To Alec

[Ref]

I know what you said was wrong and hurtful. I know it was out of extreme pain and frustration. I am sooo sorry that you have to put up with all of this in the public eye.

I think you did wrong by leaving that message. Kim did only a little better by not deleting it immediately and allowing it to be public. If she took the high road, sure she couldn't punish you, but she could have saved your daughter pain. I guess she picked the one that made her feel better.

I have some advice for you.

1. Kim is making you look like the person she is accusing you of being. You probably are a great caring guy, but she will take whatever you do and twist it around until you are abusive and uncaring. Watch your step! The best way to fight this is not to let your daughter see anything BUT the opposite of what Kim is accusing you of. That way Kim will have nothing to point to to prove herself right.

2. Never ever record you scolding your daughter. I guess you probably learned this lesson right now. Leave her a message saying that you will talk later or just don't leave a message. Even if you just yelled at her calling her ungrateful, I am sure Kim will use it as leverage.

3. I am sorry to say it, but being a Long distance noncustodial, you have lost. You just need to spend as much time as possible showing her the real you and avoiding fights. There will be a time where she isn't going to talk to you and you will have to figure out how to be ok with that. Accept the fact that she will be a mini Kim until she gets old enough to realize what a wreck Kim is.

4. Get some support. This is really tough. tweens and teens being PASed is awful becuase you know that this is the adult they are being shaped into. They start quoting the horrible stuff the ex says and you want to yell at them the same as you would the ex. You have to remember that they are not understanding any of this yet.

5. I think the best thing to do is tell the child that they are not old enough to understand what is going on and you are sorry they are hurt, but you still expect their respect.


Good Luck
Ref

[Jade]

>I know what you said was wrong and hurtful. I know it was out
>of extreme pain and frustration. I am sooo sorry that you have
>to put up with all of this in the public eye.
>
>I think you did wrong by leaving that message. Kim did only a
>little better by not deleting it immediately and allowing it
>to be public. If she took the high road, sure she couldn't
>punish you, but she could have saved your daughter pain. I
>guess she picked the one that made her feel better.
>
>I have some advice for you.
>
>1. Kim is making you look like the person she is accusing you
>of being. You probably are a great caring guy, but she will
>take whatever you do and twist it around until you are abusive
>and uncaring. Watch your step! The best way to fight this is
>not to let your daughter see anything BUT the opposite of what
>Kim is accusing you of. That way Kim will have nothing to
>point to to prove herself right.
>
>2. Never ever record you scolding your daughter. I guess you
>probably learned this lesson right now. Leave her a message
>saying that you will talk later or just don't leave a message.
>Even if you just yelled at her calling her ungrateful, I am
>sure Kim will use it as leverage.
>
>3. I am sorry to say it, but being a Long distance
>noncustodial, you have lost. You just need to spend as much
>time as possible showing her the real you and avoiding fights.
>There will be a time where she isn't going to talk to you and
>you will have to figure out how to be ok with that. Accept the
>fact that she will be a mini Kim until she gets old enough to
>realize what a wreck Kim is.
>
>4. Get some support. This is really tough. tweens and teens
>being PASed is awful becuase you know that this is the adult
>they are being shaped into. They start quoting the horrible
>stuff the ex says and you want to yell at them the same as you
>would the ex. You have to remember that they are not
>understanding any of this yet.
>
>5. I think the best thing to do is tell the child that they
>are not old enough to understand what is going on and you are
>sorry they are hurt, but you still expect their respect.
>
>
>Good Luck
>Ref
>
>
>
>

You have absolutely no proof that the mother released it to the public.  It could have been someone in the court system.  Because there is no way in he!! I would delete a threat to my child.  I would take it to court to PROTECT my child, like Kim did.  

Alec now has to live with the consequences of HIS actions.  And his actions are despicable.  Threatening an eleven year old child like that was wrong.  I hope he ends up with supervised visits and court-ordered anger management classes to help him deal with his obvious inability to control his temper.  

[krazyfamily_6]

I am not saying that what he said to that child is ok because it's not.  
 
It's also NOT ok to keep a child from their parent for years and years.  This battle has been going on for 6 years now, ridiculous!  

This is what Alec had to say

""Although I have been told by numerous people not to worry too much, as all parents lose their patience with their kids, I am most saddened that this was released to the media because of what it does to a child," he wrote. "I'm sorry, as everyone who knows me is aware, for losing my temper with my child. I have been driven to the edge by parental alienation for many years now. You have to go through this to understand. (Although I hope you never do.) I am sorry for what happened. But I am equally sorry that a court order was violated, which had deliberately been put under seal in this case."

[dipper]

I did not even know they were divorced.....I just read the news article on it on Fox news....I really think he snapped and I think his words were probably really meant for his ex.  It was wrong to direct them at his daughter..............

But...I have read many times on this board how devastating and frustrating PAS can be.  It is a helpless, hopeless feeling.  This is his child..he loves her..he ONLY wants to talk to her and see her as he has a court order to do so...and he is rejected and refused time and time again....

His ex has already won the custody battle by virtue of having the child this long.  Alec said he would straighten the child out..that doesnt mean he is going to come and abuse her......he is her father, whether he lives with her or not.....

His words were wrong.........but, i dont think it deserves court punishment.  And I dont think I would have ran straight to the court with it unless of course I was just using it as leverage for my case....note:  MY case...not the best interest of the child....Either that or if their is any clear evidence of abuse in the past...

[superdad01]

I think that this was a good thing to make public. Not for alex but for men in general. Maybe someone can look at the situation and see that we got a problem underlying this situation.

Alex did show bad judgement but none of us are in his situation. Who knows what what happend before this etc. To many guys gotta deal with this shit (me included) and no one can relate it till your actually involved in it.

This was all political by her to win the custody battle. NOthing more nothing less. Who else would have leaked it?  I'm sure the 12 year old don't have her publicist on speed dial.

People in the media blow this stupid shit up and act like nobody ever yells at there kids and breaks shit or punches a wall. Now all of a sudden the normal guy who lost his temper for a minute is a deranged lunatic all the time.

But then again Were guys... were all crazy and abusive and angry all the time

[dipper]

If they were an intact family, he could spank the kids rear and there would be no big deal...but, since he is in a custody battle the courts are going to suspend his rights for fussing at her.  

I agree it was just a ploy to gain custody.  She doesnt seem to care that she just nationally/publically embarrassed her childs father.  

the media is what it is....they always twist and distort....believe only half of what you hear...

[Jade]

>If they were an intact family, he could spank the kids rear
>and there would be no big deal...but, since he is in a custody
>battle the courts are going to suspend his rights for fussing
>at her.  
>
If my ex had hit our kids on the rear, I would have kicked him out sooner.  I wouldn't make such a blanket statement if I were you.  Because one parent hitting a child CAN cause serious problems in an intact family.  Of course, I made it crystal clear to my ex just how I felt about hitting children before we had children.  

The courts suspended his visitation for him VERBALLY ABUSING an 11 year old child.


>I agree it was just a ploy to gain custody.  She doesnt seem
>to care that she just nationally/publically embarrassed her
>childs father.  
>

Kim wasn't the one who left the verbally abusive voicemail.  Alec Baldwin is.  

You can go ahead and blame someone else for HIS actions, but that doesn't change what HE did.  

Alec Baldwin embarassed himself by his own actions.  

[dipper]

Jade,
Why such anger?  Not everyone shares your opinions..it would be a boring world if they did.

No, I dont think his fussing was abuse as nothing has been shown to prove it was a pattern.  My cousin and his wife physically and sexually abused their children for five years.  They finally took the kids, but didnt do anything to punish them.  

My statement about spanking was that it is not ILLEGAL to do so...and the court would not have came in and suspended his rights.  

You act as if your emotions have never gotten the best of you...but contradict that by your obvious anger and defensiveness in your posts.  

As for the leaking this to the press....I would not publicly humiliate the father of my child.....Because my children love their dad and it would be hard for them to know people are making fun of him...So, yes I do have a problem with it for that reason..and I just know that HE did not leak it.....

[MixedBag]

"Not for alex but for men in general."

Women can also be on the receiving end of things like this.


"none of us are in his situation."

I was in a situation that was 99% just like his.

Many parents who post here deal with Alienation.

[MixedBag]

Find Mom in contempt for not making the child available when he called?

Again, that takes us back to an older thread about phone contact between a NCP and child, doesn't it?

So what the court REALLY did was take away the child's right to spend time with her dad on the phone.  

I put this out there, IF the Mom had made the child available at the appropriate times the court order said the CHILD is allowed to speak with her father, do you think he would have blown up like he did?

There is only ONE answer:  No

If the subject is parenting time with the child, the primary residential paent has the primary ability to set the tone concerning parenting time with the child for the NON-CUSTODIAL parent.  The other parent can do things too that will hurt the tone of parenting time, but the major contributing adult IS the primary/custodial parent.

The non-custodial parent or secondary parent can help by being on time for the child's time with them AND by paying bills (like support and medical reimbursement) on time.

Therefore, personally I do lay 99% of the responsibility for what happened on the Mom.

[MixedBag]

deleted

[wysiwyg]

"But then again Were guys... were all crazy and abusive and angry all the time"

Not correct, in our situation, BM has admitted in court to the judge that SHE was the abuser, SHE inflicted physical and emotional abuse on my husband (and her own siblings), he had to seek medical treatment and there are numerous police reports on file.  DH went to an abuse group for over a year to try and come to terms and deal with this sort of crazy person, and SHE got custody!  Now BM is lashing out physically and emotionally to the 16 year old child, have the courts done anything about this - no.  ITs not my DH that is on prozac for emotional issues, its not my DH that scored off the charts on her MMPI2 for a custody eval, but riddle me why an admitted abuser got custody when the courts order said that BF was afit and proper parent to raise the child............

Sorry, I got to rambling here, however I dont think any of us as humans with emotions have ever done or said anything in anger or hurt, I do not agree with Mr. Baldwin's comments - but I DO understand where he is comeing from.  Before condemming him and punishing him, however we need to find the root of the problem, and as a parent that has seen first hand the issues revolving around being denied access to your child(ren) , we must first correct that issue in order to refrain from the continued problems that occur as a result of the root of the problem.  Ms. Basinger should be promoting a healthy loving relationship between father and daughter, had she insisted that the child be availalbe to speak to dad then there would not be any issue, however instead of promoting this loving environment for the child, she victimized her own child for her own benefit, and then tookit a step further and let it leak to the media so that her daugheter will continually be reminded about this incident for the rest of her life, what parent will sacrifice their children to get the oneupmanship over the other parent?  THe answer is an alienator!

[Ref]

it was some terrrible stuff. I hope the child didn't actually end up listening to the VM. Hopefully Kim was enough of a parent to take the high road and keep her daughter from having to relive it.... Oh wait! She was way more interested in punishing Alec then taking care of Ireland. First of all, I don't believe for one second after all of the crap that she pulled that she was not responsible for leaking this tape.

I do put some blame on his shoulders. DH and I have recently wanted to flip out on SD and I can't tell you the mean names I have started coming up with about her in my head. We have managed to force a more adult reaction to her and her mom's craziness. Alec could not do that anymore and that is where he was weak and since hopefully learned from his mistake.

I put most of it on Kim's shoulders. The alienation. The manipulation through the courts. The violations of court orders. This was all to make him crack and to make him look bad and she did. Like I said, she should have taken the high road to protect her daughter but instead found it more pleasing to hurt him and didn't care how it would hurt Ireland.

My 2 cents
Ref

[MixedBag]

but the scales of being responsible for what happened IMHO are definitely heavier on her side.

IF she wouldn't have started the whole crapola, then I am willing to bet that he wouldn't have reacted this way.

So I ask -- did the court really already take away phone time?

And if so, WHY doesn't the court move this fast for other families?

[superdad01]

But then again Were guys... were all crazy and abusive and angry all the time"

You must have missed the scarcasm in that statement...  

I don't feel like any of us are truly in his situation. We all have our trials and tribulations but This is national news. Do you think people in his position are used to getting treated like shit? NO. People usually bend over backwards for celebs and such. He probally has an ego like anyone of us most likely would. Listen to what he said. "you have embarresed me for the last time"  Normal parents don't say things like that. Were used to being embarassed by our kids... lol

I've dealt with the parental alienation in my own battle... that's my own little hell that I have to deal with. I don't however have every person in the united states talking about it.

[wysiwyg]

I agree, that is why those well known celebs in CA can get off with murder and child molestation..........however, something had to bring the PAS to the public eye and perhaps something good can come of this.  I understaood your sarcasm, I was just making a point in our situation that the same time Mr. Baldwin is going thru this, my SS has been thrown around and whipped up on by his BM and nothing is done about it, not even the courts when she admitted 12 years ago in court on the stand that she was the abuser in the marraige and the judge awareded her custody, something went very awry there, and you know calling your kid a pig or beating his face, neither is right, but why is Alec Baldwin punished but not my SS BM?  

[superdad01]

I don't have an answer for that...

[dipper]

In Va...when my ss was 13...his mom slapped him on his face - left a big hand print.  Now, dh was ncp at the time...and this was done in our yard.  Well, ss did not leave with her after this..and bm went to police.  They called and ss told them situation and asked about filing a complaint against her.  Police told him to come next morning..

They set him up!!  While he is filing a complaint in walks an officer as they had told bm he would be there and she went to court..and LIED saying dh had refused to bring ss home, when she was to pick ss up..and judge signed a pick up order on the spot.   Then, the when it went before another judge he said, "All children deserve to be slapped from time to time.."

And Alec got his rights taken for running his mouth...not fair people..