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change in custody?

Started by too_short, Mar 02, 2004, 07:04:13 PM

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too_short

Hey all,

I'd like to get some indication of what my chances are for a change in custody.  So please don't try to question the veracity of my statements... how would making false statements here help me?

My son is 8 and I live out of state.  His mother and I broke up when he was two (we both moved to two different states at this time).   He attended preschool and kindergarten at school A and first and present grade at school B.  Both school A and school B have recommended prof. counseling and mother has not responded.  He's highly intelligent but since he's been in school B has been performing average/below average in school.  He also has very serious emotional problems.  Mother is unable to get him to school on time (about 1/4 of the time he's tardy) which only adds to his problems.  Also, mother is about to have another child out of wedlock (a girl).  They live in a 2 bedroom apartment.  All of the above I can establish easily.

Now I have a good, steady job with even better benefits and I just got married and moved into a new house.  I now have a family base (i.e. my spouse's family base), which wasn't the case before.

My biggest fault is I wasn't proactive in the past.  I would have visitation one weekend a month, and occassionally an extra weekend.  My wife has been very encouraging/supportive and so this past August I got increased visitation to every other weekend (his mother resisted).

Also, I was aware of some of the problems at school, but until recently I didn't know how bad it really was -- his teachers would tend to try to put a positive spin on things and his mother never divulges any information.  I'm now in frequent contact with the school.

My wife and I are convinced that the tardies, lackluster performance at school, and the lack of counseling are signs that his mother is unable manage the situation.  And we further believe that that household will be under more pressure with the arrival of the new baby.  We feel its best if we have him, and so we want to go for custody.


MixedBag

Nothing that I read would IMHO be supported by the courts as "significant enough" to change custody.

Unfortunately, nothing.  Nada..

Peanutsdad

Hoss,

Mixedbag is probably right, BUT.....you can go for it, and request a home study be performed on both parties, including moms apparent lack of ability to ensure your son is healthy, and doing well in school.


Be prepared to spend sigificant bux. I'd say, go for it. The issue that will probably hinge here, is moms failure to provide mental health and ensure that the child is doing well in school.

MixedBag

You know how much "they" wanted for a home study for us?

$6000!!!  You read right...

Indigo Mom



-----including moms apparent lack of ability to ensure your son is healthy, and doing well in school.-----

Allrighty, there....Vern.  We're gonna fight.  :)

I totally disagree with you saying the "lack of ability" on the mothers part for the child not doing "so" well in school.  Let's use ye olde lil miss as an example.  (only cause I don't have any others...lol)

Anyway, lil miss isn't doing very well in school.  In fact, she recently went to "full day" status just SO she can try to "catch up" with the others.  She's waaaaaaay behind the other children in her class...teacher says she's both "mentally and socially immature".  The class aid is always helping lil miss one on one just TO get her where she "needs" to be...as per school "guidelines" for kindergarten.  Lil miss just ain't "gettin' it".  About 2 weeks ago, (before the full day thing) hub and I discussed holding her back in kindergarten next year...because she's so far behind.  Her "grades" aren't "right"...according to "kindie code"....or whatever the hell they use.  She IS worked with at both home and school...but it ain't "there".  

Should her father be able to petition the courts for custody because I "lack the ability" to get her to do well in school?  I don't think so...

There are a bagillion legitimate reasons for a child to "fall behind".  Lil miss?  She's a year younger than everyone in her class.  She's never been to daycare, preschool, anything.  She has been a stay at home kid her whole life.  She is exactly where she "should" be given all the facts.  

Also, lil miss is a classic Indigo.  They're intelligent as all get out...but these kids are the ones who aren't doing well in school.  Their IQ tests would show them to be "up there"....yet they're failing.  When these children "are" tested for intelligence, people scratch their heads wondering "why" they're failing. Schools are failing the children, not the other way around.  Oh, in case you're wondering?  Lil miss is VERY smart.....

So, given "my" situation with lil miss, if a change in custody is appropriate, then this little girl would flip and flop between her fathers home and mine...legally changing custody all the time...because...she's going to do the same at her fathers school as she does here. (well, since her "father" is a total lump...she probably wouldn't even "make" it to school...but that's another story)

My point...a child not doing "so" well in school shouldn't be considered a change in circumstances...unless there is a THOROUGH investigation into this matter.  "Why" is the child not doing well?  And just "who" is going to do that?

AND...no, I'm not done!  Both schools have recommended "professional counselling"?  I wonder...what "qualifications" they have for this.  "Why" they recommended this. Remember lil miss' 1st school?  They said she was "adhd", they said she needed a full mental health evaluation (to which I responded that the principal himself should go get one), she needed a professional therapist, she needed an intelligence test, a full physical health examination, and all sorts of other "crap"....all because, in her very 1st few days of school...she didn't "understand" the rules.  

Now, I am done....


http://www.indigochild.com/

http://www.metagifted.org/topics/metagifted/indigo/isYourChildAnIndigo.html

Kitty C.

Just to add ammo to your arsenal.  Check out the state statutes on truancy where your child lives and also what the school policy is on tardiness.  In the county I live in (in Iowa), the cops will actually go to the home and get the child up, ready and escort them to school.  Get enough of those and the cops will report the parent to CPS/DHS, which is taken much more seriously than a report from a parent.

If you can get the tardiness/truancy on record with the poor school performance and mental health neglect, you might have a shot.  Be prepared to pay thru the nose, especially for evals. and home studies.  But you just might get lucky and get a judge who deems it a significant change of circumstance.  Something else to think about. too:  if you do get in front of a judge or mediator and aren't making any progress (mainly because they don't want to upset the 'status quo'), offer a 'trial' or temp. custody, just to see how the child fairs in your custody.  Then revisit the custody issue in 6 months to a year and then you can show proof just how much better he's doing, and turn the temp. into perm.
Handle every stressful situation like a dog........if you can't play with it or eat it, pee on it and walk away.......

littlebit

Save your $ for a couple years and get really involved with son's life.  Can't see a judge granting you custody right now unless child is in great danger.

Peanutsdad

Ok Indy, lets get with it ;)

I wasnt refering to YOUR situaton here in this thread Indy,, I WAS refering to THIS posters post. In it he states the child is frequently tardy, not doing well in school , that the school has contacted mom about issues and she hasnt addressed them.

With THAT in mind,, yes,, THIS mother APPARENTLY cannot fulfill parental duties to her child as they seem to be indicated. ;)

Indigo Mom

Is that something similar to....gettin' jiggy wid it?  Do you think your better half will approve?  I 'm game if you are...lol

Anyway, you goof, less rock!

-----I wasnt refering to YOUR situaton here in this thread Indy,, I WAS refering to THIS posters post. In it he states the child is frequently tardy, not doing well in school , that the school has contacted mom about issues and she hasnt addressed them.-----

DUH...ya doof.  However, instead of using just "any ol" thing to show the other side...I used mine.  'tis all I can do..juno?  (for some weird reason, I feel if I have another side, I should use the actual case...rather than hypothetical) There are kids who fail because they have dork parents...but then there are kids who "fail" because there's about 90 billion other reasons.  A child not doing well in school shouldn't be a change in circumstances...'less it's investigated and proven to be that the parent is a schmuck.

Now...here's what "I" think.  This poster better make DAMN sure he can prove...PROVE...that the mother is a failure.  That the child is failing BECAUSE of her, (and not him living in another state) and that the child really "is" tardy. Cause if he can't prove it...he's going to end up with the poo end of the stick.  

I don't think he's gonna get custody...cause if ya ask me...it's another "new life/new wife" thang....and people in "that" situation tend to, well, pick at every little thing...knowing they haven't done d*ck to help prior to..."new wifey".  Ya know?  I just can't stand reading story after story about a parent not "doing" anything...but when they get remarried they become "super parent" ?  Not...

But then...I couuuuuuld be wrong.  It's been known to happen.....





too_short

Your responses were a bit discouraging, but nevertheless honest.  However, I should clarify things a bit more.  I wanted to avoid details to keep things objective, but in doing so I may have understated the problems.  So here we go...

By serious emotional problems (this stuff I didn't know about until recently):
   I mean episodes of hitting students, slapping students,
   kicking students, hitting kids at recess with sticks (hit one in the head)
       looking up classmates blouse, pulling down classmate's pants, etc..  there                                                                              seems to be episodes such as these *documented* every two months -- and so that  serves as a low estimate...

    (this stuff I was aware of, albeit after positive spin by teachers)
   also frequent verbal outbursts in class,  hides under teacher's desk,
   and meltdowns... these type of things occur a few times a week

By highly intelligent:
   top 1%

Now, about the counseling... I didn't give out all the info...
    mother actually pulled a fast one.  she had me believing
    my son had started counseling in the summer.  in fact, i took him there once
    a few weeks before we went to court... that's the last time he
    went... (and he had only two sessions before that)


I have documentation on all the above (including tardies).


I should mentined again that I wasn't very proactive in the past and no doubt I'd get burned on this in the court room.

I should also point out that since I've been more active he has showed some signs of improvement.   His outbursts, meltdowns, etc... are still frequent but not as frequent.  However, I haven't notice any real change to the physical component of his behavior.  I've recently read a few books on troubled kids with
symptoms similar and so I feel I have a better grasp of things. I'm convinced counseling on a regular basis will be of an enormous help.

There's a lot of signs here, but as indigo and others has stressed we don't know the root of the problems
(I just have my suspicions).  So how good are these custodial evaluations?  And what other types of evaluations can be ordered through the court?  The more thorough the better.  I don't want things handled on a superficial level.

MixedBag

that right now, your best bet is to get as involved as you can with your child and follow through on what you're being told.

Then you need some time on your side to put the old stuff further behind you....it really needs to be a long time ago.

I forgot about Kitty's suggestion -- that's a good one.  Watched a mother here in town not too long ago have to go to court because her son was absent from school too often.

Peanutsdad

Absolutely no arguement on your read of the situation ;)

BUT,, IF the statement IS de facts,, there may be a chance,, if no,, then he blows a wad on attrnys fees and court. Not to mention havin one PISSED off ex to deal with.

wendl

well my ss's miss an everage of 15 days pers school year, once year is was 37 days etc.

What I would suggest is getting a statement from the teachers saying that the tardies etc are depriving the child of his education and if the child was attending school ontime and regualary the childs grades would greatly improve.  You could also talk to the school and its officials to see if it's time that mom sign somekind of agreement to get the child to school etc.

Also if the school feels counseling is needed and/or neglect maybe they should call cps and get them involved.

You could also go to court with the recommondations of the school and have mom orderd to take the child to counseling then if she fails you could file contempt.

Getting and trying to get custody is costly and time consuming, stressfull etc.

You could also try getting more visitation like the 1,3,4,5th weekends of the month.

Go to all school function if you can, and document everything.

Good Luck

Peanutsdad

Ok,,

suspicians, suppositions, allegations,, wont gain you squat in court. If you have suspicians, look into them so either come up with provable facts, or til you can dismiss them as baseless.

IMHO, It's a big mistake to even contemplate ANY type of mod based on allegations. Not only would you lose, but its highly likely that you would be ordered to pay her attrny fees.

When you say uninvolved, do you mean you didnt excercise visitation? Didnt call or write?

Final question,, does your current involvement coincide with about the time you got married? If so,, count on her attrny stressing that little fact.

wendl

you can get a GAL guardian ad litem ordered thru the courts, some suck like ours did, you can request physc evals on all parties its costly sometime they will order them sometimes they wont.

The school needs to get involved regarding behavior etc, could be due to neglect or other problems in the household if they have this feeling they are obligated to contact child protective services, I would suggest also making an appt with the teachers and school counselors to see if they have any suggestions to help you to help your child in school. I know my ss saw the school counselor for awhile upon my husbands request. By doing this maybe you can work with the school officials on a plan to help your son improve in school

Good luck

too_short

Now as I've said there are substantial documentation of the behaviour problems and tarides from the school, as well as their requests for counseling.  So there are no allegations with respect to those.   As far as the causes to those behaviors that's where the suspicions/suppositions/allegations.  My hope is the evaluations will be able to find out the causes.

Also, before the change to every other every weekend, I had visitation one weekend a month which I strictly adhered too.  Also, occasionally,  I would have him for some extra weekends (about 4 extra times in the year).  And I would call several times a week, but would be able to speak to him about once a week or two.  Also before this school year, I would make occasional visits to his school to get an idea of how things were going -- two to three times in kindergarten, first grade -- unlikethis year, I've been been to the school at least 7 times.    There's some distance involved... a 2.5 hour drive.
And about the previos visitation schedule... I had asked to have him the 1st weekend of the month and on the 3rd a saturday visit.  But his mother argued against the Saturday visit, saying he would be unruly on those days.  At the time, I was in graduate school working on my doctorate and working full time.

His mother threw up a lot of barriers.  My phone calls were seldom returned, it would be hit or missed when I could speak to him (i guess the calls are documented via both of our phone records).  Also, when he went to school A, mother didn't tell me until a few months later (after repeated requests).  The same thing happened with School B.  I expected nothing less, for she's made it clear to me she thinks I'm the scum of the earth and makes no effort to shield my son from these feelings.  I didn't make a big stink over these issues at the time because I knew nothing could be done.  I did think about going for contempt but then it would just boil down to a he say, she say type of scenario-- and there's no way I could think of a change of custody then (my family lives in the west coast, mother is in her hometown, and all my friends were grad. students with no children).   And if I bring these issues up now, it will still be he say, she say.  But at least now I have a support base.  

I hoped she would overcome her bitterness, but that hasn't been the case.  She still never notifies me of anything, and my calls are still rarely returned.  However,  his mother is starting to answer my calls more often... I'd say about 1 in 3 calls get through now.

About coinciding with the new wife with respect to the new schedule... well, I just got married late February.  I requested for the new schedule last March and we got it finalized in court in August.

Peanutsdad

Ok now,, see THAT's what I'm talkin about!! More info. Or as Johnnie5 would say...neeeed input!!


OK,, now we got a little to work with. See? that didnt hurt. We asked frank questions, you gave frank answers. We do a lot of that here.

Knowing the wHY of you not being involved,, is extremely important. As is the timing of your requests and marriage. ( Sounds stupid, but believe it or not, we've seen it play a part in cases).

As far as opening a new case,, yes you really need to get some more documentation and teachers willing to come forward. I would definitely request a home study on both parties.

As I said before, I think a lot of this will hinge on what the home study would reveal, and whether the school is willing to come forward. Even if the school/teachers are nOT willing, I personally would subpeona them and the records to court.

Indigo Mom

I'm going to be very honest about what "I" feel.

-----I should also point out that since I've been more active he has showed some signs of improvement. His outbursts, meltdowns, etc... are still frequent but not as frequent. -----

This "could" be the root of the problem.  Everyone here will tell you that two parents are needed to raise a healthy child.  You yourself admitted you weren't "proactive" in the past.  Maybe that is the problem?  Maybe he was acting out because he didn't have a positive male role model?  Focus on being with him ALOT more.  Don't focus on getting custody...get more time...more quality time.

-----However, I haven't notice any real change to the physical component of his behavior. I've recently read a few books on troubled kids with
symptoms similar and so I feel I have a better grasp of things. I'm convinced counseling on a regular basis will be of an enormous help.-----

Ok, I'm going to give you MY beliefs...and they aren't necessarily right.  Read 'em with a grain of salt...because what works for me, might not work for you.

I, too, have read a TON of books about troubled kids.  The money I've spent on them is insane.  I didn't learn anything "I" would like to use.  I don't believe in doing about 99% of what these books and therapists suggest.  People are out for a buck (IMO) and shooting off a book gets them "their" desired results, not necessarily what "you" need.

One thing I've noticed?  When I stop going..."by the book"...things started happening around here.  (my son was viciously abused)  Love, dude.  Love not only "makes the world go round", but it has the ability to do great things with "out of control" children.  Ya can't go wrong by giving extra love.  

Another thing I learned from a very wise poster here?  Focus more on the positive and less on the negative.  I believe the description was a "sandwich".  If he messes up, bring up a positive (bottom piece of bread), bring up the negative (the meat), then bring up another positive (the top piece of bread).  That way, all the negative will be surrounded by the positive.  If this child is only getting "attention" when he does negative things...that's ALL he's going to do.  Give him mucho credit for the good things he does.  Never stop praising him, he obviously needs this. I'm not sure I'm able to write it the way she did to me.....I hope so.

As for the rest of your post...I'm sorry, I don't know about evaluations.  Others here have been through them, though.  











too_short

Yes, I have checked out the statues.  He's having to attend after school detention to make up for lost time.  If this continue to happen, mother will have to appear before a judge.

For one thing, my son does have trouble transitioning from one thing to the next.  So the tardies are having an effect -- he doesn't have time to wind down with the other kids before his class starts -- instead he has to rush in, put up his book bag and be expected to focus right away in the class.   He just can't do that.

I

too_short

you have very honest opinions, just a little brusk :)