Action Alert~Illinois. We CAN make a difference...

[MYSONSDAD]

==================================
Shared Parenting Action Alert
==================================


The time has come to make your opinions known to our state
legislators that parents and children need Shared Parenting
and a more practical child support model.

Please take time over the next week or so to start calling and then
faxing State Representatives and Senators to ask them to support the
Shared Parenting bill being sponsored by Rep Richard Myers, Paul
Froehlich, and Sidney Mathias--and clearly everyone you talk to that
you do NOT support the proposed bill by the Illinois State Bar which
would water-down the definition of "parent."

We've worked long and hard over the past 12 months to make our Shared
Parenting proposal a reality. There would be NOTHING WORSE than to
have a family court system already run amok by outdated and unworkable
statutes to be modified in such a way that provides an even more
difficult environment for fit parents in our family court system.

Also let them know that Illinois' child support statutes are in dire
need of reform, and are damaging to blended families of non-custodial
parents.

If you have questions or would care to share letters or conversations
you've had with state lawmakers, please feel free to do so.


Thank you for your time and consideration.



Sincerely yours,


Michael Burns
Executive Director
Dialog on Sustainable Community
Chicago, IL



"Children learn what they live"

[Davy]

In summary, what is the content of the proposed Shared Parenting bill and the proposed bill by the Illinois State Bar which would water-down the definition of "parent. ??

Does the Shared Parenting bill give rise to more false accusations because it contains language similiar to 'absent DV' ?  

Are there any provisions for immediate removal of attorneys and judges that do not heed any jurisprudence what-so-ever ??

[Hazel]

They've managed to successfully eliminate any definition of "Emancipation" for adult children.  Several years ago, there were well defined criteria for emancipation, i.e. marriage, joining the armed forces, etc... Now these criteria have DISAPPEARED.  I've been studying case law regarding college support, and the only reference to emancipation I can find in any of the statutes is in regards to emancipated minors.  The state of Illinois now does not consider a child of divorce "emancipated" until they receive a BACHELOR's DEGREE.  And, according to our attorney, if it takes 10 years to earn said degree, then we're on the hook to pay for 10 years.  (Yes, we're looking for another attorney - know of anyone???)

The state legislators, I believe, deliberately did this so that those of us who pay support would have to continue to do so indefinately...x(   After paying for 17 years, and looking forward to the graduation date, IT WILL NEVER END if they have their way!!!!

This makes me absolutely sick.

[MYSONSDAD]

I know EXACTLY how you feel. This is something I have also researcehd. My uncle got divorced 6 months ago, his son is in college, my uncle does not have to pay support on him. But, uncle and his ex both agreed to it. I think that is the only way out.

Some time ago, a father from McHenry was ordered to pay or go to jail. He had a second family and a baby who needed constant medical care. The court sideswiped the sick child and ruled in favor of his first child to a college education. They held a candlelight vigil. From what I understand, he came up with the money and nothing more has been mentioned about how it ended up. I do know, he did not have to serve time.

There are many wrongs in this State. It is like we live in the dark ages...

[MYSONSDAD]

"Children learn what they live"

[Hawkeye]

This certainly deserves more research. If things are so messed up in Ill, then they're going to be messed up everywhere else.


Perhaps we should enlist Oprah? No joke. And Dr. Phil. Maybe the media is a major part of the whole struggle.


Doesn't anyone care about the kids equal access to both parents anymore???

[c_alexander]

There is one other way out of paying the support. We could all get together and say "NO"...what are they going to do arrest us all? Take away or licenses? (we could say "no" to that too). I say we all pull from the examples of Ghandi, Martin Luterh King Jr. and others and tell them morons "NO MORE"!

Sorry this just makes me so mad sometimes.

THE TIME FOR CHANGE IS NOW!


THE DISGRUNTLED RIBBON GUY
CHRIS

[Davy]

... Growing Up in a Changing World (1983) by Vance Packard and publisted by Little and Brown; pg 244 "many states began passing laws specifying that in custody matters their courts would respect the court decision in the state where the grant of custody originated.  But there were always 'safe' states, a dozen or so, including Illinois and Washington."

Packard (1914 - ????) wrote of many social-ills and in this particular book he focused on the sickness of all the issues of the break-down of the family unit and particularly focused on the effects of children which he claims began in the mid 1960's.  One point I'm trying to make is that what ya'll are experiencing today has been rehearsed many many many times before you .... it is my strong opinion that any positive changes have occured because of the damage that has been put apon children that could not somehow be covered up or excused.  Changes did not happen because we politely ASKED politicans to do anything.      

While supporting ALL efforts to correct a broken system I hope most of all that your children are protected and survive.

[Genie]

my DH's divorce stated CS ends at 18 or graduate HS, whichever comes last.  College will be paid by both parents pro rated on income levels.  College must of 4 consecutive years (sure would pay if it took longer b/c you can't really do it in 4 yrs anymore) immediately following college unless join the military first.

IL is not as bad as what it is being made out to be here.  But it does hold the first family first. And guess what, we should all know that going into another marriage with more kids.  I am the SM and I  have a 4 year old with a disability. I would never ask that DH's CS be dropped b/c of this. I think he is supposed to pay a fair amount. Why should his other children suffer b/c I decided to have another child. And I have another on the way.  That is my decision to make. I knew this going into the marriage.  

I don't know the story of the McHenry man (I live about an hour from there) but do know that there are many places he could've gotten help with those medical bills.  My daughter had a valve still open in her heart after birth. I was set up with an organization that basically covered her cardiology bills that insurance didn't pay.  I'm not saying this man was at fault or anything but if the children from his first marriage lived with him, he would still do what he needed for them to make sure they had what they needed.

I know I am going to be flamed for this but I think you need to do what is needed for all of your children.  I think IL is fair in their CS calculations. It is a percentage of NCP's net income. Other states calculate at much higher amounts and even take new spouse's income into account. DH's ex's attorney tried to get my income heard in court before. DH dodged the question stating he didn't know what I made (he didn't honestly) and it was never ordered to be shown.

My DH has gone through periods of not paying and it was his fault. You don't do that to your kids. His kids suffered ALOT b/c of it and he would deserve it to be thrown in jail for it too.

What area are you in? If you are by me I can recommend an attorney that really fought for my DH and really knows the law etc. She is prompt, calls you back and is upfront with you. I loved her. Let me know and I can give you her name and number if you are close enough.

[Hazel]

Thanks very much for the info.

As for Illinois being "fair" in child support calculations, I have to respectfully disagree with you.  The fact that the CP income is not considered makes it less fair than other states.  In Illinois, the CP could win the lottery and become a millionare, and the NCP's payment would not decrease one bit.  You see, it's not about providing for the child, it's about punishment.

Admittedly, I've become a little bitter.  I've been in the Illinois CS system for 15 years now.  DH currently pays $1100.00 for one child, and that's just not right.  It has nothing to do with subsequent children... Child Support needs to be based on the child's actual needs.  In our case, BM makes only 20K per year, so we now supply more than half of her income, and she doesn't pay a dime of tax on child support, as we all know.  She has never been motivated to use that money to better her condition via more schooling, but rather uses it for vacations and tanning instead.  She has been continually rewarded because of her ex's exemplary work ethic.  This is a man who went back to college and got a bachelor's degree while also working 50 hours per week and supporting another family.  He works hard, she sits on her butt and reaps the benefits.  He made only 6 dollars per hour at the time of the divorce.  She is fighting like hell now to keep that child support money coming in, in spite of the fact that her "child" is now an adult.  She does not feel that her "child" should need to attend college classes full time or have any required GPA to collect college support.  (Here comes another generation of "do-nothings" who will expect to have their way paid for them while they sit on the couch playing Play Station and munching on Doritos.  Hey, why not? It worked for Mom!!!)

In addition, you are incorrect in stating that Illinois does not consider spousal income.  They started doing so about 2 years ago.  In the event that your DH is taken back to court for more CS, they can and WILL consider YOUR income.  You may want to research this further.

My DH has paid and paid and paid - for 17 years, ever since his ex kicked him to the curb because she had someone else and decided she was "too young" to be married.  He's never missed a payment and has never been late.  The time has come now for it to be OVER, but it won't be.

The CS system has created a bunch of entitled, lazy brats.  That's just my opinion....

I'm absolutely not flaming you, so please don't take it that way.  I'm just extremely frustrated at being told that Illinois isn't "that bad", when  my own experience tells me otherwise.:(

[MYSONSDAD]

And not only are you correct on all of the above, you can also plan on turning over copies of your tax return every year so they can suck some more of your money in the name of CS.

Funny how they won't give you time when visitation is denied...

[TPK]

" It is a percentage of NCP's net
>income. Other states calculate at much higher amounts and even
>take new spouse's income into account"

Geez, net income is much better than the 17% of my GROSS income CS that I pay in NY. I have no problem paying CS, but sometimes it feels like spousal support too.

TPK

[MYSONSDAD]

Spousal support is factored in, just hidden.

Currently, I pay 24% net, close to 16-17% gross.

What also should be factored in is, who does the majority of driving? Who supplies Health Insurance? My ex does nothing in regard to supplying our childs needs. She is unable to comprehend weather conditions. Our son will be dressed properly in my care. I supply clothing appropriately. And it is never returned. Another, out of pocket expense.

"Children learn what they live"

[Genie]

b/c compared to other states it is much fairer.  Of course if you make more you pay more.  And unfortunately there is no accountability to how the money is used. Believe me, we have gone through that. Had to buy clothes and shoes for SKs many times b/c she wasn't using the money for them but to support herself and boyfriend who didn't work regularly.  But how do you actually account for it?  When we were in court one time both DH and ex had to do a financial statement.  She basically stated she spends X amount on clothes and school and stuff a month when we knew that wasn't true. But she made it look like the CS was being used for the kids for the judge.  How do you prove otherwise? I do know there is one state (can't remember which one) that does have some sort of accountability law but I don't know if it actually is used and works well.

As for college I totally believe the child should have to maintain a certain GPA (at least a C) to continue getting school paid for etc.  But I'm not all that familiar with college b/c my SD opted not to go and my SS probably won't go unless he gets his act together before he starts HS in the Fall.

As for CS, my DH has been in court in the last several months for CS reasons and never once has my income been asked about or taken into consideration.  In fact I was recently reading through divorce and CS law in IL and didn't see anything in it on spouses income added.  Where did you see this or read this?  Can you give me some links to look at b/c CSE sure hasn't asked about me.

I know every case is different. I believe $1100 for 1 child is too much too but how do they cap it?  Should states say you get XX amount for 1 child, X amount for 2 children etc etc?  The logic is supposed to be that the child living the same standard as if they were still married. Unfortunately it is the ex that thinks she should be living the same standard instead and takes from the child to get what they want.  Wish I had the answers on how to make better. I don't think any state with all the different ways to calculate CS that is out there has figured this out yet.

[Genie]

I believe I know what you are talking about with this one.

The spouses income isn't used with CS calculations but when figuring out who pays what percentage or amount for college, they do look at the parent's and spouse's incomes on both sides.  Unfortunately with the big difference in income on your side compared to ex's, I'm sure you guys are basically footing the bill.  

[Hazel]

Genie, I appreciate your dialogue on this matter.  :)  I'm very glad to hear that your income has never been considered, and I hope it stays that way.  Here's a link with some info:

http://www.divorcenet.com/states/illinois/ilart_10

Look carefully at paragraphs 4 and 6.

The issue I have with Illinois is that if the NCP makes a lot of money, as my DH admittedly does, then the CP gets off without having to contribute one thin dime.  Honestly, having this kind of money rolling in has changed her and has made her totally blood thirsty for more...

There are lots and lots of ways to calculate the actual cost of raising children, but our lovely legislature won't do that because it's too much work... Far easier (read "lazy") to say "20%, no exceptions!" and slam the gavel down.  DH and I have 4 children of our own, and I could tell you almost to the penny what I spend on them each month.  I personally think that child support should be limited to $500.00 for one child.  Assuming the CP contributes something, then any child could be WELL cared for on that kind of money.

The thing with other states is that most of them consider the CP's income rather than just the NCP's.  I calculated our CS burden using North Carolina's method (just to see), and it came out that with all things being equal, we'd be paying $500.00 less per month in North Carolina...  That's nearly half as much as we're paying now!!  So I do think there are other states that have it more together than Illinois.

Typically, the incomes of the bio parents aren't so far apart as ours are... If the CP makes a salary that's even in the same ballpark as the NCP, then it could be assumed that both parents are contributing to the support of the child.  But in our case, we've paid the entire bill for many years, and that has a tendency to make a person bitter and angry.  And to add insult to injury, Illinois statutes repeatedly state that BOTH parents are responsible for providing financial support for the child, yet in our case that just isn't so and nobody even wants to hear about it.

And now... even though we've already paid much more than our fair share, they still won't remove their claws from our behinds... No matter how much we pay or have paid, it will never be enough... :(

[Davy]

I have really been trying hard to bite my tongue concerning this thread.
IL is known amongst reasonably thinking people as one of the most politically corrupt and the largest welfare states in the nation.  Even Abraham Lincoln spoke of the governments favortism toward obnoxious women (in so many words).  The IL CS issues are the tip of the iceberg when considering all the social issues but most blatantly a corrupted judiciary.  

I have to ask.  What is the legislative reasoning behind CS payments awarded to a divorced parent of a college student but not to college students from intact families ??

As I recall, the original IL CS bill passed as a rider to a Public Aid bill submitted on the night of the last session before a Christmas break with little discussion.  It was based on a percentage of gross income (?) and the number of children ... 21% for 1 child, 23% for 2, and 25% for 3 or more.  

[Genie]

that is why my 2nd post stated they can take it into consideration for college expenses.

Have you actually ever heard of anyone that had spouse's figured for a minor's CS figure?  Has this happened to you?

I always have said that if they try to take my income for CS, I will file for Separation and be done with that!!! It isn't my job to support DH's kids - it is his job to do that.  

I'm not very familiar with the whole college/continued CS issue b/c I haven't lived it yet. I hope you get this figured out soon. How old is the child in your case and how long has he been going to college? How much longer do you think he will be going for?

As for the ex, well the thought of her losing that money and her having to actually get a better paying job or another to support herself is just horrible. I mean that is $1100 she will be losing. That is alot of money. She wouldn't be able to pay her bills on $20K. Poor poor victim ex wife.  

Believe me I know what you are talking about here. And totally agree that $500 is more than enough to spend on a child per month. I don't even spend that much on my daughter including day care.  But day care is usually considered separate issue.

Hope this ends for you soon.  Hopefully she won't be having him drag out his degree just so she can keep that money.

[Genie]

20%, 27% and 32%.  And I have heard what you are saying about IL before but never experienced it myself.  

I don't agee that a child of divorce should be given this right to college paid by parents when intact parents can decide to not contribute a dime if they choose.  But I know there are many other states that do the same exact thing.  

I guess I consider IL fairer than some others b/c all I hear about is how horrible California and New York are for CS figuring ect.  And I have always thought my DH's amount for 2 children was very fair and adequate. However I wouldn't feel that way if he was paying $1100 for 1 child as Hazel's DH is.  We are too different situations. And your situation is very different than mine has been too.  That is why you have different feelings on it.

[Davy]

OK.  Just isolating the discussion to IL CS then please explain why three darling kids would receive ZERO CS from their high income parents.

Let me give you a hint.  An IL State District court ignored a Federal court order.  They refused the rulings of the IL appelate and supremes.  A court continued despite a recusal.  That is just for starters.    

The last written communication (a Class B Felony warrant) I had from IL started out with "you did, against the peace and dignity of the people of the state of Illinois".   That document made for good refrigertor material for a while ...later (years) I discovered there had been a hearing and those peaceful and dignified people of the state of Illinois won and the political hacks lost.  

PS ...in Tx judges used to increase CS payments just for filing a motion for denial of visitation....some of that stopped when an IL father shot up a Tx court room and when .... or never mind  

[TPK]

.
>
>What also should be factored in is, who does the majority of
>driving? Who supplies Health Insurance?


I'm in NJ and seem to be doing ALL the driving right now to NY. It's a PITA and something that will be addressed in court soon. I'm also paying the healthcare bill of $700.00 per month. My wife & I communicate when the weather looks bad, and always setup some make-up time if I miss any visitation. Clothing is always returned to each other. I guess some people have it worse than me.


TPK

[MYSONSDAD]

http://www.isba.org/Legislative/familylawroundup.html

"Children learn what they live"

[Hazel]

"Corrupt"... That's it in a nutshell, absolutely.  Illinois is one of the states where the LEAST amount of thought is put into legislation regarding Child Support.  The "Land of Lincoln" is merely the "Land of the Status Quo."  

Thanks for your post.

[Hazel]

Hi Genie,

I do not know of any spouses in Illinois who have had their income considered for child support, but this is only because believe it or not, I do not have any friends in Illinois who are divorced.  (I live in South Carolina right now.)

As to your other question, DH's child is not in college yet, but will be graduating from High School in June.  According to two different attorneys, we are obligated to pay not only college costs but also living expenses until she gets a bachelor's degree - no matter how long that takes.

Best Regards,
Hazel

[doright]

I was personally involved in that case, the Franke case. I know the Dad very well. I helped him win his appeal to this ruling, doing it pro se.  The Illinois Apellate case reversed Judge Condon's ruling. Totally overturned it.

He had to post a bond to avoid jail time, that's how he avoided it. Also, in court, Judge Condon told Franke that he'd would garnish 100% of his paycheck as well, which I think is NOT legal to do!  There was so much wrong in what that judge did. Judge Condon was transferred soon after that hearing to criminal court.  

[superdad01]

The only way Oprah and Dr Phill will get involved is if your a celebrity and are involved in a custody battle or have been recorded verbally abusing your child... from what I hear it's good for ratings...

[Jade]

>Genie, I appreciate your dialogue on this matter.  :)  I'm
>very glad to hear that your income has never been considered,
>and I hope it stays that way.  Here's a link with some info:
>
>http://www.divorcenet.com/states/illinois/ilart_10
>
>Look carefully at paragraphs 4 and 6.
>
>The issue I have with Illinois is that if the NCP makes a lot
>of money, as my DH admittedly does, then the CP gets off
>without having to contribute one thin dime.  Honestly, having
>this kind of money rolling in has changed her and has made her
>totally blood thirsty for more...
>
>There are lots and lots of ways to calculate the actual cost
>of raising children, but our lovely legislature won't do that
>because it's too much work... Far easier (read "lazy") to say
>"20%, no exceptions!" and slam the gavel down.  DH and I have
>4 children of our own, and I could tell you almost to the
>penny what I spend on them each month.  I personally think
>that child support should be limited to $500.00 for one child.
> Assuming the CP contributes something, then any child could
>be WELL cared for on that kind of money.
>
>The thing with other states is that most of them consider the
>CP's income rather than just the NCP's.  I calculated our CS
>burden using North Carolina's method (just to see), and it
>came out that with all things being equal, we'd be paying
>$500.00 less per month in North Carolina...  That's nearly
>half as much as we're paying now!!  So I do think there are
>other states that have it more together than Illinois.
>
>Typically, the incomes of the bio parents aren't so far apart
>as ours are... If the CP makes a salary that's even in the
>same ballpark as the NCP, then it could be assumed that both
>parents are contributing to the support of the child.  But in
>our case, we've paid the entire bill for many years, and that
>has a tendency to make a person bitter and angry.  And to add
>insult to injury, Illinois statutes repeatedly state that BOTH
>parents are responsible for providing financial support for
>the child, yet in our case that just isn't so and nobody even
>wants to hear about it.
>
>And now... even though we've already paid much more than our
>fair share, they still won't remove their claws from our
>behinds... No matter how much we pay or have paid, it will
>never be enough... :(


$500 a month for one child?  That isn't enough.  In my state it doesn't even cover daycare costs for one month, let alone living expenses for the child.  And in my state, the cost of living is expensive.

Now, if I were to live in a low cost of living state, the living expenses may be a little lower.  Don't know about the daycare costs.  And since I am not planning on moving any time soon, I probably won't find out.  

 

[Jade]

>And not only are you correct on all of the above, you can
>also plan on turning over copies of your tax return every year
>so they can suck some more of your money in the name of CS.
>
>Funny how they won't give you time when visitation is
>denied...

That must be something in your state.  In my state, child support comes up for review every 2 years.  And that is when both parties provide their financial info.  I can see requiring the prior years tax returns if one of the parties has regular overtime and decides to stop just before the hearing.  Then you would need that to determine actual income.  

[Davy]

Oprah and Dr Phil, whoever they are, is not relevant to the seriousness
of the cited reference material.