Custodial Parent's right to say "No" to Non-Custodial Parent

[evANGEL]

I'm new to this sight; forgive me if this is long. I need help with my current situation. I am the custodial parent, Mother, of my 5-year-old Son. My son lives with me & my new husband full time due to my son's father moving out of state since August. He also has refused to pay child support since June of this year. He has only visited my son once in the last 4 months for one week at my suggestion while my new husband & I took our 5-day honeymoon.

Now, my son's father, who I'll now refer to as the NCP, wants to come back to visit for his allowed days, T-W-Th, take my son to Epcot - which means taking him out of his school (private pre-school that I pay for). The NCP was given my son's days off for the holidays & told me he was going to make arrangements for Epcot during this time. Now, it has changed to Jan. 4-6. I refuse to let my son miss school when he just had his Holiday Vacation. Does anyone know if I have the right to say "No" to these plans?

[wendl]

Personally speaking as a mom and a stepmom.

Is dad thinking of taking your son during his court ordered visistation??? If so he can depending on what the current court orders say.

Come on now it's preschool, it won't hurt the child to miss a few days to be able to spend it with his father.  I took my son out of school for 2 days (and he is in middle school so he would miss a lot more than a preschooler) so he could go see his father over the holidiays.

Sometimes we as parents need to think of how the NCP feels, many get reduced to visitors in their childrens life and that isn't fair to the children whom love them no matter what we may think of our ex's.
 
**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

[Stepmom0418]

I am also a mom and a stepmom so I can see both sides to this.

I agree with the other post. It is only preschool and that is his father. A child deserves a relationship with both parents. Also child support has NOTHING to do with the child and the father having a relationship. It is your responsibility as a mother to support your child in having  a relationship with the father.

You said:

Now, my son's father, who I'll now refer to as the NCP, wants to come back to visit for his allowed days, T-W-Th, take my son to Epcot - which means taking him out of his school (private pre-school that I pay for).

Question:
1) What else would you refer to him as other than the NCP? That is what he is a parent even if you do have your own issues with him you dont need to involve your child in those issues.

2)What does you paying for the cost of the private daycare have to do with the child going on this visitation?

What I seen in this post was alot of emotion felt by you that is going to interfere with the childs relationship with his father and it is very disturbing to me and I am sure many others here.

[evANGEL]

Thank you for your responses. I will answer your questions & concerns.
1) I simply meant in my post that I will refer to him as the NCP instead of writing "my son's father". That's it.

2) I added that I pay for the pre-school costs because I feel that this aids in his decision because he doesn't have the same responsibilities that I have & he should.

Take into consideration that by one post that I made, you don't know me or my whole situation. It's unfair to judge based on a few comments that were taken the wrong way. I was simply looking for an answer & opinions.

My son is also a special needs child, having epilepsy. This makes it even more important to have a schedule. I'm trying to teach my child the importance of routine & discipline. Why is the NCP being excused for not also trying to teach his son such structure? Sure, I agree it's important to have relationships with both parents. I encourage my son to take the phone calls & explain to him it's OK to love us both & to never feel guilty.

I think everyone in this situation finds it hard to avoid emotions of all kinds. I do step back & try to see what is best for my son.

I don't think it's fair that the NCP has decided to not take advantage of his time agreed between the 2 of us & by the court order of T-W-TH & then expects to just drop-in when he feels it's best for him. What about my son's wants & needs? He doesn't understand this. So, as his Mother I want to protect him from being hurt.

There is a lot more to my story that I could go on about. I'd appreciate other responses to my first question in order to help me.
Thank you.

[rey]

You have the right to say "no" to any requests from the NCP for time that isn't specifically granted in the custody & visitation order.

If you're like me, it probably helps you to know (really know) what your rights are under the law...and being in the power position (as you probably are in this case) is a *big* bonus. And you will also no doubt realize that laws are clunky tools at best for mediating emotions and relationships.

So yes, you do have the right to say "no" to any requests from the NCP for time that isn't specifically granted in the custody & visitation order, but that does not (necessarily) mean that denying such a request is "right." You are probably still pretty angry at your ex (for whatever reason(s))...if there are not safety/endangerment issues (e.g. your ex drives drunk regulalrly etc.), I would suggest letting your child have the time with his father. If you think you're too close to/angry about the situation to make a fair decision, ask the advice of a close friend (someone close enough to know your situation, but 'far' enough that they aren't emotionally invested in it).

Good luck. It sucks to be in that hostile-ex-partners state...sucks even more when you're trying to navigate what's 'fair' in regards to the child. :(

[evANGEL]

Thank you for your response, as well. I do just want to clarify one point: I'm not trying to say "No" to the whole visit, I'm trying to have the right to say "No" to missing school. I'd rather the trip was done on a non-shool day. Better yet, should have been done while on the Holiday Break. That's all. I'm not in anyway trying to prohibit my son from visiting his father.

[wendl]

EvAngel,

I will explain my situation, my son is 12 he rarely sees his father, his dads choice. He pops in and out when he so chooses, he rarely pays child support and has never paid for medical or daycare, I have supported our son 98% financially and emotionally.

My son also has a form of epilepsy and is on medication for it, but in no way would this make any difference in regards to my ex's visitation. Kids schedules are broken all the time as well as adults, we learn to adapt to our given circumstances for the sake of our children.


Unfortunately you cannot control how your ex behaves, you need to do the best with the hand you were dealt. We cannot control when our ex's decide to come see our kids, sometimes their may be other reasons for them not seeing the kids, I know why my ex doesn't see his son, but hey it's his choice.

I have always been honest with my son, and when he ever asked why his dad didn't show, I simply said "I don't know you will need to ask dad" of course dad always gave bs excuses but that is out of my control. When my son was little and asked why his dad didn't love him, I reply that everyone shows loves and caring differently and that I am sure his father loves him in his own way.

By being open with my son and in trying to help my ex have a relationship with his father (even though he doesn't) it has brought my son and I closer.


**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

[Darryl]

Sounds to me, from your post, that he is wanting his son on his actual court-ordered days. You can say "no" but you will be in contempt of the court. You would be the one 'not following' a 'court-ordered' parenting plan.

I have an 'ex' that has absolutely no regard for the parenting plan. She has even went so far to state "I don't care what the judge said, if you want to see your daughter you will do it my way." At some point I gave up and went away, too broke to fight anymore and endure 'the emotional games". My daughter has suffered and I have suffered. But 'mommy' won.  Could I keep fighting back, you bet. Can I afford to, no way. It was a losing battle. It takes many acts of contempt on your part before you would ever be punished or lose your child.

Dad is at your mercy somewhat. Go ahead and be unreasonable. Force Dad out of your childs life willfully. You'll be the queen.........Until your child grows up and realizes the TRUE story. Then maybe he will resent you for it. What goes around comes around!!

It's all about POWER AND CONTROL, isn't that the REAL issue? You'll show him who is in charge won't you?????????

[evANGEL]

Holy crap, I'm not your ex-wife!

[evANGEL]

Wendl,
I appreciate your honest opinion & answers. I know that this is on the NCP days, so I probably can't do anything about it. I am trying to do what is in the best interest of my child & that is school, rules, etc. I'm NOT trying to keep him from his father!!!!!
Thanks!

[jolawanda]

what type of epilepsy does he have?

Because epilepsy does NOT make a child *special needs*. Epilepsy does NOT interfere with teaching routine and discipline.

That is the reason I would like to know what type? How old is he? I might have missed that.

[Darryl]

>Holy crap, I'm not your ex-wife!


Ummmmmmm.......... Sorry, I get carried away sometimes when I am reminded of my ordeal with my "one-night-stand" ex-from-hell, who is "ENTITLED TO EVERYTHING YOU GOT M.F.!"  "Just pay the money and shut up!!!!"


Actually, on a lighter note, can't you just try and work together. If it is his parenting time per the court order, he should have it. To deny it is only fostering hate and resentment that will only grow worse over the years. Put yourself in his shoes. How would you like to be reduced to a 'VISITOR' in your childrens lives? To realize that your opinions no longer count, etc.........

[wendl]

Hun all I am saying is for your child to miss pre school is not really that big of a deal if this is during dads court ordered visitation time. Like a NCP they have no control over what you decide to do with your child just like you have no decision over what the other parent does during their time.

I think at times us mothers over think a lot of things in what we feel is in our childrends best interest and let our emotions run wild, it sounds like you are willing to work with dad and that is great.

SO basically if dad doesn't take the child to school during his visitation time that is his choice, ya you could go to court and try to file something against him but then you will end up being in court over and over again.

I also think that at times of holidays when people are responding to posts they may not be totally thinking clearly as they may have been denied their chidlren this year, so please don't read into it to much what some posters may write, some are probably responding to the hurt they are feeling during the holidays due to not being able to spend the holidays with their children.

:)


**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

[backwardsbike]

Hi!

I just read all of these posts.  I guess we kinda put you through the mill here a little bit, didn't we.  LOL.   Few things arouse emotions around here more than "parenting time".

I am a nCP mom.  I probably have one of the more convoluted stories here.  I was a 50-50 mom for one year and ten months until CP decided my home was unsafe.  Not that he needed any evidence to do this.  Anyway that is a whole other post.

As to your question:  put yourself in your son's position.  That is what I always do when these things come up.  I tend to do this even as the NCP with a very minimal amout of time.  I just cannot bear to see my kids miss opportunities.  Their dad has way more $$ than I do.  He also has liberal vacation time etc, etc.  I have always allowed the special trips to take place.

Please note that I am the NCP so my methods are not the way to "win".  But I do have happy kids and when I look at the woman who looks back at me each morning from the mirror I can honestly say that I respect her.  I feel I have done what is in the "best interest of the children" at least 97% of the time during this custody mess.

Now for your concerns about routiens and the importance of school.  They are valid.  But it is preschool.  Sometimes a child learns in ways in which we do not expect.  On a trip like this he could learn how great it feels to spend time with his dad.  He could learn how good it feels when his parents cooperate.  He could learn a lot of things from going to Epcot.  Their minds are like little sponges.  They soak it all in.  Consider it a field trip.  You may think about going back to court for clarification if this happens a lot.  You could possibly have something added to your order about not taking the child out of school but I wouldn't do it if it is just this once.  Did the dad say why he didn't use the holiday vacation time?  Keeping the lines of communication between the two of you open will benefit your child in the long run.  It is easier said than done but do try not to be judgemental.

Good luck to all of you.  No role in this scenario is easy.  Not the CP's role, not the NCP's role not the step-parent's role and definitly not the child's role.  But the rest are all adults and should have better coping skills so I always try to make things as easy as possible for the kids.

[Skooter95]

I totally agree with the previous poster. I am also a NCP mom and have our daughter about 40% of the time.  It is very hard to let those feelings go for your ex who also has more money than me but I have always encouraged the vacations/trips for our daughter.   I know that you think that pre-k is important but its not really THAT important to miss a couple of days.  
In fact, my ex husband who has primary custody wanted to take our daughter on a cruise during my scheduled visitation which also meant she would miss a week of school and also would miss a mandatory county test. I wasn't too happy about her missing school or the testing, BUT, I knew she would want to go and she was able to make up the testing so everything worked out.  We swapped time and I allowed her to go with her dad and stepmom and their children.  Its all about working together and communication. You have to sit back and think, is it really worth arguing over???  Won't the child have fun? Sure he will.

[KAT]

Lady your kid doesn't care what the court order says or about missing a few days of PRE SCHOOL all he cares about it spending time with his DAD. You can put school & the court order aside if you have a heart. Is power tripping to you is more important the your child having fun with his DAD. His DADDY. The man that was good enough at one time to procreat with...sheezzz. Is this the hill you want to die on? Of course not.
If you are looking for justification you aren't going to find it here.
KAT

[Kitty C.]

I am a BM and SM, and DS's father lived 1800 miles away.  I have taken him out of school, either at the end of the school year or near Christmas vacation, so that he could be with his dad.  Oftentimes it was either because of travel costs or weather that added those days.  And I'd do it again in a heartbeat, if it meant DS could spend time with his dad.  You see, his father died of cancer 2 1/2 years ago while DS was spending the summer with him.  And DS is now in HS.

For your son to miss a few days of pre-school is a drop in the bucket.  And routine is an illusion.  DS is severely ADHD and if routine and stability is paramount for any child, it certainly is with him.  Achieving it is a pipe dream.  It's impossible.  Because LIFE gets in the way.

On the other side, my SS lives ONLY 2 blocks away and is on vacation as well.  DH has asked to have him an extra day this Friday (picking him up Thurs. night), since it is our weekend to have him.  But I swear I'll have a heart attack if the PBFH says yes.  We're THIS close, THIS available, and it's ONLY one day.  But because she doesn't see it as in the best interest of her son, but giving an extra day to DH, she will more than likely say no.  It has and always will be a control issue with her, as it is with many PBFH's mentioned here on these boards.

Put the control issues and feelings against your ex aside, consider the child's age and the 'neccessity' for him to be in pre-school compared to the importance of building the father-child relationship and you will have your answer................

[Lawmoe]

If it is not specifically provide for in your order, you are within your rights to say "no"

If he wants to take it to court, he can. It will be too late and the court would likely side wth you.  

[smtotwo]

First, as the mother of an epileptic child, and having epilepsy myself, routine and schedules DO NOT in any play a part in whether he will suffer seizures.

My concern WOULD BE, however that overstimulation, and epcot could be very overstimulating, could cause seizures. I was specifically told that video games, strobe lights, and headlights flashing or coming towards the car at night could trigger seizures in both myself and my son.

My son did go with his dad 3 times to disney world and never suffered adverse effects from the trip.

Now, I'll try to be diplomatic about this so please don't take offense.
Private pre-school is not a necessity.  Even if he were to pay support, more than likely this wouldn't be covered.  My youngest son has C.P.
and he still spends at least eow with his dad. And he has missed some school so the visits could take place.

Please for the sake of your son allow this visit.  Nothing can take the place of the bioparent, no matter how much we may try.

And I say "we" because as the cp of all 4 of my kids, I wasn't always acting in their best interest because of my own anger.
Then I met DH and saw what he was going through and have really done a turn around on the last 6 yrs.

[smtotwo]

over the top!!   YIKES!!!

[ShellyD]

that this is a very good and rational answer. I wish everyone had the same concern for the sanctity of a father(ncp)\child relationship. But then it seems that the rationality tends to be more prevailent in people who are both cp AND ncp's.

[backwardsbike]

Wonderfully well said Kitty.  Thank you.

[backwardsbike]

Sad to say that in my experience this is what happens.  What I'd like to know is where is "Best Interests of the Child" in these kinds of rulings?

[MixedBag]

In the heart of the CP who has the main control over the whole situation....

If it's not in their heart, it just won't be there.

In my opinon, there are two answers to this situation:

One is legal

One is with the child's best interest.....

[Avaya]

Didn't you say his visitation is Tue, Wed, Thur?  That will never be on non-school days except during vacations.  If those are his visitation days, then you do not have the right to deny those days.  Yes, the preschool that you have the child enrolled in is important, but not more important than spending time with is other parent that he doesn't see often due to where he lives.  YOU think he 'should have' made this trip during the Christmas vacation, but perhaps he couldn't.  Do you want him knocking on your door telling you what YOU 'should have' done?  Neither of you have that right.  If that's his visitation time, then he should get that time.  You are in contempt if you deny it.