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BM is late picking up child

Started by NYParent, Dec 21, 2009, 02:00:40 PM

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NYParent

In the past BM has been late picking up DD during drop off days......how long do you guys wait after the court ordered drop off time before you leave if the other parent is late?  The exchange will be happening at the police dept., as per my request, so that it is easier to document when the other parent is late rather than getting receipts, etc.

In the past I have waiting up to an hour for BM to show up, but I don't feel like doing that anymore especially since BM would never do something like that for me. 

ocean

Half hour without a phone call....depending on traffic or weather.....
What if you called her right before you left and state you are leaving and if she is not there by XXX (15 minutes later?) you are leaving....(then wait the 30 minutes...get receipt...) Then leave?

mdegol

I think ocean has a good suggestion, but are you traveling to Texas for the visits?  I mean, maybe the approach is different with the distance and the expense as well as the time in between visits.  Makes them more precious.  That would be a huge waste of travel and a big disappointment for your daughter if it is prior to your visit.  Could send an unintended message to child?  I have called BF when he was late more than 20 minutes for picking up son.  He is coming from Texas and these visits are highly anticipated.  Once they lost their luggage and were many hours late, but I had to call them to see why.  Seemed strange that I needed to be the pro-active one, but I don't think they understand that I can move on with my day if they are too late and I don't hear anything. 

Or is it when BM picks daughter up after the visit?  If you don't wait with daughter, what would you do?  Go back to hotel room with daughter?  Or fly back to NY with her (bet BM is never late again!)?  What are your ideas?  I have similar issues also, so it would be interesting to see different takes on this.  Seems like a different issue when long distance is involved.  Because what if you have a flight?

I will say, that is why my lawyer said it is better if his pickup takes place from my home and my pickup takes place at his hotel, since there is control over timing, so you don't have both the parties traveling to meet.  Of course, normal adults should be able to handle it, but it is just the sort of thing that a vindictive person can use to be late (traffic, getting out of house, cell phone dead, ect....).

NYParent

I have never been late to pick up DD.  I always give myself extra time in the event there's a delay or something.  Plus my time with her is so limited, that it is precious.

The problem is BM is always late picking up DD.  The last time she was an hour late and I almost missed my flight.  On anther occassion she was two hours late.  This time though I have extra days in TX because she wouldn' agree to the extra time and the judge went for her crap, so I am planning on not waiting around for BM to show up.  Exchanges happen down the road from her home....it's not traffic, it's that she does it to be a b*tch.

I am planning on hand delivering a letter to her stating that she should be at our court ordered exchange location promply at our court ordered exchange time because I have made plans for the remainder days I am in TX and that I cannot be late.  I will state that if she does not meet me at the agreed time I will be unavailable to meet for exchanges until four days later when I am flying out and that taking DD will be considered additional parenting time.

I am planning on being at our drop off location at the court ordered time.  I will give her a half hour and if she's not there and does no call me I will leave with DD.

Truthfully I am hoping that once again she will be late.  I got my ticket with the hopes of spending a week and a half with DD, and her not showing up would be great.  I guess I am just trying to find a way to extend my time with her without disobeying the court order.  I also feel like I am being generuous by giving her advance warning in writing of my intention to leave if she's not there on time.  In the past I have waited because I have a flight to catch, but this time I have extra time and would like to spend it with DD.

mdegol

Sounds like a good plan, but if she understands that you will get extra time, I doubt she will be late.  Maybe leave out the additional parenting time part.  Just "I am unavailable for next exchange until such and such time".  Then when she is late text her "You are late, so I will be taking DD with me and consider it additional parenting time.  I will meet you (here) at this time on that day".  The point to being late is to mess up your flight, so if you will benefit from it, she has no motivation to be late.  What a jerk.  With the flights, if you ever miss she should have to pay for the new flight.  You should put that into the CO, or some other punishment with some teeth.

Kitty C.

Absolutely........do NOT let her know that you will be spending extended time in TX beyond your time with your child.  Especially if she's always late just to make things difficult for you in the past with return flights.  I agree with mdegol...only tell her that if she is not there at the court-ordered time, you will leave with DD and will not be available until X date and time.  Period.

In DH's order it stated that if he were over 30 min. late, he forfeited his parenting time.......UNLESS he called within 2 hours of the designated time and informed BM that he would be late.  She tried to push the issue only one time (he was late and he DID call) and when he had to read the order back to her and asked her if she seriously wanted to go back to court over the issue, then he would make sure she paid for all court costs and atty. fees.  She never tried it again.

If or when you ever get back to court, I would strongly recommend adding something similar to the order and, in the future, give yourself a day or so leeway so that she can't screw with it again.  But do NOT ever give her information on your personal plans (like staying longer), because with her history, she will find a way to screw with it and you.
Handle every stressful situation like a dog........if you can't play with it or eat it, pee on it and walk away.......

ocean

Hand delivering wont count in court. You need to send it certified mail or even overnight if you are pressed for time. Just the facts...exchange is at xx time and place, if you are not here by that time then I will take child for additional parenting time. For this trip, I wont be able to return to the exchange until xx day.time."

I would call the local police and see what they would do if this happened and then she called them say...an hour later. I can see BM trying to get an amber alert sent out since you are a flight risk so until you get this done in court you really have to watch with what you do this time. See if the letter works...it might when she thinks you will take child for more time.

mdegol

Ocean's right.  An amber alert would not be a good outcome, and she sounds like the type.  Probably the letter will keep her from being late.  Do you have a lawyer in Texas yet?  Also, even if the judge didn't give you additional time, but maybe your lawyer could try to negotiate for it.  People tend to be more generous when a court date looms in the distance (even if you have to return her a day or two and then see her again for 2 days or something).  I don't think it looks very good if you are there and she doesn't let you see child when you can't see her very often.  But a modification like Kitty has would be great in your case. 

NYParent

I am pressed for time.  Due to holiday mail, they can't even guarantee overnight delivery.  I am going to attempt to hand deliver (which she will refuse) and then I will send overnight and first class mail (since she refuses to sign for things).  I will have someone with me during the exchange, so there will be a witness in the event she refuses the hand delivery and then claims she didn't.

My whole reasoning for stating within the letter that I would be staying in TX additional days and it would be considered additional parenting time is because I don't want her to contact the police and send out some sort of amber alert.....or when we go back to court for her to state that I hid the child from her.  I think it would look more favorable in court that I told her be here xx time, if you are late I am unavailable until XX date and XX time.  During the in time the child is with me she will be in TX and this will be considered additional parenting time.

I had an attorney in TX, but I am not using him again.  I didn't think he was aggressive enough to deal with BM's attorney.

MomofTwo

You need to proceed with caution...if the orders give you from xx date to xx date, you can't say you are taking additional time if she isn't there.   You handing Mom a letter telling her that doesn't mean anything in court and her refusing it doesn't mean anything.   It's a slippery slope and with all things that have transpired, you need to do everything to ensure return happens when it's supposed to happen and do not keep the child any longer.  It could be very bad for you if you do. I know it's a pain, but I would wait it out if she is late.


CuriousMom

My CO states that if either parent is 20 minutes late and does not contact the other parent within this 20 minutes to notify of the late exchange, parent then having custody is entitled to keep child until next scheduled exchange.


MixedBag

I'm not sure I'd say anythiing at all...

Then when she is late -- did I catch that you do exchanges at the police department?

Go to the desk and let them know what's up -- and get the person's NAME.

Then call Mom and let her know where she can pick up the child at any time from there on out.

If it's more inconvenient to mom....because you're going elsewhere, fine...so what.  You documented and were at the exchange.

Amber alert???  I'm leaning on the side that it won't happen because DAD will have notified the police that the child isn't kidnapped or anything right up front....just that Mom is late, and that he's not waiting for Mom anymore.

Call mom -- she'll have your cell anyways, right?  And make alternate arrangements when she is late.

And you'll have a witness with you to testify/document that you had no intention of kidnapping the child -- because you don't -- and I doubt MOM will do much besides rant and rave.....and make your cell phone ring off the hook.


ocean

Yeah...You need to tell the local police what you are doing and when/where the child will be for pick-up. If not, the mother will go to police and say you are keeping them from her. A letter does not give you the right to keep they a few days...maybe a few hours until mom can get there. When you get to court this needs to be addressed since this is a big issue with her. Maybe if you have those extra days, you can file a few modifications and maybe a contempt if she is not following the order this visit.

bloom6372

When you are in Court, see if you can get put into your parenting plan that ANY time you are in the state of Texas, you are to have the child, as long as you give the mother advance notice (probably putting a time frame, like 7 days, would be best). DH has this in his CO for the state SD lives in (though there's no time frame for notification). BM CANNOT deny him any extra parenting time during his trips to SD's state, and he doesn't have to stay in SD's city, either. As long as he's in the state. It's a good idea for custody between two states.

I have to agree that going in to the police station would be best. Maybe, if it's not too much trouble, type something up beforehand that has blanks for the exchange time, and the time that you showed up and have an officer sign it. Have the same thing for when you leave. That way, it shows how long you waited. Informing the police of contact information for you and your child, and that you are leaving after waiting # of minutes after exchange time, will help make sure that you aren't charged with kidnapping. However, I do have to say that I don't think you can keep her for a few extra days because the mom is late. Maybe a few hours (maybe overnight if the exchange is near bedtime for the child).

Davy

This parent (and her family) are likely candidates to continue to be neglectful and disrespectful to the child and the other parent until a judiciary seriously removes her thunder.  Needless to say she causes a great burden to all she comes in contact with. (ie daycare, parenting time exchanges, law enforcement ... ) and she has refused compliance with court orders as well. 

Law Enforcement has a dislike for monitoring or babysitting custody exchanges.  Large communities may monitor the station with cameras and in a smaller community dispatch will have to free up a patrol car and travel back to the station.  The public does not want to add officers or incurr additional expenses for such BS.  Officers may want to arrest someone ( $$ ) for something and it is usually a male. 

Whatever the situation, this behavior by the wrongful parent is a detriment to the child.

Compare this situation to picking up the the child from a return flight at the airport (as it should be).

I hope the father follows the court order to the "T" but if the mother does not comply (again) then to continue caring for the child.  There's absolutley no need to broadcast your intentions in advance or jump through hoops contacting the other parent by phone when she is out of compliance.  The father is fully capable of parenting the child and their is no need to parent the other parent.  Her neglectful and disrespectful behavior will come thru loud and clear even to the most casual of observers.

BTW, Amber alerts originated in north Tx and are taken very seriously. This situation does not even come close to meeting the criteria (unless someone has political connections).  Just answer the phone if/when authorities call.

ocean

If she went into the police station all upset and said I dont know where he is with her, he doesnt live in the state, and I dont know his number...he would be in hot water. We were just telling him to tell police his number and location and that mother did not show up. Otherwise, BM would make this into a full circus and not what the child needs to see.

Davy

#16
Come on in ... the water 's fine.

Law enforcement (LE) will likely be aware that Dad and child have been hangin in there WAITING for the exchange.  There's no need to tell them the obvious and if there's any communication with LE it would be best for them to know she has his cell phone number or otherwise know how to contact him.  LE does not want his phone number or to be burdened in contacting him.

One thing is for sure ... LE knows the child is safe and being cared for by the Dad.  There is a very good chance LE knows and others may soon come to know which parent is creating the turmoil and is trying to suck or manipulate everybody into her circus or reacting to her.

There's a good reason the exhanges are at the police station to begin with.

ocean

The exchange is down the road from mother house not at police station. We all told him to get the changed but I dont think it happened yet.

Davy

The exchanges take place at the police station down the road from the mother's house .... according to NYParent's post.

I adamantly disagree with involving LE in domestic situations and consider that very poor advice.  For example, it is much better to retain a respected para professional unbiased third party (ie off duty officer) to monitor/record/report (via affidavitt).  Hope you get the idea. 

Mommy dearest may be on her best behavior at a police station and the whole idea (particularly in this interstate matter) is to reveal her true demeanor.

Let's play "What IF".  What if LE were requested to monitor 50 exchanges on Friday and Sunday evenings ???   

NYParent

UPDATE:  Well I am happy to say that I just came back from spending a wonderful 10 days with my DD.  It was great to see her and spend some time with her.  She is amazing!  All my other visits have been 2 days, so this is he longest I have spent with her since her mom took her to TX.

Here's how it went.  I picked up DD at the police station.  At that time I attempted to hand deliver drop off information to mom (stating that she should be there promptly on time otherwise I would not be available for another exchange until XX date).  BM refused to take the letter.  I mailed it overnight to her which because of the holidays she got on the date of the drop-off. 

Date of drop off came, I was at the police station at the court ordered time, of course no BM.  I waited 40 minutes.  Spoke to police officer explained the situation.  He DID NOT want to give me an actual report.  Only gave me a sheet of paper which showed that he logged into his system that I was making a complaint about BM not being there on time.  Sent BM a text saying it's XX time I am leaving as stated in my letter I will be available to child return again on XX date.

Two days later (morning time) I get calls from various people in my family stating that BM is going crazy calling them saying that I kidnapped DD and that the police was going to arrest me.  Not ONE single call from her or text message directly to me.  I kept my cell phone on the entire time in the event she called.  As soon as I got off the phone with them I called BM, she did not pick up the call.  Sent her a text message at around 8:30 am stating that she has received all the info and that she should stop harassing my family.  Stated that if she wanted to pick up DD before I was able to meet within her area, she was welcome to do so at XX time at XX police station (5 hour drive for her).  Wrote a letter and sent it to her overnight giving her all the information of which police station she could pick DD up at if she chose to and reiterating the fact that if she did not have DD on the court ordered return was because she didn't show up for pick-up or contacted me to state that she was going to be late and to wait for her.  Sent it to her at about 1PM.

At 4 PM I am driving and missed a call.  Number I wasn't familiar with.  Listen to the voicemail and it was a police officer stating that BM was at the station and that I should call back within the next minutes to avoid having charges pressed against me and the issuance of an arrest warrant for child kidnapping.  Called him back.  We went back and forth for about 30 minutes.  I stated he had no right not threaten me with an arrest and that I did not kidnap the child as I was still in TX (he was saying that I was in NY).  Told him that BM was giving information on where she could pick up child.....he started yelling at me saying that I was being unfair about expecting BM to drive 10 hours round-trip to pick up DD and that I was not meeting her half way.  I reminded him that I came from NY, so I was meeting her more than half way.  Told him she had her options and she or he could call me back when they made their choice and hung up.  He then called me back with a different attitude, now he was friendly and on my side saying that he understood my situation, but that BM was really upset and crying and he's just trying to help and that he was out of line by threating to arrest me when I hadn't broken any laws.....that all BM wanted was to have DD before New Year's since she missed X-mas with her.....I told him that if she wanted her so bad then she shouldn't have a problem picking her up, told him once again that he should only call me back once she has made the decision (hung up on him again).  He called me back 10 minutes later stating that BM agreed to pick child up on the date I was available to drop DD off by her station.

This gave me an extra 4 days with DD :)  Dropped her off at the date agreed.  BM was an hour early and there with her family.  Everyone really upset and unfriendly (which personally doesn't matter to me).  Said my goodbyes to DD (she cried and didn't want to let go of me, of course that doesn't mean anything to BM).

Now I just get stuff from the courts that she filed about me kidnapping the child and stating that the location of where the child was was being concealed from her.  My attorney said that because the child was return the judge wasn't going to do anything.  Of course the funny thing is she filed all this stuff the day AFTER speaking to the police office and her agreeing to XX date for drop off.  They asked for an emergency hearing regarding this which is scheduled for this week and to start the hearing on the modification.  My attorney is going to ask for a continuance since I am not able to fly to TX in such sort notice especially when I was JUST there.  I'll update the outcome later.

MixedBag


Kitty C.

WOW, NYP!!!!!!!  You did GREAT!  I hope you got a LOT of pics/video of you and your DD and I know you have a lot of great moments to hang on to!  I also hope you got the name of that police officer you had all the phone conversations with........he might be very useful if you need him in court.

Kidnapping??  What a hoot!  I suppose the BM would get highly PO'd if you appeared by phone, too......you think?  Something to ask your atty. in TX about........
Handle every stressful situation like a dog........if you can't play with it or eat it, pee on it and walk away.......

Davy

#22
Of course there is absolutely nothing to justify an emergency or rushing a modification hearing.

After not complying with the original NY jurisdiction even a casual observer can determine she is manipulating the entire judicial process to gain favorable rulings in her expectant bias and prejudical forum.   

I hope you notify the NY judge of what she has promoted and that you give serious consideration to entering the Federal system (PKPA).

Great job politely and intellingly taking a stand and respectfully handling the police.  Seems you CYA but I would brush up on the Custodial Interference criminal statues (this site) if you haven't already. Child may not have to be removed from the state under those statues.

This BM theatrics and history are harming your child and the best thing that could happen to stop her BS is for a judge to reprimand her (and family) biligerent, obnoxious  manipulating behaviors.

I suspect your presence will be pleasing to a TX judge especially when you let him know the great time ya'll had touring his great state but you're sorry you had to miss the Fat Stock Show.
   
Again ... good job COWBOY !!!!!!   Did you make it to Texas stadium ??

NYParent

Oh yeah....his name and badge number were the first things I got when I called him back.  I finally got the affidavit and their motion....it's full of crap.  They're trying to say that I am in contempt because I didn't give the mother a month's advance notice regarding this "vacation", that I didn't give her an address where the child would be staying, and that I did not give her a phone number where the child would be.  Except that when I wrote the letter to her I told her that if she didn't pick her up it would be considered visitation and that I would be staying in the the state of TX.  Under the visitation portion of the CO it states that I am to stay in a hotel in the state of TX.  It does not state that I am required to give her address or phone number.  That's only under the vacation portion of it.

My attorney told me that they cannot move with the hearing of contempt because I was served incorrectly and not within the timeframe (I was given 3 days notice and I wasn't served personally only through attorney on file). 

I decided to retain another attorney though.  So I had my attorney file a motion to withdraw as counsel.  I don't think he's aggresive enough to handle her attorney.  Whenever I told him what I wanted, he got very sensitive and took it personal if we didn't agree.....I can't work with someone like that.....so I am looking for someone else to deal with the modification portion of it. 

If anyone knows a good attorney in the DFW area, please let me know.  It has not be someone affordable too, I mean I have already retained two attorneys thus far and I see how expensive it gets quickly.  I loved my attorney in NY....aggressive and let me be as involved as I wanted in order to keep cost down.  This other attorney I was working with in TX didn't want me to do anything (not even write my own affidavits).  I would feel better with a referal than simply finding someone online.

Davy- yes, I got to see many of the major cities in TX. 
Kitty- have a lot of pics and video.....plus memories to last a lifetime.  Like I said before, whatever hassle I am dealing with is worth the extra time I got with DD.