"Hit me now."  My boyfriend told the child's grandmother,"look at how ridiculous you look in front of your grandchild."  The child's grandmother than stated to my boyfriend,"you don't care about your child."  My boyfriend replied,"I don't worry I leave it to the court."  He than walked away.  My boyfriend came to the jeep and told me what had happened.  We didn't call the police this time we just left.  As my boyfriend was driving his cell phone rang. I answered it.  It was the child's mother.  She than started to say,"Hi Bitch."  I stood quiet.  The child's grandmother than stated,"Can't say anything scaredy cat."  I stood quiet. She hung up the phone.  
We were at my apartment when I received a restricted call on my cell phone.  All I recall the person saying,"Bitch,"and hung up.
Can we possibly obtain video from the public place where these incident's occurred without a court order?  As far as the call's is there a way to request from the cell phone companies a trace of the call's that came into our cell phone's for those two incidents without a court subpoena?  My boyfriend obtained a temporary order of protection against the child's mother and the child's grandmother for these incidents.
In January I went to court and I informed them of the incident all they offered me was the opportunity to come to mediation with both parties: child's mother and grandmother.  I went to the scheduled mediation but, neither of them showed up.  Being that the mediation is voluntary is there something I could obtain from the mediation center that my boyfriend could submit to the court to show that I did this.
In January my boyfriend had the child's mother arrested for violation of the temporary order of protection but, after this happened she started harassing me.  
On February 2006 I received an email supposedly from my boyfriend stating that he was messing around with a bestfriend of his that happens to be a female.  Please note me and his bestfriend who is a female get along and my boyfriend doesn't have a relationship except friendship with the girl.  Anyway supposedly my boyfriend sent it to me by mistake is what the email was to come across as.  Is there a way to make the company where the email came from look into finding out where the email originated from? We are hoping it leads back to the child's mother or one of her friends.  The only thing is there a way to obtain this without any court order?
Approximately two days later the child's mother came from behind where the jeep was parked and as she got in front of the jeep she turned around and started doing obsence gestures towards me.  I was sitting alone in the jeep because, my boyfriend was waiting for the child's mother at the public place.  I dialed 911 immediately and reported the incident.  When my boyfriend returned to the jeep he found out about the incident.  My boyfriend was upset that that had occurred while in his absence.  The police arrived and I filed a report.  
I then went on Monday to the criminal court to see what options could be offered to me.  Once again I was only offered mediation and I informed the clerk that the last time I was offered the same option and she never showed up.  I than left the court.
About two weeks later I accompanied my boyfriend to a scheduled parenting time to the curbside of the residence and the child's mother came downstairs and took a picture of me from the curbside.  I called 911.  When the police arrived they told me that that wasn't harassment.  I then did research and upon my investigation it clearly based on the NYS Law's it was a part of harassment. I went to the local precinct in the city where the incident had occurred and I explained to the police officer the incident and he told me that taking a picture in a public place is not harassment. I explained to him their is no reason for it and it is annoying.  He then told me to file the report.  I filed it.  Is there a way for us to obtain the police report to any of these incidents and also the 911 call's without any court order's so, when my boyfriend returns to court he can use the information as evidence against her?
So, as you can see my boyfriend and I have had alot to endure from his baby mother and I keep hoping things will get better but, my boyfriend tells me not to expect it.
Please note any help in guiding us legally on how to proceed to these matters would be appreciated.
Thank you



mistoffolees

First, please try to keep your post to just the relevant issues - there's a lot to wade through here, and 90% is irrelevant. A number of items:

1. No, you can't legally obtain their phone records without a subpoena. And you'll need a pretty good reason why you need to have them to get a subpoena.

2. The policeman is right. It's perfectly legal for someone to take pictures in a public place. They don't need to have a reason for it. Similarly, it's perfectly legal to take videos in a public place. You don't need a court order.

3. While making obscene gestures at you is rude, it's not illegal that I'm aware of. Calling 911 because someone made an obscene gesture makes you look childish.

4. If she's calling and harrassing you on the phone, you can probably record the conversation without a court order (this depends on the laws in your state, so you'll have to look it up). In my state, as long as one party in the conversation agrees and there are no children on the line, it's legal to tape without informing the other person(s).

5. No, you can't obtain the name of your accuser. The law protects people who make accusations of child abuse.

My biggest advice is to learn to chill out. Your BF's ex doesn't like you. Big deal. She calls you names. Big deal. She makes obscene gestures. Big deal. She took your picture. Big deal. You'll be a lot happier if you learn to ignore all these little affronts. Does it really matter if your BF's ex flips you the bird once in a while? If you keep calling 911, she's going to keep doing it because it makes you look like a whiner. Eventually the police will stop responding to your calls. If you ignore her, she'll get tired of doing it and stop.

The only one that I'd be concerned about is the email "from your BF". If you saved the email, open it and then in your email program find the command for 'view headers' or 'long headers' or something like that. Once you have all the header information, print it out and take it to someone who is familiar with email. They can possibly help you figure out where it came from. If it's from your BF, then he and your friend are lying. If it's not, then someone is pretending to be him which is a crime.

HelpingHands

Wow, dejavue...

1. Get a small tape recorder and record ALL conversations between him and the ex in person(he can wear it in his pocket) (make sure you are legally allowed to of course) //www.rdfp.org/taping Check out the laws on recording calls on the phone as well - Radio Shack sells in-line recorders and other equipment.

2. You can get copies of all YOUR inbound and outbound calls from your cell company. I believe even if it's blocked, it will show on the phone record. Block her number from your cell phone.

3. Smile and say nothing. They WANT your reaction so they can say that YOU are harrassing them by being at the drop off/pick up location. Their whole goal is to cause a hostile environment and if you bring it up in front of a judge, the judge will ask: So what business do you have in being at the P/u or D/o location? Is he not mature enough to do this himself? And specifically order you are NOT to be there since obviously your presence(and grandmas) is causing a scene.

4. Why is the grandmother a part of this situation (nobody allowed at d/o p/u) and why hasn't your boyfriend brought it before the courts? He needs to address that issue ASAP.

5. Have your boyfriend transcribe the tapes into a journal after every exchange. It will refresh your memory of everything that has happened and when it comes court time- your recollection of events will be sharp, with specific dates, times, persons involved, etc.

Sherry1

pick ups/drop offs?  if you are along for the ride, have your BF drop you off at a fast food place or something until it is done.  Even though what she is doing is wrong, it seems you not going would calm things down somewhat.

HzlEyez

Hi,

Thank you for the information and your advice.  Your advice will be taken into consideration.

Thank you

HzlEyez

Hi,

Thank you for your input & advice.  It will be taken into consideration.

Thank you

HzlEyez

Hi,

Thank you for your input and your advice.  It will be taken into consideration.

Thank you

HzlEyez

Good Evening,

I am emailing here because, hopefully someone can assist me and my boyfriend in guiding us.  We currently reside in NYS.  We want to know is there a way to obtain the records to each of these incidents without subpoenas from the court to show the court evidence that my boyfriend's baby mother is harassing us and hopefully it can help my boyfriend to obtain full custody of his child.
It all started in Nov 2006, my boyfriend, my child and I were at home. We had just arrived from work and from picking up my child.  There was a knock on the door.  I inquired who it was an it was ACS. They were here b/c an anonymous call had been placed against me and my boyfriend alleging that I use drugs and abuse my child.  Also alleging my boyfriend abuses my child.  We went through the process and the case was closed due to it being unfounded.  Now the thing is after the case was closed we obtained the report but, it doesn't provide the caller information.  I want to know is there a way to obtain that information without a court subpoena to prove to the court that our suspicion of either the baby mother or a friend of the baby mother is where the call came from?
The next incident happened in December 2006 during the scheduled pick up of my boyfriends child at a court appointed public place.  The child's mother and the child's grandmother followed my boyfriend to where he had parked his jeep a block away.  As they both got close to the jeep the child's grandmother started using obsence language towards me.  My boyfriend heard what the child's grandmother was saying and so, he finished buckling up his daughter and closed the door to his jeep.  He than proceeded to state to the child's grandmother, "what is the problem?"  I immediately started dialing 911.  The child's grandmother charged towards the curbside and started yelling how my boyfriend had violated the court order by bringing me to the curbside of her daughter's residence.  Now my boyfriends court order doesn't state that he can't be accompanied by anyone to the scheduled pick up at the curbside.  The court denies anyone being present at the court appointed public place.  The court order visitation states the following: Pick-up and return at public place.  Friday pick up curbside at the mother's home.  No one to be present except parents at public place.  My boyfriend if I accompany him to the pick up and drop off parks his jeep a block away where I can have a visual of him.
My boyfriend informed the grandmother that if anyone was violating the court order was her own child for having brought her to the scheduled pick up at the public place.  The child's grandmother than told my boyfriend that no court was going to tell her that she couldn't accompany her child to the public place.  The child's mother than took out the court papers and stated,"these court papers, the court can kiss my ass?"  The child's mother and the grandmother eventually left and my boyfriend and I waited for the police.  My boyfriend filed a report against both of them.  That same night when he brought his child to the scheduled drop off the child's mother started screaming at him,"you have nothing to say now, where's your bitch?"  I was a parked in the jeep a block away.  My boyfriend turned and walked away from her.  Next thing the child's grandmother charges towards my boyfriend.  My boyfriend then back's into the street.  She than starts screaming to my boyfriend,"Hit me now."  My boyfriend told the child's grandmother,"look at how ridiculous you look in front of your grandchild."  The child's grandmother than stated to my boyfriend,"you don't care about your child."  My boyfriend replied,"I don't worry I leave it to the court."  He than walked away.  My boyfriend came to the jeep and told me what had happened.  We didn't call the police this time we just left.  As my boyfriend was driving his cell phone rang. I answered it.  It was the child's mother.  She than started to say,"Hi Bitch."  I stood quiet.  The child's grandmother than stated,"Can't say anything scaredy cat."  I stood quiet. She hung up the phone.  
We were at my apartment when I received a restricted call on my cell phone.  All I recall the person saying,"Bitch,"and hung up.
Can we possibly obtain video from the public place where these incident's occurred without a court order?  As far as the call's is there a way to request from the cell phone companies a trace of the call's that came into our cell phone's for those two incidents without a court subpoena?  My boyfriend obtained a temporary order of protection against the child's mother and the child's grandmother for these incidents.
In January I went to court and I informed them of the incident all they offered me was the opportunity to come to mediation with both parties: child's mother and grandmother.  I went to the scheduled mediation but, neither of them showed up.  Being that the mediation is voluntary is there something I could obtain from the mediation center that my boyfriend could submit to the court to show that I did this.
In January my boyfriend had the child's mother arrested for violation of the temporary order of protection but, after this happened she started harassing me.  
On February 2006 I received an email supposedly from my boyfriend stating that he was messing around with a bestfriend of his that happens to be a female.  Please note me and his bestfriend who is a female get along and my boyfriend doesn't have a relationship except friendship with the girl.  Anyway supposedly my boyfriend sent it to me by mistake is what the email was to come across as.  Is there a way to make the company where the email came from look into finding out where the email originated from? We are hoping it leads back to the child's mother or one of her friends.  The only thing is there a way to obtain this without any court order?
Approximately two days later the child's mother came from behind where the jeep was parked and as she got in front of the jeep she turned around and started doing obsence gestures towards me.  I was sitting alone in the jeep because, my boyfriend was waiting for the child's mother at the public place.  I dialed 911 immediately and reported the incident.  When my boyfriend returned to the jeep he found out about the incident.  My boyfriend was upset that that had occurred while in his absence.  The police arrived and I filed a report.  
I then went on Monday to the criminal court to see what options could be offered to me.  Once again I was only offered mediation and I informed the clerk that the last time I was offered the same option and she never showed up.  I than left the court.
About two weeks later I accompanied my boyfriend to a scheduled parenting time to the curbside of the residence and the child's mother came downstairs and took a picture of me from the curbside.  I called 911.  When the police arrived they told me that that wasn't harassment.  I then did research and upon my investigation it clearly based on the NYS Law's it was a part of harassment. I went to the local precinct in the city where the incident had occurred and I explained to the police officer the incident and he told me that taking a picture in a public place is not harassment. I explained to him their is no reason for it and it is annoying.  He then told me to file the report.  I filed it.  Is there a way for us to obtain the police report to any of these incidents and also the 911 call's without any court order's so, when my boyfriend returns to court he can use the information as evidence against her?
So, as you can see my boyfriend and I have had alot to endure from his baby mother and I keep hoping things will get better but, my boyfriend tells me not to expect it.
Please note any help in guiding us legally on how to proceed to these matters would be appreciated.
Thank you



mistoffolees

First, please try to keep your post to just the relevant issues - there's a lot to wade through here, and 90% is irrelevant. A number of items:

1. No, you can't legally obtain their phone records without a subpoena. And you'll need a pretty good reason why you need to have them to get a subpoena.

2. The policeman is right. It's perfectly legal for someone to take pictures in a public place. They don't need to have a reason for it. Similarly, it's perfectly legal to take videos in a public place. You don't need a court order.

3. While making obscene gestures at you is rude, it's not illegal that I'm aware of. Calling 911 because someone made an obscene gesture makes you look childish.

4. If she's calling and harrassing you on the phone, you can probably record the conversation without a court order (this depends on the laws in your state, so you'll have to look it up). In my state, as long as one party in the conversation agrees and there are no children on the line, it's legal to tape without informing the other person(s).

5. No, you can't obtain the name of your accuser. The law protects people who make accusations of child abuse.

My biggest advice is to learn to chill out. Your BF's ex doesn't like you. Big deal. She calls you names. Big deal. She makes obscene gestures. Big deal. She took your picture. Big deal. You'll be a lot happier if you learn to ignore all these little affronts. Does it really matter if your BF's ex flips you the bird once in a while? If you keep calling 911, she's going to keep doing it because it makes you look like a whiner. Eventually the police will stop responding to your calls. If you ignore her, she'll get tired of doing it and stop.

The only one that I'd be concerned about is the email "from your BF". If you saved the email, open it and then in your email program find the command for 'view headers' or 'long headers' or something like that. Once you have all the header information, print it out and take it to someone who is familiar with email. They can possibly help you figure out where it came from. If it's from your BF, then he and your friend are lying. If it's not, then someone is pretending to be him which is a crime.

HelpingHands

Wow, dejavue...

1. Get a small tape recorder and record ALL conversations between him and the ex in person(he can wear it in his pocket) (make sure you are legally allowed to of course) //www.rdfp.org/taping Check out the laws on recording calls on the phone as well - Radio Shack sells in-line recorders and other equipment.

2. You can get copies of all YOUR inbound and outbound calls from your cell company. I believe even if it's blocked, it will show on the phone record. Block her number from your cell phone.

3. Smile and say nothing. They WANT your reaction so they can say that YOU are harrassing them by being at the drop off/pick up location. Their whole goal is to cause a hostile environment and if you bring it up in front of a judge, the judge will ask: So what business do you have in being at the P/u or D/o location? Is he not mature enough to do this himself? And specifically order you are NOT to be there since obviously your presence(and grandmas) is causing a scene.

4. Why is the grandmother a part of this situation (nobody allowed at d/o p/u) and why hasn't your boyfriend brought it before the courts? He needs to address that issue ASAP.

5. Have your boyfriend transcribe the tapes into a journal after every exchange. It will refresh your memory of everything that has happened and when it comes court time- your recollection of events will be sharp, with specific dates, times, persons involved, etc.

Sherry1

pick ups/drop offs?  if you are along for the ride, have your BF drop you off at a fast food place or something until it is done.  Even though what she is doing is wrong, it seems you not going would calm things down somewhat.

HzlEyez

Hi,

Thank you for the information and your advice.  Your advice will be taken into consideration.

Thank you

HzlEyez

Hi,

Thank you for your input & advice.  It will be taken into consideration.

Thank you

HzlEyez

Hi,

Thank you for your input and your advice.  It will be taken into consideration.

Thank you

wysiwyg

if the reason you go is for witness issues, (trust me we have all done this) perhaps not going would calm things, however a point to consider is purchasing a digital voice recorder, so that your BF can record the pick ups and drop offs and have something to work for him in the event it is necessary.

williaer

Yes- I'm kind of wondering why you feel it necessary to accompany him at all. If she assults him- he can call 911- he's clearly capapble. You know it is just steaming her to see you...clearly the court was attempting to make this all a peacful process for the child by SPECIFICALLY limiting who was to be present. Please remember that this is not about you and not about your BF....it is ONLY about the happiness and health of this child that they share.

You aren't doing anyone any favors by filing reports and whining to the cops...stay out of it- your life will be so much better.

I have been in your shoes. I just quit going with him. 9 years later- she and I have a cordial relationship. Give this all time to simmer down.

backwardsbike

I am so sorry you are going thru this.  its a huge pain in the butt, but not illegal.  And unfortunately will not get him sole custody, IMHO- I'm not a laywer and this is not legal advice.  But Ihave been where you are.

Its a tough spot. But until these crazy people do somehting that actaully harms the child in some way you can prove- its just not gonna matter.

My lawyer told me," Its nto against he law to make an *arse* of yourself" and she was so right.  I've spent nine years fighting custody. My X who is Cp has neglected the kids medically more time than I can count.  They wear shoes with holes the size of golf balls even though I pay him support and he makes 70K a year.  He neglects thier edcuation but somehow they pullit out at the last second and apss by the skin of thier teeth.  Ihave beent o court so soften that when I decided to retun to grad school I actaully considered law school.  I decided against ti because I just can't lie or protect people who do.  None of my trips to court made any difference and I'd have doen well to just save the money and bought a boat- I like to fish.

Once custody is estabilsihed its very hard to change.  Your BF needs to start documenting all this.  You can get excellent advice in the article section of this site.  he needs to be on a good bassi withhis child's doctor, daycare provider,s chool and teachers.  When she gets into activites he needs to support them, get involved adn get to know the leaders.  Eventually, if his X is this much as a jerk her true colors will show adn he will have evidence that will matter adn al important witnesses.  Oh and he should start savign for a lawyer and a custody eval ( around 20K at least) because it sounds like he'll need to keep what he has.

If you choose to stay with him know that you are looking at what your life will be like.  Do not bow to this womens demands but do not be adversarial either.  Be a support to your boyfriend as much as you can and find your own network of support becasue its not an easy life.  

My Dh could tell you some horror stories.  he's been accused of everythign BUT sexual abuse.  We have been twice investigated by CYS- unfounded both times.  We knew each time it was X turning us in and as soon as we told the investigators that we knew they backed off casue we were rigtht although they can't confirm it.  it pays to get them on your side.  Never be adversarial with them.  We have been thru two custody evals on top of everything else adn we bothhad to have spuychologicals too!  Not fun.  However, we both passed everyhting all the way around.

HzlEyez

I appreciate your story because, it allow's me to know that I am not alone in this because, that is how I felt.  Not that I am gloating at what you yourself or your partner have had to endure but, it's great to hear stories of similarity from other individuals.

Thank you

HzlEyez

Hi,

I appreciate your advice and I will let my BF know.  
The only thing is I believe that recording in NYS is illegal unless you obtain the consent of the individual you are attempting to record but, I could be wrong.  If you know where I could find out information regarding such matter I would appreciate it.

Thank you

HzlEyez

I know he is capable of handling himself if he needs to.  
I have stopped going to the pick up and drop offs because, my BF feels if I refuse to go all the way and just stay in the public place to please her than I shouldn't go.  My BF say's their relationship is over and it's going to be two years soon and she needs to move on with her life.  My BF say's he is no longer her property.  My BF also hates having to explain to his child everytime she ask,"why I no longer come to the pick up or drop offs, when his child tell's him that she likes for me to come along?  
Honestly, I don't ever see me and his ex being cordial.  She is a liar and a very ugly person inside for all of her actions she has done against me and my BF.

wysiwyg

I know there are laws re: phone recording, but not sure about person to person. HOWEVER, if there is such a law re: person to person, then why not tell your BF to purchase one and when she starts to mouth off, tell him to take it out of his pocket - hold it up adn tell her - "I am recording this".  It will do 2 things, one give her the knowledge that she is being recorded, and 2.. to either shutup or continue to shout.  In either case it can work to his benefit.  

mistoffolees

>Hi,
>
>I appreciate your advice and I will let my BF know.  
>The only thing is I believe that recording in NYS is illegal
>unless you obtain the consent of the individual you are
>attempting to record but, I could be wrong.  If you know where
>I could find out information regarding such matter I would
>appreciate it.
>
>Thank you

I'm not familiar with the laws in your state. Try a google search. In my state, it's legal to record the other side without telling them. That obviously varies from state to state.

notnew

There is an article on this site that gives recording laws for each state. I am not sure exactly where it is located.

I can tell you that my ex was hostile and I carried a hand held recorder and recorded a confrontation between her and I that resulted in her attacking me when my back was turned.

Result? I got charged with assault and my charges against her were dropped. I was on probation for a short time too.

The recording was deemed inadmissable because she was on the telephone and the recording picked up her conversation which was construed to be an illegal wiretap. Crock of sh*t in my opinion.

Result from all of this? I insisted on exchanges at a police station and my wife comes with me a majority of the time.

This has greatly reduced conflict and my ex's hostile actions.

If I were  your BF, I would insist on exchanges at a public place such as a police station. It reduces the chances of problems.

While I can see that your presence at this time is obviously inflaming the ex to greater hostility, I can see that there may be a benefit of you not coming and a down side. She is going to have to learn to accept that you are part of the picture eventually. It can't be avoided forever.

I feel that if he can get the exchange designated as a police station, then whether you are there or not won't make a difference.

BTW - the court cannot specifically ORDER you or anyone else to comply with anything as you are not a party to the case and not subject to their jurisdiction.

The order saying they are not allowed to bring anyone is potentially dangerous for both of them. I would suggest that he ask for the order to say they have to be at a public place and YOU stay in the car. This way, you aren't "present" at the exchange, but there. He can stipulate that the child must be brought inside and the exchange take place inside. That way, they have witnesses who are at the public location who will keep her calm and you are not "in her face".

Good luck. It doesn't get any easier over time with most of these types of hostile people.

mistoffolees

>There is an article on this site that gives recording laws
>for each state. I am not sure exactly where it is located.
>
>I can tell you that my ex was hostile and I carried a hand
>held recorder and recorded a confrontation between her and I
>that resulted in her attacking me when my back was turned.
>
>Result? I got charged with assault and my charges against her
>were dropped. I was on probation for a short time too.

That seems odd - unless there's something else that we haven't heard.

>
>The recording was deemed inadmissable because she was on the
>telephone and the recording picked up her conversation which
>was construed to be an illegal wiretap. Crock of sh*t in my
>opinion.

The law is what it is. In fact, you were entitled to record her conversation with you, but not her conversation with another person (at least not without her consent). That's exactly the way the law reads and they did the right thing.

Granted, it's frustrating when your evidence gets thrown out on the basis of what you consider a technicality, but the law is all about technicalities. That's how our rights are protected.

>
>Result from all of this? I insisted on exchanges at a police
>station and my wife comes with me a majority of the time.
>
>This has greatly reduced conflict and my ex's hostile actions.
>
>
>If I were  your BF, I would insist on exchanges at a public
>place such as a police station. It reduces the chances of
>problems.

I think this is a better solution than asking the GF to not come to exchanges. The BF is entitled to have anyone he wants there and I don't like the suggestion that the GF should let the ex control her presence - even to avoid an argument. If they go to the police station for exchanges, they'll accomplish the same result - without letting the ex control the situation.

>
>BTW - the court cannot specifically ORDER you or anyone else
>to comply with anything as you are not a party to the case and
>not subject to their jurisdiction.

No, but they COULD order that the parents not have anyone else there for the exchange.

That would be a stupid order IMHO, but it could be done.

>
>The order saying they are not allowed to bring anyone is
>potentially dangerous for both of them. I would suggest that
>he ask for the order to say they have to be at a public place
>and YOU stay in the car. This way, you aren't "present" at the
>exchange, but there. He can stipulate that the child must be
>brought inside and the exchange take place inside. That way,
>they have witnesses who are at the public location who will
>keep her calm and you are not "in her face".

That is a far better solution.

notnew

Mist,

Regarding recording the phone conversation. Yes, a technicality I agree. Protecting my rights? In another setting, yes, but in this, protecting BM's right to be herself and violate my rights as a father.

It almost seems contrived and that her lawyer thought to cover all the bases in advance. This was about getting a protective order making me unable to see my child which did not happen.

Had I really been kidnapping my child and beating the hell out of my ex as they alleged, don't you think the person she was talking to would have called 911 or BM herself instead of carrying on a chatty conversation up until the point of the assault?

There is a lot more to this story, but it is water under the bridge. she used the system and it worked for her. An abuse of the recourse set up for REAL abused persons. However, I AM not an admitted domestic abuser and there is no record of domestic abuse on me and I did not have to attend anger management classes. It is a simple assault. I did get the better of some of what was going on.

My attorney at the time was a POS and my attorney for the assault failed to recognize what was really happening and didn't pursue the case properly. My fault for not being as educated about the system as I am now. This is why I advise early action in hostile situations. The faster you move to expose the truth, the better. The longer you wait, the better opposition covers it up and the more time they have to do so.

My attorney and opposing counsel agreed in the hallway to drop charges against both parties in the hearing. In the actual hearing, after my attorney dropped charges, hers didn't.

Anyway, all history as I said.

Fact of the matter is that recording isn't always a sure fire way to protect yourself.

Fact is that going a different route as I suggessted and you agreed is a better way to go is probably the best route to pursue.

I sure do wish I had more promising experiences to relay!

HzlEyez

Hi,

Thank you for that idea I will tell my BF to consider the idea.


HzlEyez

Hi

Well my boyfriend wants it to be at the local precinct because, he states the same thing that it will control her from doing anything that she isn't suppose to.  
I honestly don't believe that it will stop her in anyway because, the court hasn't done anything to her that is much of an impact to her that will get the message accross to her that you have to obey the law.  She thinks the law is a joke is what I perceive from her.

The order states that no one is to be present at the public place where the pick up and drop off is taking place.  I have never gone to the public place with my BF.  My BF has always parked his car a block away from the public place. The only thing is he makes sure I have a visual of him and that is it.  
What I did when she did the first incident in December in the presence of her daughter and my daughter.  I went to court and scheduled for mediation which she didn't even show up for.  So, since I did show up for the mediation I did have a one on one mediation and I explained to the mediator what has been happening that brought me to consider mediation with her.  The mediator after listening recommended that if I am accompanying my BF to the pick up and drop off that my BF should continue to park the car a block away as he has been doing and she also recommended that if she acts up as she has been doing to call the police and report her.  She told me to keep the reports and give them to my boyfriend so, that when he went to court he can show the judge what exactly the child's mother has been doing.
I honestly don't believe in the court system because, my BF has been there so many times and each time it has only been a verbal warning to the child's mother and so, I believe it is because, of this that she takes the court system as a joke.
 

Jade

>Hi
>
>Well my boyfriend wants it to be at the local precinct
>because, he states the same thing that it will control her
>from doing anything that she isn't suppose to.  
>I honestly don't believe that it will stop her in anyway
>because, the court hasn't done anything to her that is much of
>an impact to her that will get the message accross to her that
>you have to obey the law.  She thinks the law is a joke is
>what I perceive from her.
>
>The order states that no one is to be present at the public
>place where the pick up and drop off is taking place.  I have
>never gone to the public place with my BF.  My BF has always
>parked his car a block away from the public place. The only
>thing is he makes sure I have a visual of him and that is it.
>
>What I did when she did the first incident in December in the
>presence of her daughter and my daughter.  I went to court and
>scheduled for mediation which she didn't even show up for.
>So, since I did show up for the mediation I did have a one on
>one mediation and I explained to the mediator what has been
>happening that brought me to consider mediation with her.  The
>mediator after listening recommended that if I am accompanying
>my BF to the pick up and drop off that my BF should continue
>to park the car a block away as he has been doing and she also
>recommended that if she acts up as she has been doing to call
>the police and report her.  She told me to keep the reports
>and give them to my boyfriend so, that when he went to court
>he can show the judge what exactly the child's mother has been
>doing.
>I honestly don't believe in the court system because, my BF
>has been there so many times and each time it has only been a
>verbal warning to the child's mother and so, I believe it is
>because, of this that she takes the court system as a joke.
>

If you can see your boyfriend, his ex can see you.  

The court order states that no one else is supposed to be there.  Seems to me that you are part of the problem by insisting on going.  

And, technically, the mother may be able to file contempt of court charges against your boyfriend since he is going against the court order by bringing someone with him (even if you are parked a block away).  

wysiwyg

in all actuality the court might take your sentiments of not being there but being a block away as a way to mock the courts original order and could get PO'd enough to make a really harsh order.  Sorry if this offends you, but we have been in he system for 14 years.  Let me give you an example of what I mean, BM did not list BF as the childs father on school records, the court asked BM why not, she said "becasue the form did not ask specifically for father, it says parent/guardian".  She got slapped with mulitple contempts and fined $1,500 for that comment and thinking.

HzlEyez

I am sorry I need to state what the order states specifically so, you can understand.

"Pick up and return at Dunkin Donuts.  Friday pick-up curbside at mother's home.  No one to be present except parents at Dunkin Donuts.  Holiday visitation11am-7pm pick up and return curbside at the mother's home.
So, when you state that the mother can file a contempt of court charges against my boyfriend your information is inccorect b/c at no moment does it state that no one could not accompany my BF to the pick up and drop off at the curbside of the mother's home.  The only place that no one can accompany my BF to is the Dunkin Donuts so, me accompanying him and staying a block away is in no way a matter of contempt against my BF.  
Furthermore, my BF has even has inquired to judges and lawyers and they have all agreed that my BF is in no way violating the court order.  Now my BF has told these same individuals how the child's mother is in contempt of the court order b/c she has brought her sister, her mother, her neighbor to the Dunkin Donuts and they have been physically at the Dunkin Donuts.

Jade

>I am sorry I need to state what the order states specifically
>so, you can understand.
>
>"Pick up and return at Dunkin Donuts.  Friday pick-up curbside
>at mother's home.  No one to be present except parents at
>Dunkin Donuts.  Holiday visitation11am-7pm pick up and return
>curbside at the mother's home.
>So, when you state that the mother can file a contempt of
>court charges against my boyfriend your information is
>inccorect b/c at no moment does it state that no one could not
>accompany my BF to the pick up and drop off at the curbside of
>the mother's home.  The only place that no one can accompany
>my BF to is the Dunkin Donuts so, me accompanying him and
>staying a block away is in no way a matter of contempt against
>my BF.  
>Furthermore, my BF has even has inquired to judges and lawyers
>and they have all agreed that my BF is in no way violating the
>court order.  Now my BF has told these same individuals how
>the child's mother is in contempt of the court order b/c she
>has brought her sister, her mother, her neighbor to the Dunkin
>Donuts and they have been physically at the Dunkin Donuts.


In other words, you are not going to do anything to diffuse the situation and you are going to continue to go.  And your boyfriend isn't going to stand up to you and tell you no.

All of you are to blame for this situation.  You can't just blame the mother.  You also need to look to yourself and your boyfriend.  

Somehow, I don't think your boyfriend told the lawyers and judges that you were parked a block away from the public place (you know, the one where it states no one else is to be present) of to drop off.  

I know if I were the mother's lawyer, I would have a field day with that.

williaer

Seems your boyfriend needs to take the time to establish some sort of cease fire with the mother....this is only going to get worse.

notnew

I do believe your presence at this time is inflaming the situation. HOWEVER, I also believe that the BM must realize that your BF will have either you, or another woman in his life at some point in time over the next 10-15-or so years depending on the age of the child.

SO, with that in mind, I do believe it is time to call a truce on this and lay some serious ground rules.

I think your BF needs to have his attorney, or either write himself a formal, business like letter addressing the exchange conflicts which are not in the best interests of the child. DO NOT detail events or lay blame. Just state a blanket statement saying that since there have been issues regarding the exchange, he believes it would be in the best interest of the child to diffuse the situation immediately.

In this letter, he should request that all exchanges for at least 6 months take place inside of the police station that is closest to the current exchange place (the Dunkin Donuts). Also, that ALL exchanges take place at the police station.

He should stipulate that for the first 3 months, neither one of them be permitted to bring anybody to the exchange with them. AND he should show up early enough to be already inside when BM arrives for his own protection.

After the 3 months, then both parties are free to bring someone along with them should they desire to do so. BUT, that person will remain in the vehicle parked out in the parking lot while said exchange is taking place.

All parties involved agree to keep discussions limited to topics involving the care and control of the child only. Also, all parties involved agree to not harass, disparage, or otherwise harass each other or any other persons traveling with either parties in the parking lot.

State in the letter that the parties can review this arrangement nearing the end of the 6 months to modify the arrangement in the hopes that both parties have become accustomed to the process and feel more comfortable with it.

Send it certified return receipt requested and state that the changes will be in effect immediately.

Your BF needs to do this to protect himself as well as you.

I want you to understand that I DO not agree with stipulations dictating who can and can't be present at exchanges. In our case, we drive 60 miles one way to exchange on Friday evenings. To demand my wife not be present is unrealistic as we spend time with my family on those Friday evenings prior to driving back home.

AND I think letting one party take control of these matters simply because they cannot behave like adults is unacceptable as well. HOWEVER, I think that in this case, all parties have behaved badly at one point in time, so it is time to draw a sensible line in the sand that EVERYONE must adhere to that is in the BEST INTEREST OF THE CHILD.

What kind of memories are you all creating for this child? Not good ones. Your BF needs to act in the child's best interest. Not yours, BM's, or his. Having the exchange at the police station will give everyone involved the "security blanket" that is obviously needed for all involved and give the kid the breathing room necessary to make things as easy as possible for the kid.

The finger pointing that BF, you, grandmother, BM, etc., are doing is not looked on favorably by the courts. It is time to get it under control.

It will benefit your BF greatly to be the one who puts forth a sensible and workable resolution to these issues without the court's intervention and without a TRO from the mother. Believe me, this is leading to criminal charges that MAY stick. Neither one of you want that I know.

NOW, should he try to resolve these matters amicably and in a logical fashion, and BM refuse to comply then it will clearly show who is causing the problems.

BTW he should cc a copy of this letter to the court and include a Certificate of Service (find it on this site if you dont' know what it is) asking them to enter it into the record.

I cannot stress to you strongly enough how badly these actions will effect things for your BF in holding on to his relationship with his child.