Christmas

[lookinnomore]

He is the custodial parent with no SET visitation.  They have always done every other weekend.  He is in the middle of a custody battle.  Christmas falls on her weekend.  They have always split Christmas morning with the boys waking up with us and then going to moms at about noon or so...... its never been her weekend.

Question:

Will it look badly on him in court if he continues in the same fashion as they have always done?   They wake up here, go to moms on Saturday at noonish...... He is willing to let her keep them longer than her normal return on Sunday night.

Have been through the social service home study and report is to be made December 18.  Social services told us when we left they saw no reason to move the boys.  Still have to jump the hoop for GAL, she doesn't want to see them till a week before court.

Question 2:

Do you believe what the home study lady said at the interview "I see no reason to move the boys, maybe mom just needs more visits"? (which she never asks for)  Or do they just say what they think you want to hear which for the record we NEVER asked what she thought.

Thanks!

[hagatha]

Is there a reason the children can't wake at mom's on Christmas?? Or is it you guys feel they should be with you??

Just because that was the way it Had been done, doesn't mean it must continue exactly that way. Switching where they wake every year is the best compromise.

Give mom christmas morning and you take the rest of the day.


The Witch

Remember . . . KARMA is a Wonderful Thing!!!

[kitten]

I think it's good that the kids have a routine and know what to expect.  Obviously if mom makes a big deal about wanting Xmas morning this year, I would not argue it.  But if everyone is happy with the same arrangement, I would think that would make both parents look good because they are succesfully co-parenting.  Especially the holiday that ALL kids look forward to.  

[T0052SC]

Since we are on the subject of christmas I have a similar question.  There has only been a temp order of a 50/50 custody right now.  Christmas eve, christmas day, the day after, and the next day all fall under my custody time with the kids.  I know the STBX has not figured this out yet but I don't know what to do.  There is a side of me that says this is my time with the kids and I know the kids don't like going to the STBX because the STBX doesa not spend time with them so why should I attemp a compromise.  There is another side that questions how this will look to the court if I stay with the current custody araingment and not swap time with the STBX.

If I don't swap time with the STBX will this have an impact in the final hearing?

Any recomendations on how I should handle the holidays?

[joni]

usually holidays supercede regular visitations.  since you're in a temp situation, it may backfire on you if you don't share the holiday.  wait to see what mom says about Xmas, let her initiate it.

[joni]

I would be devastated if we didn't have my SD every other Christmas.  Part of custody evaluations are the ability of one parent to nuture the relationship with another parent.

as I said in the other post, holidays generally supercede the regular visitation schedule, with no makeup.  if mom asks for a turn to have the boys wake up with her, I think she's entitled.  I don't think it's a valid reason to say, well...the boys have always woken up with us.  It seems rather selfish and remember, you are under the microscope with this custody battle.  It's not going to screw the kids up to wake up with the mother for Christmas!

Wait to see what mom says first, maybe she'll want to keep it like it's always been.  Sounds like you're in a great position for custody, don't get too greedy.

JMHO

[lookinnomore]

 
Thanks for all the advice!

 I guess I knew deep down that the RIGHT thing to do is let her have the holiday.  As much as I do want the boys with US on Christmas, I know she is their mother and just wants the same thing we do.  We have had them for the last 3 years, so..... OK... I know your right.

Although she hasn't even approached the subject, I know she assumes they will be at her house........so.......

Thanks again!  Wish us luck the 18th of December!

[MixedBag]

The advice given was to flip positions and let mom have the kids wake up and THEN bring them over -- so you can still have Christmas with them, it's just in the afternoon.

I got a chuckle out of my son this past weekend.  He said that his dad was concerned about WHEN they were going to have their family Christmas this year because they ALWAYS have a family Christmas even in the years he's here on that day.

I said "Now think about this for a minute, you get to spend Christmas with your dad every year, even if he just "moves the day" because you're coming here.  And we get to spend Christmas only every other year?  Who really get the short end of the stick?  You and me."

Son agreed and understood.

SHARE!  Just change the order in which everything happens.  And if it's her weekend, just ask to have the kids come over for a few hours (like from 1-7 or so...)

[cathy]

When PBFH had custody, my husband agreed to having the second half of Christmas vacation.  He wanted the kids to be able to wake up in their home (and yes, our home was their home too - but you know what I mean!) on Christmas morning.  Also, they had a younger sister.

So while it would have been nice to share xmas morning with the kids, we did what we felt was better for the kids

Of course, we have never been big on "the day" anyway.  For several years, we did Thanksgiving on Saturday because my mom was a nurse in a doctor's office and had to work on Friday.  It just didn't make sense for them to drive 2 hours to have dinner on Thursday - and have to turn around and drive 2 hours back.  We just had "Thanksgiving" on Saturday.

[backwardsbike]

I have been involved in a very painful and contentious custody situation for the last six years.  I would like to share the most important piece of knowledge that I have gained.  That is Be Flexible.  Make it your mantra.

You will  learn that you can eat Thanksgiving Dinner on a Saturday and it is still Thanksgiving.  You can celebrate Easter on a Saturday.  No you can't go to Easter church services but you can find may ways to pass along to your children the importance and meaning of the holidays.  The key seems to be having certian traditions that you can do every year no matter when you get the holiday.

This mind set has been very helpful for us but it took some getting used to.  I have learned to treasure each and every moment I get to spend with my kids and the times we get to be together as a family.  Since I have two more younger children with my DH I am working on helping the" littles"learn to cope with holidays without their "bigs".  Sometimes it is heartbreaking when they miss the bigs and cry for them.  But we continue to adapt and to change and to be flexible.

If I were you I would take the advice and split the holiday.  Since you have gotten to have the kids for the last three Christmas mornings I would defintely give that to BM this year.  

Good luck and Merry Christmas

[rainbow1]

Be pro active. Send other parent a certified letter offering to switch, make sure to use specific dates and times so there is no misunderstanding as to where the kids are and when. Give a deadline when you need an answer (nicely). Keep a copy with proof of delivery. This will show the court that you are trying to be fair and are promoting the kids relationship with the other parent.

[MYSONSDAD]

That is how I look at it. My son is too young to know what day it is. As long as we can celebrate the holiday as a family unit, it does not make a difference. It is about love and caring for those around you.

If the parents live close one another, there is no reason to let one have Christmas Eve and the other, Christmas. They are both holidays.

"Children learn what they live"

[Bolivar]

Ten – Four, on being flexible.

Because Mom is a ..........  well,,, no need to go there.

I have been seperated/divorced 3 years and I don't think I have ever celebration an event on the legitimate day.

Remember it's the SPRIT of the celebration NOT the day!*!*!


In Oct. my son gets 2 Trick–Or-Treats
Nov. he gets 2 Birthday celebration.
Dec he gets 2 X-mas.

Etc, etc............


Our Son loves the holidays!!!!!!!!!!!  He doesn't care when the official day is, he wants to know the party day  

[wendl]

lol isn't that the truth

My son gets 4 xmas' (with my inlaws, with dh and I and with his dads family and with my stepmom)
2 bdays
1 turkey day

I too had that growing up, I didn't care what day it was on, I wanted tot know the day everyone was coming over.

My inlaws do xmas early in Dec so the entire family can attend since many are married and have other inlaws to go to and many have kids so this works great for us. lol in all actuallity, my ss's and my son usually get 3-4  xmas dpending on what we. dh's ex and my ex have planned.

The important thing about holidays is it is a time to share with family and kids won't mind which day. They adapt and enjoy the celebrations with all of the family (moms/dads etc)

 **These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

[lookinnomore]

Now:

She wants Thanksgiving too.  He suggested that since Friday is her weekend, that they stay with him till 4:30, and she pick them up Thursday at 4:30 and keep them till Sunday night the usual drop off time.  This is unacceptable to her, she wants all day.  Mind you she is getting an extra day.

Is it unacceptable?

[MixedBag]

And what does the order say?

And who had it last year?

Here's the deal (again from my POV).

Divorce #1 doesn't say anything in my case about Thanksgiving.  Only alternating Christmas and News Years. (I'm the CP)

When EX was closer (travel wise) and had the weekend after Thanksgiving, I offered Thanksgiving to him.  

You know at one point in your life, you will get past "using" the kids to hurt the EX.  I know you don't think you're doing that....and I guess I would have wanted to see that you thought all the advice about switching Christmas Morning this year actually makes sense.

SHARE the kids ...

As an NCP, I can understand where she would want to have a longer weekend with the kids.  

And until the whole situation is 50/50 in terms of time, it's not fair to the kids.

[msme]

Perhaps this will work. Suggest that you continue to share the days. Mention that you are willing to let her have the first half of Christmas this year & will switch next year. However, if she insists on having all of Thanksgiving, then you will start the typical visitation practice of alternating holidays. If this is what she wants, then she can have him all day Thanksgiving & you will have him all day Christmas.

Maybe it will start her to thinking. Just make sure you do it nicely.

You never get a second chance to make a first impression!

[msme]

Bye the way, the first year of gr8Dad's divorce, she got xmas day & he had them xmas eve. To make matters more difficult, he had to work the midnight shift & wouldn't get home till just before they had to leave.

We went out to dinner & when we returned, there was a note from Santa on the door. He said that he was glad that we weren't home cuz he knew they wouldn't bethere in the morning & he hoped that they didn't mind that he had already been there.

The kids were freaking out as we took our time getting out of the car. When we opened the door, sure enough, Santa had come. The kids stayed up most of the night playing with their new things & had to be woke up to leave. The older ones have long passed the Santa age but still express wonder over how it happened. LOL

December 25th is just a date. Christmas is what you make it.

You never get a second chance to make a first impression!

[lookinnomore]

I thought we had been more than fair, cause she is the NCP she is entitled to all the "fun time"?

She got Christmas, and now wants thanksgiving too.  He told her she could pick them up at 4 or 4:30 that way the boys had thanksgiving both places, even if they didn't eat with us and ate with her it was the spending of time together.  It seems as though she wants everything, and we are willing to bed to accomadate her and her family but she is not willing to work with us.

There is no order for anything, it is liberal visitation.  Which has been every other weekend up to now.  Last 5 years she hasn't been interested in anything, now suddenly she wants it all, where do we fit in?  

[lookinnomore]

That was a good idea, will try that one tonight THANKS

[lookinnomore]

GREAT story, you sound very wise!

[MixedBag]

liberal means sharing every other holiday or the actual day.

[lookinnomore]

I agree, but doesn't seem as though she wants to share, seems as though she wants what she wants with no consideration to anyone but herself and her family.

[msme]

Stay calm & document every contact. Keep the eow & work to split the holidays as best you can. Channel your anger. If you haven't seen a counselor, do so now. Do it for several reasons. First, it will help you keep things in perspective. Second, it will give you some one to vent to. Third, it will look good in court. You recognize the stress it has put on you & you sought help to be the best parent you can be, in spite of all the conflict.

One of the most important things gr8Dad learned from his counselor was that you must stop trying to apply rational thinking to an irrational person. So, she wants everything & more. So what! You only have to give what the law demands. Educate yourself. There is a wealth of knowledge on this site.

PD has a whole list of things to help you figure things out. I am sure he will be happy to post them for you. Read them all & take lots of notes. Make sure your attorney is a Board Certified Family Law & Custody Specialist. If he isn't, get a new lawyer. It sounds like your lawyer is taking orders from her lawyer. That is not good.

You never get a second chance to make a first impression!