Parenting Agreement.

[teakae]

For everybody's entertainment... Let me know if anybody thinks this is funny.

The rules below are what our PBFH came up with all on her own to include in the parenting plan.  The Father, ofcourse, agreed to all of them. Hopefully, she will now at least sign something and agree to "a" schedule...


1.   Father agrees to never cut or dye M's hair for any reason whatsoever. Mother agrees to maintain M's hair and will always ensure that her hair does not cover any part of M's eyes.

2.   Father agrees to never threaten Mother with the kids.

3.   Father agrees that Mother's instructions given over the telephone shall be followed by both children over instructions given by his girlfriend.

4.   Father agrees to make every effort to ensure that his girlfriend always speak pleasantly to both children at all times.

5.   Father agrees to not allow  to be outside for the purpose of picking up strange snakes.

6.   Father shall make every effort to communicate with Mother and understand Mother's feelings. Father agrees to attend and pay for counseling sessions in order to improve his communication skills and to better understand Mother. Mother shall make every effort to attend these sessions with Father to facilitate his understanding.

7.   Father shall not call Mother any names whatsoever.

8.   Father shall help out with the care of both children by helping paying for food, clothing and paying his child support.

9.   Father agrees to pay $450 dollars per child, per month in child support to the mother based on Florida State Child Support Guidelines.

11.   Child support to the mother shall continue until the child finishes high school or turns 18 years of age whichever occurs earlier.

12.   Mother shall attend a parenting class as ordered by the court for divorcing parents.

13.   Father shall always available to provide child care when Mother cannot watch the children to make sure she does not have to hire and pay for a babysitter.

14.   Father shall make sure to spend more time outdoors with Z who is a boy, instead of keeping him in the house in front of a TV or computer. Examples of suitable activities for a young boy include fishing, playing catch, and skateboarding at the skate park. By doing these activities Father shall provide Z with the type of attention he craves.

[cathy]

Not about PBFH coming up with this, that I can believe.  But the father AGREED to this bullshit?!?!?!

This is ridiculous!  Talk about wanting total CONTROL!  I can't imagine that a judge would be amused at all.  And I can't imagine that it sets an good procedence.

Give in to this stupidity and it will just be the seed that keeps growing.  She will keep total control over your lives when the kids are there.

Oh - and I love number 13.  What?  Is father suppose to never leave the house again to be a babysitter when needed?

Personally - I think it is a BIG, HUGE, TREMENDOUS mistake to agree to this crap.

[teakae]

HA!
Number 13. The really funny part comes up because Mother drives past Father's house every morning to drop the kids off at a babysitter so she can start her shift at a gas station at 6am in the morning. Mother gets off at 2pm but prefers babysitter to pick up and watch the children because she is busy.. and had given explicit instructions, father cannot pick the kids up instead. She doen't understand "right of first refusal" and she will rather drive additional 10 miles and pay for child care than have father watch them.

The girlfriend, ofcourse, which is me. Has never used a four letter word which in contrast, Mother says "fucking school" fucking dinner" "bastard of a father" "your daddy''s whore / cunt" ...

Number 4.. I guess snakes that are familiar are ok. Like a snake he met yesterday...or a poisonous frog is not a snake.

Number 8.. Father was paying her over 2K per month plus health insurance and had agreed to pay for anything for the kids as long as there was a receipt...Now the court ordered child support is much much less..

number 14 Father always takes the kids places and does things with them. Mother sits them in front of a TV most afternoons. The reason she said this is because the kids were complaining about how they  never got to go to the roller rink and do things at the day camp during winter break. The kids were complaining because father promised to let them go when he had them but never got around to taking them. The reason why he couldn't take them was because Mother suddenly showed up to pick up the kids at 11:30pm with the police and cut the visitation short. Why? because she "thought Father was going to take the kids away".

He agreed to this because the items are so stupid and specific that it is easier to agree to them than try to explain to her it is a stupid rule.  She had all year to come up with rules and a visitation schedule and she has finally come up with something. which is more than nothing which is what we had before.

Oh and I forgot. Number 1. When Father had the girl's hair cut, mother went and got son's ear peirced and daughters hair permed as retaliation but ofcourse, thats OK by her because Father cut daughters hair with out permission.

[cathy]

This woman will do everything she can to make your live miserable - and she will probably succeed!

See, if you agree to this she will hold it over your head at her convenience.  She will be able to threaten all kinds of insane stuff.  She will use this nonsense to extrapolate any and every controlling maneuver she can think of. She is poison.

PBFH had her lovely stuff in her motions and offers.  She didn't want me to do the kids laundry!  She actually wanted the court order to state that ONLY the NATURAL parents would assist in doing the children's laundry.

And I really think he needs to rethink the logic of agreeing (probably in a legally binding document?) to items that he even acknowledges are so stupid.  And you would be surprised - there are not that specific.  She will twist them in every way imaginable.  

I guess the biggest thing that would bother me is that he is giving up his right to truly be a father and control what happens with his kids while they are in his care.  His ex should not have control over what goes on in his home, in regards to you or his kids.

I hear so much of our PBFH in this - it is scary.  Nothing will work with this woman.   Like the last one about doing things with the kids outside (or is this only for the son???).   We would do things with the kids on the weekend - go swimming at the YMCA, go to a movie, whatever.  PBFH would call and complain - asking why we always had to be so busy.  Why couldn't we stay home and play cards!

I would never ever ever agree to something so controlling and so stupid........

[teakae]

I couldn't agree more about not signing something so stupid. Which is the reason they haven't been able to agree on anything for a whole year. During which, visitation was at the Mother's whim and a complete night mare. She threatens and cajoles and bribes the children to do as her bidding and throws a tantrum and gets the kids involved crying and fussing.
She even at one point said that the kids should choose which parent they wanted to spend the night with on a daily bases. She said "the children's wishes of whom they want to stay with will not be played like pingpong between the parents and will be adressed and answered before a schedule is decided". Yes, she actually wrote this down in the parenting agreement.

Yes she is terrible... but... She already rules the household by remote control anyway. So what about a few more in writing if she is going to agree to a visitation schedule that is somewhat fixed. Maybe...

We kept the holiday visitation the same as it was 'every other year'. She objected to that saying that each holiday should be split equally with in that day so children can enjoy christmas day with both parents.
Whatever, Father doesn't care what the schedule is as long as he gets his time with the kids. No matter how inconvenient or inpractical it is, it is still time with the kids. And we know that she won't even let him have access to the kids if she feels that she doesn't have control.

She dumps them on the Father's doorstep because she forgot the babysitter was closed that day. When Father finds a babysitter and then goes to work late, she threatens he should have never left the kids in a strangers care and that she would have rather quit work than for that to have happened. Now, with the current agreement, because it is worded to her benefit, it is the father's responsiblity to provide or find day care "for her". So indirectly he is getting the right of first refusal.

She said father has visitation first week and last week of summer vacation. Father said thats not fair. She said that they should leave this one by saying "the parents will decide when the time comes" in the schedule.. Father can't agree to only 2 weeks and doesn't want to agree to "parents decided when the time comes". but if he doesn't the whole deal will fall through and last year will be repeated. We hope that summer is far away enough that securing today's visitation is more important than worrying about that. So  he will sign saying "parents will decided later".

I swear, she just wants to be involved in his life as much as possible...

ps ONLY natural parents doing laundry... hahaha!!.. Our PBFH said that kids didn't have any clothes because father doesn't pay child support to let her buy new stuff when she doesn't have time to do laundry. Father suggested that he do all of the kids laundry for her since he was unhappy with the wrinkled dirty clothes the kids were wearing. So she shut up about that.

The main reason for no visitation with father is because children need stablity and that they are in school so they have no time for their dad.  Father said that he can quit work and home school the kids. Mother says well then I won't get c hild support! And the kids must go to public school so they learn how to "share" and not be selfish!!!. Yeah.. I guess she was homeschooled...

[lovebug]

I agree! Run away! #13 Okay, Fathers are not babysitters. Fathers are parents and do not watch their own children. Fathers parent and care for their children. #7  my ex tried to use this only she even went as far as to tell me I could not call her by her FIRST name. I had to address her as MRS. (my last name) because she didn't think it was appropriate for our type of relationship. I kid you not. Regarding #6 is father not allowed to have feelings of his own?#14 okay all I have to say about that is...Father should do what father thinks is appropriate while child is in his care. If father is sick or injured these activities would be impossible for father to make sure take place. And what is the definition of "more". How many minutes or hours per visit is sufficient?

Do not agree to these "terms" simpily because to think she will follow a visitation schedule. She will most likely not follow the schedule unless she feels that you are meeting her terms in the manner that suits her and only her. She will make these rules impossible to follow perfectly.

Look at her past behavior and tell me if you really think that this will do any good?

Probably not, and never agree to anything that says "parents will agree at a later date" unless you have something worded like " In the alternative, if parents cannot come to an agreement by such and such a date that this schedule will be imposed upon both parents" Then put in the schedule you want and add a little more time for good measure.

Don't sign this as it is. It will not help you get more visitation.

~D~

[leftoverinmn]

#15. Father's girlfriend is allowed to threaten the mother with strange snakes.

#16. Father's girlfriend shall cook said strange snakes for a bedtime snack per instructions of mother. 350 degrees for 25 min.

#17. Father's counciling session to better understand the mother will take place at the local veterinarians office.

#18. Father shall communicate with the mother by mooing and barking..

I know I'm new here, but that's too much.

[teakae]

Thats Great!
Yeah, the sad thing is that BM thinks these are well thought out rules. I know there are a lot of vindictive controlling people out there but when that is combined with stupidity you really have something.

I think the "strange snakes" just says it all. Anybody in their right mind can see that for one, she is controlling, and that she can't think past the current moment nor can she string 3 coherent words together.

In the end, the parenting rules are moot. All we can do is make her feel good about the control she has over us and have her ease off for a moment of peace.

[jilly]

I have to agree with everyone else.  I know your DH has already agreed to these insane requirements but it ain't over til the fat lady sings. If it hasn't been signed and filed with the Court then DON'T SIGN IT.  This is going to cause more problems in the long run and your DH is going to be kicking himself for ever agreeing to it.

My personal favorite is the snake!  ROFLMBO

[Avaya]

  The Father, ofcourse,
>agreed to all of them.

I think he's as crazy as she is!  LOLLOL

>2.   Father agrees to never threaten Mother with the kids.

What about Mother?  Can she threaten Father with the kids?

>
>3.   Father agrees that Mother's instructions given over the
>telephone shall be followed by both children over instructions
>given by his girlfriend.
>

What about if he gets married and no longer has a girlfriend?  

>7.   Father shall not call Mother any names whatsoever.

So . . . . . what is he supposed to call her?  LOLLOLLOL
>

>11.   Child support to the mother shall continue until the child
>finishes high school or turns 18 years of age whichever occurs
>earlier.

Ooh, she's gonna wish she hadn't done this one.  Lots of seniors turn 18 before they graduate high school.  
>
>>13.   Father shall always available to provide child care when
>Mother cannot watch the children to make sure she does not
>have to hire and pay for a babysitter.

Cool, most BM's I know would RATHER pay a babysitter than ask the dad to spend extra time with his child.  That's a good one - until she realizes what she's done.

What a loon.

[teakae]

Thank you for all of your comments.

It will be easy for us not to sign these contracts. But what then?
We are totally at loss as to what to do next. I would really appreciate any suggestions.

History..
After second child was born Mother filed for child support
Mother was granted sole custody in WA state.
Father gets every other weekend visitation.
Couple of months later Father reconciled with Mother because he missed his children.
Mother and Father lived together for 8 years.
Year and a half ago, Father separates from Mother.

Mother and father try to do rotating custody 50/50.
They can't agree on schedule, custody, child support.
Mother thwarts every effort to maintain any stable schedule.
Mother continues to ask for more and more money.
After six months of this, Father hires a lawyer to get a fixed schedule and a fixed child support amount.
Mother decides on her own that the original visitation schedule of every other weekend should be enforced.
Mother does every possible PAS things to children she can think of.
Mother delays court proceedings as much as she can, you know the story...

Some time during this whole thing, Father's attorney gets bored with the case and shuffles his feet.
Trial in Nov postponed because lawyers couldn't get mediation set up.
Mediation is continued but lawyers fail to set up the follow up mediation.
Father hears nothing from the lawyers and calls but no response for over a month after mediation.
Father decides to dismiss lawyer and hire new one.
When father receives the documents from lawyers office, he discovers that there is a docket sounding to set trial date for Jan 2005. Surprised, he hurries to retain an attorney.
Attorneys request a lot of money up front which father can't come up with. They also say  they can't take the case unless the judge grants a continuance at the docket sounding. Judge gets annoyed at the docket sounding because 5 people in a row requested a continuance. So he decides to deny all continuance from then forward. Father is denied continuance along with everybody else.

We found out that the old attorney did file some things for us, Motion for custody evaluation and Filing of financial affadavit (which we sent it over Last March) it was just that he forgot to tell us he did these things.

So here we are, Jan 5th. We go to trial on Jan 12nd. We have no lawyer, no custody evaluation, no witnesses, no evidence to present and a cranky judge who preferrs mothers as primary residential parents.
And ofcourse, the Mother is selfish, vindictive and incredibly stupid.

We really don't know what to do. If anybody can help, any advice will be appreciated.

[Genie]

like her not calling you any names

her not talking bad about you (or her BFs or husbands)

she should make every effort to communicate with you and understand your feelings also.

Basically this is making her into a victim and you having to basically do everything she says so her feelings aren't hurt in anyway. Guess yours don't count.

Also, if you are paying CS, you shouldn't be paying for food and clothes too b/c that is what CS is for.  So she will get your money then gives you receipts for food and clothes and expect you to pay for all or part of that too.  Must be nice.

And how are going 100% going to make yourself available to watch the kids. You work too don't you? How much vacation time do you have? So you can lose your job but she won't?  Can see how this can cause problems.

But this is kinda funny.  I like how she gets to dictate how you spend time with your kids.  Major PB thing.  Our BM tried this all the time. Do this with them don't do this with them.  But in reality the kids weren't telling them all we did so she just thought they said in front of the TV all day long which was wrong.

Good luck. Can see this becoming a major headache in the future.

[teakae]

Oh how I wish we could make all the things go both ways...

Below are some items WE wanted to include but BM said NO WAY!!

•   The Parents are restrained from making negative statements about the other Parent or Step-Parent in the presence of said children, and shall not allow any other person to make negative statements about the other Parent or Step-Parent in the presence of said children.

•   Each Party shall not deny parenting or custodial rights due to a refusal to provide said financial contribution. Nor shall they speak of or mention any aspect of their grievance regarding financial contributions of the other party in the presence of said children.

•   Each Parent agrees not to use obscene or vulgar language in the presence of the children and must discourage use of such language in said children at all times. Obscene or vulgar language is defined as those words and phrases that are not allowed to be broadcast on network television.

•   Each Parent shall have the right to choose their own Parenting style and punishments, providing their methods and results are not prevented by law and do not constitute abuse

•   Both parties shall acknowledge that this is a high conflict separation and shall make all practical efforts to minimize direct contact with the other party to avoid further confrontations with the other party especially in the presence of the children.

•   The Parents shall not use said children or any other person except a designated messenger, to deliver any messages to the other party.  Letters and notes may be transported by the children given that they are enclosed in a sealed envelope addressed to the other parent.

•   Neither Parent shall use the children, directly or indirectly, to gather or pump information about the other Parent's lifestyle, parenting style, emotional or financial state.


Only only, if I had a brain... (BM singing)

[teakae]

YOU GOT IT!!!!

The child support till 18 part!!! hahaha

And the babysitting part! She adamently REFUSED to agree to the Right of First Refusal but she was happy to agree to this!!

Now we just call her "uh!" "...." Thats fine with us because we don't want to talk to her anyway. Gives a good reason not to talk to her.. hell we can't even adress her anyway..lol

Girlfriend.... She specified my name. but ofcourse if I change my name it should be fine. She also specifiec Father's name and her name in all of the items too. Stupid Stupid Stupid...

Father wanted me to tell you guys, I know she is a loon, I hate being a loon along side her but its for the kids... Tell me what I should do if you have a better suggestion...

[ksmomof2girls]

 Each Parent agrees not to use obscene or vulgar language in the presence of the children and must discourage use of such language in said children at all times. Obscene or vulgar language is defined as those words and phrases that are not allowed to be broadcast on network television.

Ummmm....I have heard some language on network television that children shouldn't hear.  Like A$$, B*tch......

but that is a good one to put in there.  Since being with my BF of almost 3 yrs, he has stopped using foul language around children...especially mine, and really dislikes it when other adults uses it around my girls and other children.  And he DOESN'T have any of his own nor wants any of his own!!!!!!  Go figure.

Maybe I need to add that one in there as the SM and X uses that kind of language around our girls.  Oh, yeah..SM even called her son an A$$hole in front of us one night while we there...Loud enough for him to hear..( I think he was 11 yrs old at the time)

Good luck....

Do you have documentation on when BF has had the children,etc?

[jilly]

One other comment...the reference to child support shouldn't be included in the parenting plan.  Those are two separate issues and one (supposedly) has nothing to do with the other.  If she's already getting CS from your DH then it's a non-issue.  Also, the length of time your DH is to pay CS (graduate from HS or 18) is statutory.  I think in most States it's pretty much the norm that CS is paid until the child graduates from HS or turns 18.

[Avaya]

She specified your name?  That's even more stupid for her.  Parents are permanent;  Stepparents sometimes aren't; Girlfriends/boyfriends often aren't.  It' s stupid to mention one of them by name in a parenting plan.  If that list had gone to a courtroom, a judge never would have allowed it.

[almostastepmom]

I'm in WA State and going through something just like this.  I'm the girlfriend and I am telling my SO to get a lawyer and do it now.  He finally did and I will HIGHLY recommend her.  We haven't gone to court but all I can say is get one and get one now!  You will be sorry in the long run and so will the kids.  We really couldn't afford an attorney, but we will do everything we can to make sure she gets paid so the job gets done..... The ex will continue to ask for more money, change the rules to her likeing and then stab you in the back when something isn't done to her likeing.  Just take my advice :  LAWYER, LAWYER, LAWYER
Good Luck
 

[Hardware Queen]

Would it help to see a boilerplate that Multnomah County (Portland, OR) uses? The one section in it that I find bizarre is the one phonecall per week, but the rest is pretty fair. http://www.ojd.state.or.us/osca/cpsd/courtimprovement/familylaw/documents/mul8075.pdf. You might want to see if your county/state has something similar.

Our parenting plan was loosely based on that. Here is what my ex and I mediated. I should add that we also decided the receiving parent picks up the children, although that was a verbal agreement.

Parenting Schedule.  The children's primary residence shall be with Mother subject to Father's rights of reasonable and seasonable access and parenting time as set forth below. The following provisions may be modified by agreement of both parties.

Alternate Weekends and Mid-Week Parenting Time.  The children shall be with Father on alternate weekends from Thursday evening after Father's work to Monday morning, and at such other times as the parties agree.

Whenever the weekend falls adjacent to a school holiday or legal holiday, excluding a holiday designated below, the weekend shall include that holiday and begin one day early on Wednesday evening or end one day late on Monday evening as necessary to include the holiday.

Loss of Regularly-Scheduled Alternate Weekends.  Other periods of parenting time established by this schedule supersede  regularly scheduled weekend time. A loss of regularly scheduled alternative weekends may result from specific holidays and vacations on this parenting schedule or as otherwise agreed. However, if the holiday schedule results in one parent having the children three weekends in a row, the parties shall modify the alternating weekend schedule commencing with the weekend following the holiday weekend.

Holidays

Easter.  The children shall be with Mother in even-numbered years, and with Father in odd-numbered years.

Memorial Day.  The children shall be with Father in even-numbered years, and with Mother in odd-numbered years.

Mother's Day/Father's Day.  The children shall be with Mother on Mother's Day and with Father on Father's Day.

Independence Day.  The children shall be with Mother in even-numbered years, and with Father in odd-numbered years.

Labor Day.  The children shall be with Father in even-numbered years, and with Mother in odd-numbered years.

Thanksgiving Holiday.  The children shall be with Mother in even-numbered years, and with Father in odd-numbered years.

Christmas Holiday.  In even-numbered years, the children shall be with Mother from the beginning of Winter Break until Christmas Eve at 11 p.m., and with Father for the remainder of Winter Break. In odd-numbered years, the children shall be with Father from the beginning of Winter Break until Christmas Eve at 11 p.m., and with Mother for the remainder of Winter Break.

Spring Vacation.  The children shall be with Mother in even-numbered years, and with Father in odd-numbered years.

Birthdays.  Each party shall have the opportunity to spend time with the children on the children's respective birthdays. The children shall spend time with Mother on her birthday, and with Father on his birthday.

Extended Vacations.  Each party shall have the right to take the children for extended periods of four (4) weeks per year. Each party agrees to give reasonable notice to the other parent in advance of scheduling extended vacation time with the children.
(Note: many plans indicate a specific time for notification, such as six weeks, rather than the ambiguous "reasonable").

Later on in the CO, is the section regarding Rights of First Refusal:

Parent Unavailable.  The parties agree that if either one of them is unable to care for the children for extended periods when the children are scheduled to be with that parent, he or she shall first contact the other parent in order to provide that parent the first opportunity to care for the children.

[teakae]

Thanks for this information. We wanted a Thurs to Mon visitation just like it you specified. But reality was far from the truth. The judge didn't want to hear any details of what she was doing to the kids, didn't want to see any evidence, and believed the mother when she said "kids need stablity".

[teakae]

Well, it has been 2 weeks since the post and I am writing to update everyone.

After the mother presented these rules, we were able to agree to some sort of visitation schedule.

Every weekend with father.
Father can take the kids 2pm to 7pm during weekdays if he wants
First week of summer with father.
Last week of summer with father.
Every other holiday alternating.

Then, mother decided to run this by her lawyer.
Surprise surprise!!! Lawyer told her to take out all the "rules" and said he will draft up the visitation and child support amounts.
Mother tells father "none of this is any good!" as if he was the one that came up with the crap. And "we have to include a clause that says, mother can cancel the weekend visits with father if she so desires". She also said that children can only go to one day camp in the summer and only if father pays for it. Like if they go to karate day camp for a week, they can't go to the marine park day camp... Ugh... what happened to "throwing all the stupid rules away". She just turned around and made more rules.

But anyway, father shows up at mother's lawyers office to read and sign the agreement drafted by the lawyer.

Suprise Suprise!

It says...
Primary residental parent with mother.
Every other holiday.
One mid week visit from 2pm to 7pm with mother's approval.
2 UNconsecutive weeks in summer to be specified by mother
Back child support of 7k
Attorney's fees of 5k.

There was ABSOLUTELY NO mention of any weekend visitation!

Ofcourse, father didn't sign and told mother that he can't sign it because there is no visitation in it for him. Mother said "OH why do you always have to argue with me! You know you are going to get visitation regardless of what it says on that peice of paper!!! Why do you have to make it SO DIFFICULT FOR ME ALL THE TIME!!!"

So off we went to trial. With out a lawyer.

In the end, we got less than what we already had.
Every other weekend
Every other holiday
2 unconsecutive weeks in summer (no weekends in summer)
No creidt towards 7K in back child support.
70% of 5K in her mediation and attorney's fees

Mother said "the kids need stablity"
Father said "Stability is not just same old same old, it is knowing what to expect and kids can thrive in two house holds"
Judge said "kids need stablity with their mother"

Mother was evicted from her duplex in Dec, moved in with her boy friend that she has known since Nov. Now she is breaking up with her boyfriend, and will be moving out by the end of Jan. But that didn't matter to the judge.

Mother brought a picture drawn by the boy that shows father's girlfriend getting stabbed through the heart with a knife. Judge didn't care that it was drawn 2 years ago, before the boy even met the girlfriend and the only reason he drew it was because mother coaxed him to do so.

Father asked that the court to order continueing co parenting counseling and therapy for both parents and kids at his expence. Judge said that that shouldn't be necessary.

Father tried to read out relevant dates and parts from the extensive log he wrote over the past year and back it up with police reports and e-mails from mother. Judge said he wasn't interested in details and told him to move on.

When father tried to show him a table that lists all the pros and cons of each parent based on the Florida Statutes for child custody. Judge waved it away and said that didn't have any relevance in this case.

As it turns out, the reason the "every other weekend" wasn't in the document the lawyer drafted was due to a typo. Judge looked at the document and said, well, you don't have anything about weekends in here. The lawyer said "what!, Oh I must have forgotten..." Yeah, he didn't forget his own fees..

After trial, mother calls father and says "regardless of what that court paper says, you can ask to take the kids any time you know. Just call and ask me".
Yeah, that always worked, she can just show up with the police to pick them up at 11pm like she aways does when she feels like it.

Although we knew this was going to happen, it is a crushing blow. The kids will miss out in the end. But there is nothing we can do for now. Its devastating for us.