Interpretation Question (Yay.)

[gemini3]

Ok, so wording of CO states:

"Visitation for the father is hereby ordered as follows..."

In the paragraph about holidays it says "The parties shall alternate holidays, with the father having the children in odd years on _________ (lists all the holidays for odd years), and in even years on ________."  For Thanksgiving it says "which shall commence at 6:00 p.m the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, and conclude at 6:00 p.m. the Sunday following Thanksgiving...."

It also states that father has children the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th weekends of the month.

This year is the "off" year for Thanksgiving with Dad because he had them last year on Thanksgiving.  But, he still gets the 4th weekend, right?

BM is saying that he doesn't get the 4th weekend because she gets Thanksgiving this year, so she keeps them until Sunday.  The way we read the CO it lists the dates and times that the father has visitation, not the mother, since she has custody and has them all the time anyway.

She refused to let him have the kids for the 4th weekend.  I know we have to file for contempt.  Does anyone see any ambiguity?

[ocean]

Sorry , I agree with BM on this one....
I think holiday schedule supersedes weekend schedule. So she gets the Thanksgiving holiday from wed-sunday. Just like if you were to get the whole holiday next year even if it is not your weekend.

[gemini3]

But the CO doesn't mention that the mother gets the kids at any times.  It only states the dates and times that the father gets them.  The mother has them all other times.   

The only part that is slightly ambiguous is that is says "the parties shall alternate holidays" - but then it goes on to say the father has them in odd years at such-and-such times, and in even years at such-and-such times.  Nowhere in it does it mention the mother.  It's saying that the father has holidays in alternate years, and then further outlines what those holidays are, etc.

It is not a joint order.  She has physical custody, so visitation is only outlined for the father.  He gets the whole holiday next year because that's what's given to him in the CO.

Also, the last year that his came up (the first one covered by CO) he had the kids the 4th weekend of the month.  She's, of course, now saying that she just did that as a favor to him.  The truth is she made plans with someone for the weekend following, so she's changing things to fit her wants.

[MomofTwo]

I agree with Ocean and BM..(sorry)... if the CO states to alternate holidays and specifically designates Thanskgiving as "which shall commence at 6:00 p.m the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, and conclude at 6:00 p.m. the Sunday following Thanksgiving...." then whoever has Thanksgiving that year has those designated days for that holiday.   The CO is setting the Thanksgiving holiday for whoever's year it is as specifically those days. Next year for Thanksgiving, he gets Wednesday @ 6pm through Sunday at 6pm.

[MixedBag]

O.K., that second post definitely adds to the first.

I say that IF you file contempt -- it can go either way and therefore I would not file.

By saying that the order doesn't clarify that Mom gets the off years, you have an ambigious order.  Normally, holidays alternate.  Normally when something is spelled out as a right to the non-custodial parent, it's also a right for the custodial parent.  It works the same way for other subjects -- like phone contact.   

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.....and vice versa.

NOW....however, you have (well, dad has) a fairly new order.

And past years' interpretations and actions help define the order.

If I'm understanding this right -- last year mom defined her time with the kids over thanksgiving as being less than what dad gets in his years....by sending them to dad's over the weekend right after thanksgiving (as her babysitter because she had other plans).

So pick and choose your battles...

Personally, I think the court will lean and order that the entire weekend is considered "Thanksgiving" and that what mom did this year is how it will be in the future.

I don't think you'll get a contempt.

I think you'll get a clarification.

[gemini3]

A clarification would be fine with us.  The less fighting the better, as far as I'm concerned.  And we'd really like to know what we're dealing with so we can make plans.  My husbands family and my family both live out of state - so it makes it very difficult to make holiday plans when we don't know who's going to be where.  Last time she said he has the weekend after Thanksgiving.  But this year she had plans to take the kids to something, so this year she says he doesn't have them.

Last time we were going to spend Thanksgiving with my family and had to cancel because we were supposed to get the kids the weekend after.  This time we stayed here because we thought he would have the kids (based on last year) and family came here - and she decides that he doesn't have them two days before.  So the kids didn't get to see family.

To me, the order isn't ambiguous.  She has them all the time, except at the times that the CO says dad has visitation. 

[MixedBag]

Then file for a clarification and ask for make-up time for the weekend that in dad's (and your) opinion he was denied.

It's a gentler approach....but the result will be the same.

You'll get a clarification

AND you might get the weekend at least made up.