Update

[futurestep-mom_AZ]

Well it is finally over (at least for 5 months, even if the Judge said 6)
My fiance went to Court. He was totally prepared. The Judge asked why they were there and my fiance said b/c mom was using meth. The judge said before I let you guys scream it out and ask anyway I want you both to voluntarily submit to a drug test right then and there. No prob. Oh yeah mom filed an answer to an august 6 petition on oct 21 (day before Court) which my fiance never got a copy of. Anyway they go test and what do you know---> Mom is dirty for meth. Back in Court mom cries its been over 3 weeks since she used (yeah right the guy who administered the test said max 4 days) anyway judge says supervised visitation every other weekend with mom having to submit to random drug tests for 6 months (then schedules a hearing for March 25th) any dirty tests and it starts over. Custody changed from mom sole to mom and dad joint legal w/ dad primary.

The judge acted like it pained him to do this---> Did not address cs (which is paid in full and still being paid through Wage Assignment) and made no mention of tax allocation which by last order stated mom every year. My fiance is afraid to rattle the boat and for the judge to think he did it for $, but we are struggling, CS would be pointless mom hasn't worked in 3 years all state aid but the tax allocation would be nice, and the fact that my fiances CS is only $23.00 per month is easily ignored but its really the principal the judge still spoke to my fiance like he was a babysitter while mommy got better.

What does everyone think? Let it go? Judge also said if she had clean tests for  6 months he would seriosly consider restoring things to the way they were. What is this?

[joni]

--Judge also said if she had clean tests for 6 months he would seriosly consider restoring things to the way they were. What is this?--

It's called gender bias against fathers.  

Why in the world would the judge even consider giving this drugged out mother sole custody again in 6 months?  It astounds me.  Especially since the woman was so stupid to show up to court with drugs in her system.

[msme]

of action for the next 6 months. Document everything. Will the supervised visitation be at a facility or do you designate the supervisor? If it is at a facility, they should give you a copy of the visit report that tells about her interaction with the kids. Don't lose any of them. If she doesn't show for a visit, make sure they give you a receipt for your being there & her miss.

Go to the school & get a copy of their grades & attendance for last year & this year to date. Right before court, get a copy of everything from the date you got custody. If you can prove significant improvement under your care, the judge would be have to be crazy to return things to as they were.

Keep in close contact with the school counselor & the teachers. Also get statements from their teachers & subpoena the school counselor to testify.

Put the kids in counseling. Their counselor can testify to their need for stability. Church is also good for them & you too, at this time. Take all the help you can get.

Good luck & God bless.

You never get a second chance to make a first impression!

[hagatha]

>>>judge says supervised visitation every other weekend with mom having to submit to random drug tests for 6 months (then schedules a hearing for March 25th) any dirty tests and it starts over<<<

What are the chances really. that she will be able to get clean and stay clean for the entire 6 months???

Every time she tests dirty the supervision will be an additional 6 months. After 3 dirty tests you will have had the kids more than a year. You have enough time here to prove the children are better with you.

She will take care of custody all by herself. You guys just have to be patient and good parents and things will be fine.

The Witch

Remember . . . KARMA is a Wonderful Thing!!!!!

[cathy]

Sorry - don't know the specifics - -- but is there a court date in 6 months, an automatic revisit of the issues, or is that just when one of the parties can request a review?

If so, do you think mommie druggie would bother requesting a hearing?

[Kitty C.]

Plus one other thing................Keep a VERY close eye out to have her nailed for possession or purchasing.  One other problem you might have is getting the judge to put his money where his mouth is when it comes to her coming up dirty.  He may back off and not go back to 'square one'.

Get highly involved with the kids and keep CLOSE track on their progress in school.  What you want to prove over the next 6 months is that they are doing MUCH better with you than with her.  Besides school and church, get them involved in something that they like to do, whether it be Scouts, dance, martial arts or whatever.  Don't overload them....let them pick ONE thing that they'd like to do.   I understand that money is a factor, but there are always ways to get things done.  I know that Scouts (Boys and Girls) can make accomodations for low-income families and other organizations may be able to do the same.

Your goal is to show the kids have made HUGE progress in the time they've spent with you, so much so that the judge would have no choice but to keep them with you.  If she stays clean, I would recommend a graduated unsupervised visitation plan...you will have to look accomodating, but also include random drug testing for her.  Don't let her think that just because the 6 months is up, she can go back to using.  Have the visitation dependant on whether she is clean at that moment.  And she has to pay for ALL testing costs as well.

[futurestep-mom_AZ]

Yes the judge said "6 months from today (hearing was Oct. 22nd) then schedules a re-visit hearing on March 25th (nice 6 months my calculations call that 5 months) We don't even know if it is to re-vistit visitation meaning unsupervised or if it will be a full out custody battle AGAIN.

[futurestep-mom_AZ]

I want to try to answer all questions so this may be long--> Not that my first one wasn't. Anyway the child is 5 (as of early sept. state law says 5 by Aug 20th for public school). We got her into a charter kindergarten. The judge kept referring to as pre-school although my fiance tried to tell him that it is kindergarten if she does well enough she will be promoted to 1st next year. At this point child is doing great and we do have statements from teachers and staff, but definately we will keep them updated.
We are working on counseling. My fiance and I are taking a 12 week parenting skills class and hope to find a counselor for the child through that program.
Father and mother are 200 miles away from each other. Moms mom is the supervisor, she called and said that she would make mom take a test on fridays before p/u and if she failed she would not come thus leaving mom with no supervisor so no visitation. (We have had many problems with moms mom in the past but does seem concerned and will not allow harm to come to the child)
Chances of mom cleaning up? Probably real minimal. It is a very small town and shy of leaving I don't know how she will avoid the issue in order to recover.
The judge did not say that my fiance has a right to the results or that the visitation is dependent on a clean test. Should he just call? Is there something you can file to ask for clarification that would not require going to COurt? (Only b/c Court is 200 miles away and these seem like issues if asked the judge could answer.) Then if either party doesn't like the answers appeal? Its probably not that simple.

We have been looking into a little dance/cheer class that is through boys and girls club (also where her charter school is) she has wanted to join but we could never commit before b/c of the week on week off and my fiance has really wanted to get back into church also something that fell by the wayside for traveling every sunday.

Thank you everyone for all your suggestions and I will keep you posted.

[futurestep-mom_AZ]

>
>--Judge also said if she had clean tests for 6 months he would
>seriosly consider restoring things to the way they were. What
>is this?--
>
>It's called gender bias against fathers.  
>
>Why in the world would the judge even consider giving this
>drugged out mother sole custody again in 6 months?  It
>astounds me.  Especially since the woman was so stupid to show
>up to court with drugs in her system.


I feel the same way. Seriously my fiance, myself and future mother in law were there and all walked out feeling like the judge felt he was forced to appoint a "babysitter" for a couple months until poor, sweet, blameless and down trotten by the big bad ex husband mom got a chance to get back up on her feet.

It is sick. We are the type of family that will fight to the end if necessary. Appeal after appeal after appeal. I know I shouldn't worry about 5 months from now, but its not like make no payments for 5 months it this little girls safety and our family unit. I am trying to convince myself that the judge said it to give her hope to get her to work harder but thats not the taste it left.

[joni]

is it possible to have BM followed and catch her purchasing?  by law, the PI will call the police when they witness an illegal act.

[joni]

Again, I can't fathom the judge giving her sole custody in five months.  Perhaps the judge will be considering allowing her to go from supervised visitations to unsupervised.  I would ask my atty for clarification rather than spend the next 5 months fretting over this.  Make sure also that your atty reviews the judge's order and has it corrected for any ambiguities before it is finalized.

[futurestep-mom_AZ]

Biggest problem is no attorney. My fiance and mom started this fight in technically Feb. 2002 (divorce decree giving mom sole b/c my fiances mom watched the child and they had a pool under construction and my fiance made the mistake of one weekend keeping the children (one not his by blood) before the custody order and that DID NOT go over well with the judge (I have no idea what he was thinking his lawyer told him to do it) Anyway I came in in May 2002, in june 2002 we got him from eow to 50/50 (mom moved 200 miles away against judges orders). But we have done this ourselves (all filings and such) $$$ is a major issue he was disabled (but not enough for benefits) from oct 2002 to dec 2003. I was working two jobs to support our family and we finally have our heads above water but there is no $$ for an attorney. I have been to 2 years law school (not that it qualifies me but it has helped I think) I hope to get back soon now that he is able to work full time and doing well.
Can we write the judge for clarification? If he brings up the CS and/or tax allocation will it look like he's only doing it for $$$. He's not but the CS not a big deal ($23 per month) but the tax thing really would help. But he made us feel like he had already given more than he wanted to and we are scared to push the issue.

[Bolivar]

Reading waaaaaaaaayyyyy between the lines I think the judge is saying that he will review the supervised visits.

Who is paying for the supervised visits?

Reading others I have noticed that when a parent is doing drugs that they do NOT keep there supervised visits.  At the end of the six months she will be crying to the judge why she couldn't make the supervised visits and why she missed her scheduled drug test(s).

As for $23.00 a month,, I know how you feel!!! It's the principal of the thing.  I know you didn't ask,, but my opinion is let her keep the money..... for now.  Maybe she will be drug free for a month and celebrate with the CS money and buy some meth. (my lame attempt at a joke)

BTW,, congratulations!!!!!  

[futurestep-mom_AZ]

Thanks. Yeah its' the principal on the CS. But what do you think about the tax? Should we try to ask mom to sign over for 2004 taxes since if it had to go to Court it would probably go our way. The visits are supervised by her mom 200 miles away from us. The judge says she needs to interact with her daughter on her own territory in the safety of her home. Her mom has to drive with her to p/u and drop off and stay at her house. Trust me when I say this is her worst nightmare come true her and her mom have a volatile relationship at best they only ban together to beat down those pesky men who want to be active in their childrens lives. It worked with the other childs father. I hope you are right that it is just to see if unsupervised is okay. But I quote:
JUDGE"You have to be clean for six months then you have every right to file for custody modification (not visitation). (A lecture about rehab, mom crying) I will seriously consider your petition if you succeed over the next six months."
JUDGE" In order to give you something to look forward to we will set a hearing for 6 months"
(confusion over the calender)
JUDGE "March 25th (only 5 months)where I will consider a modification of this order."

My fiance was barely able to speak at all about these isssues and others like mom is a flight risk, whether visitation is cancelled if dirty test?, Does he have a right to know when the tests occur and what the results are?

Not to mention but all of a sudden (since the hearing) she no longer has a answering machine (had one before the hearing on Fri) so if Court calls and shes not home how do they tell her its time to pee?

Am I overreacting? Should we just be happy with what we got? I feel what my fiance got was a tiny repreive that will start all over in 5 months.

[Bolivar]

What does the court motion recorded say?

Does mom have overnights?

Sometime the judge will let one side write up the court appearance.  But since neither of you had lawyers representing you, I suppose the court recorder will record the motion.

The motion should mention who will decide when a drug test is need.

Document everything you are doing for the children.
Have dad take a parenting class.

BTW,, judges HATE hearing cases with NO lawyers.  So don't feel bad if the judge had a bug up his ass.  A case here being argued by NON lawyers, a judge at one point put his hands over his eyes indicating "I can't take anymore".  Later on the judge started lightly banging his head on the bench/desk again displaying his distain for having to sit through the case.

You get extra big points in heaven for irritating a judge.  


[em]The gate between heaven and hell broke, and St. Peter called to the devil,
"It's your turn to fix it."

"Sorry," said the devil. "We're too busy fixing our heating system to worry
about a little thing like a gate."

"If you don't fix it," said St. Peter, "I'll have to sue you for breaking our
working agreement."

"Is that so!" said the devil. "And just where are you going to get a lawyer?"[/em]

[Bolivar]

A cruise ship was wrecked in a storm. Next morning, the survivors found
themselves on a deserted island without food or water. They noticed the
wreckage of the ship on a sandbar only two hundred yards from the shore,
but there were sharks swimming all around the inlet.

"I'll swim out and get food," volunteered a young man. "I used to be a
lifeguard." He dove into the water and in a few minutes was attacked and
devoured by the sharks.

Another man stepped forward. "I'm only a CPA, but I'm a strong swimmer. I
can make it." But he didn't. Thirty yards offshore, the sharks tore him
apart.

Suddenly, up stepped a paunchy, bespectacled, bald-headed man. "I'm an
attorney, and I think I can get to the ship." He entered the water and
immediately eight sharks formed a two-lane escort and helped him to the ship,
then back to the beach unharmed.

"It's a miracle!" shouted one of the passengers.

"Miracle, hell!" said the lawyer. "It's just professional courtesy."

>>==<<

Q: What do you have when a lawyer is buried up to his neck in sand?
A: Not enough sand.

>>==<<

A young attorney, had been vacationing at a remote Vermont country inn.
 The last time, he'd finally managed an affair with the innkeeper's daughter.
 Now he arrived once again looking forward to an exciting few days.

As he stopped his BMW in front of the inn, his heart almost stopped.
There sat the girl with an infant on her lap!

"Rita, why didn't you write that you were pregnant? he cried.
"We could have gotten married, and the baby would have my name!"

"Well," she said, "when my folks found out about my condition,
we sat up all night talkin' and talkin' and decided
it'd be better to have a bastard in the family than a lawyer."

[futurestep-mom_AZ]

I'm doing good then b/c w/o finishing law school yet I think all parties to this case irritate the hell out of the judge.

Ther was a recorder there. We haven't received the official order of the Court so I'm hoping there more clarity than his words.

Mom does have overnights but her mom has to stay there she is not to be alone with the child at all she's not even allowed to drive to come p/u or drop-off.

The Court appointed the pre-trial advocate of the Court to randomly call and she was to "drop" w/i an hour of the call. How she will do that if she NEVER answers her phone is beyond me, but the Court decides the judges says he may call three times in one week he may not call for 2 weeks.

We do document, the Judge hates us b/c we always have six inch thick exhibits and such.
Actually someone suggested the parenting class before the trial and both me and dad signed up for a 12 week Parenting Class, he also taken the four hour class required by the courts when you get a divorce

thanks for all your help. I really appreciate it.

[futurestep-mom_AZ]

:7  Those are Great!!!!!!! Thanks for the pick me up!!!!

[joni]

1)  most court motions are either audio or video taped.  For a small fee, you can get a copy of that.

2)  can you file for a change in child support thru the court agency rather than a motion in front of a judge?  in michigan, child support modifications are made through the friend of the court who gives the adjustment to the judge after the parties sign off on it.

[futurestep-mom_AZ]

I'm not sure but the mom did go through Division of Child Support Enforcement (long story but she thought she should have $500 a month when dad had the child 50% of the time but the Judge thought she should have $3.00 we raised it to $23.00) But I know when we fought for 1 1/2 years trying to get the change we could only do it through the Judge. It is a small town. Phoenix, where we are is huge and you have to go through concillation court.  But maybe if we fax/mail the new custody order to DCSE that may do something. Like them file a stop. But we don't want to collect from her as of now, its pointless (no job three years and living off benefits from the state) she would end up being in arrears and then possible jail (trust me my fiance was almost there over a bogus decision- he had to pay all the arrears to get the judge to listen to why he didn't owe it and then have the state re-cut a check back to him for more than half the amount he supposedly owed)
But we are filing to get the child on kids care (that is a healthcare plan that based on income you pay a premium and if its not covered then the state covers it so it is state benefits, will they then go after her for support?) But neither of our jobs have benefits and outside companies are too expensive right now. But thanks for the tip. I'll definately look into it.