Really starting to hate "the system"

[crayiii]

When a mother wishes to receive child support all she has to do is pick up the phone.  There are entire state agencies set up to help her, for free.

If I don't feel like paying, they'll just take it out of my check.  When she want's more, she just picks up the phone and dad has to prove why he shouldn't pay more.  Dad seems to be treated like a criminal from day one.

If mom doesn't feel like letting dad see the kids or even talk to them on the phone, she doesn't.  She can refuse visitation or even communication if she feels like it with very little chance of anything happening.

Oh, dad can hire a lawyer and go to court...  If he can afford it.

There is nothing to help dad like there is to help mom.  It's like dad is just a money provider and thats all he needs to be.

[debid13065]

Hit that nail right on the head!  My BF has 4 kids, pays a boatload of money and she's gotten a $192 bi-weekly raise this year, buy taking him to court twice!  She drives a 2005 vehicle, him 1987, can he see his kids, absolutely not!  How fair is that?

[cinb85]

but I don't agree that all a mother has to do to receive support is pick up the phone.

The system stinks because it seems to work towards the favor of those who are either being greedy or sneaky (CP or NCP).  Those of us who are trying to do what's best for the children get screwed!!!

I am a mom, and believe me there's no help out there for me!  

[crayiii]

I don't understand how there is no help.  It seems easy to get a support order established.  Enforcement can be easy through wage garnishment.  It's only the NCP that doesn't care about the child (i.e. works under the table, doesn't care about time with the child, etc.) that makes it difficult.

Even then, there is jail if the CP keeps on the enforcement folks.  All at no cost to the CP.  Heck, if you get on state aid, they will really pick up the pace and go after the NCP.

Oh, and please don't take this as "mom bashing" I know I have been speaking in absolutes and that isn't fair.  It's just been a rough year...

[cinb85]

because he is so sneaky and it's not worth their time.  They constantly tell me "you can't get blood from a stone"!

They can't arrest him because whenever they go to his house, his girlfriend says that he doesn't live there (and he hids in the attic).
It does cost me every time I file a motion and nothing ever comes of it.

You are right about state aid.  My ex has FOUR CS cases against him.  The only one that they truly enforce is the ONE that gets state aid because the state gets reimbursed if he pays the CS.

I KNOW that there are many fathers out there who do pay their CS (as much as they can) and truly want to visit with their children, but sadly that is not the case with my ex.

Just wanted to let you know that the enforcement agencies just kind of ignore those children who's NCP makes it hard for them to get any kind of CS out of them.  I am the CP and they don't help me with the enforcement or anything.  They schedule enforcement hearings, but either he doesn't show up or they give him 3 more months to come up with a job and he ignores that.  And who suffers? The children!

Good luck to all of the Dads who sincerely want to do what's best for the children!

[crayiii]

And good luck to all the mothers who want the fathers involvement and help but don't get it!  Deadbeat dads and deadbeat moms, it sucks...

[cinb85]

But, you know what!  I have done without CS for soooo long, that if only my ex would do some little things for our daughter, I would be grateful.

Last night as trick or treaters were coming to our house, I admired the men who were out trick or treating with their children.  It's not just the money, but the little things that the NCP does that also matter!

I have practically begged my ex to visit with our daughter since he got out of prison in June of this year.  He has TOTALLY ignored my letters.  Not once has he even called our daughter!  Very sad!!!!  She REALLY needs her father as she is now in high school and her whole life is changing!  

[crayiii]

I spent last night with my girlfriend and her son trick or treating.  I called at the set time to speak with my son to wish him fun while he was trick or treating.  No answer...  Been this way for over a week, she's missed each call.

I understand how you feel though.  My girlfriend's ex won't have anything to do with his son.  We drove 5 hours to drop him off at his dad's house for his weekend and when we got there his dad answered the door and told him "I'm drinking beer with my friends, we'll hang out a different time."  and he closed the door.

His 8-year old son cried himself to sleep on our drive back home.

[cinb85]

I don't understand why ANY parent wouldn't do all they can to spend time with their children.  My ex has ignored our daughter for 14 years (she is 14 years old).  When he was in prison, he was writing to me telling me that he loves our daughter and misses her.  He promised that when he got out, things were going to change.  He was going to be a good father to our daughter.  I believed him!!!  He is such a liar.  I sent him a letter one month ago asking him if he plans on visiting our daughter anytime soon.  His girlfriend won't allow me in their house and our daughter won't go to their house without me (at least for the first few times - which "I" think is understandable.  He and his girlfriend are pretty much strangers to her).  I gave him alternatives like meeting at the park in his town or meeting at his mother's house.  He totally ignored my letter.  I will never understand him.  

I hope that you see your son very soon!  Also give your girlfriend's son a hug from me.  I feel so bad for him that his father was so insensitive to say something like that to him!!!  At least he has you in his life!

Good luck!

[crayiii]

I feel for you and your daughter...

It's hard for me sometimes to be anything more than just a male role model to my girlfriends son.  I know that he wants a dad so bad that he would latch on to pretty much any man.  His mom wants whats best for her son and would like me to be "dad" to him.

It is very hard for me because I feel like I'm "cheating" on my son.  Might sound dumb but it's how I feel sometimes.

[dontunderstand]

You know it is really funny, I am a mom and can't get help to save my life!  BF doesn't do $h!T~not even call let alone see his beautiful daughter.  I have even had "support enforcement" tell me that "he needs to live too" he is so far behind it isn't even funny, and all that they can do is suspend his license...SO WHAT!  He drives anyway!...On the other hand, I am married and my DH Pays out the @$$!!!  PFB gets every break under the sun, she definately knows how to work the system.  She refuses to work, she doesn't take care of SD! Do you think CS pays for anything for SD, nope, we take care of that stuff too!  Plain and simple, the system sucks and NOBODY protects the children.  Even those good parents that try are shot and beaten down...America the  great.  Land of the free, funny we are all slaves to this jacked up system.  How ironic and very sad.

[MYSONSDAD]

I pay my CS faithfully, early. Get kicked in the groin weekly in regard to visitation. Constant refusals.

And then you hear about the moms who really want the children to know and spend time with their fathers. And those fathers don't care. It gives the rest of us a bad name.

Thank you to all the moms out there who really respect a fathers involvement with their children. My bro has one and they worked out a good parenting plan for the child.

One extreme to the next....

"Children learn what they live"

[crayiii]

I'm in total agreement!  Damn, I wish one of you caring moms could be my ex!  ;-)

[cinb85]

You can be a Dad to both of them!  

They are both lucky to have you in their lives (your girlfriend is lucky too)!

[cinb85]

I don't understand it.  Even though my ex pays nothing, I still think that he needs to be in our daughter's life!  Too bad that he doesn't care to be in her life!  It's very sad!

[cinb85]

that one of you great Dads could be my ex!!!

Good luck to you!  

[debid13065]

Wish my BF's X felt that way.  She thinks that because he divorced her, that he divorced his 4 children as well.  Kids are too busy and have things to do, instead of seeing their father.  Even the constable noted that on his delivery paper, "Kids didn't seem interested in visitation, said they had "THINGS TO DO"!  I'm a divorced mother although my son is now 20, but from 2 1/2 on, his father took him every weekend, was at school meetings, baseball games, cookouts, Christmas eve at my mothers!  Too bad some women think that if they can't get what they want, this is how they will treat their children because of it, and the family courts don't even blink an eye!

[MYSONSDAD]

If the ex's who do deny visitation would think about things logically, they could get a whole lot more, if they DID work with the fathers trying to see their kids.

I would go the extra mile, be willing to give more....Go beyond any CO.

[cinb85]

We have always had a strained relationship since we split up because he is a very unstable person.  Goes from woman to woman and lives off of them.  Has children with them, then moves on to another woman.

When he was in prison, I actually felt a little sorry for him.  We talked alot in our letters.  He asked me how I felt about him and I honestly told him (it was not pretty, but I was totally honest about how I felt that he has never been a father to our daughter).  That's when he promised to be a good father once he got out.  I really hoped that he would come through with his promise because our daughter needs her father and she needs to develop a relationship with her siblings.  I also thought that ex and I could actually sit down and talk about things such as CS and other issues.  My ex got the CS completely stopped when he went to prison.  The CS was stopped for two years.  I kept telling him my letters, that when he got out of prison, he needed to find a job and help support our daughter.  He said that he would because he loves our daughter.  I filed to have the CS reinstated when he got out of prison.  It took about 1 1/2 months to get a court date.  When we went to court, the judge use the state calculator to determine how much the child support was going to be based on both of our salaries (he was working).
The judge asked us both if we agreed with the amount and we both said yes.  I thought that things were fine!

The minute that we stepped out of the courtroom he said to me "Did you ever think that maybe if you "asked" for less money, you "might" just get it!!!"  I told him that I didn't "ask" for that amount.  That's the amount that the Judge came up with based on our income.  He told me that his girlfriend has financially supported their two sons for 7 years now and if she could do it by herself, why couldn't I?  I told him that it is BOTH of our responsibility to support our daughter and that I have been doing it alone for 14 years now!  He called me a nasty name and walked out.  I got one CS payment (that was garnished from his paycheck) and that was it.  I'm assuming that he is no longer working.  It's been two months since we saw that one CS Payment.  I would be happy if he would just send something even if it's not the entire payment.  A teenager is very expensive (which I tried to explain to him).  The homecoming dance was this past weekend.  Ended up spending a good amount of money just so our daughter could go because she REALLY wanted to go.  I wish that he would just help out!

I was really hoping that since we were able to get along while he was in jail, that our relationship as parents would improve so we could both do what's right for our daughter.  I guess he just doesn't care about our daughter.

[smtotwo]

My ex and I have a great relationship.  Due to distance he can't be here as often as wants, but he calls during the day and we talk about our son because at 14 he wants to know what we talk about if he knows its about him.  When he can't be at school meeting (IEP) they do a phone conference and he's always available for them.

As NCP step  one reason I help as much as can with research and info for DH is that I cannot imagine a mother doing to their children what his ex does.  Told the skids that DH isnt really their dad her new hubby is, they don't have to come here if they don't want to....and on and on.

But we had a small victory at the last visit  OSS-11, asked if he could live with us.  Of course the ex will never agree. Will be another court battle.  But after all she's said and done its awesome that he wants to live here!!

[dontunderstand]

Trust me, we too wish one of you good dads that are interested in their children had fathered ours as well...I tell DH that ALL THE TIME!!! :) Keep being the good men that you are!!!

[dontunderstand]

DH and I talk about this alot!  I would have no problem going above and beyond for BM (and therefore SD) if BM were normal stopped playing games!

[dontunderstand]

DH felt the same way.  He was mad all the time, because here he was spending time with my daughter (he has been there since she was 1 1/2, she is now 6) and he didn't even know where his daughter was (BM moved without telling him while he was TDY)  He had so much guilt.  It lessened a little when he was finally able to see SD, but he does still struggle with it.  I think it is only natural for you to feel that way, but you are in NO way cheating on your son.  I agree that it is the equivalent to having to sons!  They are both lucky to have you and you are lucky to have both of them, children are a blessing no matter who's they are!  

[Genie]

the good NCP has the horrible CP and the good CP has the horrible NCP.  My ex was the good NCP for quite sometime and we fought tooth and nail to stay in contact with the kids.  Took it to court several times and it always seemed like the money matters or CPs allegations had more weight than her contempt for denying visitation and alienating the kids.  Whatever was said or ordered in court went out of the window when we walked out b/c CP decided only ex had to abide by the orders and she didn't have to.

Now as a CP, my ex is horrible.  Doesn't pay CS, hardly contacts the children.  But here I am going and visiting his parents regularly (they are wonderful people and great grandparents) and of course he takes advantage of it to show up and see the children and hassle me.

Why do I bend over backwards to make sure the girls have contact with his family even though he could care less to do it himself? Because I know what is good for the girls.  Even though I struggle each month to make ends meet and get the girls what they need all by myself.  Why can't I have one of you good NCPs as mine?

But thanks for those who gave us credit as I give you the credit you are due.

[Genie]

is nothing in place afterward to enforce their rulings.  When a NCP doesn't pay CS, the CP can go to the state to get help collecting it at no or little charge to them.  If the CP denies visitation or contact, the NCP can only once again go to court to once again have rulings ignored. My state, IL, has an Interference of Visitation law that when used works quite well.  Too bad only one county we encountered would even enforce it. It whipped ex's CP into shape pretty quickly until she decided to more 2 hours away into a county that didn't care what the law said.  Vistation issues are considered domestic or civil issues by most police departments and they choose to ignore them and won't enforce any court orders in place. They tell you they can't do anything, can't force the children to go with the NCP if they don't want to and you have to go to court to do anything.  Well that does no good.  And this attitude by police departments just gives the bad CP's more reason to do what they please b/c they know nothing will happen to them in most cases.  Why can a police department choose to ignore a law that is in place? Never did get an answer to that one when several different ones chose to not enforce the interference law in place. Boggles the mind but explains why visitation is denied time and time again.

[wendl]

Crayii

Not all the time, I am a custodial mother, my ex has a few kids $36k in arrears over 20k just to our son.  He does not work, they finally served him contempt papers, he has a hearing on 11/17 which he will NOT show as he has another new job. Now he is going to be a transiant AGAIN, and going to New Orleans. Now CS will have a hard time locating him again as he lives off woman.

I haven't gotten ANY support since April (and that was ONLY cuz it was his income tax check) before that I got $30 in Feb. His order is $160 a month, since our move I make less than before, I could go after him for more cs, but whats the point, 1) he doesn't pay and 2) he doesn't give a rats butt about our son.

The only time CS goes after men is the GOOD ONES that actually WORK, But all everyone usually talks about are the dead beats, the majority of men/woman pay their support or at least try.

THIS IS WHAT PISSES ME OFF.

Woman can sit on their lazy butts and collect CS, have MORE kids and live off that man along with the CS they get from the 1st ex, they collect food stamps, go to school fooooorever and don't work. OK if a CP can stay home and NOT contribute FINANCIALLY to the child(ren) why the hell should the man have to pay support, are they BOHT suppose to be supporting their kids financially. grrrr

**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

[Hawkeye]

In my opinion, the system has gone totally insane.

I'm a non-custodial father of one, albeit a couple hundred bucks behind in CS, BUT I have gone out of my way to take care of "our" 8 yr old son on countless occasions when he has a day off from school and plenty others. My ex-wife would rather him spend afterschool time at a dirty daycare/hair parlor than with me. BTW, she makes plenty of $$$ working for a defense contractor.

I've rescheduled my schedule so many times, it would take something more than the Parent-Time-tracker here to keep track of it all. But being the meticulous sort that I am, I have a paper trail.

Now, get this folks, the state wants to take my drivers license away becauase of fifty bucks in arrearages. Say What????

So, if they take my drivers license, I can't go to work, therefore will have no income and unable to pay CS. What sense does that make?

Can you say NONE?

When on God's green earth will the supposed "officials" wake up to reality?

[futureuselesseater]

Problem is that lawyers cost so dang much and if anyone really wants to go to court it costs beyond what it should be.  Honestly, I think it would be great if there was a new law that said family lawyers could only charge so much for their fees to help a father or mother go to court.  I know that is not going to happen, but I think if the state wants dad's taking care of their kids financially they should find ways to help them get involved physically.

[sheliblue118]

Unfortunately, it seems as though the deadbeat fathers are the ones who are in the majority and they give a bad name to you all who try to do what is best for your children.

I have one of those deadbeat fathers for an ex and he appealed the divorce judgement for child support.  

There is no stay that says he doesn't have to pay until the Court of Special Appeals makes a decision (it's been since October 15, 2005 that the case was heard) - so now he's in arrears $17,000 and I've had to try to move heaven and earth to get SOMEBODY to enforce the child support order - my local CSEA here in Maryland has suspended his license 3 times and given it back to him (WITHOUT ANY PAYMENT MADE) all 3 times because he promised he would pay - ha ha - he was also arrested for driving on one of those suspensions, and his attorney wrote a letter to the States Attorney's office misrepresenting the entire case (oh excuse me, she LIED) - she knew FULL WELL ex was in NON-compliance, yet, her letter produced a verdict of NOLLE PROSEQUE - in otherwords, States Atty decided not to prosecute.  There have been 2 contempt hearings scheduled and postponed because the same court that issued the child support order, says we should wait to find Ex in contempt until the appeal is decided - In the meantime, I feed and clothe my 3 growing teenagers on WHAT?? Welfare, church assistance, food from food kitchens, my parents, etc.

His license was suspended a 4th time recently, he was arrested for driving on suspended - hopefully, they will prosecute this time and get child support for me.

So, you fathers who ARE taking responsibility and are interested in your children's lives and welfare, I applaud you and apologize for the ex wives who have made it so difficult for you - the kids are the ones who suffer in ALL of these cases, and it's heart wrenching and frustruating for those of us who DO have our children's best interest in our hearts.

Thanks to all of you who love your children enough to WANT the best you can do for them.

[Genie]

Yes, I can pick up the phone and ask for help but the help is very slow and doesn't do a darn thing at all to help collect.  They haul him into court and say pay and he doesn't so they wait a year and do it again and same thing happens.  Hey he may spend a little time in jail but then gets out and continues to not pay.

So while I know the frustration of trying to see the children (from when I was a stepmom) and getting no help from the courts to help enforce an order once BM walks out the door and does the same thing she always did....

I also know the frustration of supporting 2 children (one a baby) by myself and working full time and doing everything needed for the child with no help from BF b/c he doens't think he needs to support his children but wants to run around and tell everyone who will listen that he is their "father"!!!

So I know that isn't the case in the Fathers here but it isn't any easier on the "other side" getting help with issues and court orders than it is on the NCP side.

The games continue no matter the situation.  Too bad nothing will ever get resolved.

[smtotwo]

I had to call them EVERY WEEK  to get them to take my ex to court, had to PROVIDE them with his employer info, if I could get it out of him.

Sometimes that was as easy as him wearing a jacket with the employers name, sometimes as hard as having friends that live near him(he lives out of state)  try to get the info out of him.

My kids are now 22 and 21  and both have a child,  He STILL OWES ove $4000 in arrears.

And because the children are grown we are no longer a "priority".

Thats O-K.  He doesnt know that theyll garnish his social security when he retires  and the interest just keeps adding up.


My DH is the NCP  and hasnt talked to boys in 2 months.  The ex intentionally created chaos because she is ordered to pick up at our house at the end of visits   and her license was revoked, coincidently, 10 weeks ago.

HUH,  imagine that.   No help for him either.

[marisalimbo]

Trust me, if you were in CA, it is that easy.  My husband divorced his ex over 3 years ago and pays over half of his paycheck in support. We moved to Texas because we could not afford to live in Ca anymore.  His pay is 30% less here and he is falling behind every month.  His ex took him to court just recently to raise it and within one weeks time, they had his support set $300 more than it was before.  He is supposed to pay $2200 a month now and they notified his payroll within one week.  We have a newborn son now and it was supposed to get lowered a measily $80, which you are a mom.  You know that it cost more than that to raise a baby.  Child Support Service says that it can take well over 6 months for that to become effective.  We try to see his children as often as possible and since he can not afford to fly out there, he begged her (after she got his tax return) to pay for the tickets at least one way.  She denied and tells his children that their dad does not want to see them.  Dad can't afford to!! We send little packages every month when we can afford it just to let them know that we are thinking about them.  The whole system is a joke.  It should be evaluated case by case.  But let me tell ya one thing; if you were in Riverside County and in Ca. you would have that support set so fast and so high, you would be set for life!

[Genie]

how did you find this one?

Anyways, yes it is easy to get a modification done.  Actually in my state it still takes @ 6 mos for a modification if you file through the state and don't go to court for it.  Then it takes a month to get the new garnishment to the employer so it is not a fast process in IL as it may be in CA.

However that is totally different than trying to collect from someone who refuses to pay.  You can get your raised amount but you can't collect it from someone who dodges the system to not pay at all. Riverside CA may order the CS fast but do they actually do anything to collect it when the other parent refuses to pay it and dodges like a pro?

So it does go both ways.  As for the amount your H has to pay, he must make a very nice salary to pay $2200 a month.  And I mean big salary. Doesn't seem right.  But I don't know how anyone needs that amount to support children with.  Shoot I would be happy with the $290/mos I was ordered to get.  That would help tons!!!