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Insurance

Started by Crockpot, May 11, 2007, 08:53:16 AM

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Crockpot

SO's divorce states he has to keep medical insurance for minor children through his employer.  So, what happens when he's unemployed?  He was laid off two weeks ago and his insurance coverage has ended.  

After child support is taken from his unemployment benefits he'll bring home $100 a month.  The kids need coverage but he literally doesn't have enough to cover it.  He's not willfully breaking the court order, but could he be held in contempt?  

My take on it is, the orders say 'though his employer' and he currently doesn't have one, so they can't hold him to it.  Not ideal, but reality.

Sherry1

of his unemployment and no insurance coverage.  See if she can get the skids covered through her job or medicaid.  I think he has an out if his order specifically states through his employer.  My DH's court order makes it mandatory for him to cover them whether he is employed or not.

Crockpot

BM knows about it already. She only works part time and doesn't have insurance herself.  

Thanks for the response!


mistoffolees

Make sure to talk with the employer about COBRA. Most companies will provide insurance for some period at no cost to the employee (typically 30 days, but sometimes 90 days). After that, you have the right to pay for it at the employer's cost (although it sounds like that's not going to work here).

Also, it's important to find new coverage quickly. After going 90 days or so without coverage, you can be excluded from new employer coverage on the basis of pre-existing conditions. if you go right from one employer to another, this doesn't apply.

Jade

>SO's divorce states he has to keep medical insurance for
>minor children through his employer.  So, what happens when
>he's unemployed?  He was laid off two weeks ago and his
>insurance coverage has ended.  
>
>After child support is taken from his unemployment benefits
>he'll bring home $100 a month.  The kids need coverage but he
>literally doesn't have enough to cover it.  He's not willfully
>breaking the court order, but could he be held in contempt?  
>
>My take on it is, the orders say 'though his employer' and he
>currently doesn't have one, so they can't hold him to it.  Not
>ideal, but reality.


If he is court ordered to provide insurance, then he is going to need to make sure that he elects COBRA.  

Is there any way that the mother can put the kids on her insurance while he is looking for another job?

And, yes, they can hold him to it.  Legally.  

mistoffolees

>>SO's divorce states he has to keep medical insurance for
>>minor children through his employer.  So, what happens when
>>he's unemployed?  He was laid off two weeks ago and his
>>insurance coverage has ended.  
>>
>>After child support is taken from his unemployment benefits
>>he'll bring home $100 a month.  The kids need coverage but
>he
>>literally doesn't have enough to cover it.  He's not
>willfully
>>breaking the court order, but could he be held in contempt?
>
>>
>>My take on it is, the orders say 'though his employer' and
>he
>>currently doesn't have one, so they can't hold him to it.
>Not
>>ideal, but reality.
>
>
>If he is court ordered to provide insurance, then he is going
>to need to make sure that he elects COBRA.  
>

It may not be that simple. If the wording given in the original post is correct, it requires him to keep insurance through his employer. If he doesn't have an employer, that would seem to free him of that obligation.

It all depends on the exact wording. But it also falls under the guise of you can't squeeze blood from a stone. If he only has $100 per month after child support is taken from his unemployment, he's not going to be able to pay Cobra. For my company, it's around $700 per month.

lucky

My dh's cs order states that he is required to maintain insurance provided thru his employer.  We were told by the cs office that if his employer does not offer health insurance as a benefit, he is off the hook - not in those words, but if the benefit isn't there....  If they DO offer insurance as a benefit (no matter the cost to dh) he is required to provide insurance.  If he is terminated involuntarily from a job where insurance is a benefit, he is not required to provide insurance because his employer doesn't offer it... because he DOESN'T have an employer.  If he just quits, he needs to go with COBRA or get the order changed.


[em]Lucky

Lead your life so you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family parrot to the town gossip.
- Will Rogers[em]
Lucky

Lead your life so you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family parrot to the town gossip. ~  Will Rogers

Jade

>My dh's cs order states that he is required to maintain
>insurance provided thru his employer.  We were told by the cs
>office that if his employer does not offer health insurance as
>a benefit, he is off the hook - not in those words, but if the
>benefit isn't there....  If they DO offer insurance as a
>benefit (no matter the cost to dh) he is required to provide
>insurance.  If he is terminated involuntarily from a job where
>insurance is a benefit, he is not required to provide
>insurance because his employer doesn't offer it... because he
>DOESN'T have an employer.  If he just quits, he needs to go
>with COBRA or get the order changed.
>
>
>[em]Lucky
>
>Lead your life so you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family
>parrot to the town gossip.
>- Will Rogers[em]

Uh, the employer has to provide COBRA even if they terminate the employee.  It's the law.  Just like if the employee quits, COBRA is an option.  


lucky

Can you be just a [em]little[/em] more condescending, please????  Has it ever crossed your mind that you are not necessarily the most intelligent and knowledgeable person on this site?????  Because your posts certainly scream that you think you are.

I am fully aware that the employer HAS to provide COBRA, duh.  

BUT, if my dh is involuntarily let go (lay off, fired, plant closes) he does NOT have to take COBRA.

If he voluntarily leaves the company to take a different job without insurance benefits (or to just not work) he DOES have to take COBRA.

It's two different things you and I are talking about.  Perhaps stopping to think (and fully read the post you're responding to) before you type would be a good start for you.  Why don't you go back to my other post and try it, ok?

[em]Lucky

Lead your life so you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family parrot to the town gossip.
- Will Rogers[em]
Lucky

Lead your life so you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family parrot to the town gossip. ~  Will Rogers

jilly

I agree with PP's...if the order says "through his employer" and he's no longer employed there's not much they can do other than tell him to provide insurance coverage once he's employed again.

I agree the BM should get the kids on Medicaid so they are covered. BUT, if she does that, your SO may end up having to repay Medicaid.  I'm not too sure about that but it would bear looking in to.

OT: Has you SO filed for a modification of CS?  His unemployment constitutes a change in circumstances and he can get it lowered based on the amount of his unemployment benefits.  This happened to my DH and he was able to get his CS modified.

Jade

>I agree with PP's...if the order says "through his employer"
>and he's no longer employed there's not much they can do other
>than tell him to provide insurance coverage once he's employed
>again.
>
>I agree the BM should get the kids on Medicaid so they are
>covered. BUT, if she does that, your SO may end up having to
>repay Medicaid.  I'm not too sure about that but it would bear
>looking in to.
>
>OT: Has you SO filed for a modification of CS?  His
>unemployment constitutes a change in circumstances and he can
>get it lowered based on the amount of his unemployment
>benefits.  This happened to my DH and he was able to get his
>CS modified.

That depends on the state.  In my state, it wouldn't be lowered.  What would be lowered is what is taken from the unemployment check (which they can only garnish up to 60% for a single person and 50% for a married person, anyway), the rest would be accrued and paid when he is employed again.  

Jade

>Can you be just a [em]little[/em] more condescending,
>please????  Has it ever crossed your mind that you are not
>necessarily the most intelligent and knowledgeable person on
>this site?????  Because your posts certainly scream that you
>think you are.
>
>I am fully aware that the employer HAS to provide COBRA, duh.
>
>
>BUT, if my dh is involuntarily let go (lay off, fired, plant
>closes) he does NOT have to take COBRA.
>
>If he voluntarily leaves the company to take a different job
>without insurance benefits (or to just not work) he DOES have
>to take COBRA.
>
>It's two different things you and I are talking about.
>Perhaps stopping to think (and fully read the post you're
>responding to) before you type would be a good start for you.
>Why don't you go back to my other post and try it, ok?
>
>[em]Lucky
>
>Lead your life so you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family
>parrot to the town gossip.
>- Will Rogers[em]

Why don't you talk to a lawyer?  Because my divorce decree is worded the way yours is, except I am the one who provides the insurance through my employer.  And my attorney, who has been in family law for 2o years, that I am legally bound to provide insurance, even if I am terminated.  

The courts don't care that I am unemployed.  They care that the kids are covered.  And they don't care about the reason.  If COBRA is offered, I have to take it.  And COBRA is the law.  




lucky

The CO that dh has was completed thru the CS office and the CS officer told us that.  And she told the child's mother that and that was the end of it.  You live somewhere else and it's different.  Go figure....

Besides, I didn't give the wording of the CO, I just gave the "spirit" of the CO shall we say.  How DO you know yours is worded the same?

I didn't tell anyone not to consult an attorney, I just put our experience out there as an example of what can happen.  Why is it you can't figure that out?

[em]Lucky

Lead your life so you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family parrot to the town gossip.
- Will Rogers[em]
Lucky

Lead your life so you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family parrot to the town gossip. ~  Will Rogers

Crockpot

CS office told SO that since he's unemployed he is not responsible for the insurance.  CORBA is offered but it's over $1000 a month.  He considered requesting a reduction in CS since he's not working, but we're hoping he'll find something soon.  We're concerned about his kids.  BM only works part time and totally relies on CS to pay rent etc.  SO is looking into the Medicaid option.  I can support us for a while.

Thanks!

wysiwyg

"I just gave the "spirit" of the CO shall we say"

Please be careful with  this type of statement, if I might offer my 2 cents as we have been tied up in the court system for 15 years, and had our own go rounds wiht interpretations.......the spirit of a court order is different than the wording and it will be the exact wording that is held up in a court hearing.  Remember, the main concern here is the children and it would be to your benefit to try and make arrangements for the children to be covered and I would also consider some way to get a court order or notify the court to cover your butt in the event the mother tries to find a way to hold you in contempt.  I know COBRA is incredibly expensive and barely affordable, but if you are ordered to cover the child - consider short term medical policy to cover the child, you can get one for a few months that will cover catastrophic events only.  

I hope this helps.

lucky

AGAIN!!!

I just offered OUR experience as an EXAMPLE of what could happen!!!!!


Your quote from my post was a statement (that you took OUT OF CONTEXT) that I made in response to Jade saying her CO was worded like dh's is - something that SHE can't truthfully say since I DIDN'T give the exact wording of dh's CO.

Come on!!!  We all give examples of our experiences every day!  So why is mine an issue?  It is what it is.  It may not be what anyone else has experienced, but WE DID.  So it IS a possibility.


[em]Lucky

Lead your life so you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family parrot to the town gossip.
- Will Rogers[em]
Lucky

Lead your life so you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family parrot to the town gossip. ~  Will Rogers

mistoffolees

That's incredibly misleading.

While the employer has to provide COBRA, it's not going to be very helpful in this case. Typically, you get 30 days of free coverage (which has already elapsed in this case, IIRC).

I'm also not sure that the employer has to offer it if the employee quits voluntarily - I'd have to check.

Past the 30 day period, the company has to offer it to you, but you're required to pay the full cost plus admin costs. In the case of my company, that's around $700 or 800 per month. Since this person is only making $100 per month after paying cs, it's going to be tough to do that.

Depending on the wording of the agreement, he may or may not be forced to do so, but what good does it do to try to force something that he clearly can't afford?

mistoffolees

>Can you be just a [em]little[/em] more condescending,
>please????  Has it ever crossed your mind that you are not
>necessarily the most intelligent and knowledgeable person on
>this site?????  Because your posts certainly scream that you
>think you are., ok?

Well said.

KAT

An alternative is catastrophic health insurance aka high deduct, major medical. The deductibles are HUGE but when you consider that if something tragic happens you'd only be out of pocket say 5k instead of several hundred grand, at least that's something. My 23 year old has one, 5k deduct, pays to 1m, the cost 19.00 per month.

Just a thought I leave it with you.

KAT

Sherry1

has just their job.  Maybe you have a lot of extra money when you lose your job and can afford COBA but most cannot.

Sherry1

very expensive.  I had to go uninsured for a couple of months in between jobs when I lost my job.  Most normal people that have just lost their jobs do not have an extra $700-$800 laying around.  I think some posting to this really don't have a realistic approach of some things.

Sherry1

The majority of the posters were in agreement about the health insurance and him not being responsible because he is not working.  I agree that BM should look into Medicaid as soon as possible.  With a new employer he still might not be eligible for benefits for about 3 months.

wysiwyg

wow, I am sorry you took such exception to a toned down post.  I only offered an opinion.  Sorry to have trampled your toes.

mistoffolees

>very expensive.  I had to go uninsured for a couple of months
>in between jobs when I lost my job.  Most normal people that
>have just lost their jobs do not have an extra $700-$800
>laying around.  I think some posting to this really don't have
>a realistic approach of some things.

Well, COBRA is expensive, but so is uninsured illness. Even worse, if you are laid off from one job and go without insurance for 90 days, you lose your protection for pre-existing conditions. So if you have a serious illness (heart disease, diabetes, cancer, etc), you don't want to let your insurance lapse because even if you get a new job they can exclude those conditions if you've been uninsured for 90 days.

Under those circumstances, it needs to be a very high priority if there's any way to swing it from savings, etc. Even if you can't afford COBRA, it's worth looking for a high deductible policy from an independent insurance agent just to make sure you don't lose all your coverage.

Health insurance is a serious matter and there's no easy solution, but it's important enough that people should discuss it with their HR people when they leave a job for any reason so they know what their options are.

mistoffolees

>has just their job.  Maybe you have a lot of extra money when
>you lose your job and can afford COBA but most cannot.

Maybe 'most' can not, but your title is not accurate. SOME people can afford it - and more should.

The fact that few Americans save enough money to get them through a financial rough spot is the real issue here. Rule of thumb says you need to save enough to last you at least 6 months.

I realize, of course, that this is impossible for most people, but that's typically because they live beyond their means. Not always, but often enough. I know some people making over 6 figures of income who don't have any appreciable savings and that's just plain stupid.