Taxes

[Renee]

In my husbands divorce decree he allowed her to claim all five of the children for income tax purposes (that is the only way she would sign).  He is responsible for 67% of the support of the children and that is the only income she has (she works here and there but mostly doesn't work at all).  We end up having to claim the money paid for child support but yet she doesn't have to claim it as income.  We now have the kids anywhere from 10-12 days a month during the school year and every other week in the summer.  We are planning on going before the judge sometime before the 2007 taxes and seeing if he will modify the divorce decree to allow us to claim possibly 2 children one year and then 3 the next.  Does anyone know the best way to go about this?  We are keeping receipts already.  Also, is it unheard of that this happens?  Any advice would be appreciated.

[Jade]

>In my husbands divorce decree he allowed her to claim all
>five of the children for income tax purposes (that is the only
>way she would sign).  He is responsible for 67% of the support
>of the children and that is the only income she has (she works
>here and there but mostly doesn't work at all).  We end up
>having to claim the money paid for child support but yet she
>doesn't have to claim it as income.  We now have the kids
>anywhere from 10-12 days a month during the school year and
>every other week in the summer.  We are planning on going
>before the judge sometime before the 2007 taxes and seeing if
>he will modify the divorce decree to allow us to claim
>possibly 2 children one year and then 3 the next.  Does anyone
>know the best way to go about this?  We are keeping receipts
>already.  Also, is it unheard of that this happens?  Any
>advice would be appreciated.

It's not unheard of for one parent to get all exemptions.  I got the exemptions for both of my kids through emancipation.  

Child support is not income to the CP as that is for the support of the children.  

It depends on what the agreement says.  The wording on mine is that I get both through emancipation.  And my ex signed it, I also had him initial each and every page of the agreement so that he couldn't pull any stunts (he had already reneged on one agreement) and try to change it.  If the wording is similar on the father's, then he may be out of luck.  

What he can do is keep track of his parenting time and file for a child support modification based on that.  He could also go to court and try to get the exemptions, but that may not be successful.  

[mistoffolees]

There are a lot of issues here that might change things.

First, if your family income is high enough, the exemptions are worth little or nothing to you. Exemptions start to phase out at something like $130 K for a married filer.

Second, if she's working even a little bit, she's probably gettting EIC when she files the taxes as head of household with 5 kids. The court may rule that taking the EIC away from her will cause the kids more harm than the benefit they get from you having the deductions.

Third, I don't know what you mean by 'claiming the money paid for child support'. Child support is not deductible on your return, nor is it income on her return. It is paid for the benefit of the kids - just as it would be if you had never divorced. Only court-ordered alimony is deductible.

You should probably do a bunch of math to determine the benift to you and the loss to her and then get with an attorney. It's quite possible that you'll find it isn't worth the trouble.

If you decide to go for it, I have no idea what to do. Your attorney can tell you. I can imagine that this is the kind of thing that courts don't really want to be bothered with and they're going to set a pretty high barrier for showing that there's a change in circumstance before they'll consider a change.

[Stirling]

If the BM is not working then she has no tax liability so the personal exemptions for the children are being wasted.  See if you can cut a deal with her when you would split the tax savings related to you claiming the children.  This way everyone comes out ahead.  

[Sherry1]

off of CS only for several years.  It was her only source of income and if I had that kind of money coming in, I wouldn't have worked either!

[mistoffolees]

In practice, I realize that this happens.

In principle, it should not. CS is for the kid(s). If the CP has no other income, what is he/she eating and wearing? Obviously, they're taking money that's supposed to be for the kids.

Seems to me that it should be possible to claim that they're stealing CS money, but I don't know if a judge would ever accept that.

[mistoffolees]

>If the BM is not working then she has no tax liability so the
>personal exemptions for the children are being wasted.  

This is not true.

The OP says that BM is working on occasion. That means that she's eligible for EIC - which makes these deductions very valuable, indeed.

[Jade]

>off of CS only for several years.  It was her only source of
>income and if I had that kind of money coming in, I wouldn't
>have worked either!

For tax purposes, it is not income to the CP.  

[Sherry1]

in rags half the time.  She used food stamps (that is how they ate) as well as medicaid (that is how they got medical attention).  DH was court ordered to pay health insurance, but with medicaid as her secondary insurance, she never had to pay a copay of any sort.  She lived with a boyfriend who paid the rent, but he didn't pay for anything else.  

She finally had no choice but to get off her ass and get a job when YSS committed juvenile felony at 12 and she was required to pay back restitution.  She couldn't swing that off of what she was getting for CS as well as support herself and her kids.

[notnew]

There are no laws regulating how the CP can use CS and there are accountability requirements. I disagree with this 100% however, I don't believe there will be any changes in this anytime soon.

HOWEVER, if she is receiving public assistance, another issue comes to light. The kids don't need medical assistance. She most likely has not informed DSS that they have health insurance through dad's court order. They may be interested in knowing this.

Also, they SHOULD know that she is getting CS and how much, meaning they should have a copy of the order or be communicating with CSE.

It is beyond me how these agencies cannot communicate!

How does she explain the BF? We all know a lot of people are on welfare living with someone so it must be easy to get around. However, I would definitely let DSS know the kids have health insurance and the medical assistance is being used as a secondary insurance. I don't think that is what it is intended for. JMHO

Pisses me off - our taxes paying for this crap!

[Sherry1]

but her income was so "low" she qualified for medicaid to pay the copays.  It really is quite common.  And yes, that is how it worked and always worked.  DH's medical insurance lapsed and medicaid was on him like bees on honey.  When it was reinstated, he sent copies to medicaid.  Medicaid has always been aware of DH's primary insurance status.  DH was court ordered to pay via garnishment to the state for CS, they knew how much it was and that BM received it.  

BM worked the system for years by living with someone and collecting full benefits for herself and the kids.  It is what it is.

[Sherry1]

can claim the kids for EIC regardless of who claims them on their taxes.  

[notnew]

Yeah. I know. Still sucks.

I don't understand how people can live like that and live with theirselves. I wouldn't be able to.

[Sherry1]

going for CS that I had to make up the difference in the budget... his CS had been established on what "she" wanted not what was guideline in the beginning.  AFter I was with DH for about a year he filed for a downward mod.  She bitched complained and moaned about it, but she also knew she probably couldn't fight it, so CS finally went down to the point of where we could breathe.  She still worked the system for years after that.  

[mistoffolees]

You're right - I messed that one up. EIC doesn't depend on the deduction. My mistake.

Given that, I'd tell the ex that I want the tax deductions and will give her 25% of the savings in exchange.

If you were filing for the first time, it would not be hard to get the judge to rule in your favor - and give DH the deduction. In general, the courts will rule what is best for the kids and it's clearly better if one parent gets some benefit for the deductions rather than leaving the deductions with someone who can't use them.

I'm not sure that you're going to get the judge to change it now, though. Usually, there has to be some change in circumstances to justify a decision like you're asking. If there are other changes in circumstances, then ask for this and you might get it. If you can't demonstrate any significant change in circumstances, the judge may not even hear it.

[Sherry1]

was he "paid" BM for the deductions for about 4 years since they were meaninless for her.   I think DH paid her $400 the year she had two exemptions.  She gladly took the money and gave DH the deduction, it worked out well for us!

[gemini3]

It happens all the time my friend.  There are people out there who live like parasites - trust me, my ex does the same thing.  Lives with her BF, everything is in his name - brand new vehicle with all the bells and whistles (and sunroof, dvd players, etc.), cell phone, residence in a gated community - the whole nine.  

Meanwhile her sole income is the CS I pay, and the kids have medical through me.  She's "supposed" to pay $250 a year in medical expenses, but she never does.  Since it's all under my name and SSN, if she doesn't pay it, I have no choice but to pay so I do.  She's getting (that I know of) food stamps and has kids signed up for free lunch at school.  According the the Federal Regulations on this, she is supposed to claim all the income in the household - but she obviously isn't or they would never qualify.

You would THINK that someone would put two and two together, and realize that there's NO WAY a woman and two children could live on the CS alone (it would cover rent and that's about it around here), and realize that there's other income coming from somewhere that she's not claiming.  But they don't.  They don't care - it's not their money, right?  

Anyone for welfare reform??

[Sherry1]

and during the summer the skids got free meals also.  

[gemini3]

amazing, isn't it?

[Renee]

Taxes are definately not my thing but I always thought that after claiming three of the children it didn't make that big of a difference.  Also, she is pregnant again with her current husbands child but I don't know if that makes a difference or not?  I guess if they file seperately then maybe he will claim just the one?  But, if they file jointly then how does that work when he is technically claimng my husbands bio children?  I am sorry it all confuses me.  My husband regrets allowing her to do that in the first place but she used them as bargaining chips.  We have nine children together and out of the nine we only get to claim two.  I was nice enough to allow my ex to claim two even though I only recieve $366 a month in CS because he doesn't work that much.  We just get taken every year and since we have the kids more and pay for extra things on top of CS I thought maybe it would "even" things out if we got to claim the kids too.  While she wasn't working she went and got her tubal reversed and got pregnant and then went on medicaid.  Go figure!  Anyway, I think she gets that fraudulently.  She is also guilty of working the system...I agree with one of the other posters....how do they look in the mirror each day?

Also, thank you for your replies.

[mistoffolees]

>Taxes are definately not my thing but I always thought that
>after claiming three of the children it didn't make that big
>of a difference.  Also, she is pregnant again with her current

That's not true. More kids = more deductions. The value of the deductions starts to go away if the family has high enough income, but not due to number of kids.

>husbands child but I don't know if that makes a difference or
>not?  I guess if they file seperately then maybe he will claim
>just the one?  But, if they file jointly then how does that
>work when he is technically claimng my husbands bio children?

THAT's the rest of the story. Even if your ex isnt' working, if her husband is making money and they're filing jointly, then the deductions ARE worth a great deal to them. You should have mentioned that in the first post - since the answer would have been different.

It doesn't matter whether your husband's ex is working or not - as long as there's family income, the deductions are worthwhile. And, yes, her new husband can claim the children on his taxes (actually, the husband and wife are claiming the children on their joint taxes).

Under the circumstances, it seems unlikely that you're going to be able to get a change in the tax situation. You have an agreement in place and the courts don't like to change existing agreements unless there's been a change in circumstances - and there's no sign of that.