I have no idea what to do and he has my daughter

[Meighan]

First of all I want to say that I MUST respect my daughter's father or she won't respect him..I have to be an example so I'll never EVER bad mouth him.  All I'm going to do is present the facts and hope maybe somebody will at least be my friend. Man I feel dumb =/ ok...so..here's what's going on...

I got pregnant with my daughter and moved to Oklahoma to live with his parents.  They informed us that I was not allowed to live with them.  I stayed with his best friend until that got to be too much.  His parents told him to either make me give her up for adoption or they would disown him.  He dropped me off at a homeless shelter and that was it.  

I had Maria in North Carolina where I went to live w/a great aunt of mine and had Maria on Feb. 24, 2001 ...we were not married, her father was listed as unknown on her birth certificate and it has stayed that way to this day....I then moved to Pa. to be with my mother so I could finally get on my feet.  I had no education (I was a stupid kid and didn't make wise choices obviously) and had a very hard time supporting Maria.  Eric said that he had changed and moved to Pa. to be with us. I married him on September 11, 2001 simply because I thought that I had to live w/the consequences of what I had done and that he was my only option.

I started college and we lived on campus.  I got very very ill and was hospitalized from an infection and Eric lost his job.  He spent the next few months not working until the president of the college (it was a small Christian college) told him that he had to get a job or leave because they weren't going to support him.  He got a job and then lost it again.  We finally moved to Ok. to be with his parents again b/c my mother refused to help at all if it involved helping my husband...she didn't like him.  In January 2003 we moved in with his parents and I made the decision to leave after the situation with his parents became rediculous.  He promised that he would keep Maria while I got on my feet and that we would agree on everything and get along in a civil manner.  Thus far we have.

However, Eric has moved out of his parents house and I just now got his address toady.  He has no phone and I am not able to get in touch with him and his parents hang up when I try to call and leave a message.  The last time I called his 13 year old sister screamed at me and hung up.  I understand that because I come out of a bad background (no drugs or arrests or mental issues just a really bad home growing up) it's hard for his family to relate to me. But my daughter has nothing to do with them.  

I spoke to my husband today and was told that he won't leave to move somewhere neutral to start over and leave BOTH of our families out of our relationship because if he does his parents will "disown him" and he doesn't want to "burn any bridges."  He prefers them.  He also told me that Maria is too young to be moved around...and that I could "maybe see her at Christmas."  I had to call his job..his best friends house and finally was ready to call the sherrif's office today to get ahold of him.  He's not a bad guy and I don't hate him and he needs to be with his daughter.  

However, he says that because I can't provide the way his parents can he doesn't want her with me and that he wants her "best interest." I desperately want Maria to live with him during the summer time and I'll even pay for her to go see him at Christmas every year if only I can be with my baby.  She's all I have and this life has been desperately difficult and I've never been a bad mother or not provided.  I called the company he just got a job with and asked if they had any openings here in Florida and they do.  I found out how to apply and even called other places and got the info. for him to apply at those places for jobs.  


I then sent that info in a certified letter begging him to let her live here and then he can see about transferring/getting a job here that way there will be no family to interfere.  I talked to him today and he refused.  On friday I plan to go to Oklahoma and get my daughter.  I'm scared that if he calls the sherrif they're going to make me leave without Maria and I'm honestly at my end.  I have nothing without my baby and I don't have the money to fight in court.  I've looked into Oklahoma law all over the internet and even called a lawyer.  I was told that there is no law the specifically pertains to this situation and that that the longer I'm away the worse it will be for me in the longrun.  Can somebody help me maybe?

-Meighan

[olanna]

First off, I want to say that I know it must be distressing for you.  I need to ask you this, and I really want you to think about it before you answer...

Where is this baby going to find the most stability?  If the baby has been with him for awhile, and as you said, he isnt a bad guy, maybe Dad's house *is* a good place for your baby to stay.  I do believe he really is looking out for her best interest, from what you have posted.  The truth is, when people split up that are married, it's sort of a free for all for who stays with or takes the kids until there is some kind of court order in place.  Right now, I have to tell you that possession (and I really hate to use that term but I don't have a better one) is 9/10 of the law.  He has the baby...he is the baby's father and there isn't a whole hell of a lot you can do.

My advice to you if you really want that baby in your life, is to find a job and a place near him, get to work, get set up and get some stability in your life.  Show him that you can do what you need to do to take care of yourself *and* your little one.  Once you have done that, see if you can work out some arrangement with him for regular visitation and perhaps on down the road, split custody.

Right now, I know you are missing your child. But until you can get yourself in a better situation, I have to agree that it's best that your little one isn't riding around all over the country without a stable place to call home.

Blessings come in some really strange packages sometimes.  I would count your blessings that your estranged husband is a good guy and you know that your child is OK. Believe me, there is a lot to be said for that.

Hang in there...take care of yourself and everything else will work out...it always does.

[Meighan]

**I said in my original post that we moved in with his parents in 2003, we had been together up until January 2004 not 2003..I left just a few months ago.  I left a post to clarify below..but yeah just in case I'm letting you know here...so I've only been away from my daughter for a few months, not a year or more.  

Considering the fact that he's left us more than once.... and the fact that his mother would be the one raising my daughter, I'm simply not comfortable with leaving her there if it means that my daughter ends up not knowing me.  No one wanted anything to do with my baby when I was pregnant.  They have a 13 year old adopted daughter that they quote "wish they never would've adopted." My baby spends most of her time at their house and I'm not o.k. with her growing up in a family with those types of issues.  We all have issues, we all have problems and there are things in families that other people wouldn't like if exposed to them which doesn't make those families bad or wrong. However, if their children are respresentative of how my daughter will end up if she stays there...I'll die before I let that happen.  If I didn't like their music or the way they raise their children because it doesn't line up with what I believe that's one thing.  But I've watched how their children have turned out. And if anyone is going to raise our daughter it should be him and I..not them.  

If I had issues with arrests,drugs,mental instability or child abuse I'm thinking that things would be different.  However, at this point, I am fully able to provide a home for my daughter.  When I am there with his family it's as if I don't exist.  I'm some kind of freak and generally ignored.  My husband time and again has always chosen them.  I agree that it's not ok for my daughter to be moved around.  However..her mother can't be replaced.  Neither can her father's family however at this point it's not ok that his parents are the ones that are doing the raising.  I want him to have her in the summer and for Christmas or whatever other major holiday he wants.  I don't want her to be taken from him, I simply would prefer that WE raise our daughter .... he had problems with my mother when we lived together in Pa. and I agreed with him that she should not be involved in our marriage and did what he asked me to do.

 I gave in to what he wanted and now have to fight to be a mother to my child.  There has been ALOT of horrible things done by my husband that I simply refuse to use against him because it's not mature or fair and it's not our daughter's fault that he's a jerk or that we have had problems.  I simply believe that she *NEEDS* to be with her mother and the fact that I want to start over on my own without having to worry if he's going to decide to quit another job again or choose his mother over me.  I've decided to go to Oklahoma and try to reason with him maturely and without argument.  Hopefully after he's seen everything that the lawyer I spoke with presented me with we'll be able to come to a mature compromise. I followed him around like a stupid puppy when he was married and lied and said he was single.  

I followed him around like an idiot and hung on when he abandoned me at a homeless shelter in Texas when I was pregnant and alone.  I allowed him back into my life even though he refused to pay child support after our daughter was born because his parents "wouldn't let him." I defended him when he refused to get a job.  We all screw up and I'm not gonna hold his immaturity over his head.  But I darn sure am gonna defend myself when I'm told that because I don't have parents with 20384238048023 dollars in the bank that I can't provide stability.  I did it when Maria was born and I was alone and I will continue to do it after we're living our lives in peace and he's still in Oklahoma making sure that his mother is happy with him.

I have spent the last two weeks crying over this because I have felt tremendous guilt about bringing my daughter here.  I didn't want to hurt anyone.  I was ready to give up and walk away in favor of "what's best for Maria." But I have spent my life feeling like everyone else should have what makes them happy and gives them a great life thinking that I'm not worthy of having the same.  However it's not about me.  It's about my daughter. And "what's best for her" has nothing to do with her father's parents and everything to do with HER parents.  If her daddy can't raise her ON HIS OWN without his parents teaching her how to become a disrespectful, cussing, promiscuous teenager like the daughter that they admit they don't even want then he needs to let her live with her mother and have liberal visitation. And I AM worthy of having a normal, sane life in a stable home and I have begun to achieve that and I will do it with my daughter living under my roof.

Thanks for your input :)

[Meighan]

I said in my original post that in January 2003 we moved in with his parents. It was actually this past January....A few months ago we moved in with his parents and not long after that I moved out.  My daughter has only been with her father for a few months..not a year or more. my bad.

[maydaymayday]

Get yourself together and then go get custody of your child.  You are now "unstable" in the eyes of the court while the bd's parents are stable.

Hang tight and do right by your child!  Good luck!

[Meighan]

I am "together" and I'm going to get her on Saturday :) thanks!

[Meighan]

I talked to a lawyer today who was very nice and explained the law to me in a way that I can understand.  According to Oklahoma state law both of us have equal access to our daughter.  This means that I can take her as long as I have access to her.  Once that is done, I should file for custody in which case I should win because I'm asking for what the judges in that particular county favor anyways.  The only way I would not win is if there were extraordinary circumstances or a prior custody order.  

She reccomended that I attempt to get my husband to agree to out of court, private mediation in order that my husband could better understand the law regarding custody and so that we can come to a compromise regarding custody without having to go in front of a judge.  She also said that there are certain requirements that must be met before a judge can rule that I have "abandoned" my child.  My situation isn't construed as abandonment and for it to be determined that she WAS indeed abandoned a judge would have to make that decision...and so far the laws surrounding an abandoned child don't pertain to me. Anyways..I thank y'all for your input and for everything :)

-Meighan

[olanna]

"Once that is done, I should file for custody in which case I should win because I'm asking for what the judges in that particular county favor anyways"

Once what is done? You are going to pick her up and leave with her? How long has it been since she has seen you? How long has she been with her Dad?

[MixedBag]

From what I think I've understood.....you are in Florida right now and travelling to Oklahoma tomorrow.  Then your intention is to bring her back to Florida and file.

Florida will not have jurisdiction because your daughter will not have lived there for over 6 months with you.

Oklahoma has jurisdiction (maybe and barely) but Dad has the upper hand there (IMHO) because you want to leave the state of Oklahoma with her.

You know, I really hope you can work something out.  When I was reading through this I was thinking "Why couldn't you find a place to work and live in Oklahoma that isn't under anyone else's roof?"  Find a place of your own and get set up on your own (just like it sounds like you've done in Florida.)  You probably don't have much vested in FL just yet and if it means getting primary custody of your child if you stay put in OK, I'd seriously consider it.

Not walking in your shoes to know what's best....And I understand that.  We're all trying to help -- remember that!  

[gr8Dad]

...and Dad gets a decent lawyer, you are going to not ONLY lose custody, but also be given supervised visitation, as you will be listed as a flight risk with the child.  You will ALSO frighten the child greatly.  I advise that you get a second opinion, preferably from someone that does not stand to benefit from your court case, like this lawyer will.

[Meighan]

>...and Dad gets a decent lawyer, you are going to not ONLY
>lose custody, but also be given supervised visitation, as you
>will be listed as a flight risk with the child.  You will ALSO
>frighten the child greatly.  I advise that you get a second
>opinion, preferably from someone that does not stand to
>benefit from your court case, like this lawyer will.


Actually, Dad works 12 hours a day and is never home and is about to move to Texas with our daughter.  Dad has been leaving our daughter with his parents for extended periods of time and then not keeping in regular contact with me.  Dad has had our daughter since the very end of February when I left and we made our agreement.  Considering the fact that I haven't been gone very long I'm not seeing how I would "frighten my child." It's taken everything I have to not give up and walk away with the reasoning that it would be best for our daughter.  

Unless you're an attorney in the state of Oklahoma...I'm gonna have to not agree with you on the whole "flight risk" thing.  I spoke to a lawyer in Oklahoma at length today and asked all KINDS of questions.....one of them was.... what right do I have to my daughter as a mother? what's best for our daughter in the eyes of the court? what can I do within the limits of the law and how do I keep my relationship with our daughter ?  

I'm not going to bust up in there all 'GIVE ME MY DAUGHTER NOWWWWW!!!' That's not mature, it's not healthy for our child and it's not conducive to ANYTHING good at all for her.  As far as me not being willing to live in Oklahoma?  I have no one there to help me.  This will be the third time in 6 months that my husabnd has moved with our daughter I'm not going to go on a wild goose chase to find them everytime he decides to get up and go and I have followed him around since I was 18 years old trying to make things work.  I have established myself here with help and I will no longer be at his mercy.  I am perfectly within my rights if I want to establish my life here and build myself a home.  Furthermore, If we were there my husband's parents made it clear even when I was living there and taking responsibility for my daughter that THEY were in control.  They can help out..but I don't want to live anywhere near them if the children they have now is any indication of how my daughter will end up if left to their care.  I spoke with him today and we're both going to be adults about the situation.  That's it.  I came to this board hoping that there might be somebody from Oklahoma that would know a little about the law, but I got the answers I needed today from an attorney..and as far as getting a second opinion....the woman read to me verbatim EXACTLY what the law says regarding child custody in Oklahoma and the Uniform Child Custody..act? I can't remember the exact verbiage in the name. Anyways...I'm not stupid enough to accept something someone says without some sort of source to back it up. This is why it's taken me so long to make this decision..I wanted to do what's best for our daughter within the limits of the law.  

Thanks for y'all's input!!! Good luck with whatever you have going on.

[gr8Dad]

One:  You wrote, "As far as me not being willing to live in Oklahoma? I have no one there to help me."

If you cannot raise the child on your own, without any help, then how are you any better than him?

Two:  You wrote, "I spoke with him today and we're both going to be adults about the situation."

When you spoke, did you mention that you had every intention of taking the child and relocating to Florida?

Yes, you spoke with an OKLAHOMA attorney (I will NOT take this opportunity to make a joke about Oklahoma, but being a Texan, I want you to know it takes a GREAT deal of restraint).  And he told you what your rights are regarding parental rights in Oklahoma.  Now, those same rules will not apply in Florida, as it is a different state, and the child has not resided there for six months, the length of time required to be considered a resident.

Now, you can ignore mine and everyone elses advice, that is well within one of your rights, but myself, and MANY on here are substantially older than you, and have been there and done that in regards to custody issues.

I, myself, have custody of a child that is not even biologically mine, so you MIGHT wanna listen when someone tells you something, as we have navigated the custody courts, been through the trials, filed the motions, and lived with the good and bad.

But, of course, YOU talked with an attorney over the phone, so you MUST know better.  Best of luck in whatever you do, and for the sake of the child, reconsider this move.

[Davy]

Here Lies a Lawyer and an Honest Man

A woman and her daughter were visiting the grave of a relative. On their way through the cemetery back to the car, the little girl asked, "Mommy, do they ever bury two people in the same grave?"

"Of course not, dear." replied the mother,

"Why would you think that?"

"The tombstone back there said 'Here lies a lawyer and an honest man.'"

************************************************************

Please find another way to be close to your daughter and do NOT remove her across state lines.  FL certainly has absolutely nothing to offer the child that is not available in OK.  Aside from the legal issues,
"Missing Children" is a huge issue in FL (and elsewhere) and the head of FL DCFS is from OK.  I suspect you could find more quality 'help' in OK

[MixedBag]

take a look down below at the article from other parents who have moved away from the NCP and the uphill battles they are facing.

Gecko posted one...

I posted another that was all recently published.

I also don't agree with your statement that you can't live in Oklahoma on your own with no support.  BTDT -- and it's not so bad, it just takes time to make new friends.

Hope you have/had a safe trip.

[gr8Dad]

...I change my opinion...LOL!

[Meighan]

I went to Oklahoma to get my daughter and there were no problems at all.  My husband agreed to speak to a lawyer of his choosing who informed him of the specifics of the law at which point he agreed to joint custody with me having primary physical custody.

 My husband has refused to pay child support thus far and when I arrived at his door he was packed, and ready to move to Texas. He hadn't planned on informing me of where he was going or even when he was leaving.

He hasn't paid any child support or made a concerted effort to be a huge part of her life.  The letters our daughter sends to her daddy, and pictures she draws and progress reports from her preschool are totally not acknolwedged.  and I have come to a definite conclusion after all of this has been said and done. As long as we're not arguing and getting along for the sake of our daughter, and that she has the absolute best that we can provide her with and is safe,happy and healthy I am at peace.  

In closing I want to address something someone said regarding my ability to care for my daughter.  It was something along the lines of the fact that if I can't care for my daughter with no help at all in Oklahoma, I most certainly can't care for her here in Florida. The general idea is that I shouldn't need help.

I'm Puerto Rican. Latin families don't behave that way with each other. The idea that we should all 'do it on our own' or we're somehow not fit for parenthood is one that is truly absurd and most likely the foundation of most of this country's problems with respect to the huge divorce rate, children growing up to be monsters and the all out hate and disdain we haev for each other as a whole.  I pray that this attitude is one that you can re-examine with an honest heart.  I again thank y'all for all of your advice. Thank God everything all of you said was wrong on about 34 different levels. Had I listened I would've never seen my daughter again as evidenced by my husband's irresponsible behavior.  He says he can't afford child support. man. I really am happy I decided to trust my instincts. thanks anyways!

-Meighan

[jilly]

I am so glad that you have your daughter and that things are going well for you.  I think the poster who made the statement about not being able to care for your daughter without help was under the false impression that you meant government assistance.  I didn't take it that way. I knew you meant assistance of family.  And I agree with you. It doesn't matter what nationality you are...we all need help with our kids from family or friends from time to time.  I don't necessarily buy into the Hilary Clinton "it takes a village" crap, but I do know that it's very good and very healthy for children to have close, loving relationships with family and friends.

When you say he is refusing to pay child support, does that mean there is a child support order and he isn't paying as the court has ordered? Was it filed in OK or FL?  How sad for your daughter that her Dad won't even respond to her letters and pictures.

Again, I'm happy for you and your daughter.  Feliz Navidad!

[Davy]

The advice you received was all excellent advice against running off to parts unknown (in FLorida) with or without the child.  The advice was given regardless of gender, race, nationality, or religion, etc, etc.  It appears you were able to coax the father in front of an attorney where he was told he did not have a chance in hell (based on social policy) so now the father is disenfranchised by distance and you're complaining that you don't know where he is and why he is not communicating or paying you support.  

Your posts were full of how the courts would show you favortism because you are 'the mother'.  As noted your mother/aunt live in PA / NC and were unwilling to help you as was the father's family in OK.  It is no surprise you found 'lovey dovey open arms' in Florida and you remain silent on the source of your 'help'.  Is it a Christian cult or what ?  Why should anyone think your child is OK given the nature of all your posts ?        

Moreover, Missy, you are condensending toward America while claiming  oneupmanship for Latin families ... you have been deceived.

As are many others, I'm a great American with many freinds and family of the opposite gender, race, and nationality.   I don't speak a lick of spanish but  my coffee is from Costa Rica and my house is full of gifts returned from Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, Puerto, Chilli and Venezuala. There's a bottle of all natural old fashioned pastureland eggnog with a picture of betsy the cow in the frig and a wheaties box with my picture on the kitchen counter alongside a momento from the USA Women's soocer champs and a picture of Tom Landry.  My youngest son was being cute and left a cut tree limb standing up in the corner of the dining room ... once you learn to appreciate all of this and how to piss up a rope you too can be a great American.... oh and Missy ... may the good Lord take a liken to ya...

[Meighan]

actually, he went to an attorney of his choosing without me. Once again assumptions are being made.

Based upon the fact that we agreed (in writing as a result of his past history with instability) that this would be the start of his visitation with her and I would use that time to get on my feet, his threats to take her god knows where, the fact that he didn't give me his address and I couldn't get through to his parents, he was told that him and I need to agree or he was going to have to pay lawyer's fees and then answer to a judge for his behavior.  

As for my statement regarding family, I'm not sure how the location of your coffee grower has anything to do with that. And I will not address anything else in your post because none it of made any sense and it was pretty petty. Christian cult? what? how bout...grow up. I have had the same address for almost a year now. My husband knows my address and phone number and where I work and I am not in "parts unknown" and didn't "run off." Nor do I live with some other man.  I'm sorry about whatever it is that has made you so bitter that you would make up crazy scenarios in order to avoid admitting that I might not be the idiot that you'd like to believe I am. But thank you for sharing =)

When I was pregnant with my daughter he dropped me off at a homeless shelter because I refused to give our daughter up for adoption. He told me to get in the car, took me to Texas from Oklahoma and left me because his parents told him to choose between his daughter and them.  When I was in college and hospitalized with an ear infection that left me unable to walk, he came to the hospital to see me once for a few minutes. He then proceeded to refuse offers of help with childcare, quit his job and then would leave our baby in her bedroom with the door closed while he slept. Sometimes all day. One of our neighbors had to break the lock on the door to get to the baby she was screaming so bad one day.  Our church gave us money to help with groceries and such after I was released from the hospital and he spent every last dime of it on pornography that he had FedExed to our apartment.  The president of my college offered him employment with the school. He refused to do his work and when I was finally able to walk again I did MY FULL TIME job...the work that the school had given him PLUS dealt with a 15 credit hour week not to mention my ministry practicum and somehow finding a way to be there for our baby. While he slept. all day. and refused to look for work.

And after all of this I still haven't told anyone.  I never told the lawyer I spoke to on the phone, I never accused him of anything ,I never badmouthed and always did my best to lift him up with the hopes that his self esteem would grow and that he could be the man that I knew he could be.  I defended him when my pastor informed me that he had to physically grab my husband when he thought he was going to dislocate the baby's shoulder as he threw by one arm at a restaurant one day, I defended him when he was offered jobs by people at my church and never showed up for work. And I defended him through all of the times he lied and acted like a 10 year old.  Because I respect him enough to give him a chance to prove that he's the man he says he is.  One day I was taking a nap and he walked out of the house to go on a date with some female he met on the internet and left our daughter alone and did not wake me up. And even after that I gave him another chance.  It takes a hell of a lot of dignity and maturity to deal with a person of his caliber the way that I have.  I can only hope that you do the same with others.

In light of those situations and more that I refuse to discuss because I already said I did not want to bad mouth the father of my child, I don't give a damn if he's feeling disenfranchised or anything else.  This man has a history of being a neglectful deadbeat.  Since I was 18 years old I lived with being told I was stupid and that I was lucky to have him because no one else would ever want me as "used up" as I am.  I try to call and put him on the phone with our daughter and it works sometimes.  I ask him for money for situations like when I have to pay for her medicine out of pocket ...she has frequent ear infections and it gets pretty expensive.  Or when I had to pay the enrollment fee for her daycare.  I don't bitch.  I don't whine or complain.  I typically don't bring it up unless I'm desperate because I know that he has very little money and probably would pay something if he could. I even tell him what a wonderful person he is and remind him of how talented and intelligent that he is, still hoping that he gets his crap together for the sake of our child.  And so, now that I've thoroughly torn up every single idea you have regarding who I am and how I've handled this situation, I suggest you find out what's really going on before you make rash judgements as you made in the above post.

[Meighan]

Thank you for being so nice Jilly =) I understand what you're saying as well. And you're absolutely right.  I reckon my point was that now that I wasn't exposed to hispanic culture much as a child.  Now that I live in Miami, one of the reasons the latin community here distances themselves from 'Americans' (their words not mine) is because they can't understand a culture that isn't as fiercely devoted to family as theirs is. INDIVIDUALLY.....there most certainly are exceptions. Generalizations are just stupid.  But on a much broader level the differences are glaring.  My father's family took care of each other, no questions asked.  Whereas my mother's husband says "we raised our children. I don't want you in my house. You may not show up whenever you want  you may not eat my food I don't want you in my house."  My mother's family is that way too. They wouldn't even let each other eat in their homes without some sort of compensation.  Those are examples of just one family.  And you're right not everyone is like that. I have to agree with you. But yeah I reckon there's alot of truth in what both of us said.

As far as child support goes, there isn't an order as of yet. Voluntarily he won't pay.  He filed for divorce and agreed that we would come to an agreement regarding the terms, but he said that he wouldn't sign anything unless child support was $150.00 a month or less.  I agreed to that and was just informed that he has filed and is waiting for a court date.  So no, there is no order right now.  He simply won't send anything for her.  When I ask he says that he "can't afford it" verbatim. Which is ok I understand that we all struggle from time to time. I just want peace for our daughter's sake.  If that means he doesn't pay child support I'm not going to make a huge issue out of it.  I'm doing ok with respect to supporting her and he'll just have to answer to her if she ever finds out.

Thank you so much for..and Merry Christmas to you too!!! =)

[Davy]

... OK ....  father is pitiful.

Why would a baby be left with a pitiful father while a mother runs from OK to FL to get her life in order ??

What does FL have to offer you that is not offered in OK or TX or any other state.  Why FL ???

What is the involvement of the church ??

What is the condition of the child today ??

[MYSONSDAD]

I have to wonder how this child will end up...

"Children learn what they live"

[Meighan]

y'all are about the most bitter, cynical people I've dealt with. My goodness. Have fun wallowing in it. Yup. Good luck with all that.

[MYSONSDAD]

Now that wasn't nice, true self showing?

I will say it again, I wonder how your child will end up...and just confirmed

"Children learn what they live"

[MYSONSDAD]

First of all, your lying...

Username: Meighan

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Now, that is interesting


"Children learn what they live"

[MixedBag]

You said....

"I'm Puerto Rican. Latin families don't behave that way with each other. The idea that we should all 'do it on our own' or we're somehow not fit for parenthood is one that is truly absurd and most likely the foundation of most of this country's problems with respect to the huge divorce rate, children growing up to be monsters and the all out hate and disdain we haev for each other as a whole."

You received advice on this board whether you were purple or pink....

And now you're bringing in nationality......doesn't matter.  You just slammed us and that was wrong.

[MYSONSDAD]

I agree, she came here for answers. If we are sooooo terrible, then why did she post in the first place.

She received good suggestions and then slapped us in the face...

I get the impression she is full of hate and the child will suffer.

[Meighan]

I'm lying because I didn't bother to make a profile? hrrm. alrighty then. My point is that I came here for answers..for people to ask me questions about my situation and then look at it for what it is and tell me if they knew anything regarding Oklahoma law. That was it.

I didn't come here to be told that I'm stupid and that I have no parenting skills. Nor did I come here to do the same to y'all.   I read alot before I posted and got the sense that bitterness is a major theme of this board.  I chose to ignore that and post anyways because I was desperate.  I was so self conscious about my ability to provide a good upbringing for my daughter that I was ready to walk away and let her go.

I called that lawyer and told her to tell me why I shouldn't have my daughter as opposed to my husband. I told her every single thing I could think of about my self and the situation barring the stupid crap that my husband did and I asked her to be the devil's advocate.  My self esteem probably isn't the greatest in the world and as a result, I was willing to have somebody tell me I was a piece of crap and accept it as truth...I was that terrified of confrontation.

Granted it is most certainly not y'all's fault that you didn't (and still don't) know every single detail of what went on with my husband and I.  However my posts were totally ignored.  Almost everyone that responded did so with the basic premice of their posts being something along the lines of "you ran off and abandoned your daughter."

Between my husband and my mother's family, I've always been told that I'm worthless.  It would've been nice for someone to say "I understand how you're feeling. Let's look at the situation for what it is and with total honesty and we can come up with a plan together." Of course I can't expect this from some stranger on the internet. But it isn't unfair for me to expect the aforementioned stranger to stop and think before they speak.  If someone had told me "look Meighan. these are the facts, you're not stable and you're not fit to be a mother right now. your husbad is a great guy and he's only trying to help ......etc.," and it was the truth...I'd accept it however horribly it might hurt.  I used to be prideful, arrogant, immature and retarded.  I was forced to humble myself.  If lack of humility was an issue for me y'all might have had a leg to stand on. Unfortunately for you, that is not the case.

And nobody said you were "sooooooo terrible" I never mentioned that. The suggestions I got were without regard to anything I said at all. I'm not "full of hate" and my daughter most certainly isn't suffering.  One of the reasons I was so scared to get her was because I thought SHE WOULD suffer if I brought her back to live with me; I had such little faith in my abilitys as a mother.  If I had done what y'all told me to do, I would've been back at this board not less than a month later complaining and arguing and full of drama and anger and engaging rather nicely in conversation because I put myself into the same situation that most of you are in.

 I refrained from speaking my mind before because I was scared. Of everything. I had no confidence in myself at all and would do anything to keep from dealing with confrontation or arguing. I was so paralyzed I wouldn't even make decisions for myself. As long as everyone liked me I could function. I never fought for anything before in my life. Not anymore.  Choosing to write down the pros and cons and look for people with more wisdom than I have to help me with my decision and then implementing said decision....concerning the welfare of my daughter....was empowering. I still struggle with standing up for myself but I'll be damned if I'm ever going to go back to the way I was before. Even if that means people think of me the way you do.

All I can say is that I'm honestly sad for most of you. I pray that your drama is resolved and that you find a way to deal with whatever issues have brought you here.

[MYSONSDAD]

on what YOU wrote.

>.This is why it's taken me so long to make this decision..I wanted to do what's best for our daughter within the limits of the law.

YOU ONLY CAME HERE TO GET SUGGESTIONS ON HOW TO GET HER FATHER OUT OF HER LIFE. AND LET'S DO IT BY THE LIMITS OF THE LAW.
WHAT IS BEST FOR YOUR DAUGHTER IS STABILTY AND ACCESS TO BOTH PARENTS. BEING RESPONSIBLE PARENTS ARE WHAT IS BEST FOR YOUR DAUGHTER, NOT WHAT IS IN THE LAW.

>#273 Actually, Dad works 12 hours a day and is never home and is about to move to Texas with our daughter. Dad has been leaving our daughter with his parents for extended periods of time and then not keeping in regular contact with me. Dad has had our daughter since the very end of February when I left and we made our agreement. Considering the fact that I haven't been gone very long I'm not seeing how I would "frighten my child." It's taken everything I have to not give up and walk away with the reasoning that it would be best for our daughter.

DAD DID NOT KEEP REGULAR CONTACT WITH YOU, MAYBE HE COULD NOT FIND YOU IN ALL YOUR TRAVELS. IN YET ANOTHER POST, YOU SAY YOU WERE ONLY GONE A FEW MONTHS. IN THE ABOVE POST, YOU HAVE BEEN GONE FOR 10 MONTHS.

>I'm Puerto Rican. Latin families don't behave that way with each other. The idea that we should all 'do it on our own' or we're somehow not fit for parenthood is one that is truly absurd and most likely the foundation of most of this country's problems with respect to the huge >divorce rate, children growing up to be monsters and the all out hate >and disdain we haev for each other as a whole. I pray that this attitude >is one that you can re-examine with an honest heart. I again thank y'all for all of your advice. Thank God everything all of you said was wrong on about 34 different levels. Had I listened I would've never seen my daughter again as evidenced by my husband's irresponsible behavior. He says he can't afford child support. man. I really am happy I decided to trust my instincts. thanks anyways!

ALL OF US HERE HAVE STRONG FAMILY VALUES OR WE WOULDN'T BE FIGHTING SO HARD FOR OUR CHILDREN. I PERSONALLY HAVE A VERY STRONG FAMILY UNIT, BUT DO NOT EXPECT HELP IN REGARD TO RAISING MY SON. I CAN DO THAT ON MY OWN.

>#482 I reckon my point was that now that I wasn't exposed to hispanic culture much as a child. Now that I live in Miami, one of the reasons the latin community here distances themselves from 'Americans' (their words not mine) is because they can't understand a culture that isn't as fiercely devoted to family as theirs is.
respect to supporting her and he'll just have to answer to her if she ever finds out.

IF THIS COUNTRY IS SO BAD, WHY ARE YOU HERE? AND HE WILL HAVE TO ANSWER TO HER, NOW THAT TOLD ME A LOT ABOUT YOU.


>#481
 I already said I did not want to bad mouth the father of my child, I don't give a damn if he's feeling disenfranchised or anything else. This man has a history of being a neglectful deadbeat.

IN ONE POST YOU SAY HE WORKS 12 HOURS A DAY. DID YOU OFFER HIM ANY SUPPORT WHEN HE HAD CARE OF YOUR DAUGHTER?
SO NOW HE IS A DEADBEAT. WHAT DOES THAT MAKE YOU?

#484 I have to wonder how this child will end up...MSD REPLY

YOUR SARCASTIC REPLY BACK:

>#485 y'all are about the most bitter, cynical people I've dealt with. My goodness. Have fun wallowing in it. Yup. Good luck with all that.

>#490 I didn't come here to be told that I'm stupid and that I have no parenting skills.

NO ONE HERE POSTED THAT YOU WERE STUPID AND HAD NO PARENTING SKILLS. YOU SAID YOU WERE STUPID, WE DID NOT.

>However my posts were totally ignored. Almost everyone that responded did so with the basic premice of their posts being something along the lines of "you ran off and abandoned your daughter."

YOU RECIEVED GOOD ADVICE AND CHOOSE NOT TO TAKE IT. MANY HERE HAVE EXPERIENCE AND FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE OF THE COURT SYSTEM. YOU ARE HERE LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO TELL YOU, YOU ARE RIGHT.

>If I had done what y'all told me to do, I would've been back at this board not less than a month later complaining and arguing and full of drama and anger and engaging rather nicely in conversation because I put myself into the same situation that most of you are in.

OH, YOU'LL BE BACK. AND WITH MANY MORE PROBLEMS THEN YOU HAVE NOW.


>All I can say is that I'm honestly sad for most of you. I pray that your drama is resolved and that you find a way to deal with whatever issues have brought you here.

IF THE POSTS WERE SO UNBEARABLE FOR YOU, YOU NEVER SHOULD HAVE REPLIED BACK.

AND AS FAR AS THE PROFILE LIE, YOU CAN OPT TO LEAVE THE SPACE BLANK.

WITH EVERYTHING I READ, YOU ARE A VERY CONDESCENDING PERSON. WITH THE DOUBLE TALK YOU DISPLAYED, I WONDER HOW MUCH TRUTH IS IN WHAT YOU IMPLIED ABOUT THE FATHER.

And I do wonder how your child will end up. It's clear you change your tune on what the current need is. You offer no stability. But, your in this country and did you not post negative remarks about the children and how they are raised?

What will you do...

[MixedBag]

We're not the people she described whatsoever....she blew it here.

[olanna]

"Between my husband and my mother's family, I've always been told that I'm worthless."

Why would such a perfect, loving, family oriented unit as your own ever tell you anything of the sort? You have a lot of contradictions in your story...not to mention the "y'all" thing you used. I live in an area where there are many latinos and I have never heard one of them use the term "y'all"...

Guess there is a first time for everything.

[Meighan]

I just re-read this entire thread.  From the very beginning, most of the people, such as YOU mixed bag, gave "advice" based upon whatever you felt like addressing as opposed to addressing every single thing that I said in every post....verbatim. You weren't overtly mean. I apologize for making generalizations regarding everyone instead of singling out those who were being mean.  For example you said something long the lines of "so you intend to bring your daughter back to Florida and file?" One of you (GR8Dad) mentioned the interstate child custody act, being arrested for kidnapping, taking her away from a father that's had her for a very long time (even though it was only a few months..the length of most summer visitations for a NCP) and having my daughter taken from me and receiving supervised visitation for the duration of her childhood because I'm an unstable flight risk.  That was totally out of line and indicative of none of you reading my posts...or taking the time to understand what was going on.  After nicely trying to keep up with the crap that was flying out of y'all's keyboards, I finally gave up and got defensive....wondering where the hell this stuff was coming from. Most all of you totally jumped the gun, didn't really read all of my posts and shot off at the mouth about stuff that you incorrectly assumed. You may very well have custody of a kid that isn't biologically your own. But that has nothing to do with my situation.  Your attitude was scathing and rife with "I know more than you, do what I say because I'm right and your attorney knows nothing." Wrong.  Thank God I had the lawyer I did, that's the reason things turned out the way they with my daughter's custody.  As far as me being "back with more problems" I bet you'd like that wouldn't you? Then it would make the mess you've most likely made of YOUR situation seem a little better than it is. Since my daughter's daddy doesn't care now just like he didn't care back then and has chosen to remove himself from her life, the only problems I can foresee involving having to try to explain to her why her daddy didn't care.  

I was asked more than once how long he had my daughter even though I restated it 20138423084 times. The more I answered, the more I was told "you're not stable." Damn right a mother is going to get defensive when she's told that she's not able to care for her child. Especially when she is.  All of this started because , understandably so, most of you saw what you wanted to see and ignored the rest because the dictates of human nature state that everything we do is based upon self above all else. Practically applied, when we talk on the internet it's not to interact.  It's to be recognized and lauded and paid attention to....regardless of whether or not what we say is accurate or even wholly wrong.  The very first response I receieved to my original post was something along the lines of "are you sure you can take care of your daughter?" Umm..ok what the hell kind of parent would run off with no way to pay the bills, feed their child or otherwise provide a stable home? Some do certainly. But come on now. It's obviously clear by my posts that I DO give a damn and I DO DO my best for my daughter.  I've done everything I could to keep her daddy in her life when everyone around me said to RUN because of how unhealthy he was for Maria.  I wouldn't have the balls to to go out of my way to engage people who could potentially be wiser than me in alot of areas and teach me a thing or two if I seriously did not give a damn about my child.  



This isn't directly in reply to this post. It's to everything. Anyways, semantics are critical. We have to pay close attention or somewhere along the way we're going to get lost.  It's apparent that this is what's happened here and for that I'm sorry.

I never said my 'family unit' was perfect. I  spoke of my mother.  I then spoke of HER family. There most certainly is a difference between the two. My mother's family came here from Ireland a couple generations ago, and settled in North Carolina.  My mother married a man from Puerto Rico.  Maybe you haven't heard of many latinos that use the word 'y'all' I didn't realize it was of such consequence. I guess I am unique in that respect. And FYI...Puerto Rico is part of the United States. I think I was told to "get out of your country" or to "go back to my own."  Yeah. That'll work. And I'm not "racist" or nor do I have something against other cultures.  I'm only going to say this one more time and then write y'all off as retards.  Hispanic culture is markedly different than American culture. It has nothing to do with me "hating Americans" or anything else. There are things that latin people do that couldn't be understood by those who live in the United States proper and there are things that Latins do and believe that would be construed as strange or different.  Latin culture as a whole views and treats family relations totally different than modern "americans" do.  That's a truth that doesn't detract from the worth of the "american" family at all. It's just how things are.  It's marked and understood my most people. I can't understand why anyone would get upset by my statement of the obvious.  As if that's somehow a negative reflection of you.  That's your bad for feeling that way.

As far as everything else goes let me clarify. I will simplify as much as I can and then leave it at that.  I should probably turn off my topic reply thing because I keep getting emails that y'all have replied and I end up looking at them.

This is the thing.  I met my husband when I was in H.S. He was in the Navy. As was my father. Which pretty much explains all of "travels" that you made mention of. My husband's parents didn't want him with someone that's so different from what they're used to, (different race, different culture, different personality...etc;)and he chose them over me. I'll be 25 in a few weeks, and since I was 18 I followed this man from one duty station to another and then finally to Oklahoma, where he is from. If you paid attention to my previous posts, you'll see how I said when I was younger, before I had my daughter, I wasn't terribly responsible.  I did my best to fix things within my very limited and immature understanding of what it means to be an adult and I failed.  I went back to him time and time again because I was insecure and scared of being alone. He was married when I met him, his wife was in Florida and he lied about that. I found out much later. It was one lie after another and a huge awful mess.  

After he left me the first time because of our daughter, I went to NC to live with my great aunt and then went up to PA where my mother is for the obvious reason that she is my mother and I wanted to be close to her.  I begged my husband to try again and fix things and he moved to PA finally.  We lived there for three years until it fell apart again and we decided to try ONE MORE TIME.  We moved in again with his parents in Oklahoma and again, the same thing happened.  I left at the end of February and went to get her at the end of September.  I wasn't gone for "ten months" Ever. I've never been away from my daughter for 10 months. That's just absurd.  Nor did I ever say anything EVER about taking my daughter away from her father or keeping her away from him.
Emotionalism typically results in incorrect statements such as the above.

Moving right along....This time I stayed away.  We agreed that when I left it would be his first summer with her and that I would use that time to get on my feet. After that he would have her in the summer time and so on and so on.  My husband was indeed, working 12 hours a day this past summer. That was the FIRST JOB he'd held longer than 3 months since he'd gotten out of the Navy 2 years prior to that. His parents were raising my daughter. And sure I gave him money for our daughter. I'm not sure what it was used for since she had no clothes or shoes or anything when I went to get her. Nevertheless, it doesn't matter.

Since I first posted everything I've said was torn apart as if I'm on trial and I don't understand. There is no double talk. There is no lies. And if I did lie and am a man ..which is aboslutely hillarious...then why are you even bothering with me? I didn't touch my profile because I didn't care to fill it out. If it ended up reporting the wrong gender that's the board aministrator's bad. So, let's recap.  Puerto Rico is part of the United States. It's not some foreign country.  The culture is markedly different but it's still part of the United States. I am a citizen =)  Furthermore, if you bothered to stop looking for ways to argue with me and READ WHAT I SAY you won't findny of the lies you'd like to believe I've told.  I've repeated myself 20384203848 times...and always said the same thing.

  Bottom line, The attitude here is horrible. I made one other post about mother's relationships with their children..it was totally respectable, not beligerent or otherwise condescending and I was sent an email from someone here telling me to "watch out because I could piss off alot of people with what I said." What the HELL is that? I'm signed up for a couple different boards and this is the only one that I have ever dealt with that behaves this way.  

[MYSONSDAD]

This was what I said...Get things right

>IF THIS COUNTRY IS SO BAD, WHY ARE YOU HERE? <

You can check this for yourself. The post also has a date and time on it.

Your excuse:
>I think I was told to "get out of your country" or to "go back to my own." Yeah. That'll work. And I'm not "racist" or nor do I have something against other cultures.<

 > I'm only going to say this one more time and then write y'all off as retards. Hispanic culture is markedly different than American culture. It has nothing to do with me "hating Americans" or anything else.<

Now, with a statement like that, who gives a shit about YOU. No one here will give you the time of day and your feelings are hurt.....

And about the so called e-mails you say you have been receiving. Some how I doubt it. You have a very warped way of twisting the truth. You also change statements as time goes on, May I suggest... YOU GO BACK TO YOUR OTHER BOARDS. You might find solice there.

 
"Children learn what they live"

[olanna]

so why don't you just go find some other winners board and gloat there. I am personally tired of the dramatics and I am sick to my stomach to think that you yanked this kid out of one home because "you are Mom" and the kid is supposed to be with you because your heart was broken.

Ya know, I don't give a rat's ass if he did drop you off at a homeless shelter because you wouldn't put the child up for adoption. It's history and obviously, his feelings changed, as feelings will, when he had to buck up and take care of her. This also tells me loads about you, in as much as there are many women that had unplanned pregnancies here, and even without supporting mates, they STILL were able to manage and take care of the kids.

You know what I see? I see a helpless little drama queen, that dumped her kid on the Dad, drifted from man to man, and then suddenly had an epiphany that the kid meant money, either from Dad or the state and went back to collect her beloved baby.

Of course, now the distance makes it impossible for Dad to parent his daughter. So now YOU are the good guy and you can make him look like a junk yard dog.  And I don't care what color you are or what nationality you claim, you saw easy money and you took it.  BRAVO.

FYI...I am the one that warned you about writing posts that referred to the "Mom's conforting womb" and the special bond between MOm and child, as MANY of the posters on this board can attest that there are incubators and then there are Moms.  To give the illusion that all mom's are wonderful, loving, caregivers, by NATURE, as your post pointed out, is a complete joke.  If someone posted that same post and put Dad everywhere the word Mom was placed, it would have seemed just as ludicrous as the post you made. I warned you about it, because, frankly, it just isn't so and you could easily be chewed up and spit out over it. I was actually trying to be nice and warm and welcoming...

I can only hope that someday you grow up and understand what it really means to be a parent. And for chrissakes, drop the victim roll; it's so unbecoming.

[wendl]

Well I was YOUNG and SINGLE when I became pregnant with my son. I was laid off from my job when I was 5 months pregnant, I went thru the entire pregancy ALONE, I gave birth with my friend and some family there, my roommate moved out on me, my ex didn't help nor does he now help with our son. I DID IT ALONE. My ex didn't want me to keep our chlid, I did and I am raising him, HOWEVER I try to help my ex understand how important it is for him to be invovled with his son, which after 12yrs he is now trying and even though he pisses me off sometimes by his action, they are HIS actions and I have no control over them, everyone grows up at different stages in life, everyone is only in control of their own feeleing and actions.

Also my sons grandpa (on dads side) didn't accept my son for a long long time, then he grew up, and let his pride go (as he was upset my son doesn't carry their last name) now he realized what an ass he was and is a great grandpa now.

I don't care for people who try and have people take pitty on them, the only thing in life we have control over is ourselves, our actions and our beliefs. My son and I are not the evil of my ex's problems he choose to take one path I choose another and so on.

Grow up and you will feel no pitty from me.

Now I have a wonderfull husband whom is a great dad however his ex likes to create drama. This is about kids and how they should have the right to BOTH parents equally not one whom thinks just because she carried the child for 9 months she should have the control HELL NO, it takes two to create a child and it takes 2 parents to raise them.

**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

[Stepmom0418]

AMEN!!!!!!

[Davy]

but what a great job.  

This person DOES NOT represent the Latino community, or women, and more importantly motherhood.  

I suspect she will CONTINUE to be a BURDEN to everybody everywhere and especially the child.