Non-custodial Mom wants insurance card

[Tennessee Dad]

My ex- is "insisting" on a copy of my insurance card for our daughter. I have "primary" custody, and maintain insurance. When she had a copy of insurance coverage in the past, she would take daughter to the Dr. on her whim; the Dr. would diagnose a cold or allergies, or some such thing we were already aware of, and I would be sent the bill. Thus far, I have not given her a copy of the new insurance card this year.

Legally, can I refuse to provide her a copy of the card? Mom has the option to take daughter to the Dr. I have selected, but she doesn't want to take her there. She wants her own choice.

Any help would be appreciated!

[jilly]

What does your court order say?

[katz]

So is mom taking kids to an out of network dr or something? Is she refusing to even pay the co-pay?

Maybe I dont understand, but I really dont see why you wouldnt want mom to have a copy of the insurance cards. My dh is custodial and mom has both prescription, and insurance cards, as should be IMO.

[Tennessee Dad]

Mom takes daughter to Dr. of her choice (a nurse-practioner) and demands meds or anti-biotics, and they give them to her.  Also, about 3 years ago, this Dr. was NOT on our preferred provider list, and Mom insisted on taking her to them anyway, resulting in a $600 bill, which I might add I did not pay.  Mom has not paid a single dime for medical coverage, co-pays or meds.  Mom will go to the Dr. every time daughter sneezes, I pay the co-pay and the meds (which according to our Dr., she did not need anyway).  

Mom almost LIVES in the Dr.'s office herself; I don't want our daughter to grow up like that.  I told her last night, if I could trust her to do the right thing by our daughter, it wouldn't even be a question.  But based on what has happened in the past, I am very reluctant to give it to her.  

I am seriously considering giving it to her, with the stipulation that she is responsible for all co-pays and uncovered charges she incurs, unless she can prove they were medically necessary; then I will reimburse her half, according to the CO.  What do you think?

[Tennessee Dad]

Court order says I provide insurance; uncovered medical split 50-50, but she has not paid anything, ever.  

[NoNicky]

Unfortunately you can not make those stipulations because they are not already in the order.  What you can do is give her a copy of the card and pay only and I do mean only what the order says you must.  Show the doctor's office a copy of the order and have them go after her for the rest.  But whatever you do refuse to pay more than ordered.  When they start looking to her to pay some for it she may back off on taking the child so often.  

We had a similar situation here where they refused to use the insurance we provide.  We went to the doctor's ourselves and wrote letters.  We explained that this was the insurance and they were to use it and we would only be responsible for 1/2 of the bill after insurance paid.  The doctor's cooperated with us knowing that would assure them some money at least and then they started looking to the other party for the rest of the money.  Suddenly he doesn't go to the doctors literally every week like he was.  Seems now he only needs to go about once a month.  

NoNicky
For God has not given a spirit of fear; but of power and of love and of a sound mind.  1 Peter 1:6

[Kitty C.]

There's nothing in your current CO that says you have to give it to her and she's got a proven track record of abusing the system anyway.  If she wants to push the issue, let HER take you to court for it.  If that does happen, make damn sure you've got copies of EVERYTHING to prove her non-compliance and abuse of the system.  And I'd be getting copies of your daughter's records from the mom's practitioner as well, just in case.

[Tennessee Dad]

Thanks, Kitty!  

Daughter's records have already been transferred from her Dr. to ours; that's what Mom is so mad about, I think.  But, in my opinion, her Dr. was glad to get rid of her; her Dr. sent the records after the first request.  According to our Dr.'s office that is very unusual, because most of the time they want the business back.  Not this time, I guess!  

[wendl]

You can tell mom, Dr so and so has all the medical insurance info on file for when daughter needs to be seen by this Dr.
The Dr's name is xx and her phone is xx and her address is xx.


**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

[LizaLou1]

Maybe I missed something..... but the insurance is about the child, get over the money.  How are you going feel when the emergency room refuses to treat your child because of lack of insurance, i.e. no card?

The insurance card is only a symptom of your underlying problem, which seems to be control or maybe lack of control over your child. Address the problem not the sympton. Don't know your facts, but the parent with custody decides the doctor not who carries the insurance.   If you have joint custody, hopefully your court order states who gets to make the final medical decision.   If she causing medical confusion, take it back to court for clarification.

If your ex owes you money for medical, go after it all the way to court.  Otherwise it's not really important to the issue.  When your ex starts paying maybe they will think twice about incurring a frivolous medical debt.  As for perferred providers, unless it's in the court order your probably out of luck.  


I understand your frustration with insurance,  DH's ex successfully had his insurance cancelled because "she" was the custodial parent even though there was a court order directing DH to provide insurance.  What a hugh mess.  It took 6 months of fighting to get everything corrected.  But, it never ends with her.   She's always up to something.  Just waiting for the next salvo.  Best of Luck.

LizaLou

[catherine]

The ER isn't going to refuse treatment because Mom doesn't have the card.  All she has to do is call Dad and he can provide all of the info to the ER.  Many people go to the hospital and forget their insurance info and they aren't refused treated.  

In fact, as far as I know, if Mom wants to take the child here or there for medical appointments, all she has to do is have the office call Dad and he can provide the info and fax a copy of the card into the office if necessary.

In our case, PB isn't ever getting my insurance card because I am the one that has insurance on the skids and my policy number is my SSN.  DH is CP.  If she ever needs to take them for treatment, the facility can contact us and we will happily provide them with any information they need.

[FLMom]

The problem isn't about the mom---it's about the CO.

I don't know where you're at, but in my state the parent with insurance is required by law to provide the other parent with an insurance card.

You need to go back and change your CO. Gather up all of your proof of her overusage (borderline obsessive cough cough). File a motion to ammend the final judgment. It's perfectly reasonable to ask that:

1) Your child go to only one pediatrician, and it be the one that is on your insurance. Put the name of the practice into your CO. Even better would be if it was the pediatrician that your child has gone to all of his/her life---then you could also state the stability factor for your child.

2) If either parent feels that the child is in need of medical care, both parents must be in agreement PRIOR to the child being taken to the doctor. If no agreement can be reached then the judge will decide.

3) Pediatrician will be Dr. XX, Dentist will be Dr. VV, vision specialist will be Dr. ZZ, hospital will be JJ Medical Center, and pharmacy will be store YY. Parent with insurance provides these offices and this store with all insurance information (therefore there is no need for the other parent to have a copy of the insurance card).

This arrangement has worked really well for us. See, I had the opposite problem. My ex didn't want to take the time off of work, so he would send kids to school with ear infections, strep throat, bronchitis, etc. His new wife held the insurance to our kids so I wouldn't be told anything even if they DID manage to take them to the doctor. The animosity that had festered about the medical issues made it so he wouldn't call and let me know anything.

Now I know ahead of time. Now I know which doctors the kids will be going to. I can reference online what meds they're on. As I now carry the insurance he doesn't need copies cause the billing department has all the information.

By the way, once everything is written out cut and dry, it takes a lot of the ridiculousness out of the situation.

Good Luck,
FLMom

PS- Edited-Went back and re-read the posts. It doesn't have to be the parent with primary that makes these decisions. I carry the insurance, but ex is primary and we have joint legal. If it's entered into the CO it takes the place of the state's rule of providing the insurance card to the other parent.

And duh to me, I'm guessing you're in Tennessee, lol.

[catherine]

Please show me the law where one parent is required to provide the other with an insurance card.

Edited to add - this is in Statute 61
"3.  Access to records and information pertaining to a minor child, including, but not limited to, medical, dental, and school records, may not be denied to a parent because the parent is not the child's primary residential parent. Full rights under this subparagraph apply to either parent unless a court order specifically revokes these rights, including any restrictions on these rights as provided in a domestic violence injunction. A parent having rights under this subparagraph has the same rights upon request as to form, substance, and manner of access as are available to the other parent of a child, including, without limitation, the right to in-person communication with medical, dental, and education providers. "

That doesn't mean you are required to provide the insurance card...just to provide information about Dr's, schools, etc.

[FLMom]

If judges went word for word by the statutes, they'd be making addendums 24-7.

Take this as an example. What you quoted from the statutes is correct, as in there is no specific time or notation concerning an "insurance card".

However, if you go to section 1 of 61.13 you will see a "just in case" scenario.

"1.  In a non-Title IV-D case, a copy of the court order for health care coverage shall be served on the obligor's union or employer by the obligee when the following conditions are met:

a.  The obligor fails to provide written proof to the obligee within 30 days after receiving effective notice of the court order, that the health care coverage has been obtained or that application for coverage has been made;

b.  The obligee serves written notice of intent to enforce an order for health care coverage on the obligor by mail at the obligor's last known address; and

c.  The obligor fails within 15 days after the mailing of the notice to provide written proof to the obligee that the health care coverage existed as of the date of mailing. "

Judges, as you know, have wide discretion. They can and do apply this  scenario. Judges know that the person that holds the insurance is not going to supply a copy of the handbook and explanation of benefits to the other party, so they substitute the insurance card as proof of insurance, with the other party receiving this proof within 30 days. This is how this was explained to me by my lawyer.

TennesseeDad has some very valid problems. Unfortunately, until he changes the CO to solve these issues it's just going to happen over and over again. We can quote statutes or lack of specific wording, but it's still not going to solve the problem.

If his ex is 1) screwy re: doctors or 2) out to be vindictive and cause him financial hardships by his share of the bills, this is obviously an ex that cannot be rationalized with. What's going to happen when she starts pestering this current doctor with everyday phone calls? What if, heaven forbid, she took TennesseeDad to court for witholding her right to medical information?!

A judge will see this as rational forethought to head off future events, i.e. they won't be back in his courtroom for round five of this three years from now. :-)

FLMom

[MYSONSDAD]

I am required to provide the insurance card. Within 30 days of expiration on the old card.


"Children learn what they live"

[catherine]

The part you quoted is indeed the case, but I guess we are a little opposite because my husband is the obligee and is required to have insurance - not the obligor.  We did it this way because she is not responsible enough to hold a job and have them covered at all times.  They are on my policy (stepmom) because I have better insurance than my DH.  And she still ain't getting my insurance info because my SSN is my policy number!  She would have to take us to court for that - and even then I guess first, she would have to actually give two sh*ts about their health :(

I think TenesseeDad is going to have to go to court to get exclusive medical rights and shut the biomom out of that arena if she continues to abuse it.

[catherine]

that the CP needs the insurance info because technically they are with the CP more and more likely to need medical care while with them.  We are a little opposite because DH is the CP but we have the insurance on them.  If anything happened to them while in the NCP's care, we would be there to give the hospital or dr or whatever any info they need.

[MixedBag]

Read through the posts/answers below because right now I am the NCM and I want my EX to provide me with his insurance cards as well......and he won't.  Heck, insurance company information changed on Jan 1st, and he hasn't "told" me about that either -- I found out myself.

It's a "problem" in our divorce as well....

He's the CP.  The order says "Mom will provide insurance through the United States Air Force."  That was my current employer at the time of the divorce.  I'm retired now.  The order also says that we are to split 50/50 any uncovered stuff.  

One person said that you're NOT focused on what's important -- the child.  I think that's right.

Before I retired, Step-dad picked up a job with great benefits.  So we enrolled the wole family, because upon my retirement, the level of benefits would change (from 100% coverage on just about everything to co-pays and deductibes upon retirement).  CP REFUSES to use and list that insurance, so I had to go behind him and do that.

In the same year, EX picked up son on his insurance (didn't tell me) and now insists that HIS insurance be primary.  I really don't have a problem with that at all -- it's the lack of cooperation to get stuff properly processed that's the problem.  And not even being TOLD about appointments -- and then add not being told what he was really diagnosed with....you get the idea.

You said that she's abusing the "system" and has caused unnecessary bills.  

Personally, I think you need to separate your problems and not use "not giving the insurance cards" apart from the her actions.  To me it's like connecting child support with parenting time which is wrong.

If you have a problem with her actions (which you do), then get that fixed in court.  Exchanging insurance cards (or providing insurance cards) is a whole different subject.  Yes, I understand that if you walk into an emergency room, no one is going to deny service.  But it sure makes things run smoother....and I know our emergency room would require payment in full up front if they couldn't verify insurance coverage by calling the CP if I didn't have cards present.  Heck, I even got into it once with them because on the front of the card I did have (from Step-dad/Blue Cross/Blue Shield), it clearly said that even if they take a copy of the card, it doesn't guarantee that there's coverage.

What do you think the judge is gonna be thinking when you go into a court room and say she created unnecessary bills and she says "He wouldn't do something as simple as give me a copy of the cards?"  

DH's EX (this was a while ago), was taking their children to "out of network area" providers and created some bills that way too.  He took it as an issue to court and the judge ruled in his favor.  That's what you have to do.

I'm not 100% in agreement in getting an order down to naming the doctor's in an order as a solution, but it would probably help if you got to pick the final doctor/dentists etc in your situation.  Wouldn't work with us because I'm in AL and he's in WV -- and it would be ridiculous for me to have to "run back to WV" when he's here for longer periods and needs to see a doctor......but if you guys are geographically close, then go for it.

Also, let me clue you in on something -- if your EX has to take or simply takes your child to a doctor and they ask for the insurance cards, my response would be "I've asked him and he simply refuses -- here's his number to call him to get a copy of the card.  Maybe he'll be more civil with you."  And since the person over the counter is focused on the card -- the CP/non-cooperative parent looks like the fool because this is such a simple thing when you're focusing on the child and not the bitter feelings against the EX.

Hope that helps you.....I know the order doesn't say give her the cards.  And whether or not the state's codes say it or not -- I think that's all besides the point.  If your focus is truly on the child, you'll exchange or provide the information and then focus on the other issue separately.

and by all means -- go after her on the money issue that she's created.

[LizaLou1]

Avoiding any and all roadblocks to emergency care, in or out our area or (especially out of state vacations or living), is my overriding concern.  

In our area not all hospitals are public and a private hosptial will turn you away without an insurance card.  Since emergencies are not planned, I personnally would not want to make my ex (NCP) "find" me before getting emergency care for our child.  Especially since I travel for my job and I'm not always immediately available.  

We also gave a card to each of DH's children age 13 and 15 (and his out of state ex).  One child lives with us and the other doesn't.  Each case is different and I'm sorry for your troubles.

RE the SSN on the Card, I thought HIPPA, required that policy numbers no longer be SSN.  We were sent a letter and re-issued ards changing the number... so were my in-laws.  

Lizalou

[Tennessee Dad]

I haven't checked this in a day or two, and look at all the response.  

Let me clarify; I am CP, Mom is NCP.  I have chosen the Dr. I want our daughter to see; BM doesn't agree with my choice.  (When BM was CP, I had no choice but to agree.  BM made all the decisions, no discussion.)  BM is listed with Dr. as able to request service, and receive information.  I am not trying to keep anything from her, only trying to limit unnecessary medical treatment.  The local hospital also has my information on file, so that would not be an issue.  

I want daughter to be taken care of, but BM has abused the system before, and will without a doubt abuse it again.  The Dr. and hospital I have chosen are both in BM's hometown.  Should daughter need treatment when with BM, that should not be an issue.  I told her if she had plans to take daughter out of town, I would reconsider; but for now I don't see a need in her having the card.  

[MixedBag]

My advice stands.

IF you are trying to limit unneccessary medical treatment, then take action to do so via the court system.  Connecting that to NOT giving her the medical cards is like connecting apples to oranges.  Yep, they're both fruit, but still two different KINDS of fruit.

It doesn't matter if you are the CP or NCP -- BOTH Parents should exchange medical cards concerning insurance that's available to the child.  Are you saying that if she has coverage that she doesn't need to give you a card???  Think about it -- focus on the child.....

When you said:  "I have chosen the Dr. I want our daughter to see; BM doesn't agree with my choice. (When BM was CP, I had no choice but to agree. BM made all the decisions, no discussion.) "  That clearly sounds like retaliation to me instead of trying to be the bigger and better parent now that you are custodial.  Remember what she did "wrong" as the CP and try to do it RIGHT or BETTER for the sake of your child this time.

How can Mom "abuse" the system truthfully, unless the system "lets her abuse it?"  Yes, she has done some horrendous things in the past by creating tons of medical bills, but the doctor let her keep coming when there was an outstanding balance for "routine" stuff, right????  Her actions are what you need to address in court.....

You know if that was your answer to me -- that you'd reconsider IF I was going out of town with our daughter, my next time with her would be for a short vacation out of town.....just to push your buttons.....and you opened the door and let me push it.  

Just trying to help -- mainly to get you to see the consequences and results of your actions -- so that you can be a good father and parent to your daughter.

[Tennessee Dad]

Sorry, don't mean to upset you.  Just trying to take care of a little girl so, hopefully, she won't turn into a pill-popping hypochondriac like her Mom.  (Sorry, personal feelings come out!)  

Truthfully, I can't afford to take it back to the court system.  If I headed back to court every time BM refused to abide by the CO, we would be there constantly.  Just trying to control (maybe that IS wrong) the situation before it happens again.  

[MixedBag]

Upset?  Nope -- just trying to get you to see the "other side" in a setting where you don't have to deal with "HER"....which brings out your emotional side and that clouds your reactions to her actions.

You have primary custody so be the better parent.  

If you can't afford to go back to court every time, do two things:

Gather up a few "things" like maybe two or three where she is in clear violaton of the order -- or where the order needs to be clarified via details because right now "it simply doesn't go into details"

In the mean time, learn how to represent yourself pro se -- get the law books on your state's code AND the books on the rules of engagement in the family court.

Then after a while, take it back to court yourself -- if you don't have the money.  It's what I have had to do and yep, it's helping.

Slowly, but surely, it's helping.....

[MixedBag]

In November 2004, my son needed a nebulizer for a weekend with me.

Dad refused to provide it and said it's my responsiblity.

So I found myself at a medical home supply store who stayed open late for me picking one up.  I ended up buying a used machine because it was the same price as renting one.

When it came time to paying for it, they asked for my son's insurance card.  Well, when  I picked up the prescription 10 minutes earlier from the EX, I asked him for the card and he said "I don't have one" -- got it on tape.

I had my son's "third" insurance card with me and knew the "second" insurance's information (because it's step-dad's), and knew the EX's basic information (detailed info was at home in AL -- and I was in WV) but they wouldn't take it.  They insisted on having a copy of the card, period.  They wanted to "go home" which I could understand.  So I had to pay for it in full -- thank goodness for Visa -- and then start the request for reimbursement.

IF I had a copy of the card, there would have been NO out of pocket expenses immediately because THEY would have processed it through all three insurances before coming to me for the balance.

And, no I don't abuse the system -- like your EX does.

And here's the upside from your point of view.....when she does use the insurance at least you get TOLD about it because you should get the explanation of benefits afterwards.   Then you can do "damage" control which would be acceptable....

[Tennessee Dad]

Yeah, you're right.  And if I thought for one minute BM would use it appropriately, there would be no question, no issue at all.  But she is a "master" at trying to "create" evidence, and medical evidence (even created) is hard to dispute.  

Example, a couple of weeks ago, BM claims to have found a ladybug in daughter's ear.  She threw an absolute fit, because she couldn't take her to a clinic right then; she insisted the ear was infected.  We took her to her Dr., and all he found was earwax!  Nothing unusual there, but if BM had taken her the night before, it would have been a totally different story.  She would have been calling DCS claiming neglect!  Anything to create an issue, real or imagined.  

I'm just trying to protect myself, and daughter, when Mom is truly "out there".