Had to sleep on this last night...

[MixedBag]

and I didn't get much rest -- yep, a bit upset at reading the thread below.

G8dad had an uphill battle to remain part of his children's lives and has been here for quite a while.

Olanna too has been around here for quite sometime -- like since the beginning of time for this board -- and I guess that's the basic reason I was "shocked" to read G8dad's subject line that started with "Sorry, you need help" followed by what I consider a sarcastic apology.

I too have been here since the "beginning of time" and I have said before that as an NCP Mother -- I never felt like I fit on a board or part of a board totally.

Butterfly, Gecko, and TM -- said it quite well below in their posts....

And I still don't feel like on many boards I "fit" as an NCP Mom....  I was just reading something again yesterday that said there are 15 million NCP Dads, but there are also 3 million NCP moms.  Maybe later today, I'll go find the link to the newspaper article and post it --don't have time right now.

Take a look at what "Kitten" did with "Olanna" in the other thread -- I haven't seen a Father get asked over and over again about "WHY" he doesn't have custody -- and there you have a perfect example of a real difference that an NCP/Mom experiences.

Another title -- which could be considered more appropriate -- was also discussed -- and I have to disagree and wish to share my personal experience as to why.

On another board (divorcesource), there is a "Mother's" board along with lots of others.  Well, as many here know, my EX's fake-wife followed me to this board and also posted to me at two other boards (divorcenet and divorcesource and I could add more since then).  Our interactions were mainly on the "Mother's" board and at one point I told her that she didn't belong there......and of course, she disagreed.

I couldn't get her to understand that SHE is not the mother to my son, I am.  And that if she had issues concerning my son (and me) that it comes from (at most) the (fake) STEP-MOTHER's point of view -- and there was another board for that.

She said "But I'm a mother too (she has other children) and therefore I belong here."

I said "Yes, you're a mother, BUT the father to your two older children killed himself -- you didn't divorce him, so you never had to co-parent with someone where they are concerned, particularly with someone whom you've divorced.  The father to your daughter was cut out of her life until she turned 6 when you finally TOLD the father that he was a daddy -- and by then you two were living together.  The father to your son was born after you moved in.  So none of your situations are as a CP/Mom....due to a divorce."

Of course, she disagreed.

I've also ran across the "You must have done SOMETHING to loose custody" from the Principal of my son's school.  She even went as far as to say "You abandoned him" -- which is just parroting my EX and his fake-wife -- namely fake-wife.  Now, how many father's have been told they "abandoned" their child?  NCP status is accepted for fathers.  Not that I agree with that totally, and one at a time, this board helps improve life for the kids which includes keeping FATHER's as part of the children's lives.

Unfortunately, I won't participate even on this board because my EX and his fake-wife are still reading and printing off everything I post on these boards.  Then it gets passed on to DH's EX......and both of our boys suffer.  

And kitten, before you ask, NO, I did not give up custody, I was blackmailed into my decision.  The military cares about your personal life where was my EX's employer doesn't give a hoot.  My EX and fake-wife have told everyone that I abandoned my son -- and when I get the feeling that I've run into someone like that -- In about 20 words or less, I explain what really happened -- tell them the truth -- and let them get what they deserves after that.  They shouldn't have lied in the first place.

That doesn't mean I'm done learning.....

Every once in a while, I meet another NCP Mom.....so we're out here, and I commend this site for creating this board.  Many of our challenges ARE the same, but there are still differences.

[olanna]

and I actually complained about some of the treatment here, but it did no good. I was told it was a difference of opinion and in all reality, it was not. It was a condescending, insulting attitude coupled with questions that almost blatently called me a liar when I answered each question!

I know for a fact and I have seen it happen before so many times on this site, if a man had of been treated in the same fashion I was, mods would have stepped in very quickly to sway the conversation and remind all of us what this site is really all about, what is best for the kids. (One mod actually did say that, but I didn't see too much in the way of swaying the conversation...actually it was more the opposite).

I was hoping that Dr. Jen was going to be available here to actually discuss some of these things, but she hasn't made a post since July 27th, so I guess she isn't really going to be a regular here.

The MWC board looks good and obviously could be a wonderful place of support and information.  It's going to be interesting to watch it and see what actually happens here.  

I'm sorry you won't be participating here anymore.  I'm going to wait and see if this board actually takes off before I make any decisions.

[Gecko]

[em][font color=green]I too have been here since the "beginning of time" and I have said before that as an NCP Mother -- I never felt like I fit on a board or part of a board totally. [/em][/font]

I can't say I've been hear since the "beginning of time", but I was here for about a year a few years back, but quit because I didn't "belong" because even though I was/am a NCP, I was/am still a woman.  Pretty much the ONLY women welcomed to this board were women married to NC fathers.

[em][font color=green]And I still don't feel like on many boards I "fit" as an NCP Mom.... I was just reading something again yesterday that said there are 15 million NCP Dads, but there are also 3 million NCP moms. Maybe later today, I'll go find the link to the newspaper article and post it --don't have time right now. [/em][/font]

I can relate to this.  I tried a couple of NCM groups on Yahoo, but they were just as bad as the worst FRG (father's rights group).  Filled with hatred and bitterness, wanting laws to eliminate fathers from the children's lives with the exception of their money (of course).  Sure I'm not happy, but I would nor more want to eliminate the father of my children, than I want to be eliminated myself.

[em][font color=green]Another title -- which could be considered more appropriate -- was also discussed -- and I have to disagree and wish to share my personal experience as to why. [/em][/font]

I hear where you are coming from, but where does SHE go to post?  Since she isn't married to the father, she isn't a "step-mom" and if she is involved in a long-term relationship, she is more that just a casual "girlfriend".

[em][font color=green]Every once in a while, I meet another NCP Mom.....so we're out here, and I commend this site for creating this board. Many of our challenges ARE the same, but there are still differences. [/em][/font]

Yes, many of our challenges are the same in that we are NCPs, but we are also faced with challenges provided by society and they are ones that NC fathers will never face.

[Gecko]

[em][font color=green]Your post is right on the money and I actually complained about some of the treatment here, but it did no good. I was told it was a difference of opinion and in all reality, it was not. It was a condescending, insulting attitude coupled with questions that almost blatently called me a liar when I answered each question![/em][/font]

I ran into a lot of that which is why I quit posting.  Nobody wanted to hear, much less admit, that mothers were facing the same bias in the courts as fathers and therefore, the arguement of gender bias was no longer as issue.  

Fortunately I found a NCP site, that while it took a little while, recgonizes that the NCP issue is not gender related.

[em][font color=green]I was hoping that Dr. Jen was going to be available here to actually discuss some of these things, but she hasn't made a post since July 27th, so I guess she isn't really going to be a regular here.[/em][/font]

I had an email and believe that she is on vacation.

[olanna]

Why not share that site with the rest of us that actually want support and advice, instead of insults?  Feel free to email me; I would simply love to find a place that doesn't have a clique of people with an ax to grind because I have a vagina instead of a penis...

;)

I am:

[email protected]

[kiddosmom]

I have stayed out of the postings on this site. I wanted to see which way the 'wind blew'.
I am frankly shocked at what I have just read. Yes this is a mother's without custody board, so that means no male with an opinion has a right to post it?
I read g8dads post and saw it for what it was, an opinion. Frankly the wemon here have shown me that I do not want to participate on this board.
As soon as an opinion was made, it was not debated. What it was was attacked. How many of us have posted on the fathers board? Givin our opinion on things? Were we attacked for giving that opinion? NO.

YES being an NCP parent is different for males and females. YES we might need a board to talk over things we face that is different. NO noone should be attacked for stating an opinion.

I am sure there is more I can add but right now I am so flabergasted that I cannot think of them.

[kiddosmom]

Actually I did think of one thing, someone said on the post below...

If you don't like the idea of the board, just don't click on it... (do not remember who wrote it)

Please take your own advise and do not click on a post written by someone you do not wish to see an opinion from.

[Gecko]

The name of the site is Custody Reform and is located at http://www.custodyreform.com/

CR started out as a non-custodial father's site, but has evolved over the last several years into a wonderful site that welcomes all custodial arrangements.

You're not going to find any "cliques", but be prepared to have a mirror held up to your face.  While we are very honest about our opinions and there have been some minor personality skirmishes, we pretty much keep it on an adult level.

"Caring Dad", who is the owner of the site has done a really good job in putting the site together.  I would recommend reading over the FAQ section first.

[Gecko]

[em][font color=green]I am frankly shocked at what I have just read. Yes this is a mother's without custody board, so that means no male with an opinion has a right to post it?[/em][/font]

I guess I must be missing something, but what is so shocking?  I personally didn't say that men could not post and I don't think the original poster said that either.

Yes, Gr8Dad IS entitled to his opinion, but personally I think he could have used a little more finese (sp).  Unfortunately, he DOES have a reputation for attacking women because of his own personal situation and it is only natural that some would contrue what he had to say as an attack.

[Gecko]

I would be interested in that article when you have a chance.

[MixedBag]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/08/nyregion/08custody.html?ex=1092979075&ei=1&en=0bf82a82bef542c8

And I'm working on a PM to you as well...

[MixedBag]

I have never been "treated" unfairly by members here on this board (except of course when they turned out to be the EX and fake-wife and they were kicked off).

HOWEVER, I also have to admit that 99% of my posts were/are as a step-mother who is supporting her husband.

I would quietly read the boards and if a situation applied to me as a "NCP/Mother" but the father was going through it, I felt like I could say "Hey that's how I feel" -- but I rarely did this.

Even when trying to get Custodial Mothers and Step-mothers to understand what I'm going through, I felt like I was talking to many brick walls.  I would ask them to ASK their husbands how THEY feel -- because that comes closer.  

I draw my experience of being harrassed or whatever you want to call it -- from again encountering my EX and fake-wife (and DH's EX at times).  The answer?  Ignore.

I won't participate based on the notion that my "enemy" reads these boards and why should I let "THEM" know my weakness because they will exploit them?  They already do in terms of using our sons (on both sides) and time.  Yep, DH's EX has with held time and my EX has threatened to.

[willskitten]

>Take a look at what "Kitten" did with "Olanna" in the other
>thread -- I haven't seen a Father get asked over and over
>again about "WHY" he doesn't have custody -- and there you
>have a perfect example of a real difference that an NCP/Mom
>experiences.

Boy, you sure are defensive.  I merely asked Olanna her situation because it IS unusual for a mother to be NCP and I wanted to know what happened (if she was discriminated against, if she felt the evaluator and/or judge was biased, what evidence did her ex have to do what he did etc...etc...) I asked her over and over again because she did not answer my question clearly.  I have also asked NCP fathers the same question!!! " People with nothing to hide, hide nothing."
>
>And kitten, before you ask, NO, I did not give up custody, I
>was blackmailed into my decision.  The military cares about
>your personal life where was my EX's employer doesn't give a
>hoot.  My EX and fake-wife have told everyone that I abandoned
>my son -- and when I get the feeling that I've run into
>someone like that -- In about 20 words or less, I explain what
>really happened -- tell them the truth -- and let them get
>what they deserves after that.  They shouldn't have lied in
>the first place.
>
I never asked you or Olanna if you gave up custody.  Just like I never have asked a NCP father if he gave up custody.  All NCP parents stories are important if we are to make changes for our children!!!  THAT is what this is about, not bruised egos.

[willskitten]

CP/MOM, and a Step-NCP/MOM -5 kids and 2 cats. (not old enough for grandkids yet)

These are my qualifications.

[olanna]

not an opinion...it's an insult.  And it was the very first thing he said to me.  I felt attacked and what I feel is what I feel...

Rest assured had I have said that very same thing to some man on this site, the men would come out IN FORCE to let me know I was wrong...as I have seen so many times in the past.  

So what was I supposed to do??? How do you think I should have responed to his insults?  "oh yes, master gr8, the wise and all knowing..you have all the wisdom and knowledge of all and everything...I'm not worthy..."

Ain't happening...not in my lifetime.  I have as much right to defend myself as anyone here.

[olanna]

why I lost custody...I told you. I ran out of money...you told me it wasn't as simple as that. It actually was as simple as that...

Who's hiding anything? Waylon himslef has been a HUGE help to me during the 5 plus years I have been coming to this site... I don't have to give you every single detail in one post. Just because I am sick and tired of rehashing the shit doesn't make me a liar.

[kiddosmom]

I have only been on SPARC about a year, so I must have missed where he attacked women. He has always been very nice to me, helped if needed. I would have to say that is why I was so shocked.
As to the finese (sp?) part.... ummm not everyone has it.

[MixedBag]

I just searched on "Kitten" and didn't see one thread where you asked a father here over and over again.....like you did with olanna....why he didn't have custody.  And Kitten hasn't been here that long unless you've been here under another name.

No I'm not defensive, I was merely pointing out a recent example where people could go see something that happens to a "Mother without custody" that they could see right now.   There's no such thread on the boards that is recent for a father.

It was all about showing an example.

I too have been challenged as to why I don't have custody and can identify with olanna when it happened to her.

When you asked over and over again instead of accepting her answer, I personally feel you stepped over the line.  

If you really wanted to pursue it, you should have done it privately by using the PM system this board offers.

[olanna]

and then stuck around to get the details as the site grew. I have NEVER asked anyone why they lost custody, cuz frankly, if they are here on this site looking for answers, the chances that they are trying to parent the child without the other parent Passing the shit out of the kid.

Does it really matter why any of us lost custody? No, not really. Be it a man or a woman....doesn't really matter.  The thing I thought we were all supposed to be looking for here is a way to be supportive and how to better deal with the situations we are all in...and to make sure our kids are OK and they know we love them.

You can't move forward if you keep looking back all the time.

[olanna]

or are the you a wife to an NCP dad?  In what ways did gr8 help you?

[kiddosmom]

Yes I am a non-custodial mom. Have been for 4 years. G8dad has always givin me any help I asked for, be it links I needed or just a shoulder to talk on.
I do not talk to him often, but there was always respect.

[Peanutsdad]

Wow,


The rancor I see in this board certainly makes it without doubt, the most highly charged emotionally here at sparc.

""Does it really matter why any of us lost custody? No, not really. Be it a man or a woman....doesn't really matter. The thing I thought we were all supposed to be looking for here is a way to be supportive and how to better deal with the situations we are all in...and to make sure our kids are OK and they know we love them.""



I agree with the make sure our kids are ok and know we love them. However; I strongly disagree with the reasons not mattering. In some cases, the reasons matter a great deal.

In answering anyone who looks for help here, the answers are the same and whether or not they are truthful in the telling of their situation, really doesnt matter as the answers really wont help those who are in the wrong.


Is your own custody struggle still ongoing?

[olanna]

Yes, it's still going on...

When I said it really doesn't matter why we lost custody, I was referring to the basically good folks on this board that got screwed by the courts..and for all purposes, most of the people that come to these boards are looking for help with custody, visitation and child support issues. Those that show up here to try to screw an ex or get out of paying CS don't last long...no matter what gender.

Liars get found out soon enough, as well. So I stand by what I said about it not mattering as to why most people on these boards lost custody.

If I didn't care about my son and his situation, why would I come here looking for support? If my ex and I were able to co-parent well together, I would have no need to come here and get advice/look for help, as we could solve issues on our own. Truth is, he's impossible and because of his immaturity, he really is hurting our son...and his wife is right along side, encouraging him every step of the way.

So far, through the help of this board, I have actually received advice on how to contact my son, and it worked! I also received help from an advocate and got a downward mod in CS that was 2 years overdue.  

This board can offer the honest folk that were royally screwed help and it's pretty unique in that few are like it.   It is my intention to ignore those that are looking for entertainment through online fighting and flaming, so the board space isn't wasted with the arguing and those folks, like me, that are looking for advice/support/guidance can get it without getting buried in the muck and mire.

As someone very dear to me pointed out, there are always going to be 10,000 of them and only one of me. It's going to be up to me to decide which battles are worth attending and which ones are best left to die on the vine.

I want help.  And I want support.

[olanna]

Well, perhaps in time, he might be that to the folks on this board, too, me included.  For now, I'm not feeling it.

[willskitten]

I don't recall calling you a liar.  I'll just leave you alone, I've got enough conflict to deal with from the ex's.  Telling me your story could have answered some of the questions I have, seeing it from your perspective could have helped.  As far as your buddy mixedbag is concerned...I have never asked any of the dads on here specifically how they lost custody because they have volunteered the info.  I have asked friends and friends of friends.  I will be more careful where I tread from now on....
BTW...How's the Dr. Phil thing going?  Maybe I'll see you there on Wednesday for the taping.

[willskitten]

Guess I'll let this one "die on the vine."  Good Luck to you and your son, Olanna.

[olanna]

I wish you all the best, kitten.  I think we all are on edge for so many different reasons...

I have spent the last five years of my life having to defend myself to the general population..I refuse to do it anymore. My only crime is having a child with and idiot.

[jilly]

That would be me :D

[Sherry1]

have not been there done that on that front!