Can an Irrational Ex be denied visitation?

[BP412]

I currently live with my girlfriend in TX.  She moved to TX from WY a few years ago to get away from a crazy ex husband who constantly harrasses and threatens not only her but me as well.  In the 3 plus yrs she has been in TX he has hardly visited their 2 very young children, but is adamant that he get custody now.  He is extremely abusive verbally on the phone to her and the children and we have had enough.  She just wants him to go away and hates having to get law enforcement involved because they never do anything.  She has been told that her ex is allowed to speak to or see the kids anytime he wants to. That, I believe, does not justify up to 100 phone calls a day to include countless emails and text messages.  According to her WY divorce all she has to do is provide him reasonable access, but law enforcement debates the issue of what one person feels might be reasonable is unreasonable to another.....so they go with the least restrictive interpretation.  I have about had it and am convinced that if this crazy man ever gets ahold of the children we will never see them again as he is adamant that no other man will ever be around his kids.  He seems to have the attitude that if he cant have them....then no one can.  He cycles on using that same logic about my girlfriend too.  I believe that since he acts like he has nothing to lose.....he will do anything to just because he can.

It seems like his past behaviour is of no consequence when dealing with LE.  My girlfriend is now convinced to just try and deny him visitation (which he has not tried to exercise in over a year) and just let him take her to court.  Is that the "due process" or can she actually go to jail and lose the kids?  The property is in both our names (on the lease) and I dont want him near it. We have both tried numerous times to be reasonable with him and to make every effort to have him fully involved in the children's lives to include "making him the hero" to their kids.  But he wont have anything to do with it and just resorts to violent behaviour spewing threats and expletives at everyone.......including the kids.  We are logging his abusive phone calls and text messages and emails. and I have encouraged her to file police reports for harrassment and to get protective orders and restraining orders when possible.  She has also been told by LE that she has to go back to WY and get her divorce decree ammended as TX cant do that for her.  WTF???  I am currently out of town and it is a bit difficult with me not there to keep her focused.  What can I do?  What can she do ?  What can we do?

[ocean]

First she needs to get her papers filed and accepted in TX. You need to file for change of jurisdiction. Since she lived in TX more than 6 months this should be very easy as long as there are NO current cases in the other state with active court dates. Call your family court and see what paperwork you need to fill out to do this.

Next, He is states away. IGNORE. Change cell phone number, give him ONE contact number and let that go to voicemail or machine. Emails, either block him or IGNORE (save them but very hard to get emails into trial anyway).

Reasonable visitation is just that. Since it is not specified then she can not get in trouble. It is up to him to bring her back to court for specified dates and times now that he has been away for so long and the constant harassment. You really want to get it changed to your state so it forces him to go to your state to file and for the hearings. The local police can not do anything even with a court order, they will write it up and tell you to go to family court.

Once this gets to court, he should get visits in his home state. THe kids will learn to fly to their dads. He should get half of school holidays and most of the summer. So you may want to ask him to send you in writing what he wants as far as parenting time and see if you can work something out or the courts will decide for you.

[BP412]

But we dont want him to get any visitation because he has made so many abusive threats.  We fear he will kill the children just so that no one else can raise them.  As of now....he never visits anyway, but has recently threatened to do so when he found out she was dating me.  He cycles about every 2-3 months on these abusive tirades, each time the level of violence escalates.  Last time he ended up not showing up for some unknown reason.  We are hoping the same thing happens again.  He has tried to kill my girlfriend and her kids before, but it got pleaded down to a trespassing violation instead.  He also has abducted the kids before on a supervised vistitation .......just eluded her and took off.  That too got pleaded down to a misdemeanor.   

I do like the tips on getting the change of jurisdiction switched to TX...that will help a lot. As will the other tips.  Thank you!

[BP412]

OK..need some more help here from you legal savvy people out there.  What other courses of action do we need to pursue to get this psycho to stop his persistant harrasment and abusive behaviour?  Kids are scared and the g/f is scared.  All the cops can do is take a report and say go to family court...........but that doesn't stop the barrage of phone calls and text messages and emails.......  What does it really take?  Come on people.....I know someone out there has a viable and legal solution.  He is unsafe and unwilling to work out anything with anyone.  All he does is spew hate and cursing and threats.  If we just ignore him completely and turn the ringer off are we somehow in contempt of the original child custody order as per her divorce?  What happens then.......does she or do we go to jail or does he have to file complaints with the courts first?  How do we buy ourselves some time to ensure that he can be legally neutralized?  I do fear that if he shows up, then it will get dangerous and the cops won't be able to do anything till it is too late.   I know that there are state and federal harrassment and stalking laws already in place to help prevent this, but the cops wont do anything until there is actual physical harm done (even though the statutes do not require physical contact).  But, by then it will be too late.  He acts like he does not have a thing to lose and he is not beyond attempting to kill to get what he wants.  He has tried before..........for less.

Remember that show from the 1980's......."The Equalizer"??  WOW!  That sure would be nice to have "Robert McCall" available now!   I dont want to do anything illegal because that defeats the purpose and I am not going to jail for his rotten sake, but it is understandable how some folks have been pushed over the edge because the system will not or is unable to help.  There has to be an answer somewhere.  Anyone???

[ocean]

The next time the calls come in, tape them or let them go to voicemail. If he threatens on the voicemail, call the police and have them file charges against him (harassment charges). Get a copy of your phone bill, showing the constant phone calls and bring them to the police station, they may take that and file harassment charges.

Take the police reports to family court and get ask for a restraining order (same day, you will go before a judge). If the judge believes your story they will issue a RO. THe RO will be served to him by a sheriff and he will be given a date to show up, usually within 2 weeks and he can fight it and you need to prove why you need it. At the same time, you can file to have the case switched over to your home state and then you can ask for supervised visits due to the father has not seen children in a year and past history. (or leave it alone and let him file by you...why fight it if he is not going to come down there?)...

You will be dealing with this nut for a long time. IGNORE...He is states away. Change the home number so it is not ringing off the hook...and let her cell go to voicemail (if that is getting out of hand, change that number too). He cant fight you if there is no one to fight with. Ignore emails unless it is a specific request for visits. You can send him a certified letter that states that you will only discuss visits through certified mail. Simple letter, just stating that and signed. Then do it.

You really need to get the court switched to you so you have more control. If he goes now to his state and starts an active case then TX wont take it until things are settled.

[Davy]

I have to differ with Ocean.  TX probably will not take jurisdiction and the statues (UCCJA/PKPA are clear that WY retain jurisdiction as long as the left -behind remains a resident of WY.  TX has no personal jurisdiction of a WY resident and can not place orders against him unless he commits a crime in TX (and then it is way too late).  At the same time WY has jurisdiction over all partys in matters concerning  the children.

Especially if the threats are considered real then the case can be expedited in WY since WY is more than likely familiar with the parties involved and probable more evidence available in WY.

Please protect these WY children now and in the future and do not depend in an out-of-state court resolve a WY problem.   

[ocean]

Davy-
She has been there 3 years with the kids. If there are no pending issues in other state, why wouldnt TX switch it over. Kids have been there over the 6 month mark?

[Davy]

Ocean, I will try to be brief but the standards (UCCJA/PKPA) are "uniformed" acts with the intent and favor were to be passed and applied across all states.  As it written, the 6 month time lined applies to a left behind parent to obtain initial and continuing jurisdiction over the matters in the home state as long as the left behind parent remains a resident in that home state.  And it follows that another state can not modify the custody decision thus giving another state jurisction over a person in the other state.  It stands that most relevant information and testimony concerning the partys is available at the initial proceeding. It is difficult for a novice like me to write upbut the statues are fairly straight forward.

As it pertains to the current scenario, it is hard enough to get a ligimate hearing in TX for TX residents let alone dealing with out of state matters / rulings much of which would be based on hearsay or other wise may conflict with TX rules of evidence.  Needless to say, the costs and time involved considering appeals, etc could be astronomical.

These statues were partly (in my opinion) developed to protect an innocent left behind spouse against false accusations but it also works in a situation like this where Tx may not allow some testimony and then the kids end up not being protected and everybody involved could have a huge mess on their hands.  No doubt the most relevant information for any parent exists where they live ...not hundred of miles away.  The overriding emphasis in on the protection of children not the convenience of the contesting partys. ....Whew ......

Hope this helps.

BY the way, if a proceeding was started in TX and the father was denied visitation then he could file in WY thus creating "judicial competition" which is also covered my the statues and then TX looses that battle ... WY might be PO'd and order the kids returned to WY.

Things might not be as practical as they first appear...and the kids suffer.

[ocean]

Then why does it happen all the time? I totally understand why that is though...if CP's were smart, they would all move to NY and get extra child support to 21!

[BP412]

Thank you Ocean and Davy for your input.  I am definitely more educated on this matter now.  I will have to admit that Davy's version of what happens seems to be what we have experienced in TX.  Many of the obstacles we have dealt with in TX were never explained to us this way.  The last thing we need is for those kids be court ordered back to WY just because her ex is being manipulative.  I am sure I will have some specifics to ask later on...but thanks for the intro into our next few legal moves.

[MixedBag]

I have to agree with Davy -- until BOTH parents leave the original jurisdiction, it stays.

Ocean, even your comment about "moving to NY" and stuff should not, I repeat SHOULD NOT work.

Does either one of these situations happen in court "all the time"?  I would lean towards yes, but that doesn't make it right.  I would also lean towards that WHEN it happens, it's because one parent doesn't understand their rights, and the other reason I won't post because I'm sure my activity here is still being monitored.

I was divorced in England, military move took me to WV, and then to AL.  Emancipation in England is 18.  Alabama is 19.  I could not get CS until the two daughters turned 19, because AL enforced the British definition.

[MixedBag]

BP412 -- back to you.

Think this one through carefully.

If you're getting harrassing e-mails, change your e-mail address.

If you don't want to do that, learn to ignore and hit delete.

BUT then again, are the e-mails expressing a desire to have time with the child?  If so, then they're not really harassing.

Phone calls:  change the number.

AGAIN, if the parent is getting upset because ALL contact with their child is being DENIED -- think about it.  That would probably drive you crazy as well.

Does the MOM have a real reason -- like is dad hurting the child -- to deny parenting time?

[BP412]

OK MixedBag, to answer your questions......here is the deal.......

I have just ignored his harrasing emails, which NEVER expressed an interest in spending time with his kids, only what he planned to do to me and how he was going to ruin my life (using ever expletive possible) to include badmouthing his ex wife (my girlfriend). After a brief period.......his emails have stopped to me........and now have stopped to her.  We took some previous advice and she told him over the phone and by certified mail (notarized letter) that due to his recent abusive behaviour that she was limiting his contact with the children to a 1 hr window per day which she deemed as more than reasonable contact as per the divorce decree.  Since then, he has sent her emails and instant messages expressing his hurt feelings and the he wishes she would not do that sort of thing to him and ignore him like that and that he still loved her (especially after calling her every bad name in the book - classic signs of an abuser).  Since then, he has made no effort to contact her or the children at all.  We suspect he is re-grouping for something bigger..........seems to be his "m.o".

This crazy man, the children's father, was NOT getting upset because he was being denied contact..........he was getting upset because he is an abuser who thrives on terrorizing his ex wive's and children and people were trying to limit his power.  When someone tries to put a stop to his behaviour or points it out to him, he becomes more crazed and more upset.  Like I said, he has been previously arrested for kidnapping and attempting to kill them.....but pleaded it down to simple trespassing (kniving lawyers at work there too).  We found out today that his older children and first ex wife are still experiencing the same things from him that my girlfriend and I are.  He terrorizes them mercilessly to where the kids want their names changed and no contact with him either.  Both ex wive's now want sole custody with no contact and want to be able to change their children's last name.  NO this is not a conspiracy against a poor father who is caught in the system against him...... It is a coincidence based upon an abusive man's terroristic behaviour and his belief that he is allowed to do anything he wants to do as long as he is violent enough.

As for denying him parenting time............he has physically hurt the children in the past, to include kicking and choking and punching.  His major feat nowadays is more mental and emotional (primarily since he has not physically seen them in quite a while and the last few times he did he was completely unsupervised).  He plays serious mind games with the little ones and makes them grandiose promises. Then when they don't pan out he blames their mother, when she is totally clueless as to what he promised in the first place.  He tells them evil things he plans to do to their mother and to me and uses inappropriate language in describing it.  He also plants false ideas in their heads as to who people are about and what is going on in the family and who I am. This not only confuses them but hurts and annoys them too. And then he tries to extract certain details from the children to find names and contact information on who "mommy's" friends are.   

Freedom of religion aside........ and I am no "bible thumper"........but we (g/f and I) both find it disturbing as to how he spews out how he sold his sole to Satan and wants control of his children, etc.. and he will take out anyone who stands in his way.  Even if this were chalked up to non-sensical chatter...... One can conclude that this behaviour might be a result of an actual or perceived mental state that should not require us to be too tolerant, especially when impressionable children are factored into the equation.

Also.....think about this.......would you want your ex to be spending time with your kids when he does not care to spend time with them but instead harasses you incessantly and calls you and your friends ugly names in front of the kids and then threatens your life and safety???  This whole situation is NOT about the kids.  He uses that as an excuse to carry out his terroristic and threatening behaviour.  He blames everyone for his failures and short comings.  There is no reasoning with him at all.  We have tried to be nice to him and to work things out in a civil manner - it just wont work and it makes him more angry than before.

I think that we seemed to have received several good ideas on how to proceed in stopping this guy in is tracks (all legal).  We are just making sure we mind our Ps and Qs and capture all the eividence we need and remain blameless here.  Doesnt help to goad him as the courts will definitely hold it against us for that.  We shall see how it goes from here.  Thanks everyone for your input.

[ocean]

You are allowing him to get to you. Until he shows up at your step asking for visitation, IGNORE. He has made NO attempt to see them so just ignore and move on with your lives. If his phone calls are not appropriate, limit it to 5 minutes, say hello to daddy and stand right there so if the phone call is going south, take phone away. Also, it can be limited to twice a week so you are not dealing with this every day. Just let his phone calls go to voicemail.

If you start things in court, then he will "win" time in his state and get it specified. You will NOT be able to change their names UNLESS father gives up rights and you are willing to adopt them. You can not force him to give up his rights. The kids can change their name at 18 legally. The father needs to sign the paper to change their name and I do not think he will do that.

His past will be looked at he may have to have supervised at the beginning..(and that is a BIG maybe) since most things are very hard to get into evidence especially if he has a lawyer. Be careful about rushing to court to change things. Right now the reasonable visitation is just that. You can more control this way. You can offer him time in your state at a public place when he comes to your state for now. Let him take you to court....he wants a fight...ignore and he will pop up every so often but just ignore or deal with it then.